Apple taking Maps 'to the next level' in iOS 12

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  • Reply 61 of 76
    Apple Maps is good enough for me in Toronto.

    When travelling out of the country I use Here We Go. Formerly Nokia Maps, now owned by BMW, Daimler, & the Volkswagen group.
    I'm heading to Finland in a couple of months (daughter in University) and have started planning the trip on the HERE website which links to the iPhone App. I downloaded detailed road maps for all of Europe (15 gigs) No cell service. No problem. No Data. No Problem
    Alex1N
  • Reply 62 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member
    I'm sitting at Logan International Airport after having spent several days in Istanbul Turkey. I found Apple Maps to work very well there not only for directions but traffic congestion. I was at a party last night at a hotel and the taxi driver who gave me a ride back to my hotel-a block from the Blue Mosque if you're familiar with such landmarks-used my phone to get the turn-by-turn directions to the hotel. Unlike the driver who originally took me to the hotel several days earlier that spent a considerable amount of time prowling around the neighborhood trying to find the hotel. Anecdotal and just one case but I was sure happy to have it available to me.
    Complete sidebar, but years ago I stayed at a hotel a few blocks from the Blue Mosque as well. It had a rooftop patio where I enjoyed my wine and tried to read a book one night, but couldn't stop looking at the illuminated dome and minarets of the mosque poking up through the trees — absolutely stunning! The inside wasn't bad either. :)
    Alex1N
  • Reply 63 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member
    Rayz2016 said:

    netmage said:
    foggyhill said:
    Google is good for POI things, that's the WHOLE BUSINESS (thank god they're actually good at their own job), but their map has not improved much in a long time and in my neighborhood there are 3 errors that have been there for 10 years. Their POI also are pretty horrible, half the businesses inside 1km are missing and a third of those that are there are the wrong ones!!! 
    And in ten years have you submitted a single correction? They make it pretty easy - it used to be really easy but they cut down on crowd sourcing edits after some spam edits.
    I've done a couple.

    The last one was my chiropractor who had moved to a new location. I was standing outside his new place sending the new location, and the receptionist came out to ask if I was okay. I said, "No problem; just telling Apple Maps that you've moved."

    She nodded and said, "Thank you. The things we have to think about these days. Yell, Facebook, Websites, and now we've got all these map things."

    Anyway, the change came through in about two weeks, so I think the mapping team was already onto it.

    I've submitted a few, and usually get a notification that my correction has been implemented within a week or two.

    If Apple is smart, and we know they are, they're looking at many more ways to crowdsource and user data to speed up and automate more than just route data, but also POI. They're taking their sweet time to make sure that they don't do this in a way that violates user privacy though, which is what people often forget when they rush to tout Google's abilities over Apple's. I'd rather they take the time to do it the right way. They'll get there.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 64 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member

    Rayz2016 said:

    wood1208 said:
    When will that day come when I tell Siri, Direction->Source->destination->take these roads/route->Go ? Point is you know a route well traveled for you so telling Siri create custom route and Go.
    Why do you need directions for a route you already know well?

    Because it also gives you information on traffic conditions. Vital in Reading, where the traffic can suddenly clog up after the police have been chasing a kid on a scooter. Not so useful in London, which is always clogged up.
    Yeah, that occurred to me — but at that point don't you just ask Maps to give directions, and you can easily see the multiple routes provided and estimated times? Versus, hey Maps, I want to go this route exactly, tell me if I shouldn't, which ostensibly is the same thing.
  • Reply 65 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member

    Rayz2016 said:

    entropys said:
    That said, the roll out of new features is so glacial, and so geographically limited I would have to think while Apple seems to have been mainly focussed on really fixing the backend, to the extent it hasn’t really pushed the getting out and about and getting the actual accurate data to populate Maps. Look at this discussion, the new features are for Northern California only. To be a good mapping tool, It needs to do both, a powerful backend and world wide, accurate data.

