Apple's new 'Behind the Mac' ad campaign puts spotlight back on creatives

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,799member
    GeorgeBMac said: Music, real music, made by real people playing real instruments has been replaced by some girl sitting on the floor in her living manipulating electronic squeaks and thumps augmented by her whining into a microphone -- and calling it music.
    It's not a "replacement". It's an additional way to make music. Electronic music has been around since the Beatles and doesn't seem to have eliminated much of anything. It's just added to what's available. 
    Additional?
    When I listen to any of the "New Music" playlists on Apple music it seems to be pedominatly electronic squeaks and thumps augmented with a whiny voiced singer...
    You should dive deeper than that shit in ‘New Music’. Tons of more experimental and underground electronic music is out there. 
    Perhaps, but I use music for pleasure, enjoyment and relaxation.  I have no desire to dig through piles of manure looking for the gem...

    Actually, in the golden age of music -- mostly AM and later, FM radio type stuff through the 20th century music was a business that was carefully curated.  The music producer conglomerates worked hard to generate music that the radio stations would play.   It was a 2 stage approval process that been, as we see in the commercial, with a girl sitting on the floor of her living room generating (mostly) crap that is then propagated out as $0.99 songs....
    Grimes can play guitar, drums, keyboard, and violin.  She built her own studio and self-produced four highly acclaimed albums, and created a unique sound.  She knows a lot more about making music than you do.

    You’re right that taste makers may not have given her airplay, so thank heavens that technology means we aren’t all at the whim of stuffy tastemakers.

    There’s s plenty of guitar driven pop-rock out there.


    edited June 2018 dysamoriafastasleep
  • Reply 62 of 98
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    crowley said:
    GeorgeBMac said: Music, real music, made by real people playing real instruments has been replaced by some girl sitting on the floor in her living manipulating electronic squeaks and thumps augmented by her whining into a microphone -- and calling it music.
    It's not a "replacement". It's an additional way to make music. Electronic music has been around since the Beatles and doesn't seem to have eliminated much of anything. It's just added to what's available. 
    Additional?
    When I listen to any of the "New Music" playlists on Apple music it seems to be pedominatly electronic squeaks and thumps augmented with a whiny voiced singer...
    You should dive deeper than that shit in ‘New Music’. Tons of more experimental and underground electronic music is out there. 
    Perhaps, but I use music for pleasure, enjoyment and relaxation.  I have no desire to dig through piles of manure looking for the gem...

    Actually, in the golden age of music -- mostly AM and later, FM radio type stuff through the 20th century music was a business that was carefully curated.  The music producer conglomerates worked hard to generate music that the radio stations would play.   It was a 2 stage approval process that been, as we see in the commercial, with a girl sitting on the floor of her living room generating (mostly) crap that is then propagated out as $0.99 songs....
    Grimes can play guitar, drums, keyboard, and violin.  She built her own studio and self-produced four highly acclaimed albums, and created a unique sound.  She knows a lot more about making music than you do.

    You’re right that taste makers may not have given her airplay, so thank heavens that technology means we aren’t all at the whim of stuffy tastemakers.

    There’s s plenty of guitar driven pop-rock out there.


    No thanks...  I'll stick to real music where I don't have to search through dozens and dozens of songs to find a decent one.

    Apple and HP were both born in a garage.   That doesn't automatically make everything created in a garage (or a living room floor) good.  In rare occasions it works -- but usually it produces junk.  The more normal path to produce professional, quality results is to use professionals supported by professionals in a professional environment.

    It's why, when a professional musician goes on the road, they are often accompanied by a trailer truck or two of equipment supported by a squad of technicians and helpers and backed by groups of fellow professionals.
  • Reply 63 of 98
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    So, according to George, The Backstreet Boys are professional musicians which equates to good music because they have “technicians and helpers” but Bob Dylan or Paul McCartbey doing an acoustic set by their house for the love of music aren’t.

    BTW, Grimes is a professional musician by your own definition. Maybe if your definition of good wasn’t “if I didn’t know about it it must not be good” you wouldn’t keep getting hoisted by your own petard on this topic.


