Android Xiaomi Mi 8 shamelessly copies iPhone X

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 111
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member

    Proof much? :D
    If nothing else, I believe you’re Australian.
    sphericwatto_cobra
  • Reply 82 of 111
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,666member
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
  • Reply 83 of 111
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,972member
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.


  • Reply 84 of 111
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).

    PS: The conversation had ended about 9 hours before you chimed in.


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    edited June 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 85 of 111
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,972member
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket. Even in the camera app itself (from vertical to horizontal). When my particular phone receives an incoming call, placing it face down it switches into silence mode and turns of vibration mode etc.

    Given the option of three bezeless sides, which side of the phone would most (all?) users choose to have the bezel on? Very probably the 'chin'.

    We are trained to home in on the top of phone screens (just like books, newspapers etc). Having the entire top part 'clean' is attractive to many people. 

    We spend far less time taking photos/videos than looking at the screen for other reasons. Changing the orientation of the phone is a tiny price to pay if you love the idea of a clean screen for the vast majority of your time.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises (not being able to have the top part of the screen looking so clean - even blacking out the notch with a black bar, leaves an on-screen forehead).


  • Reply 86 of 111
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. Aesthetics are nice, but not when it negatively affects utility.

    edited June 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 87 of 111
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,972member
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to #a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. AestheticsSoli said:

    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. Aesthetics are nice, but not when it negatively affects utility.



    "All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. Aesthetics are nice, but not when it negatively affects utility."

    There is nothing superficial about it. Taking a selfie is a minor part of anyone's daily use. It is basically zero part of your particular use. Effectiveness is not affected as you have to position your camera and switch cameras (front/rear) anyway. I doubt most people will have any quibbles about a 180º orientation change that they are only doing for a fraction of their time to begin with and that composition requirements make them try out different orientations anyway. That, without trying different shots (orientation, flash settings etc) which mean more handling of the phone.

    Having a selfie camera 'getting in the way' 100% of your time isn't so nice if you only actually use it once in a while and it can be moved out of the way in the design of the phone. That isn't bad design, it's good design.

    You could argue that putting your ironing board away affects effectiveness too but most people do just that and precisely for the aesthetics. How many times have you not ironed something to avoid taking out the ironing board? Putting it away can affect effectiveness.

    Having to rotate a device (that you rotate throughout the day anyway) doesn't impact its effectiveness but having the camera out of the way gives nice aesthetic gains that some people prefer. Especially those that rarely take selfies in the first place.


  • Reply 88 of 111
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to #a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. AestheticsSoli said:

    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. Aesthetics are nice, but not when it negatively affects utility.



    There is nothing superficial about it.
    I can't think of anything more superficial than saying "I'd rather invert my phone 180° with the Mix 2S rather than having an Mi 8 because the notch is ugly." The OP is more than welcome to that opinion, but it's superficial.

    Having a selfie camera 'getting in the way' 100% of your time isn't so nice if you only actually use it once in a while and it can be moved out of the way in the design of the phone.
    "Getting in the way" wasn't a concern of the OP. It was about attractiveness. And if you want to talk about "getting in the way" then having a chin that extends the entire length of the device which is considerably larger than the notch "gets in the way" a lot more when talking about how much of the display can be covered by the screen. Of course, with Xiaomi and others, they need to have the chin anyway, so it's not like putting the camera at the bottom is the reason the chin exists. So far, I think only Apple and Essential have gone to all 4 edges with their display.

    That isn't bad design, it's good design.
    Any time you completely ignore function and then people like you have to jump through hoops to find way to defend it it's bad design. I don't know if the MBP keyboards were because of form over function, as some say, (i.e.: they made it too thin to use the old keyboard), but It's a still bad design since it reduces the functionality for the typer in terms of typing speed, accuracy, and the keys ability to get stuck. That Dell laptop that AI reviewed with the front facing camera staring up your nostrils with with poor image quality is bad design. You saying, "but all you have to do is invert the device 180° to work around it" is just a poor argument.
    edited June 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 89 of 111
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,972member
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to #a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. AestheticsSoli said:

    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    spheric said:
    Soli, what the hell are you doing? Back off already. 
    No. His first post was the iPhone sucks, I just switched to a Chinese brand, and I've owned everything Apple ever made. it doesn't mean it's not occasionally the truth, but it's suspect AF. And as he already admitted, he didn't own the iPhone from "day one," which he later qualified and still hasn't proven (not that I was ever looking for him to prove something that can't possibly be peer reviewed).


    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here.

    In this case there is only an earpiece which is pretty discrete by definition and has no role in taking photos so the thin chin (in regular use) becomes the thin forehead (in camera mode). We are used to both elements.

    It's not the same case as the Dell as on the Dell you can't turn it upside down. Doing the same on the Xiaomi places the camera in the correct position, avoids flared nostrils and as all camera controls are largely on-screen elements, it should become second nature in no time.

