Stop panicking about Apple's rumored switch from Intel to its own chips in the Mac

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  • Reply 141 of 246
    gumbigumbi Posts: 148member
    guck said:
    I'm not a major fan of Apple, I am a Microsoft and Google boy through and through, but if Apple can pioneer the shift from x86 CISC based CPU's to ARM RISC based CPU's, I'm all for it because it would mean it's just a matter of time for Windows to start making the shift too.
    They already have...  There are a couple ARM based laptops on the market right now.  
  • Reply 142 of 246
    RevGregoryRevGregory Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Who's panicking? I had already decided that Apple was making terrible decisions as far as it's computer hardware went and was already looking at the possibility of non-Apple hardware/OS solutions moving forward. I will soon be Apple free for the first time since 1982. Yes, I jumped from the Apple ][ series to Mac. Of course I waited almost 8 years after the introduction of the Mac for the hardware to improve and the software I needed to be available. Yes...I remained an Apple user during the PowerPC years. That was because I was heavily invested in software that I couldn't duplicate elsewhere, not because the sluggish processors and crappy computers kept me there...plus Windows was a pulsating ball of suck. I also transitioned to OS X and then Intel platforms because Apple under Jobs started making sense to me again. I already had a PocketPC phone when the iPhone came out so I wasn't completely dazzled and Jobs "walled garden" philosophy turned me into a dedicated Android user for my phone and pad. Going forward on my laptop and home system? Haven't made any hard decisions but this announcement eliminated Apple from ANY consideration as I don't want to relive the PowerPC days under yet another hapless CEO who is evoking in my mind the dismal days of the Scully/Amelio years. Apple learned that trying to keep up with dedicated processor manufacturers was a fool's gambit once, too bad they seem to think it's a good idea to try it again.
  • Reply 143 of 246
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Soli said:
    wizard69 said:
    I just find it silly that XCode has become part of this discussion.  
    I don't mind it. I think there's an argument to be made that Apple will first keep Xcode to their higher-end machines because of cost/time/difficulty in converting the app as well as keeping developers on higher cost machines. I also think there's an argument to be made that because most developers already develop for ARM-based devices and that it would allow for more developers, especially in schools and less affluent countries with high tariffs for CE imports, that they'd have it ready it go at or near the launch of the first ARM-based Mac. I lean toward the latter, if you weren't sure.
    Well i would lean towards an early XCode port too.  What bothere me is people apparently questioning if XCode could run at all on ARM.   Im just not sure how the question could even come up.  As long as Mac OS is there XCode can run on the platform (given enough RAM).  

    I just find this thread frustrating, people act as if Apples intention is to saddle Macs with a low performance outdated CPU.  This is silly of course when iPad out performs some Macs.    People also act as if Apple cant design processors that go beyond the current A series in capability.  They seem to forget that Apples A series are some of the highest performance ARM cores out there.    That performance is at 5 watts or so.   
    fastasleep
  • Reply 144 of 246
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,505member
    It hasn't been reported that Macs would use A-series processors, just custom processors developed by Apple. They may be entirely new, far more powerful, processes from the A-series processors that power mobile devices, AppleTV and HomePod. 
    Very good point!
  • Reply 145 of 246
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,719member
    Who's panicking? I had already decided that Apple was making terrible decisions as far as it's computer hardware went and was already looking at the possibility of non-Apple hardware/OS solutions moving forward. I will soon be Apple free for the first time since 1982. Yes, I jumped from the Apple ][ series to Mac. Of course I waited almost 8 years after the introduction of the Mac for the hardware to improve and the software I needed to be available. Yes...I remained an Apple user during the PowerPC years. That was because I was heavily invested in software that I couldn't duplicate elsewhere, not because the sluggish processors and crappy computers kept me there...plus Windows was a pulsating ball of suck. I also transitioned to OS X and then Intel platforms because Apple under Jobs started making sense to me again. I already had a PocketPC phone when the iPhone came out so I wasn't completely dazzled and Jobs "walled garden" philosophy turned me into a dedicated Android user for my phone and pad. Going forward on my laptop and home system? Haven't made any hard decisions but this announcement eliminated Apple from ANY consideration as I don't want to relive the PowerPC days under yet another hapless CEO who is evoking in my mind the dismal days of the Scully/Amelio years. Apple learned that trying to keep up with dedicated processor manufacturers was a fool's gambit once, too bad they seem to think it's a good idea to try it again.
    Im a little dissatisfied with Apples Mac division causing me to pick up an HP Envy early this year.  It is hard to knock the gardware performance advantages, at significantky reduced costs.   When Linux is stable on this machine i will likely use that as my primary OS.  