    PS: I wonder where that leaves countess artists like Trent Reznor that have the standard setup for tours and also make their own music. Reznor has been a huge supporter of Apple and has even released open sources music via GarageBand.

    edited June 2018 dysamoriafastasleep
  • Reply 64 of 98
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,666member
    crowley said:
    GeorgeBMac said: Music, real music, made by real people playing real instruments has been replaced by some girl sitting on the floor in her living manipulating electronic squeaks and thumps augmented by her whining into a microphone -- and calling it music.
    It's not a "replacement". It's an additional way to make music. Electronic music has been around since the Beatles and doesn't seem to have eliminated much of anything. It's just added to what's available. 
    Additional?
    When I listen to any of the "New Music" playlists on Apple music it seems to be pedominatly electronic squeaks and thumps augmented with a whiny voiced singer...
    You should dive deeper than that shit in ‘New Music’. Tons of more experimental and underground electronic music is out there. 
    Perhaps, but I use music for pleasure, enjoyment and relaxation.  I have no desire to dig through piles of manure looking for the gem...

    Actually, in the golden age of music -- mostly AM and later, FM radio type stuff through the 20th century music was a business that was carefully curated.  The music producer conglomerates worked hard to generate music that the radio stations would play.   It was a 2 stage approval process that been, as we see in the commercial, with a girl sitting on the floor of her living room generating (mostly) crap that is then propagated out as $0.99 songs....
    Grimes can play guitar, drums, keyboard, and violin.  She built her own studio and self-produced four highly acclaimed albums, and created a unique sound.  She knows a lot more about making music than you do.

    You’re right that taste makers may not have given her airplay, so thank heavens that technology means we aren’t all at the whim of stuffy tastemakers.

    There’s s plenty of guitar driven pop-rock out there.


    No thanks...  I'll stick to real music where I don't have to search through dozens and dozens of songs to find a decent one.

    Apple and HP were both born in a garage.   That doesn't automatically make everything created in a garage (or a living room floor) good.  In rare occasions it works -- but usually it produces junk.  The more normal path to produce professional, quality results is to use professionals supported by professionals in a professional environment.

    It's why, when a professional musician goes on the road, they are often accompanied by a trailer truck or two of equipment supported by a squad of technicians and helpers and backed by groups of fellow professionals.
    Sounds like the dead end of over processed and over produced music that has forgotten its roots to me, but that's what's great about music; there's enough out there for everybody to find something, if they only look past their biases.
  • Reply 65 of 98
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,065member
    "Mac" isn't a proper noun. Stop using it as such. It's an object; a tool. "The Mac". "A Mac."
  • Reply 66 of 98
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    dysamoria said:
    "Mac" isn't a proper noun. Stop using it as such. It's an object; a tool. "The Mac". "A Mac."
    You need to rethink that comment. Maybe checking out Apple's website will help.
    lamboaudi4racerhomie3
  • Reply 67 of 98
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,065member
    Pssst Apple: professionals need faster GPUs.
    Professionals need machines that won't throttle due to lousy thermal designs.
    lamboaudi4
  • Reply 68 of 98
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,065member
    Soli said:
    dysamoria said:
    "Mac" isn't a proper noun. Stop using it as such. It's an object; a tool. "The Mac". "A Mac."
    You need to rethink that comment. Maybe checking out Apple's website will help.
    Rethink why? Just because Apple wants to treat the Mac like it's a person, using the language I correctly, doesn't mean everyone else should mimic them. Hopping on other people's bandwagons isn't independent thought... like when Apple jumped on the flat design bandwagon in 2013. Marketing constantly wants people to change how they think, but tell me why that's necessary or good?
    tallest skilavon b7
  • Reply 69 of 98
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,748member
    dysamoria said:
    Soli said:
    dysamoria said:
    "Mac" isn't a proper noun. Stop using it as such. It's an object; a tool. "The Mac". "A Mac."
    You need to rethink that comment. Maybe checking out Apple's website will help.
    Rethink why? Just because Apple wants to treat the Mac like it's a person, using the language I correctly, doesn't mean everyone else should mimic them. Hopping on other people's bandwagons isn't independent thought... like when Apple jumped on the flat design bandwagon in 2013. Marketing constantly wants people to change how they think, but tell me why that's necessary or good?
    Your argument is that Mac alway needs to be prefaced with a determiner. It does not. It's a brand name, and this should be clear to you by looking at Apple's website. It can take a determiner (or modifier) but it's not a requirement for proper English.
    edited June 2018 tmay
  • Reply 70 of 98
    jdwjdw Posts: 733member
    jdw said:
    Apple products were extremely mature in 1996.  
    1996?  Mature?   At the height of the PC/Computing revolution?   Really?

