Flaws in Apple's iMac Pro VESA mount fueling new episode of repair anxiety [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 53
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,711member
    eightzero said:
    lkrupp said:
    Well, Dell was always treated to outrage and condemnation by disgruntled users making the same claims of crapitude as this. Dell haters abound. HP haters abound. ASUS haters abound. Apple haters abound. Samsung haters abound. As the author says, Apple is now one of the big boys and the shear number of devices out there invites this kind of scrutiny. But Apple is a special case. The entire Internet is on a mission to take Apple down so these kinds of things get amplified to infinity. Here is this ONE GUY with a beef and the whole Internet piles on. This story is ablaze on ALL the Apple sites, fan sites as well as hater sites. One frick’n guy with one frick’n problem that was eventually resolved to his satisfaction and suddenly Apple is the source of all evil in the universe. Another day, another frick’n “Kill Apple” rampage.
    "Don't hold your iMac that way."

    Seems oddly familiar....can't quite place it...
    What don’t you get about ONE GUY WITH A BEEF ON THE INTERNET? You comment is dumb.
  • Reply 42 of 53
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,711member
    Okay, so I watched this guy’s tirade on YouTube and right next to it was another video by well known Apple journalist Jason Snell showing how to install the iMac Pro VESA mount kit. I’d like to know if Snell has tried to remove the mount kit too and what his experience was. Even he didn’t have any problems the Internet will insist that ALL the kits are defective, that Apple knew it, and it couldn’t possibly been a bad batch of screws, it was intentional because they wanted to get more money out of iMac Pro users, ha ha ha. Poor stupid iSheeple.That’s how we work these days with companies, politicians, celebrities, et al. If the Internet condemns you it’s all over. 

    I hope AppleInsider has a contact for Jason Snell and asks him if he tried to remove the kit.
    randominternetpersonStrangeDays
  • Reply 43 of 53
    boboliciousbobolicious Posts: 489member
    Since Jobs passed the mac has felt like an incremental frog boiling gravy train

    Please stop with this if Steve were here shit
    Did I suggest what Steve Jobs would do if he were here?

    His passing marks what seems a turning point in Apple hardware evolution to me, including dropping user iMac VESA interchangability... Other less popular aspects like the demise of X-grid, the 17" mbp, a pro computer that could not be easily upgraded, and now the server... This customer has bought several new pro macs since, and after testing and vetting they have unfortunately been returned.

    I do send feedback in to Apple and have also filed bug reports with occasional resolution...

    Let's hope a robust and user changable VESA option returns to all macs very soon, like native RAID support in Disk First Aid...
  • Reply 44 of 53
    sflocal said:
    So one (1) case of this happening (to an apple-pouty-face video blogger no less) is now cause for "concern", blowing it, an epidemic, etc... Welcome to the internet generation.
    "Pouty-face"?  WTF?  I'm surprised that such a remark is coming from you.

    It's 100% a valid case.  A problem always starts with one person.  If you watched the video, the blogger did state that when he went on an Apple forum, there were other VESA users that experienced similar problems with broken screws.  

    I deal with delicate screws in other areas - my motorcycles use aluminum screws - and it's nerve-racking on how delicate those things are.  This is an area where I think Apple really needs to fess up and own the problem.  The way they treated the customer while his iMP was in the shop also was inexcusable.  
    WTF is wrong with "pouty-face"?  Look at the picture that opens this article (with the giant "UGH").  The guy is clearly making a distressed facial expression.  I would call it grumpy face rather than pouting, but who cares?  
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 45 of 53
    stevehuhstevehuh Posts: 1member
    I used to work as a genius behind an apple store, and I am not surprised by the butchering of your computer, basically nerdy kids with no basic mechanical/engineering skills, managers who are basically a step up from MacDonalds managers running a MacDonalds play pen, and yes overpriced apple products cause it has an apple stamp on it. You have a valid case to be pissed off the whole process was unacceptable, from the wait time, to the shoddy repair unbelievable that they tried to slip it back to you with a sub standard repair.
  • Reply 46 of 53
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,711member
    stevehuh said:
    I used to work as a genius behind an apple store, and I am not surprised by the butchering of your computer, basically nerdy kids with no basic mechanical/engineering skills, managers who are basically a step up from MacDonalds managers running a MacDonalds play pen, and yes overpriced apple products cause it has an apple stamp on it. You have a valid case to be pissed off the whole process was unacceptable, from the wait time, to the shoddy repair unbelievable that they tried to slip it back to you with a sub standard repair.
    In a business course I took a long time ago it was pointed out that in almost all large companies the employees who have direct contact with the customer, the employees that have the most influence over customer satisfaction, the employees that are the public face of the company, those employees are often paid the least amount of money, have the least amount of decision making power, and are the least trained to deal with customer issues. It remains true to this day and I don’t understand why executive teams don't understand that fact.
  • Reply 47 of 53
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 400member
    tmay said:
    These are absolutely not zinc screws.