    You have to start somewhere, and why not in their back yard? That doesn't mean they're not planning on rapid growth after things have proven to work:

    Cue: 

    "We’ve got a dedicated team — we started this four years ago — across a variety of fields from ML, to map design, to you name it. There’s thousands of people working on this all around the globe from here in the Bay Area, to Seattle, Austin, New York. We have people in other countries, in cities like Berlin, Paris, Singapore, Beijing, Malmö, Hyderabad."

    "This team’s dispersed around the globe. It’s important to have that when you’re trying to create and do this. We’re trying to look at how people use our devices all around the world. Our focus is to build these maps for people on the go."


    Four years?

    So they've managed to keep something a secret. 

    The TechCrunch article is well worth a read, especially the author's speculation as to why the mapping vans seem to be carrying far more equipment than they need for simple route mapping.
    But I read on an internet forum that Eddy Cue doesn't do anything at Apple except dance to Cuban music and not wear socks to important meetings and should be fired immediately. 
    Alex1Ncornchip
  • Reply 66 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member

    Does anyone else think that the firing of Scott Forstall did not help the improvement of maps or Siri? 

    Im sorry, I just think that his presence created conflict which resulted in people putting in their best efforts to show that their ideas were better. 
    Compared to now which their thinking is "good enough". 

    Cue, Federighi, Fadell, and Ive all hated him, but Steve kept him around because he knew that in order to show that your idea was better, you had to put in the effort. 

    In 4 years has maps improved to justify what they have done or are they now realizing they underestimated their timeline in competing with Google maps. 

    Remember, maps was created in haste after negotiations with Google were falling apart. 
    Google was not allowing the same features with maps on iOS compared to android. 
    The thing that Forstall showed the most effort in, at least publicly, was stupid shit like Passbook's "card shredder" animation. You could see it on his face when he demoed it that year. I'm assuming he put similar effort into getting that stupid reel-to-reel tape player interface in Podcasts. I know he did more than that, but asserting he put in more effort than the others you mentioned is absurd. Also, he was canned for NOT agreeing to apologize for NOT putting in enough effort into Maps before it was released!

    The fact he was hated as a divisive figure amongst so many others in a tight knit organization like the SVPs of Apple, in addition to blatant subordination, means firing him was the way to go. Just getting rid of the fucking stupid torn paper in Calendar was worth it to me. :) In my opinion, his firing and the advent of iOS 7 was a much needed and cathartic bandaid-ripping change that helped usher in the modernization of iOS. I saw someone using iOS 6 on an iPhone 4 the other day and for a second I felt like I was in the dark ages.

    Was he essential to Maps or Siri? Do you have any evidence to suggest he was? 

    Maps is miles better than it was back then. This is an even further re-build from the ground up to more vastly improve what's already been improved exponentially.
    edited July 2018 Alex1NRayz2016
  • Reply 67 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member

    Notsofast said:
    What privacy issues are there with the iOS version of Google maps? 
    Many.  One of the central mistakes people make in analysis the threat Google poses is that they look at each piece of data in isolation.  For example, people will say "whats the harm if Google records that I went from my house to a particular office building?"  Even is you use iOS,  if you use Google Maps it's no different than using Google search or any other service.  They will take the Google Maps information and your ISP address, etc., and link it elsewhere. 

    The mistake is that Google doesn't store that data in isolation. Google takes that data and will try and link it to the "universal identifier" they have assigned to you, so unless you take certain measures to thwart Google,  using Google Maps provides them more data. That trip to that building will link to other trips to that building to the web sessions they recorded where you clicked on a web site regarding a particular medical condition and to gmail's you wrote to your family, etc., etc., to give Google keen insights into your formerly private medical information.  You can play this out a million different ways the potential threats once Google has amassed into a digital dossier the most intimate details of your life.  And, then extend that to the others who can access that data, such as law enforcement with a valid subpoena/warrant, someone who files a suit against you and has a civil subpoena, hackers who get access to it,  governments, intel agencies, etc., or just the advertisers, insurance companies, etc., who pay Google to give them indirect access to your information. 
    ^^^ THIS, a million times this. And as we know from a lot of the Snowden docs, the NSA probably has access to much if not all of this data even without a subpoena or payment to Google.

