$1 billion Apple data center project in Athenry, Ireland cancelled

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 48
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,146moderator
    adm1 said:
    This Daly guy sounds so familiar to a few local to me in Scotland too. Not native, no family here, yet they move in and dictate to everyone about whats in the country's best interests…
    And, of course, it’s bigotry to say anything about it.
    wood1208 said:
    every country have to participate truthfully in an effort against green house gases
    Nah, I’m not fighting fake problems.
    So,who ever this Allan Daly needs to fight for human population population.
    Feel free to lead by example. Guns are widely available, after all.
    What nonsense. It’s not bigotry — a citizen is a citizen. A citizen doesn’t need to be native or have family roots in order to advocate for policy the citizen desires in his democracy. 

    The greenhouse effect is neither fake nor complicated. Increased gases like carbon dioxide that absorb infrared radiation make it harder for the IR energy to leave the earth’s atmosphere and go back into space. It’s simple physics.

    I wonder what the climate-change deniers think all that CO2 is doing. I guess they figure it's not doing anything to warm the atmosphere, despite the most basic of scientific observations that suggests it is. How do these folks make their dinner each night, not recognizing the principals behind the functioning of their convection or microwave ovens? How do they see their way at night, not recognizing the flow of current in an electrical conductor to energize a lamp? How indeed do they stay alive not recognizing the cycle of respiration their body uses to keep itself going?  If they trust all these scientific principals and truths, at what point do they allow themselves the special knowledge required to understand our planet's biosphere better than those same scientists who bring us much of the scientific knowledge we accept in our everyday lives?

    StrangeDaysroundaboutnow
  • Reply 42 of 48
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Maybe we have been a bit lucky, and discovered the industrial revolution at just the point in history when the planet was a little carbon starved (by historical standards) anyway. Take it away Elon Musk...

    And maybe pollution was never a life changing problem that required us to re-jig our whole society, but rather a temporary side effect of one generation of technology (the 1800s-1900s stuff) which is rapidly becoming obsolete anyway thanks to people like him.
  • Reply 43 of 48
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,019member
    maestro64 said:
    spice-boy said:
    It's amazing how a single person can hold up progress.  He'll be shutting down the looms in Nottingham next, a la Ned Lud.

    This would have been a benefit to the Irish economy, and provide valuable high tech jobs - attracting other such roles to the area, as Apple does lead the way on this in Ireland.  I don't understand the argument about the strain on the grid, and greenhouse gases... it'll get built somewhere else, AND Apple, of all company, is literally the best at using green energy.  

    I wonder if he'll win against Amazon too?
    Mr Allan Daly sounds like my kind of guy. Governments local and national all to easily cave to corporations and their promise of "great jobs" while not addressing the negative impact a development on this scale can have on the local environment or social and cultural impact. 

    I live in Manhattan and my neighborhood is the larget of the city government and a series of hight tech companies looking for a foothold in New York City. I and my neighbors lives will radically change if this happens. Rents will soar, our over stressed public transport system will get even worse, small businesses will be forced out to be replaced with more corporate stores and restaurants and the very make up of my neighborhood will become unrecognizable. Big business brings big change and it is not all good and seldom is the local workforce tapped for these jobs which demand importing higher skilled workers from other cities, states and countries. 
    The people of Ireland and every other place has the right to stand up to Apple and the other Goliaths of the corporate world. 
    Not that I disagree with your points, however, no one is offering a better solution, people need jobs, those jobs generate tax revenue for governments so they can provide services. Small companies are not as efficient with resources, bigger companies can do more with less. If you have lots of smaller companies that means things will be more spread out thus more strain on existing resources. Also trying to get a bunch of small companies to do things which benefit everyone is a lot harder.

    These problems are not simple, but you have to get out of the mode of you were here first mentality.
    Most people are under the illusion that economic growth can only come from large companies while it is small businesses which create the most jobs in the US. The expansion of Walmart proved my point. My home town which has a Main Street, and smaller shopping centers on the edges of town was filled with small family run businesses. City hall took the approach of courting a big company to bring more jobs to the city so they make a deal with Walmart to open a store there. Within a few years local businesses started to close. People who had full time employment working for small businesses now could only get low wage part time work at Walmart. Walmart packed up and moved when the contact and tax abatments expired and moved to the next "sucker" city to repeat their "success". 

    Amazon and it's distribution centers are the Walmart of this time. As I mentioned earlier the poor city which is selected to get Amazon 2 will not know what hit it in a few year. 
    This is from the Washington Post: 

    Seattle and surrounding King County declared a state of emergency over homelessness in 2015, but since then, cost-of-living pressures have worsened. The number of homeless students in the city’s public schools has tripled, to nearly 4,300 last school year, and an estimated 23,000 Seattle households are at risk because more than half of their incomes go toward housing costs.

    For the past year and a half, home prices have risen faster there than anywhere else in the country. The median price for a house is now $777,000. 

    How much to attribute the problem to the growth of Amazon, Microsoft, Google and other tech firms that have transformed the city from a sleepy Northwest outpost to a booming extension of Silicon Valley is a matter of sharp disagreement.

    edited May 2018 gatorguy
  • Reply 44 of 48
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,019member
    ascii said:
    Maybe we have been a bit lucky, and discovered the industrial revolution at just the point in history when the planet was a little carbon starved (by historical standards) anyway. Take it away Elon Musk...