    That's all that I had to read...   Thanks, that made for a good laugh!
    Yes, “really.” Lest you forget that “mature” in computer terminology is relative.  1996 Macs were mature relative to the 1984 Macintosh 128k, just as your self-described “maturing” Macs of today in 2018 are mature relative to 1996 Macs.  People of 2038 will laugh at how much more their computing devices are mature (and still “maturing”) versus 2018 models.  But note how I say “computing devices” rather than “Macs” because the fate of our beloved fruit computer is uncertain, and that, my friend, is no laughing matter.
    edited June 2018
  • Reply 71 of 98
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    Soli said:
    So, according to George, The Backstreet Boys are professional musicians which equates to good music because they have “technicians and helpers” but Bob Dylan or Paul McCartbey doing an acoustic set by their house for the love of music aren’t.

    BTW, Grimes is a professional musician by your own definition. Maybe if your definition of good wasn’t “if I didn’t know about it it must not be good” you wouldn’t keep getting hoisted by your own petard on this topic.


    PS: I wonder where that leaves countess artists like Trent Reznor that have the standard setup for tours and also make their own music. Reznor has been a huge supporter of Apple and has even released open sources music via GarageBand.

    That must be a pleasant little world you live in where you get to make facts be anything you want them to be...
  • Reply 72 of 98
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    jdw said:
    jdw said:
    Apple products were extremely mature in 1996.  
    1996?  Mature?   At the height of the PC/Computing revolution?   Really?

    That's all that I had to read...   Thanks, that made for a good laugh!
    Yes, “really.” Lest you forget that “mature” in computer terminology is relative.  1996 Macs were mature relative to the 1984 Macintosh 128k, just as your self-described “maturing” Macs of today in 2018 are mature relative to 1996 Macs.  People of 2038 will laugh at how much more their computing devices are mature (and still “maturing”) versus 2018 models.  But note how I say “computing devices” rather than “Macs” because the fate of our beloved fruit computer is uncertain, and that, my friend, is no laughing matter.
    That's like saying that a 5 year old is mature relative to being a 2 year old.   More mature -- yes.   In anyway mature -- No!  

    No, your analogy is a false one:  1996 PCs were in no way, shape or form close to maturity.  They were more like pre-teens -- almost ready to stretch their legs...

    Likewise, your analogy that 2038 PCs will be more mature than 2018 PCs is like comparing a 40 year old to a 60 year old.   Yes, things change over the 20 years -- but at a much slower, steadier pace because the 40 year old has already mostly completed their maturity.  (Well some have !)
  • Reply 73 of 98
    jdwjdw Posts: 733member
    That's like saying that...
    Since you are being quite argumentative about this, I will admit it was "my bad" to have so brazenly used the term "mature" (ending with an "e") for two reasons: (1) it's clear you enjoy arguing with others about the meaning of the term "mature," and (2) you actually used the word "maturing" (with an ING at the end) in your original post on this subject.  So to correct my horrendous mistake (yes, I jest), and to type something that is quite nearly irrefutable in your current line of argument, I shall rephrase as more precisely, using the very word you yourself had used in your earlier post (which means if you ponder further arguing about this subject, you must take the argument up with yourself):

    1996 Macs were maturING relative to the 1984 Macintosh 128k, just as your self-described “maturing” Macs of today in 2018 are maturING relative to 1996 Macs.  People of 2038 will laugh at how much more their computing devices are maturING versus 2018 models.  But note how I say “computing devices” rather than “Macs” because the fate of our beloved fruit computer is uncertain, and that, my friend, is no laughing matter.