    The Cambridge Analytica & Facebook scandal was not an isolated incident, and the only reason there was any "outrage" by anyone other than the public is because it became public knowledge. All we get in return is Mark Zuckerberg trying to pretend not to be a lizard person in front of Congress, which ended up serving as more of a humorous reminder that the people that make laws with regard to technology and privacy in the US have no fucking idea how any of these things work.
    Alex1NGeorgeBMaccornchippatchythepirate
  • Reply 68 of 76
    mbenz1962mbenz1962 Posts: 160member
    Rayz2016 said:

    netmage said:
    foggyhill said:
    Google is good for POI things, that's the WHOLE BUSINESS (thank god they're actually good at their own job), but their map has not improved much in a long time and in my neighborhood there are 3 errors that have been there for 10 years. Their POI also are pretty horrible, half the businesses inside 1km are missing and a third of those that are there are the wrong ones!!! 
    And in ten years have you submitted a single correction? They make it pretty easy - it used to be really easy but they cut down on crowd sourcing edits after some spam edits.
    I've done a couple.

    The last one was my chiropractor who had moved to a new location. I was standing outside his new place sending the new location, and the receptionist came out to ask if I was okay. I said, "No problem; just telling Apple Maps that you've moved."

    She nodded and said, "Thank you. The things we have to think about these days. Yell, Facebook, Websites, and now we've got all these map things."

    Anyway, the change came through in about two weeks, so I think the mapping team was already onto it.

    I've submitted a few, and usually get a notification that my correction has been implemented within a week or two.

    If Apple is smart, and we know they are, they're looking at many more ways to crowdsource and user data to speed up and automate more than just route data, but also POI. They're taking their sweet time to make sure that they don't do this in a way that violates user privacy though, which is what people often forget when they rush to tout Google's abilities over Apple's. I'd rather they take the time to do it the right way. They'll get there.
     I use the "Report an issue" feature a lot as well.  Overall Apple is pretty responsive, but sometimes it takes a long time for a correction to post, and sometimes they do silly things with the report.  I once reported a duplicate POI; the map had two instances of a bakery literally 100m apart.  I reported one as a duplicate and put in the text field that there is another instance 100m to the right which is correct.  Maps informed me a few days later the error had been corrected, but then I saw Apple removed both instances...
    edited July 2018 muthuk_vanalingamAlex1N
  • Reply 69 of 76
    sir_clasir_cla Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    In Italy, Apple Maps is back. I love Apple and all its products, and I think the improvement of AM is mandatory, with the opening of the Mirroring of AplleCarPlay also for Waze and GMaps. Many POIs are missing, lane assistance is missing. Moreover, the management of favorites is comfortable and complicated. I do not want to use Waze, but sometimes I'm forced to do it because AMaps still has a lot of limits. We hope that ios12 will be much better
  • Reply 70 of 76
    Alex1NAlex1N Posts: 49member
    Rayz2016 said:
    ireland said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    ireland said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    OMG! 

    I saw one two days ago!  It was cruising along the Queens Road in Reading. I thought it was a fake because it had a sign on the side that said Apple Maps, and I thought all the mapping vans were plain white. Maybe it was one of the new ones they’re running themselves. 

    Anyne else in the UK seen one?
    You can search online to see them. They've been using the writing on the exterior for quite a while.
    Yep. It was them. ߘ᦬t;/div>
    It’s only a van, lol
     
    It was the Elvis of vans!
    What, really fat? ;)
  • Reply 71 of 76
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,695member

    Does anyone else think that the firing of Scott Forstall did not help the improvement of maps or Siri? 

    Im sorry, I just think that his presence created conflict which resulted in people putting in their best efforts to show that their ideas were better. 
    Compared to now which their thinking is "good enough". 

    Cue, Federighi, Fadell, and Ive all hated him, but Steve kept him around because he knew that in order to show that your idea was better, you had to put in the effort. 

    In 4 years has maps improved to justify what they have done or are they now realizing they underestimated their timeline in competing with Google maps. 

