Apple again said to cut HomePod orders on poor sales performance

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 81
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,899member
    x_bot said:
    I held out for a long time but I'm very happy with the purchase.  Excellent sound quality!!  What I find most amazing about the sound quality is how the sound fills the room evenly regardless of where the speaker is placed in the room.  I hear everything. 

    The Siri functionality works well enough for me.

    Besides Music, I use the HomePod as my audio source for my AppleTV.  It's a huge improvement over my TV branded sound bar.  One extremely useful tip for this setup is learning how to switch the AirPlay Audio Source... Switch to the home screen, hold down on the Play/Pause button (appleTV remote).

    I'm looking forward to AP2 and support for multiple HP's.  Regardless, If you want great sound and to really enjoy music again, the HP is a worthwhile investment.
    You probably missed the 25% discount from Ebay. That would bring the HomePod to below $270.
  • Reply 42 of 81
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,010member
    tylersdad said:
    You just have to learn the idiosyncracies of every add-on domain with Alexa. That is similar to abandoned AppleScript, in which you had to learn a specific set of "verbs" as soon as domains were added to AppleScript. AppleScript didn't hold just because of that, people were to lazy to learn a new set of "verbs" every time. This is exactly what Alexa imposes but they are just newcomers. We saw that movie before...
    Are you seriously trying to say that Alexa will not last as a product because of the need to use verbs? 
    Read what he said. 
    Now read it again. 

    He said the problem is that users need to learn a specific set of verbs. What these boxes will eventually do is work out what you want without you having to learn to verbs. If they get it wrong, you should be able to correct them so the get it right next time. Learning verbs isn’t AI; it’s just programming the device with your voice. 
    watto_cobralarrya
  • Reply 43 of 81
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,146member
    Rayz2016 said:
    tylersdad said:
    You just have to learn the idiosyncracies of every add-on domain with Alexa. That is similar to abandoned AppleScript, in which you had to learn a specific set of "verbs" as soon as domains were added to AppleScript. AppleScript didn't hold just because of that, people were to lazy to learn a new set of "verbs" every time. This is exactly what Alexa imposes but they are just newcomers. We saw that movie before...
    Are you seriously trying to say that Alexa will not last as a product because of the need to use verbs? 
    Read what he said. 
    Now read it again. 

    He said the problem is that users need to learn a specific set of verbs. What these boxes will eventually do is work out what you want without you having to learn to verbs. If they get it wrong, you should be able to correct them so the get it right next time. Learning verbs isn’t AI; it’s just programming the device with your voice. 
    Read what he said. 
    Now read it again.

    It's a ridiculous statement to suggest that "a word used to describe an action, state, or occurrence, and forming the main part of the predicate of a sentence" are a stumbling block for communication, when they are at the core of communication. Try having a conversation where you don't use verbs. Hell, even, in comical "caveman" speech the verb is always present. Telling a a digital service to play, set, record, or any other simple action is not complicated as we do it every… day… in… every… conversation.
    edited April 12 tylersdad
  • Reply 44 of 81
    cropr said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!


    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    The market fit is phenomenal.   What the HomePod is supposed to do is be the multiroom audio controller for 
    a wide variety of vendor products.  As of now the system with the most vendor support is DTS Play-fi and it's 
    software is some of the weakest out there but it's nice to have a choice of hardware.  

    The HomePods value increases sharply when we understand how many existing products can be upgrade to Airplay 2 and 
    how the benefits of audio support in HomeKit play out.   Right now it's hard to see the  value over a more mature platform 
    like Sonos. 
    How can a very expensive family device have a decent value if half of my family cannot use it because they have chosen to use Android phones and if it has a very crappy voice assistant?
    Are we new to Apple’s walled garden ecosystem?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 81
    karmadavekarmadave Posts: 291member
    The speaker quality, of AirPod, can't compensate for the deficiencies in Siri. Apple will eventually get it right, but in the meantime Amazon-powered speakers will have wider appeal. It have a Sonos Playbase which I really like...
  • Reply 46 of 81
    I would buy two of them or maybe three if you could use voice commands to tell the home pods to play any songs in your main computer's iTunes library. Alas that only works if you pay a monthly subscription to Apple Music. No thanks Apple.
    iTunes match is only $24/year, and that allows you to listen to your entire library. For me it's well worth it.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 81
    clarker99 said:
    Soli said:
    I see no nail in a coffin for HomePod at this point, but Apple is going to have to fix whatever internal issues they're having with their Siri team(s) if they want to compete with the major players.
    What do we want Siri to be? Apple’s version of a voice asst is going to be different to Amazon/Google. Amazon needs Alexa to sell more products. Google? They need to surveillance you and mine your data to sell it to make money. Having a voice asst in people’s homes is vital to the future of both companies. 