    Personally, I'm fine with notches but perhaps Apple will add an option to black them out like some Android phones do. That way you get FaceID (if that is truly important for you) and never see the notch.
    Whether you're OK with it (or me, since I never used my front-facing camera) is beside the point. It's there for a purpose and to use it requires extra steps to orient its position in order to use it effectively. The notch serves a purpose to put sensors in the best possible position. You can justify a purchase by saying "I don't use a front-facing camera and hate the notch so I like the look and feel of the Mix 2S more than notched phones" but it doesn't automatically make it a good placement for the camera.
    The 'extra' steps aren't an issue. I have to orient my phone constantly. Out of my bag, out of my jacket pocket.
    It's disingenuous to say that taking your phone out of your pocket is the same as inverting your phone 180° to use the front facing camera.

    Compromises have to be made. This is just one example but notched phones make their own compromises.

    That's my point! I'll take a compromise for function over form any day.

    Again, you can have al the reasons you want as to why you don't care about it being at the bottom, but from a functionality standpoint it's still a bad placement for a camera, as you've acknowledged with your comments about inverting the phone to use it effectively.

    If you really want the highest ratio of display for a given footprint, then buying a phone with a chin isn't the way to go. All you're really doing is saying I'm so superficial that I'd rather have a less effective device for a certain aesthetic. Aesthetics are nice, but not when it negatively affects utility.



    There is nothing superficial about it.
    I can't think of anything more superficial than saying "I'd rather invert my phone 180° with the Mix 2S rather than having an Mi 8 because the notch is ugly." The OP is more than welcome to that opinion, but it's superficial.

    Having a selfie camera 'getting in the way' 100% of your time isn't so nice if you only actually use it once in a while and it can be moved out of the way in the design of the phone.
    "Getting in the way" wasn't a concern of the OP. It was about attractiveness. And if you want to talk about "getting in the way" then having a chin that extends the entire length of the device which is considerably larger than the notch "gets in the way" a lot more when talking about how much of the display can be covered by the screen. Of course, with Xiaomi and others, they need to have the chin anyway, so it's not like putting the camera at the bottom is the reason the chin exists. So far, I think only Apple and Essential have gone to all 4 edges with their display.

    That isn't bad design, it's good design.
    Any time to completely ignore function and then people like you have to jump through hoops to find way to defend it it's bad design. I don't know if the MBP keyboards were because of form over function as some say (i.e.: they made it too thin to use the old keyboard), but It's a still bad design since it reduces the functionality for the typer in terms of typing speed, accuracy, and the keys ability to get stuck. That Dell AI reviewed with the front facing camera staring up your nestles and with poor image quality is bad design. You saying, "but all you have to do is invert the device 180° to work around it" is just a poor argument.
    I wasn't referring to the OP or his opinion but on the design and the reasons behind it. That was crystal clear from the first paragraph of my post:

    "On the subject of camera placement, I don't think it matters as long as the is no 'in your face' hardware element like a home button or fingerprint sensor to make the orientation look and feel unnatural. That isn't a problem here."

    We'll have to agree to disagree.

  • Reply 90 of 111
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 306member
    Whatever. The notch is ugly as hell; you can't really escape the fact that this is a design that will disappear as soon as technology allows. Just like the Moto flat tire watch.
  • Reply 91 of 111
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,289member
    avon b7 said:
    claire1 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    The notch is merely a cutout in the screen to minimise bezels.
    Ah yes, it's completely organic that the knockoffs reached this point in their product design immediately after Apple's controversial decision, and that their entire casings, trim, icons, notch shapes, wallpaper, and even product photography are designed to ape the X. 

    There's no way this is just a shameless ripoff by another chinese knockoff, right?






    As I said very clearly. A notch is a notch is a notch.  If we are talking about that, notches, Apple wasn't first and saying (as some do) that there were rumours about the Apple notch and that Essential and Sharp quickly took those rumours and brought products to market first, is simply laughable.

    Another thing is if someone makes a clone of the whole thing.


    You must be new to Apple, whole product categories have sprung up over Apple rumors and patents. It's pathetic.

    And if you think Apple copied the notch for the sake of copying, you're new to Apple.

    Apple is ONE company battling against 1,300 companies and over 3,000 knockoff iPhones a year. Everything Apple does, androids can pull any of the 3,000 losing knockoffs up and say "look! we did it first!!!! Apple copied this random company from Thailand!!!!" because they have a near infinite pool of knockoffs to pull from.
    I am not saying Apple copied anything.

    I am saying that some people are trying to imply that other manufacturers saw rumours about an Apple notch and decided to implement it before Apple. When you reach that level of thinking, it is absurd.