    Remember, maps was created in haste after negotiations with Google were falling apart. 
    Google was not allowing the same features with maps on iOS compared to android. 
    The thing that Forstall showed the most effort in, at least publicly, was stupid shit like Passbook's "card shredder" animation. You could see it on his face when he demoed it that year. I'm assuming he put similar effort into getting that stupid reel-to-reel tape player interface in Podcasts. I know he did more than that, but asserting he put in more effort than the others you mentioned is absurd. Also, he was canned for NOT agreeing to apologize for NOT putting in enough effort into Maps before it was released!

    The fact he was hated as a divisive figure amongst so many others in a tight knit organization like the SVPs of Apple, in addition to blatant subordination, means firing him was the way to go. Just getting rid of the fucking stupid torn paper in Calendar was worth it to me. :) In my opinion, his firing and the advent of iOS 7 was a much needed and cathartic bandaid-ripping change that helped usher in the modernization of iOS. I saw someone using iOS 6 on an iPhone 4 the other day and for a second I felt like I was in the dark ages.

    Was he essential to Maps or Siri? Do you have any evidence to suggest he was? 

    Maps is miles better than it was back then. This is an even further re-build from the ground up to more vastly improve what's already been improved exponentially.
    Sorry -- it wasn't about "effort".   But nice strawman.
    And, under Steve, Apple was certainly not about being one big, harmonious family.   Quite the opposite in fact.  Today, under Tim, it is much closer to being one.  But thankfully, it isn't there yet.

    When "A Players" focus on product rather than their jobs, discord happens -- and things get done.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 72 of 76
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    Rayz2016 said:

    wood1208 said:
    When will that day come when I tell Siri, Direction->Source->destination->take these roads/route->Go ? Point is you know a route well traveled for you so telling Siri create custom route and Go.
    Why do you need directions for a route you already know well?

    Because it also gives you information on traffic conditions. Vital in Reading, where the traffic can suddenly clog up after the police have been chasing a kid on a scooter. Not so useful in London, which is always clogged up.
    Yeah, that occurred to me — but at that point don't you just ask Maps to give directions, and you can easily see the multiple routes provided and estimated times? Versus, hey Maps, I want to go this route exactly, tell me if I shouldn't, which ostensibly is the same thing.
    Yes, but it’s a bit more useful than that. 

    I can tell Apple Maps I’m heading to the office, and it can suggest alternative routes while I’m driving. So if there’s a traffic snarl up at my regular junction, Siri will suggest a change of route along with how much time it will save if I take it. 

    I was driving to Guildford once, and it suggested four route changes due to an accident which saved me 20 minutes though it added another 3 miles to the journey. 
    Alex1N
  • Reply 73 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 5,837member

    Does anyone else think that the firing of Scott Forstall did not help the improvement of maps or Siri? 

    Im sorry, I just think that his presence created conflict which resulted in people putting in their best efforts to show that their ideas were better. 
    Compared to now which their thinking is "good enough". 

    Cue, Federighi, Fadell, and Ive all hated him, but Steve kept him around because he knew that in order to show that your idea was better, you had to put in the effort. 

    In 4 years has maps improved to justify what they have done or are they now realizing they underestimated their timeline in competing with Google maps. 

    Remember, maps was created in haste after negotiations with Google were falling apart. 
    Google was not allowing the same features with maps on iOS compared to android. 
    The thing that Forstall showed the most effort in, at least publicly, was stupid shit like Passbook's "card shredder" animation. You could see it on his face when he demoed it that year. I'm assuming he put similar effort into getting that stupid reel-to-reel tape player interface in Podcasts. I know he did more than that, but asserting he put in more effort than the others you mentioned is absurd. Also, he was canned for NOT agreeing to apologize for NOT putting in enough effort into Maps before it was released!

    The fact he was hated as a divisive figure amongst so many others in a tight knit organization like the SVPs of Apple, in addition to blatant subordination, means firing him was the way to go. Just getting rid of the fucking stupid torn paper in Calendar was worth it to me. :) In my opinion, his firing and the advent of iOS 7 was a much needed and cathartic bandaid-ripping change that helped usher in the modernization of iOS. I saw someone using iOS 6 on an iPhone 4 the other day and for a second I felt like I was in the dark ages.