    I have never got the sense that Siri was supposed to be a money making tool for Apple. So, there approach will be different. Esp with security and privacy a top priority.

    Idk, I think we are way to early in the voice revolution to be saying Apple are doomed. When reading objective reviews you get people saying that all voice asst’s are flaky. Yes, alexa and google are better but still have plenty of flaws.
    I'd like Siri to be decently competent at the basic functionality that was promised at its launch over 6 years ago. Then we can get existential about what Siri should be.

    Security and privacy are such pathetic excuses for siri's numerous and persistent failings, including lack of basic functionality.

    And no, Apple is nowhere close to being doomed, but it's not a great sign that Apple, and siri apologists, could have their head in the sand for over 6 YEARS regarding a key feature, and increasingly essential component of the Apple ecosystem.

    FWIW, I have a homepod, love the hardware, plan to get more in the future, despite the fact that siri is fucking terrible, and that I cringe every time I try any new siri querry/command.
    edited April 12 Soli
  • Reply 48 of 81
    The market fit is phenomenal.   What the HomePod is supposed to do is be the multiroom audio controller for 
    a wide variety of vendor products.  As of now the system with the most vendor support is DTS Play-fi and it's 
    software is some of the weakest out there but it's nice to have a choice of hardware.  

    The HomePods value increases sharply when we understand how many existing products can be upgrade to Airplay 2 and 
    how the benefits of audio support in HomeKit play out.   Right now it's hard to see the  value over a more mature platform 
    like Sonos. 
    This!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 81
    clarker99 said:
    Soli said:
    I see no nail in a coffin for HomePod at this point, but Apple is going to have to fix whatever internal issues they're having with their Siri team(s) if they want to compete with the major players.
    What do we want Siri to be? Apple’s version of a voice asst is going to be different to Amazon/Google. Amazon needs Alexa to sell more products. Google? They need to surveillance you and mine your data to sell it to make money. Having a voice asst in people’s homes is vital to the future of both companies. 

    I have never got the sense that Siri was supposed to be a money making tool for Apple. So, there approach will be different. Esp with security and privacy a top priority.

    Idk, I think we are way to early in the voice revolution to be saying Apple are doomed. When reading objective reviews you get people saying that all voice asst’s are flaky. Yes, alexa and google are better but still have plenty of flaws.
    I'd like Siri to be decently competent at the basic functionality that was promised at its launch over 6 years ago. Then we can get existential about what Siri should be.

    Security and privacy are such pathetic excuses for siri's numerous and persistent failings, including lack of basic functionality.

    And no, Apple is nowhere close to being doomed, but it's not a great sign that Apple, and siri apologists, could have their head in the sand for over 6 YEARS regarding a key feature, and increasingly essential component of the Apple ecosystem.

    FWIW, I have a homepod, love the hardware, plan to get more in the future, despite the fact that siri is fucking terrible, and that I cringe every time I try any new siri querry/command.
     Security and privacy are legit concerns but It doesnt make sense that you cant set multiple timers or that Siri is different on each Apple device.

    I am guessing selling 200+ iPhones a year has not helped Apple focus on Siri (mac mini or mac pro etc).

    Personally, I dont have the day-to-day gripes with siri on the homepod that I do on the phone/mac/watch.

    I guess I just dont understand what the general public are expecting from Siri or Alexa or Google? I have zero problems playing music, controlling homekit, checking weather, checking travel time to work, doing math, setting a timer and sending messages.

    Now I dont use Spotify or 3rd party apps or ask trivia questions via siri. I do wish that I could say to my HomePod ‘Hey Siri, play Star Wars: The Last Jedi on my Apple TV’ or ‘Hey siri, switch Living Room Apple TV to play through HomePod’.  Ordering a pizza or a Lyft or making a restaurant reservation via Siri would be great.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 81
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,105member

    eightzero said:
    bill42 said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!
    Apparently, a fairly small number of people who actually bought one.

    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    I would buy two of them or maybe three if you could use voice commands to tell the home pods to play any songs in your main computer's iTunes library. Alas that only works if you pay a monthly subscription to Apple Music. No thanks Apple.
    I'm not sure, but I think you can do this if you buy the $25/yr iTunes Match service. Seems odd to need to do this.

