Apple confirms iOS 12's 'USB Restricted Mode' will thwart police, criminal access [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 53
    joogabahjoogabah Posts: 139member
    We’ll never know the truth about backdoors because they usually come with gag orders.
    Nah that’s just conspiracy theory. Apple has said clearly that they don’t have any govt backdoors and won’t put any in. John Gruber has talked to team leads who told him they’d quit first. Word would get out and Apple would be crucified. They won’t do it. 

    Saying "it's just a conspiracy theory" is not an argument.  It implies that everything is as it seems and as it is presented, and to suspect otherwise is irrational or even pathological, which is a manipulative, bullying tactic.  It is irrational or just plain naive to not examine assertions critically.  We're talking about a government that has erected the most extensive and complete spying apparatus in history, all while employing political rhetoric about human rights and harshly criticizing other governments for similar behavior over an entire historical epoch.
    edited June 2018 tallest skilmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 53
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    We now know Comey lied to Congress and the public about the extent of the issue of how many iPhones they could not get into, as well as telling Congress there was no other way into the iPhone without a back door, all while knowing the FBI was working with a third party to get into the iphone. Notice the FBI can lie to you and everyone else, but if you lie to them you are put in jail, welcome to the world we now live in.

    If the idiot just kept his mouth shut and did everything behind closed doors and never told anyone they were having issued cracking the iPhone or they figured out how to get into an iPhone, Apple would not be in this cat and mouse game with the government.

    Sorry to make this political statement, but Comey made things far worse than what he thought he was doing with his higher moral ground stance he claimed he was doing for the good of everyone. Because of his politically motivated actions we all will have to deal with the side effect of this and run into possible issue of not working with carplay and other accessories which work through the lightning port. It may be a short term pain since we know Apple is moving to an all wireless world at some point there will be no cables connecting our phones.
    edited June 2018 tallest skil
  • Reply 43 of 53
    chabigchabig Posts: 641member
    I wish there was a way to allow legitimate law enforcement access while at the same time maintaining security. The San Bernardino shooting is a prime example - the police had a clear, legitimate and legal need to access the contents of the phone.

    edited June 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 53
    mike1mike1 Posts: 3,313member
    The cat and mouse game continues as it always has and always will.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 53
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,929member
    Nah that’s just conspiracy theory.
    What the fuck are you even trying to say here? Do you know what a conspiracy is? Do you know what a theory is? Do you know that the CIA explicitly created propaganda to slander that phrase?
     Apple has said clearly that they don’t have any govt backdoors and won’t put any in. They won’t do it. 
    What part of gag order was unclear? We’ve proven that they do it.
    command_f said:
    I prefer to think of this as keeping out the bad guys. In my book, in the UK, that doesn't include the security agencies.
    We know you’re required by law to say that. It’s okay. We get the message.
    rob53 said:
    Add the McCarthy witch hunts…
    Reminder that when the Russian Federation released soviet documents after the collapse of the USSR that Joseph McCarthy was 100% vindicated and everyone he listed was either an actual communist or funded by communists.
    this is supposed to be a democracy.
    No, it fucking isn’t. For fuck’s sake.
    What I’m trying to say is you’re delusional and foolish. As I said and which you ignored, Gruber has spoken to numerous devs who told him they’d quit and leak before implementing govt mandated backdoors. Let that sink into your skull. 
     
    Please get in touch with reality. You’re living in a hollywood-inspired, paranoid, nutter bubble. But Gene Hackman did it better. 
    edited June 2018 singularitywatto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 53
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,339member
    We’ll never know the truth about backdoors because they usually come with gag orders.
    Nah that’s just conspiracy theory. Apple has said clearly that they don’t have any govt backdoors and won’t put any in. John Gruber has talked to team leads who told him they’d quit first. Word would get out and Apple would be crucified. They won’t do it. 