    They are either alloy steel, with zinc plating or a black oxide coating, or they are stainless steel. If they are magnetic, then they almost certainly alloy steel.

    Personally, I would purchase my own screws; why take a chance?

    https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-socket-head-screws/=1d2ka2h

    Get either a Torx grade 8 or a Torx 18-8 stainless steel, and don't use any thread locker, unless you have a speaker, or woofer adjacent to the computer. Even then, I would avoid it. If you aren't going to use a thread locker, put a little oil, grease, or even better, anti-sieze compound, on the screw threads; to prevent metal galling;

    https://www.fastenal.com/en/72/galling

    Finally, I would hope that the material is at least a 6061-t6 grade of aluminum, rather than a die cast aluminum or zinc alloy.


    Our kit is non-magnetic. A previous post in this thread has magnetic ones. We've updated accordingly.

    Regardless of the material detail, the overall point about the screws and the destruction of the iMac Pro by the Apple Store still applies -- and there are other issues, not the least of which is what we talked about in the last six paragraphs.
    So this means that if you bought a new kit (or a MacBook Pro), it have a chance to be either zinc or steel screws.
  • Reply 48 of 53
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 400member
    macxpress said:
    ...I really feel for this guy...

    I always use (and highly recommend) independent Apple Authorized Dealers for my mac repairs - I can set up a diagnostic appointment in advance, drop a mac off for an hour or two running errands - no wait, and if needed pick it up and keep using it until parts are in - same deal on the actual repair, usually done in half a day - never ever, ever had a problem...

    ...and on mac tech support, enter the last release of macbook pro, with at least 5 Apple reps (including Applecare) all advising that the TB2-TB3 adapter should run a mDP (Apple Cinema) Display, selling me the dongle with the new MBP - ooops, wrong, and no support ever materialized... 'Buy a new monitor' - really?

    Since Jobs passed the mac has felt like an incremental frog boiling gravy train - less upgradable, less repairable, less sustainable, less flexible, and in the end less functional...?

    I can buy a 2TB Micron (Crucial) SSD for $275 (Apple supplied Micron RAM in sevaeral of my machines), while if I look at the upcharges from Apple for the only proprietary (albeit faster) storage offering (from the mini 1TB rotational) the cost seems around $1,475 or more than a 500% cost differential...

    I've abandoned two hardware upgrade cycle attempts because of what I view as increasingly predatory design, and from this lifer thousnds Apple has lost in sales as a result. Thank goodness the Jobs era hardware is so robust & flexible, as it has allowed me to keep the shop running, at least for now...

    Please give us back our Macs... VESA flexibility seems so ubiquitous and basic, like the Kensington lock slot that was been designed out of the Pro, MBP and even the mini, which is frequently used as a server, and small enough to be stolen easily...

    You do know that Steve Jobs was not a fan of upgradable computers right? Please stop with this if Steve were here shit. Its getting really old from you and pissing and whining continuously about the Mac on this forum isn't gonna fix it. You don't know if Steve would have went another way with upgradeable parts. Seeing that Steve didn't like upgradable computers (or the ability for anyone to get inside), I'm willing to bet it would have gone this way anyways. Other computers are also going this way.

    Ever since iPod, the Mac hasn't been a priority. I don't know where all of a sudden people are coming out of the woodwork saying Apple doesn't care about the Mac since Steve left. It was before Steve left. Apparently, people either weren't around Apple during that time, or conveniently forget. 
    I don't know how much care they put into the Mac, but you're making it sounds like "It doesn't matter if it sucks, because we don't care and that's okay".