    The subscription fee is the backbreaker for me. I hate those. I'd be interested if you could do what you say without the match subscription. Fairly, it isn't that $25 is outrageous - it is sort of the principle. 
    The reason for the $25 fee isn't for the voice commands, it's for the source of the stream -- hosting it on the cloud. If your local iTunes computer is powered down, your requests would fail and there's no music. With a Match subscription your entire music library is in iCloud Music Library, giving the HP access to it at any time. 

    Are you saying you expect Apple to host everyone's entire multi-gigabyte libraries in the cloud for free? Or are you saying you'd prefer HP to stream it from your Mac and be unable to playback if it's sleeping/off?
    I'm saying I would be inclined to consider buying an Apple device to stream from my local storage, with full support, for no subscription fee. If it is off, fine. I accept I can't use my devices when they are powered off.

    I did not say what you imply.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 51 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,721member
    eightzero said:
    bill42 said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!
    Apparently, a fairly small number of people who actually bought one.

    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    I would buy two of them or maybe three if you could use voice commands to tell the home pods to play any songs in your main computer's iTunes library. Alas that only works if you pay a monthly subscription to Apple Music. No thanks Apple.
    I'm not sure, but I think you can do this if you buy the $25/yr iTunes Match service. Seems odd to need to do this.

    The subscription fee is the backbreaker for me. I hate those. I'd be interested if you could do what you say without the match subscription. Fairly, it isn't that $25 is outrageous - it is sort of the principle. 
    You can do it with either. You don't want to pay for Apple Music or iTunes Match? Then tough shit, you don't get to use any of those services' features! Why you'd complain about this when subscribing to neither means you have to AirPlay from the Mac/device that has your iTunes Library on it is beyond me. 

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204146

    "If you have an Apple Music membership, you get all of the benefits of iTunes Match, plus access to the entire Apple Music catalog. You can also get a Family Membership to share the catalog with your family members. Learn more about joining Apple Music."
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,721member
    cropr said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!


    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    The market fit is phenomenal.   What the HomePod is supposed to do is be the multiroom audio controller for 
    a wide variety of vendor products.  As of now the system with the most vendor support is DTS Play-fi and it's 
    software is some of the weakest out there but it's nice to have a choice of hardware.  

    The HomePods value increases sharply when we understand how many existing products can be upgrade to Airplay 2 and 
    how the benefits of audio support in HomeKit play out.   Right now it's hard to see the  value over a more mature platform 
    like Sonos. 
    How can a very expensive family device have a decent value if half of my family cannot use it because they have chosen to use Android phones and if it has a very crappy voice assistant?
    It only works with one Apple ID for non-music tasks at this point so that doesn't really matter, does it?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,721member

    The lesson should have been learned from the iPod HiFi. The HomePod is a premium priced speaker that plays 256kbps compressed music. If Apple Music had lossless audio, then I would consider buying one.
    No, it's a speaker that plays: HE-AAC (V1), AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Apple Lossless, AIFF, WAV, and FLAC ... However I believe lossless will require AirPlay 2 to be streamed without transcoding.

    As far as Apple Music, they don't even sell ALAC tracks in the iTunes Store so not sure why you'd expect it on Apple Music. I assume you're going to need to be playing lossless files locally for a while.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,721member
    eightzero said:

    eightzero said:
    bill42 said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!
    Apparently, a fairly small number of people who actually bought one.

    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    I would buy two of them or maybe three if you could use voice commands to tell the home pods to play any songs in your main computer's iTunes library. Alas that only works if you pay a monthly subscription to Apple Music. No thanks Apple.
    I'm not sure, but I think you can do this if you buy the $25/yr iTunes Match service. Seems odd to need to do this.

    The subscription fee is the backbreaker for me. I hate those. I'd be interested if you could do what you say without the match subscription. Fairly, it isn't that $25 is outrageous - it is sort of the principle. 
    The reason for the $25 fee isn't for the voice commands, it's for the source of the stream -- hosting it on the cloud. If your local iTunes computer is powered down, your requests would fail and there's no music. With a Match subscription your entire music library is in iCloud Music Library, giving the HP access to it at any time. 

    Are you saying you expect Apple to host everyone's entire multi-gigabyte libraries in the cloud for free? Or are you saying you'd prefer HP to stream it from your Mac and be unable to playback if it's sleeping/off?
    I'm saying I would be inclined to consider buying an Apple device to stream from my local storage, with full support, for no subscription fee. If it is off, fine. I accept I can't use my devices when they are powered off.