    My anger with Apple isnt 100% though as i will continue to own iPhones and very likely another iPad.  The walled garden on an iPhone actually works for me as it keeps the phone working and secure.  

    Done right though the move to ARM on Mac could be a good thing and might even get me back on the platform.   I just wont rush to any conclusions until this plays out.  

    I do believe your concerns about the Power PC days is misplaced.   The failure there was more team member related than an Apple issue.    Right now Apple has everything they need to drive such a project to success.  This especially includes volume.    A series as is can already power the likes of a Mac Book and even an education specific Mac.  This doesnt even consider A series performance in 2020.  The real catch is whatt Apple will do with a processor designed to operate at higher power levels.  Frankly i dont believe the ARM cores will recieve the majority of Apple engineering attention.  

    The computing world has changed massively since the days of Power Pc or even Intel hardware of that generation.  The cores simpky are not that important these days as all the facilities of the chip play a role in delivering performance.  You cant be looking to the past here.   
  • Reply 146 of 246
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,678member
    It hasn't been reported that Macs would use A-series processors, just custom processors developed by Apple. They may be entirely new, far more powerful, processes from the A-series processors that power mobile devices, AppleTV and HomePod. 
    I'd be very surprised if they even used the A-serie moniker. In the past few years when I made a case for Apple using their own ARM designs in an Mac I got a lot comments about how the A-series chip in the iPad isn't good enough or, more commonly, that it was a stupid idea that will never happen. I'm glad to see that a lot more people are on board with the issue as being feasible, even if many are bitching about virtualizing for their Windows VM.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 147 of 246
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,338administrator
    Who's panicking? 
    You don't get the emails we do :D
    Soli
  • Reply 148 of 246
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,015member
    Who's panicking? 
    You don't get the emails we do :D
    Maybe if headlines read Apple looking to transition away from intel next decade there wouldn’t be panic.
    most headlines are suggesting this has just been drop on us today fully formed. 
  • Reply 149 of 246
    GG1GG1 Posts: 232member
    Soli said:
    It hasn't been reported that Macs would use A-series processors, just custom processors developed by Apple. They may be entirely new, far more powerful, processes from the A-series processors that power mobile devices, AppleTV and HomePod. 
    I'd be very surprised if they even used the A-serie moniker. In the past few years when I made a case for Apple using their own ARM designs in an Mac I got a lot comments about how the A-series chip in the iPad isn't good enough or, more commonly, that it was a stupid idea that will never happen. I'm glad to see that a lot more people are on board with the issue as being feasible, even if many are bitching about virtualizing for their Windows VM.
    I'm surprised by the consternation among some people about this rumor. Unless it's fake consternation.

    But using a new moniker would be appropriate and fully welcome to throw the (fake) consternators off the trail. (Yes, I made consternators up.)
    mattinoz
  • Reply 150 of 246
    ylonylon Posts: 43member
    BS. We don't want this to happen because we want flexibility. I won't get into what that all entails here, but many, many, many of us much deeper and more experienced professionals do not want to see this shift.
    RealZoeSummersHabi_tweet
  • Reply 151 of 246
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,338administrator
    ylon said:
    BS. We don't want this to happen because we want flexibility. I won't get into what that all entails here, but many, many, many of us much deeper and more experienced professionals do not want to see this shift.
    Oh yeah? I'm open to reasoned discussion. Elaborate why, and cite your "many, many, many," please.

    Don't even try "much deeper and more experienced professionals," btw. The AI forum-base has a wide array of skills and talents, and you don't even know the half of mine.

    So, mind your accusations. If you want to participate, feel free. But, wading in like this won't fly.


    edited April 2018 Solifastasleep
  • Reply 152 of 246
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    There is no need to Panic, they're not building an hyperspace offramp... So, we are relatively safe for now ;-).

    And if you feel the need to Panic, just take your little Guide with the "Don't Panic" written in big bold yellow letters and you'll feel AOK after that you may even find out that the answer to EVERYTHING is 42.

    I'm also a bit baffled about the whole gnashing of teeth about IOS / Apple can't do this, that, and other signs of the Apocalypse if Apple switches.
    Come on, seriously, go back to your computer engineering textbooks; you need it bad.

    Most devs work I know are 1/10 of the scale of what me and my team did on terminals connected to Suns's or big irons in the early 1990s.
    Listening to them, I'd expect that I would be spending 99% of my times waiting for builds / testing to finish ;-).

    If losing a few % speed on your computer right now is going to impede your work that much (when most time spent by the computer is being idle), you'd better change your workflow.