    Was he essential to Maps or Siri? Do you have any evidence to suggest he was? 

    Maps is miles better than it was back then. This is an even further re-build from the ground up to more vastly improve what's already been improved exponentially.
    Sorry -- it wasn't about "effort".   But nice strawman.
    And, under Steve, Apple was certainly not about being one big, harmonious family.   Quite the opposite in fact.  Today, under Tim, it is much closer to being one.  But thankfully, it isn't there yet.

    When "A Players" focus on product rather than their jobs, discord happens -- and things get done.
    The post I was responding to specifically called out “effort” multiple times, so it was about that. Not sure what you’re talking about. 

    Considering we’re literally talking about a product that failed to “get done” and resulted in the person in question getting fired from his job, I have no idea what you’re trying to say. 
    Alex1NRayz2016
  • Reply 74 of 76
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member

    Does anyone else think that the firing of Scott Forstall did not help the improvement of maps or Siri? 

    Im sorry, I just think that his presence created conflict which resulted in people putting in their best efforts to show that their ideas were better. 
    Compared to now which their thinking is "good enough". 

    Cue, Federighi, Fadell, and Ive all hated him, but Steve kept him around because he knew that in order to show that your idea was better, you had to put in the effort. 

    In 4 years has maps improved to justify what they have done or are they now realizing they underestimated their timeline in competing with Google maps. 

    Remember, maps was created in haste after negotiations with Google were falling apart. 
    Google was not allowing the same features with maps on iOS compared to android. 
    The thing that Forstall showed the most effort in, at least publicly, was stupid shit like Passbook's "card shredder" animation. You could see it on his face when he demoed it that year. I'm assuming he put similar effort into getting that stupid reel-to-reel tape player interface in Podcasts. I know he did more than that, but asserting he put in more effort than the others you mentioned is absurd. Also, he was canned for NOT agreeing to apologize for NOT putting in enough effort into Maps before it was released!

    The fact he was hated as a divisive figure amongst so many others in a tight knit organization like the SVPs of Apple, in addition to blatant subordination, means firing him was the way to go. Just getting rid of the fucking stupid torn paper in Calendar was worth it to me. :) In my opinion, his firing and the advent of iOS 7 was a much needed and cathartic bandaid-ripping change that helped usher in the modernization of iOS. I saw someone using iOS 6 on an iPhone 4 the other day and for a second I felt like I was in the dark ages.

    Was he essential to Maps or Siri? Do you have any evidence to suggest he was? 

    Maps is miles better than it was back then. This is an even further re-build from the ground up to more vastly improve what's already been improved exponentially.
    Sorry -- it wasn't about "effort".   But nice strawman.
    And, under Steve, Apple was certainly not about being one big, harmonious family.   Quite the opposite in fact.  Today, under Tim, it is much closer to being one.  But thankfully, it isn't there yet.

    When "A Players" focus on product rather than their jobs, discord happens -- and things get done.

    Ah, so you worked for Steve Jobs, yes?
    Alex1Ncornchip
  • Reply 75 of 76
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,865member
    No amount of 3rd party data is ever going to match Google unless someone starts and PoI database to rival it. Google can crawl the web for a first-pass and then get updates, something no one else is doing (Bing?).

    A simple example: There are about four Tim Horten's within two miles of my house. Maps knows only two of them. This is not good enough.
    Then add them. I add stuff to maps all the time. It’s updated within 5 business days.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 76 of 76
    Alex1NAlex1N Posts: 49member
    I added a name to an un-labelled feature in Holyrood Park in Edinburgh some months ago - it has still to show up. On the other hand, I updated a local address here in Western Sydney recently, and it came online within a couple of days, including texts (or emails?) to announce that the update had been made.

    Maybe it depends on what one is updating in relation to locality as to what gets updated and when. And whether the feature is new or not.
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