    I did not say what you imply.

    You can do this already.

    • You can stream to HomePod directly from your Mac or iOS device
    • You can use Remote on your iPhone or iPad to control your iTunes library playback on your Mac, streaming to HomePod
    • You can't use Siri on the HomePod to control your local Library, as it's tied to Apple Music/Match by design
    propodwatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 81
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,105member
    eightzero said:
    bill42 said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!
    Apparently, a fairly small number of people who actually bought one.

    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    I would buy two of them or maybe three if you could use voice commands to tell the home pods to play any songs in your main computer's iTunes library. Alas that only works if you pay a monthly subscription to Apple Music. No thanks Apple.
    I'm not sure, but I think you can do this if you buy the $25/yr iTunes Match service. Seems odd to need to do this.

    The subscription fee is the backbreaker for me. I hate those. I'd be interested if you could do what you say without the match subscription. Fairly, it isn't that $25 is outrageous - it is sort of the principle. 
    You can do it with either. You don't want to pay for Apple Music or iTunes Match? Then tough shit, you don't get to use any of those services' features! Why you'd complain about this when subscribing to neither means you have to AirPlay from the Mac/device that has your iTunes Library on it is beyond me. 

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204146

    "If you have an Apple Music membership, you get all of the benefits of iTunes Match, plus access to the entire Apple Music catalog. You can also get a Family Membership to share the catalog with your family members. Learn more about joining Apple Music."
    Yes, and tough shit I don’t get full utility out of HomePod. No Siri, no nice speaker. Can I get airplay to do this? Sure. Meaning I don’t need HomePod. Exactly my point.
    larrya
  • Reply 56 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,721member
    eightzero said:
    eightzero said:
    bill42 said:
    SendMcjak said:
    zone said:
    ... If this was not an Apple product people would be saying how great it is!
    Apparently, a fairly small number of people who actually bought one.

    HomePod is a well-engineered product with fairly poor market fit + a terrible launch strategy.
    I would buy two of them or maybe three if you could use voice commands to tell the home pods to play any songs in your main computer's iTunes library. Alas that only works if you pay a monthly subscription to Apple Music. No thanks Apple.
    I'm not sure, but I think you can do this if you buy the $25/yr iTunes Match service. Seems odd to need to do this.

    The subscription fee is the backbreaker for me. I hate those. I'd be interested if you could do what you say without the match subscription. Fairly, it isn't that $25 is outrageous - it is sort of the principle. 
    You can do it with either. You don't want to pay for Apple Music or iTunes Match? Then tough shit, you don't get to use any of those services' features! Why you'd complain about this when subscribing to neither means you have to AirPlay from the Mac/device that has your iTunes Library on it is beyond me. 

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204146

    "If you have an Apple Music membership, you get all of the benefits of iTunes Match, plus access to the entire Apple Music catalog. You can also get a Family Membership to share the catalog with your family members. Learn more about joining Apple Music."
    Yes, and tough shit I don’t get full utility out of HomePod. No Siri, no nice speaker. Can I get airplay to do this? Sure. Meaning I don’t need HomePod. Exactly my point.
    Pretty much. You can still use Siri, just not to control your music library. If you don't care about that, and have no interest in paying a paltry $2/mo for Match or $10/mo for Music, or it as a quality AirPlay speaker, then this is obviously not targeted at you in any way since those features as a whole are its "full utility" not some imaginary feature you wish it had.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 81
    I am sure the sound quality is awesome. The problem is it looks like a ball of yarn. 
  • Reply 58 of 81
    The lesson should have been learned from the iPod HiFi. The HomePod is a premium priced speaker that plays 256kbps compressed music. If Apple Music had lossless audio, then I would consider buying one.
    Seriously? We're talking about a tiny, budget-priced, wireless speaker. Do you really believe that feeding it PCM will sound any better than 256k AAC, or do you think the much more significant limitations of a device like this will completely swamp the subtle effects of data compression?
  • Reply 59 of 81
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 800member
    If I can afford to spend $349 for a HomePod, I can afford $24.99 for iTunes Match and $9.99 a month for Apple Music.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 81
    thrang said:
    [...] voice control is, regardless of who's solution, vastly overrated right now in terms of importance.
    How have you come to the conclusion that voice control is overrated? How exactly would you operate a HomePod without it?

    Voice is the primary control interface of the HomePod. It's arguably the most significant feature. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but your comment sounds like the equivalent of saying steering wheels are an overrated automotive feature.
    fastasleep
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