    I think it's logical. I have always known from the beginning that 'some' manufacturers saw rumours about an Apple design and decided to implement it before Apple. Read that I don't mention 'notch' here. When you don't reach that level of thinking, I have to question your ability to think logically.
  • Reply 92 of 111
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    who were you calling fruit at? you whole-grain...
    edited June 2018
  • Reply 93 of 111
    Koll3manKoll3man Posts: 29member
    avon b7 said:
    The notch is merely a cutout in the screen to minimise bezels.
    It is not just "merely" a cutout, because it can be done in a multitude of ways, while, clearly in this case, it was done in the exact same way the other company did it...
     we know which company product was used to produce this...eh...copy.
    Well the Mi 8 does have 3d facial unlock so that's the objective reason it has a bigger notch than other Android phones. Or you want to ignore this fact and simply roll with no other idea than:it was done the exact sane way the othe company did it?
  • Reply 94 of 111
    Koll3manKoll3man Posts: 29member
    Soli said:
    BTW, for taking selfies (I’m not a teenage girl) you can just turn the phone upside down, and the camera on the chin will be now at the top.
    Sure, you can turn it upside down or you may not use it at all, regardless of whether you're a teenage girl or not, but that's the point about it being form over function. The bottom of the screen is a bad place for a camera. AI even reviewed a Dell laptop that had a very attractive, thin bezeled display, but with the camera looking up at your nostrils.

    PS: You still haven't disproven my claim about your suspicious "day one" comment is incorrect, but note that I'm in no way asking you to.
    Form over function? LoL
    Actually it's more like, it's not a phone for selfie lovers and that's about it. You are trying to make a way bigger deal out of it than it actually is but after your fail with "serious doubts you've ever owned an iPhone" your opinions are quite qestionable.
  • Reply 95 of 111
    Toughgamer Toughgamer Posts: 9unconfirmed, member
    Lol darn it I'm indeed dwelling in Sydney...

    And no I don't take selfies, I ask my 8 year old instead to take photos for me.

    Fun fact: not all wallabies are named Bruce, some are called Joey 😂 one of my best mates is actually named Joey.
  • Reply 96 of 111
    TaiGameKTaiGameK Posts: 2unconfirmed, member

     Snapdragon 845, RAM 6 GB, SmartPhone Android, xiaomi too great, $577  :D
  • Reply 97 of 111
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,972member
    Huawei has just announced what it is calling a major breakthrough in smartphone technology claiming X2 graphics performance over the Mi 8 and up to 30% energy savings.

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/honor-play-announced-with-gpu-turbo-4d-gaming-kirin-970.html

    Over  the coming days I suppose we'll find out what has really changed and if the numbers hold up.

    So far, some are claiming that certain games are performing better on mid range Honor (Huawei's sub brand) phones than on iPhone X. Others are claiming that Mali over clocking is involved. Either way, it's clear the devil will be in the details.


    edited June 2018
  • Reply 98 of 111
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,453member
    avon b7 said:
    Huawei has just announced what it is calling a major breakthrough in smartphone technology claiming X2 graphics performance over the Mi 8 and up to 30% energy savings.

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/honor-play-announced-with-gpu-turbo-4d-gaming-kirin-970.html

    Over  the coming days I suppose we'll find out what has really changed and if the numbers hold up.

    So far, some are claiming that certain games are performing better on mid range Honor (Huawei's sub brand) phones than on iPhone X. Others are claiming that Mali over clocking is involved. Either way, it's clear the devil will be in the details.


    You make me laugh...a lot...
  • Reply 99 of 111
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    TaiGameK said:

     Snapdragon 845, RAM 6 GB, SmartPhone Android, xiaomi too great, $577  :D
    What about it, kiddo? Stolen hardware design, stolen GUI, and shit battery life. Enjoy your brick a year down the road when no updates are offered.
  • Reply 100 of 111
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,972member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Huawei has just announced what it is calling a major breakthrough in smartphone technology claiming X2 graphics performance over the Mi 8 and up to 30% energy savings.

    https://www.androidheadlines.com/2018/06/honor-play-announced-with-gpu-turbo-4d-gaming-kirin-970.html

    Over  the coming days I suppose we'll find out what has really changed and if the numbers hold up.

    So far, some are claiming that certain games are performing better on mid range Honor (Huawei's sub brand) phones than on iPhone X. Others are claiming that Mali over clocking is involved. Either way, it's clear the devil will be in the details.


    You make me laugh...a lot...
    Laugh all you want but if the numbers play out, this is very newsworthy.

    A phone that is retailing for just $310 with a Kirin 970 SoC and turbo GPU.

    Put another way, a cheap, large screen phone that has managed to squeeze out more gaming performance in some games than an iPhone X, capable of real time detection of scenes in games (to apply on-the-fly effects), histen audio, far better modem and far better battery tech.

    That is for the Honor Play alone and for just $310. If you lean towards gaming it might pique your interest at the very least.

    Beyond that, the turbo GPU improvements will be available to other, already released phones, including the Honor 7X. That is a $199 phone and although the release information stated up to 60% gains with less power consumption, at least one Honor phone has shown a 77% gain.

    If the numbers stand up to independent scrutiny, this will be a major advance.

    Huawei has already put a value on this achievement: 10 billion dollars.

    They obviously think it has legs and have stated that it will move beyond gaming applications into AR, VR and other applications.


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