    If this is their attitude towards Macs, I'd quit immediately and get a Dell with Linux.
    edited May 2018
  • Reply 49 of 53
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,464member
    lkrupp said:
    Okay, so I watched this guy’s tirade on YouTube and right next to it was another video by well known Apple journalist Jason Snell showing how to install the iMac Pro VESA mount kit. I’d like to know if Snell has tried to remove the mount kit too and what his experience was. Even he didn’t have any problems the Internet will insist that ALL the kits are defective, that Apple knew it, and it couldn’t possibly been a bad batch of screws, it was intentional because they wanted to get more money out of iMac Pro users, ha ha ha. Poor stupid iSheeple.That’s how we work these days with companies, politicians, celebrities, et al. If the Internet condemns you it’s all over. 

    I hope AppleInsider has a contact for Jason Snell and asks him if he tried to remove the kit.
    These are the specifications that I lifted from Apple;

    VESA bracket in space gray

    VESA flange

    M4 x 0.7 mm screws

    M2.5 x 0.45 mm screws

    TORX tool

    Access card

    Installation instructions

    A number of people in this thread have commented about the need to lubricate the screws and/or the holes (using a light grease or anti-seize compound) prior to assembly to prevent galling due to the soft material of the connector bracket. I agree with this, and I don't think the the screw quality is the issue. Others have noted as well, that assembly with relatively small screws requires a light touch to prevent overtightening/overtorqueing, and shearing off the heads. 

    After a bit of research, I'd probably go with this if I had to purchase some;

    https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-77134-Nickel-Anti-Seize-Lubricant/dp/B007NJOEAI/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1527843179&sr=1-2&keywords=antisieze+lubricant

    Probably a lifetime supply.

    Note that lubricants actually reduce friction, so the result is that you need less torque on the screw for the same clamping force.

    edited June 2018
  • Reply 50 of 53
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,761member
    DuhSesame said:
    macxpress said:
    ...I really feel for this guy...

    I always use (and highly recommend) independent Apple Authorized Dealers for my mac repairs - I can set up a diagnostic appointment in advance, drop a mac off for an hour or two running errands - no wait, and if needed pick it up and keep using it until parts are in - same deal on the actual repair, usually done in half a day - never ever, ever had a problem...

    ...and on mac tech support, enter the last release of macbook pro, with at least 5 Apple reps (including Applecare) all advising that the TB2-TB3 adapter should run a mDP (Apple Cinema) Display, selling me the dongle with the new MBP - ooops, wrong, and no support ever materialized... 'Buy a new monitor' - really?

    Since Jobs passed the mac has felt like an incremental frog boiling gravy train - less upgradable, less repairable, less sustainable, less flexible, and in the end less functional...?

    I can buy a 2TB Micron (Crucial) SSD for $275 (Apple supplied Micron RAM in sevaeral of my machines), while if I look at the upcharges from Apple for the only proprietary (albeit faster) storage offering (from the mini 1TB rotational) the cost seems around $1,475 or more than a 500% cost differential...

    I've abandoned two hardware upgrade cycle attempts because of what I view as increasingly predatory design, and from this lifer thousnds Apple has lost in sales as a result. Thank goodness the Jobs era hardware is so robust & flexible, as it has allowed me to keep the shop running, at least for now...

    Please give us back our Macs... VESA flexibility seems so ubiquitous and basic, like the Kensington lock slot that was been designed out of the Pro, MBP and even the mini, which is frequently used as a server, and small enough to be stolen easily...

    You do know that Steve Jobs was not a fan of upgradable computers right? Please stop with this if Steve were here shit. Its getting really old from you and pissing and whining continuously about the Mac on this forum isn't gonna fix it. You don't know if Steve would have went another way with upgradeable parts. Seeing that Steve didn't like upgradable computers (or the ability for anyone to get inside), I'm willing to bet it would have gone this way anyways. Other computers are also going this way.

    Ever since iPod, the Mac hasn't been a priority. I don't know where all of a sudden people are coming out of the woodwork saying Apple doesn't care about the Mac since Steve left. It was before Steve left. Apparently, people either weren't around Apple during that time, or conveniently forget. 
    I don't know how much care they put into the Mac, but you're making it sounds like "It doesn't matter if it sucks, because we don't care and that's okay".

    If this is their attitude towards Macs, I'd quit immediately and get a Dell with Linux.
    So because of ONE ISSUE, the iMac Pro sucks? ONE ISSUE! Hell, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say TWO ISSUES. You're a classic example of taking today's version of the internet where everything is exaggerated by 100x and rubbing salt in the wound as if Apple just doesn't care anymore and using that issue as a threat to Apple to go buy a Dell with Linux on it. Go right ahead then...you're not the normal. 
    edited June 2018
  • Reply 51 of 53
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,761member

    Since Jobs passed the mac has felt like an incremental frog boiling gravy train

    Please stop with this if Steve were here shit
    Did I suggest what Steve Jobs would do if he were here?