    I've no idea what if any "backdoors" are built in to consumers mobile devices or operating systems. There may be NO "backdoors" per-se just as you believe, at least technically. What we DO know is that the "end-to-end encrypted" iMessages is uniquely allowed to continue in China while other "end-to-end encrypted"  messaging services from Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, even Skype, are not. Russia too has strict requirements for government access to encrypted devices and communications, using them to ban high-profile Telegram from the country for refusal to hand over keys, which for Telegram's part they say they can't because they don't have 'em. FWIW iMessages has not been interrupted there either AFAIK.
    https://www.hrw.org/news/2016/07/12/russia-big-brother-law-harms-security-rights
    https://www.ft.com/content/df35a894-4245-11e8-803a-295c97e6fd0b

    Another point: Do you also remember an under-the-radar story from last fall about Apple beginning to use a special NAND chipset sourced from a particular Chinese factory and destined only for Chinese market handsets? Do you find anything odd about it if true, something kinda un-Apple-ly? 

    Do you think Apple would leave either country over mandated government access to encrypted services or instead fashion a way to comply and continue selling products? In China's case I personally think there's already an answer to that. 

    Since a few posters in the thread wanted to talk Android security instead I would agree that hardened security against searches is only a somewhat recent focus, Nougat being a start and Oreo being the first time I saw them being pretty serious about it. Pixels would of course be nearly if not equally as secure from illegal search and hacking as iPhones IMHO but that's not a whole lotta devices and even the Oreo OS version share as a whole is still under 10% I think. Fortunately some of the security enhancements don't require a full version upgrade anyway so far more users are protected from malware and intrusion than the raw OS numbers might imply, but in general Android is easier to improperly access than iOS all things considered. If hard security and data safety from police search or thieves is really high on the list of important (and I'd guess for most consumers it isn't) then Pixel or iPhone IMO.
    edited June 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 53
    gutengelgutengel Posts: 363member
    MplsP said:
    "I wish there was a way to allow legitimate law enforcement access while at the same time maintaining security."
    Yeah dude, that's called a back door. If you wished so to have one, you should switch to Android or Windows phone, I heard they are pretty easy to crack by law enforcement. I wish people understood the basics of encryption, the phone is secure or it is not, there's no middle ground. And I don't know about you, but most people has pretty sensitive information on their phone, from intimate photos, finances, health records, etc. I don't want anybody snooping in it without my consent. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B. Franklin

    Also, kudos to Ai by mentioning "criminal access" on the article. Every other publication I've seen online related to this topics says "Apple is against law enforcement and government!" making a click bait headline. Privacy is a basic human right, and I'm happy that Apple is an advocate for it. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 53
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,091member
    A very interesting topic, and clearly one difficult to discuss rationally, not just here but anywhere.

    US law enforcement can push for a law requiring owners of certain devices to put their passcodes on a government provided database. They now have access, by law, to everyone's device in case they need it. When this obvious fiction fails, then who is to blame? The criminal. Done.

    Alternatively, the US can declare iOS a security risk, and seize the source code as a constitutional take. Yes, they'd have to pay compensation. Eventually. 

    Neither of these options are particularly rational or helpful. 
  • Reply 49 of 53
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,799member
    Apple in a statement to AppleInsider on Wednesday said
    This surprises me. I thought after the Apple v. Appleinsider and Kasper Jade lawsuit back in the early 2000s that there was no ongoing communication between the two parties. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 53
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    maestro64 said:
    Sorry to make this political statement, but Comey made things far worse than what he thought he was doing with his higher moral ground stance he claimed he was doing for the good of everyone.
    Oh, that’s not political. The only thing being political here is the FBI, which has been used since its foundation by the same power group against and for both parties whenever they serve its goals.
  • Reply 51 of 53
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member