    I've been doing dev since the 1980s in all types of machines from PDP's, System360/CMS and Vax/VMS mainframes to Raspberries and the whole thing strikes me as poserdom and whining for whining. 

    Most devs can easily work on an old early 2010s Mac Pro Laptop at almost exact same speed as they'll do it on a new Mac Pro Laptop.
    The laptop is not what stops them from performing or not performing.


    edited April 2018 fastasleep
  • Reply 153 of 246
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,595member
    Soli said:
    nunzy said:
    Will this be a step towards uniting iOS and OSX?
    That would be like uniting watchOS, tvOS, and iOS simply because they're all AArch64. Hell, even iOS for the iPhone and iPad are distinct UIs with different downloads despite  the I/O being almost identical. I don't see any future where iOS and macOS will be "united" into a single crappy OS. They will, however, continue to share code, which they've been doing since iOS was created despite the discrete architectures in play.
    Thank you Soli. 
    SoliRealZoeSummers
  • Reply 154 of 246
    iqatedoiqatedo Posts: 1,595member

    Oztotl said:
    First concern is the ability to run virtual Linux and Windows OS's under the new hardware. This is key to having only a souped up Macbook Pro to support multiple platforms and clients
    I work in a world where Macs rule because of the quality of hardware AND because they run Linux. (Windows is not the issue.) I have ported a Linux application to the Mac but most in my field need Linux. I'll bet that most of these people do too... see all of the little white glowing icons in this picture, most of those will be running Linux.


    Soli
  • Reply 155 of 246
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,678member
    iqatedo said:
    Oztotl said:
    First concern is the ability to run virtual Linux and Windows OS's under the new hardware. This is key to having only a souped up Macbook Pro to support multiple platforms and clients
    I work in a world where Macs rule because of the quality of hardware AND because they run Linux. (Windows is not the issue.) I have ported a Linux application to the Mac but most in my field need Linux. I'll bet that most of these people do too... see all of the little white glowing icons in this picture, most of those will be running Linux.

    [image]
    Do they run natively or in a VM? I know that Bootcamp doesn't support Linux, but I know it's possible to install.
  • Reply 156 of 246
    tyancytyancy Posts: 82member
     Regardless of how many Mac users actually run Windows, the fact that the Mac can do this is a big deal for people who might migrate to the Mac.
    If Apple ditches Intel, it will put up a barrier that will ultimately bad for  the Mac.
    My concern is Apple's ivory tower approach. The company has a very spotty success rate in retaining useful, practical technologies. It tends to focus on the new and shiny and, due to it's aloof mindset, tons of great and useful features have simply been forgotten and then left behind.
    If Apple decides to cut itself off from compatibility with Windows apps, it will hurt the company, in terms of the number and variety of apps available, including those that are key to businesses making decisions to buy Macs.
    Having spent my career in corporate settings, I know how businesses think and I am also very familiar with the complete weirdness and paranoia of the Windows-centric IT people. If Apple leaves Intel iron behind the IT people will loudly proclaim that they will want nothing to do with Macs and, with thousands of businesses out there, it will hurt Mac sales.
    I lived as an adult computer user through the eighties and the nineties. Apple should remember the nineties and learn from the experience of those years. 
    RV8RealZoeSummers
  • Reply 157 of 246
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,539member
    wizard69 said:

    Ive heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.   If this is the case management at Apples Mac division is insane.   
    it's not, actually.
  • Reply 158 of 246
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,539member
    hatomie said:
    I was planning to purchase a new MacBook Pro in June, after the (rumored) announcement of MBP refreshes. Explain to me why I should still do this.
    Because you needed a MacBook Pro for some reason.
    Soli
  • Reply 159 of 246
    I switched to Mac in 2007. In 2012 I bought an iMac with the best gpu on offer and used it for gaming in windows (BootCamp) and macOS for everything else. If the Mac switched from Intel the loss of BootCamp and gaming would be a significant blow, added to the last 6 years of increasingly buggy and very poorly designed Ui/Ux from Apple, means I would seriously start to consider leaving the eco system, or having to now have to computers (double expense, double space) whereas since 2012 I’ve only needed one. That’s not progress... that’s just dumb; but since Steve died, Forstall was fired and Sergei left, Apple has become less. That they have UI designers using tiny fonts in mid grey on a light grey background and tons of empty space is inexcusable.
  • Reply 160 of 246
    Meanwhile, the entire Windows PC world is hyped up about the new 6-core Intel i9 on their laptops with GTX1080M GPUs which are basically skinny, yet powerful, gaming machines. Your move, Apple. Errr. I fear Apple has no answer for that. A-series SoCs are nice but not on all Apple computers. Some of us desktop people want a great deal more.
    Habi_tweet
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