    And maybe pollution was never a life changing problem that required us to re-jig our whole society, but rather a temporary side effect of one generation of technology (the 1800s-1900s stuff) which is rapidly becoming obsolete anyway thanks to people like him.
    It will always remain a problem as long as we don't cut down on materials and re-use and recycle. Just because industry has left the place like the USA it still exist and it exist in place with weak to non-existing environmental regulations. South Asia is has factories dumping waste into to water systems, birth defects in the local population is skyrocketing, just because you can't see it or feel it where you live it does not mean it is gone. If you believe the Earth is round then you have to believe it will eventually make it's was to you home the way the floating plastic Pacific continent will be coming to shore on the US west coast someday. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 45 of 48
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,778member
    StrangeDays said:
    …a citizen is a citizen.
    Aha, but what happens if it isn’t?
    A citizen doesn’t need to be native or have family roots…
    Then… not a citizen. 
    What is this nonsense? A citizen needn’t be native nor have roots to become a legal citizen. And is still an equal citizen to your esteemed lineage. How do you not get that?

    No one mentioned non-citizens except you, which is misdirection since we were discussing your silly suggestion that a citizen needed to be native or have family roots in his or her country of citizenship. 
  • Reply 46 of 48
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,337member
    StrangeDays said:
    …a citizen is a citizen.
    Aha, but what happens if it isn’t?
    A citizen doesn’t need to be native or have family roots…
    Then… not a citizen. 
    What is this nonsense? A citizen needn’t be native nor have roots to become a legal citizen. And is still an equal citizen to your esteemed lineage. How do you not get that?

    No one mentioned non-citizens except you, which is misdirection since we were discussing your silly suggestion that a citizen needed to be native or have family roots in his or her country of citizenship. 
    And yet he doesn't understand why someone would think he's a racist and bigot when he makes xenophobic statements. 🤦‍♂️
    roundaboutnow
  • Reply 47 of 48
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,040member
    It's amazing how a single person can hold up progress.  He'll be shutting down the looms in Nottingham next, a la Ned Lud.

    This would have been a benefit to the Irish economy, and provide valuable high tech jobs - attracting other such roles to the area, as Apple does lead the way on this in Ireland.  I don't understand the argument about the strain on the grid, and greenhouse gases... it'll get built somewhere else, AND Apple, of all company, is literally the best at using green energy.  

    I wonder if he'll win against Amazon too?
    Data centers need very few employees. That Apple one might have employed fewer than a hundred including the janitorial folks if they're staffed like the others, so they aren't significant employment drivers. I don't think there were any additional plans for nearby energy infrastructure to support it either, it was just tying into the national grid AFAIK so it wasn't driving any other energy plant construction around it. Yeah there would have been a lot of short-term jobs building the data centre itself tho. 
    Sure, but Apple would still probably pay taxes on the property, buy more electricity from the grid (which is taxed as well) and use a territory no one would use anyway. 
    Additional money to the economy of the region. Jobs is just one part of "revenue" stream for the area...
  • Reply 48 of 48
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    radarthekat said:
    I wonder what the climate-change deniers think all that CO2 is doing. I guess they figure it's not doing anything to warm the atmosphere, despite the most basic of scientific observations that suggests it is.
    We’ve proven that it isn’t. I’m sure you saw the posts. I’m 90% sure there’s a set in a thread that wasn’t wiped in the PO purge. Warming due to CO2 increases decrease asymptotically. Never mind that the world has cooled since the 1880s.
    If they trust all these scientific principals and truths
    We do. You don’t. You trust people. You trust that people would never lie to you to suit an agenda. I could talk about specific heat of gasses or the fact that you have no idea what the greenhouse effect is or even just repost those posts of mine again that show every single claim made by the AGW crowd has been proven false. Would it even matter? Or were the KGB’s efforts truly as effective as they thought?

    Here’s the problem. You’re looking at it from the marxist point of view. You’re putting the cart before the horse. Not you, personally, because you haven’t done any research on the topic and are simply going along with what you’ve been told is “true”, but ‘you’ as in ‘the people who came up with this shit in the first place.’ No thought was given to empiricism. “We want the world to become like this. How do we get there?” That’s the basis for this. Reality doesn’t matter (because feelings are hurt by it). Facts don’t matter (they don’t exist, after all; everything is relative). “How do we get from here to where we want to be, without regard for anything else?” That’s the basis of this. Its creators have admitted it.
    the special knowledge
    Stop behaving as though you’re dumber than anyone else. You’re not. Where did you get this idea? So many people think they can’t understand the simplest things. This had to have been indoctrinated, because normally your ego overrides when you’re told you’re “just too stupid” to learn something and you go learn it anyway. There is no “special knowledge.” There is nothing you can’t understand. I suppose you’re going to pretend that no one in government could ever be wrong, because they have the “special knowledge” to govern that we mere mortals don’t. Don’t question government officials; they surely know more than you! Isn’t that right? Look up the Gell-Man Amnesia Effect.
    those same scientists
    Appeal to authority, appeal to popularity, genetic fallacy. The world has cooled. It doesn’t matter if the United Nations declares that it hasn’t. It doesn’t matter if Congress makes it illegal to say so (like some European countries want to do). Look at the temperature readings. CO2 has done nothing but begin the regreening of the Sahara and Sahel. A 0.0001 mole fraction increase of CO2 does not do a goddamn thing to temperature.

    EDIT: Ah, found one. I don’t know how to direct-link Quiller posts, so it’s post #45 and #47 on this page.
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