    Now with that out of the way, we hopefully we can be more mature (which only comes through a process of maturING over time) in this forum and refrain from arguing over what is arguably a quite trivial matter centered on the meaning of a single word.  --DEEP SIGH--  --DEEP BREATH-- For truly, all of that arguing doesn't change the fact that Apple has much more work to do to show us, with HARDWARE and not just ADs, that they are still very much committed to the Mac, and not simply committed to "announcing thing ABOUT the Mac."  It's easy to kick out a new Mac every several years but more challenging to update it annually or even every other year.  Consider again what they've done, or rather, have NOT done, concerning the 2012 Mac Pro and Mac Mini.  It's a crying shame.  This truth should help all of us who love Apple to put their recent Ads into perspective.  That is and forever shall be my point.
  • Reply 74 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,799member
    crowley said:
    GeorgeBMac said: Music, real music, made by real people playing real instruments has been replaced by some girl sitting on the floor in her living manipulating electronic squeaks and thumps augmented by her whining into a microphone -- and calling it music.
    It's not a "replacement". It's an additional way to make music. Electronic music has been around since the Beatles and doesn't seem to have eliminated much of anything. It's just added to what's available. 
    Additional?
    When I listen to any of the "New Music" playlists on Apple music it seems to be pedominatly electronic squeaks and thumps augmented with a whiny voiced singer...
    You should dive deeper than that shit in ‘New Music’. Tons of more experimental and underground electronic music is out there. 
    Perhaps, but I use music for pleasure, enjoyment and relaxation.  I have no desire to dig through piles of manure looking for the gem...

    Actually, in the golden age of music -- mostly AM and later, FM radio type stuff through the 20th century music was a business that was carefully curated.  The music producer conglomerates worked hard to generate music that the radio stations would play.   It was a 2 stage approval process that been, as we see in the commercial, with a girl sitting on the floor of her living room generating (mostly) crap that is then propagated out as $0.99 songs....
    Grimes can play guitar, drums, keyboard, and violin.  She built her own studio and self-produced four highly acclaimed albums, and created a unique sound.  She knows a lot more about making music than you do.

    You’re right that taste makers may not have given her airplay, so thank heavens that technology means we aren’t all at the whim of stuffy tastemakers.

    There’s s plenty of guitar driven pop-rock out there.


    No thanks...  I'll stick to real music where I don't have to search through dozens and dozens of songs to find a decent one.

    Apple and HP were both born in a garage.   That doesn't automatically make everything created in a garage (or a living room floor) good.  In rare occasions it works -- but usually it produces junk.  The more normal path to produce professional, quality results is to use professionals supported by professionals in a professional environment.

    It's why, when a professional musician goes on the road, they are often accompanied by a trailer truck or two of equipment supported by a squad of technicians and helpers and backed by groups of fellow professionals.
    What are you saying no thanks to?  I didn't suggest anything?

    I guarantee you that there is no time, place or genre of music where you won't have to " search through dozens and dozens of songs to find a decent one" if you just dive in without any curation or recommendation.  Your idea that there is some "real music" that is all good because it uses the "right" instruments and the musicians are standing up is nonsensical, as is the idea that studio management or radio playlists were any guarantee of quality, rather than whatever would sell to teenagers

    If you were to say that a large proportion of electronic music isn't good, I'd agree, but I'd also say the same of any genre you care to name.  Grimes is one of the good ones.  It's ok if you don't like her, but attempting to diminish her by delegitimising the way she works is kind of shitty.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 75 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,799member


    Look at this punk, how is going to have any creative thoughts sitting down there?
    fastasleep
  • Reply 76 of 98
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    crowley said:


    Look at this punk, how is going to have any creative thoughts sitting down there?
    "creation" in and of itself is neutral.  
    One can create good stuff as well as bad stuff.  
    Actually, it's a lot easier and more common to produce bad stuff.   A good example is today's electronic sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced "singer" masquerading as music.
  • Reply 77 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,799member
    crowley said:


    Look at this punk, how is going to have any creative thoughts sitting down there?
    "creation" in and of itself is neutral.  
    One can create good stuff as well as bad stuff.  
    Actually, it's a lot easier and more common to produce bad stuff.   A good example is today's electronic sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced "singer" masquerading as music.
    It is music.  It may not be music that suits your taste, but it definitely is music.  Music in and of itself is neutral.