    His passing marks what seems a turning point in Apple hardware evolution to me, including dropping user iMac VESA interchangability... Other less popular aspects like the demise of X-grid, the 17" mbp, a pro computer that could not be easily upgraded, and now the server... This customer has bought several new pro macs since, and after testing and vetting they have unfortunately been returned.

    I do send feedback in to Apple and have also filed bug reports with occasional resolution...

    Let's hope a robust and user changable VESA option returns to all macs very soon, like native RAID support in Disk First Aid...
    And what would you think if all of this happened anyways? 
  • Reply 52 of 53
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 400member
    macxpress said:
    DuhSesame said:
    macxpress said:
    ...I really feel for this guy...

    I always use (and highly recommend) independent Apple Authorized Dealers for my mac repairs - I can set up a diagnostic appointment in advance, drop a mac off for an hour or two running errands - no wait, and if needed pick it up and keep using it until parts are in - same deal on the actual repair, usually done in half a day - never ever, ever had a problem...

    ...and on mac tech support, enter the last release of macbook pro, with at least 5 Apple reps (including Applecare) all advising that the TB2-TB3 adapter should run a mDP (Apple Cinema) Display, selling me the dongle with the new MBP - ooops, wrong, and no support ever materialized... 'Buy a new monitor' - really?

    Since Jobs passed the mac has felt like an incremental frog boiling gravy train - less upgradable, less repairable, less sustainable, less flexible, and in the end less functional...?

    I can buy a 2TB Micron (Crucial) SSD for $275 (Apple supplied Micron RAM in sevaeral of my machines), while if I look at the upcharges from Apple for the only proprietary (albeit faster) storage offering (from the mini 1TB rotational) the cost seems around $1,475 or more than a 500% cost differential...

    I've abandoned two hardware upgrade cycle attempts because of what I view as increasingly predatory design, and from this lifer thousnds Apple has lost in sales as a result. Thank goodness the Jobs era hardware is so robust & flexible, as it has allowed me to keep the shop running, at least for now...

    Please give us back our Macs... VESA flexibility seems so ubiquitous and basic, like the Kensington lock slot that was been designed out of the Pro, MBP and even the mini, which is frequently used as a server, and small enough to be stolen easily...

    You do know that Steve Jobs was not a fan of upgradable computers right? Please stop with this if Steve were here shit. Its getting really old from you and pissing and whining continuously about the Mac on this forum isn't gonna fix it. You don't know if Steve would have went another way with upgradeable parts. Seeing that Steve didn't like upgradable computers (or the ability for anyone to get inside), I'm willing to bet it would have gone this way anyways. Other computers are also going this way.

    Ever since iPod, the Mac hasn't been a priority. I don't know where all of a sudden people are coming out of the woodwork saying Apple doesn't care about the Mac since Steve left. It was before Steve left. Apparently, people either weren't around Apple during that time, or conveniently forget. 
    I don't know how much care they put into the Mac, but you're making it sounds like "It doesn't matter if it sucks, because we don't care and that's okay".

    If this is their attitude towards Macs, I'd quit immediately and get a Dell with Linux.
    So because of ONE ISSUE, the iMac Pro sucks? ONE ISSUE! Hell, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say TWO ISSUES. You're a classic example of taking today's version of the internet where everything is exaggerated by 100x and rubbing salt in the wound as if Apple just doesn't care anymore and using that issue as a threat to Apple to go buy a Dell with Linux on it. Go right ahead then...you're not the normal. 
    I'm the one that wrecks haters when it was released.  Haters gonna hate for sure, but then there are many die-hard supporters turned their ground because those issues, and that should tell us something about their altitude.

    I don't care how they want to design it, but at least the thing needs to be reliable, and not something that makes people think "No they're cutting corners".  Who wants to get a kit that has weaker screws?  Or the keyboard that can possibly be deflective?  Those small issues can be far worse than those "usefulness of a touch bar" because it really like a smack in the face for long-time supporters, simply can't even trust the thing works reliably.
    edited June 2018
  • Reply 53 of 53
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 400member
    And be honest, I don't want to switch my primary machine to another computer.  Sure the XPS is nice but not nicer, then I don't want to be the one that have many unknown issues when I got a new Mac.
    edited June 2018
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