    What I’m trying to say is you’re delusional and foolish.
    And you’re wrong, clearly, as you were proven wrong. What you said is false. It is cited and sourced. You. Were. Proven. Wrong.
    As I said and which you ignored
    Because it doesn’t matter. Because you were already proven wrong. I didn’t need to pay attention to it.
    Gruber has spoken to numerous devs who told him they’d quit
    Your anecdotes are not relevant. These individual developers are not relevant within the larger context of the companies in question. Their statements–whether true or false–are not relevant. Because either they outright lied, which is entirely possible (and you’ve no evidence to suggest they haven’t lied since GAG ORDERS exist as a concept), or they told the truth… BUT JUST PERSONALLY DO NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BACK DOORS THAT WE, AGAIN, HAVE PROVEN DO EXIST.
    Let that sink into your skull. 
    It’s good that a handful of developers (claim to) have principles. I have absolutely no doubt that at least roughly half of them DO believe and would act on what you have said. Your statement, however, is not evidence against that which we have already PROVEN TO BE TRUE. 
    Please get in touch with reality. You’re living in a hollywood-inspired, paranoid, nutter bubble.
    You have absolutely no argument whatsoever. You have absolutely no evidence for your claims. You have absolutely no refutation for anything I have said. WE HAVE PROVEN THAT THE US GOVERNMENT HAS ACCESS. YOU ARE OUTRIGHT LYING. You don’t even know what the words you’re using mean.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 52 of 53
    ivanhivanh Posts: 597member
    To crack it can be very easy.
    What you need is an app that stop the iPhone to Time Syncing to any time servers and turn the clock back for an hour every 30 minutes. 
    Its like the old wisdom giving you 3 wishes and you always ask for 3 more wishes on the third wish.
  • Reply 53 of 53
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 3,963member
    MplsP said:
    So if you play music though your Belkin adapter for an hour with the screen off, it stops suddenly forcing you to unlock your iPhone possibly while driving? That's not a good thing. This needs to be optional. Most of us don't really care if the police look at the crap on our iPhones.
    This will be annoying if CarPlay stops while you are driving. Hopefully there is a setting to disable it while using CarPlay. 
    I wish there was a way to allow legitimate law enforcement access while at the same time maintaining security. The San Bernardino shooting is a prime example - the police had a clear, legitimate and legal need to access the contents of the phone. Unfortunately, back doors and other techniques have virtually universally been hacked and abused, as others have pointed out. Even GrayShift made no attempt to ensure that their device would be limited to legitimate uses. 
    Wait, what was the legitimate need to open the San Bernardino shooters’ phones? By all accounts it was a work place shooting, and the shooters were dead. There was no pressing need, and the investigators knew it. They just wanted to use fear tactics with some of the public to coerce Apple. You fell for it. 
    Well, the shooter was dead, so there was no concern for civil rights, but there was a legitimate question as to whether there may have been information on the phone regarding other terrorist cells. The fact that no useful information turned up on the phone is irrelevant - the question is whether there was a reasonable concern that information may have been not he phone and whether the government had a legal right/authority to search it, and the answer to both of these questions was yes. I completely agree that the government was also using the case to push a point with Apple, but again, that doesn't invalidate the other points.

    Honestly, unless you are trying to make the argument that the government never has any legitimate right to perform a search (an argument that there is no legal basis for) or that there could never be any pertinent information on someone's phone then the issue still remains. 

    I view smartphones more as an electronic diary - you have a right to expect that your diary (or anything else in your home, for that matter) remains private, but government agents (police, etc) can legally search them under the appropriate circumstances (search warrants, etc.) 
    zimmie said:
    Unfortunately, device security boils down to math, and math doesn't care if you have a warrant or not. ... There is no reason to think a technological backdoor in cryptographic systems would be any less abused or any less subject to idiots leaking the keys.
    Yes, that's the problem; no one has a viable method to ensure appropriate, legal access that will not become widespread and known to everyone, thus destroying the security completely. 

    I would point out that while privacy is a right, it is not absolute. The constitution protects us from unreasonable search and seizure, but it also gives the government the right to search our property if there is probably cause and a warrant has been issued. You may not agree with that, but that is law.
    gatorguy
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