    Dismissing an entire genre of music as "masquerading" is such a generational tripping wire.  Why do fools always end up making the same mistakes their parents did?  "Rock and roll is corrupting youth", "disco is mindless", "metal is just noise", "rap is just fast talking", "punk is just angry kids", "electonica is just sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced singer".

    Bob Dylan was whiny voiced too.  And a lot of his music was shit too.  You need to expand your horizons a bit dude.
    Solilamboaudi4fastasleep
  • Reply 78 of 98
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,441administrator
    Knock off the squabbling.
  • Reply 79 of 98
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:


    Look at this punk, how is going to have any creative thoughts sitting down there?
    "creation" in and of itself is neutral.  
    One can create good stuff as well as bad stuff.  
    Actually, it's a lot easier and more common to produce bad stuff.   A good example is today's electronic sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced "singer" masquerading as music.
    It is music.  It may not be music that suits your taste, but it definitely is music.  Music in and of itself is neutral.

    Dismissing an entire genre of music as "masquerading" is such a generational tripping wire.  Why do fools always end up making the same mistakes their parents did?  "Rock and roll is corrupting youth", "disco is mindless", "metal is just noise", "rap is just fast talking", "punk is just angry kids", "electonica is just sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced singer".

    Bob Dylan was whiny voiced too.  And a lot of his music was shit too.  You need to expand your horizons a bit dude.
    If you understand the history, you'll know that the sophistication and complexity of music has been declining since the 19th century: 
    It started with 100+ piece orchestras of about 15 different types of instruments playing complex pieces
    Went to 10-30 piece bands of a half dozen types of instruments playing "popular" music
    Dropped to 4 pieces of 2 different instruments (guitars & drums) playing variations of a single genre
    Now, we have a girl sitting on her living room floor with no instruments....

    I guess some call that progress...
  • Reply 80 of 98
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,799member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:


    Look at this punk, how is going to have any creative thoughts sitting down there?
    "creation" in and of itself is neutral.  
    One can create good stuff as well as bad stuff.  
    Actually, it's a lot easier and more common to produce bad stuff.   A good example is today's electronic sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced "singer" masquerading as music.
    It is music.  It may not be music that suits your taste, but it definitely is music.  Music in and of itself is neutral.

    Dismissing an entire genre of music as "masquerading" is such a generational tripping wire.  Why do fools always end up making the same mistakes their parents did?  "Rock and roll is corrupting youth", "disco is mindless", "metal is just noise", "rap is just fast talking", "punk is just angry kids", "electonica is just sounds accompanied by a whiny voiced singer".

    Bob Dylan was whiny voiced too.  And a lot of his music was shit too.  You need to expand your horizons a bit dude.
    If you understand the history, you'll know that the sophistication and complexity of music has been declining since the 19th century: 
    It started with 100+ piece orchestras of about 15 different types of instruments playing complex pieces
    Went to 10-30 piece bands of a half dozen types of instruments playing "popular" music
    Dropped to 4 pieces of 2 different instruments (guitars & drums) playing variations of a single genre
    Now, we have a girl sitting on her living room floor with no instruments....

    I guess some call that progress...
    Yes, some would.

    At one point in history you'd need a cottage industry of an accounting department to churn a companies profit and lost forecasts over the course of a week.  Now a single person can update some values in a spreadsheet and do the same in minutes.

    At one point in history you'd need a legion of people in a design and print department to arrange and typset the consitutent parts of a pamphlet.  Now a single person can manipulate some components in InDesign and do the same in minutes.

    Your argument is against progress, and the democratisation of the technology that powers the creative part of music.  That it has been taken away from being the exclusive domain of elites with the wealth to patronise a 100+ piece orchestra is a good thing.

    Orchestras still exist.  They're great.
    Big bands still exist.  They're great.
    4 pieces still exist.  They're great.
    And a girl (gender is relevant?) sitting on her living room floor (pretty sure it's her studio, but keep digging your hole) with the most powerful instrument in the world, a computer that can synthesize any sound exists too.

    You don't have to listen to any of it if you don't want to, but the fact that it all exists is great!
    fastasleep
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