Apple refreshes MacBook Pro with six-core processors, 32GB of RAM

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  • Reply 201 of 236
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,209administrator
    melgross said:
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.

    there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
    Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.

    I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.

    Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
    It's almost like Apple has been trying this for decades!

    anome
  • Reply 202 of 236
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,587member

    melgross said:
    [...] I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.

    while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to.
    The problem isn't developing a new mindset that accommodates a new method of interaction. Rather, it's a question of whether THIS particular method offers enough reason to bother. A decade ago Apple's multi-touch trackpad also required learning new ways of doing things, but it was worth it because the new ways enhanced productivity. I'm not sure the Touch Bar does.

    Personally I'm indifferent towards it. I don't object to it being there, but I wouldn't care if it went away. At this point it just seems like an awful lot of feathers but not much chicken. Maybe it will get better, but it seems like wasting time and energy on an half-solution when a better approach already exists.
  • Reply 203 of 236
    nhtnht Posts: 4,402member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    wood1208 said:
    wood1208 said:
    What a stupid thing Apple did. My heart almost stop when I read the function key Macbook Pro was not updated... Are you in sain ??? You were suppose to have completely remove the mistake made in past of implementing useless touch strip.
    It’s insane and it’s called a Touch Bar. Learn how to spell.
    What's a difference ? touch bar or strip or stupid OLED strip or whatever is called !!! To me and millions Macbook Pro users, it is useless. I rather have cheaper or other upgrade than touch bar.
    No it is not a stupid OLED strip. It is a complete subsystem including Touch ID, Apple Pay, T2 chip, the Facetime camera... A stupid PC laptop’s camera may be remotely hacked and seized, Facetime camera not, because it is securely operated by the T2 chip.
    The main point he was trying to get across was that it would be nice to have an option without the considerable added expense those elements carry. For the 15" model you will get them whether you need them or not and now, even the 2015 options have been retired.

    I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
    I remember very well the reaction to the first Mac 128. There was outrage in the PC DOS community. It took until Windows 3.0, and then, soon after, for the network version 3.1, before much of that outrage subsided. Nothing that Apple did was considered to be good.

    well, I see the same thing here every time a new interface comes out. I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.

    while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to. Like everything new in this area, it will take time for most developers to learn how to use it well. It will take some users time too. Apple will improve it over the years, and has already broadened the use model over what it was at first, which is the way Apple always does things.

    in a few years, all the controversy will have died down, and a few years later, most people won’t even be aware that there was a controversy. That’s history repeating itself.
    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    A lot of developers have picked up on it. But it takes years to get fully utilized.
    Lol, I've been busy and only just looked in on the forums and it's expected that the folks complaining before are still complaining today despite getting what they wanted (32 GB).

    As far as the TB goes, I like it but to make it more useful I need an external keyboard with at TB...I would be disappointed to lose touchID if the authentication wouldn't work but I've found the TB handy for the apps that support it that I would prefer a keyboard with a TB minus touchID than not to have the option.

    Since I am the owner of a 2016 TB I'm far more qualified to provide an opinion on the return of the TB over someone who hasn't bought a Mac in a decade.
  • Reply 204 of 236
    avon b7 said:

    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    I doubt it adds much to the overall cost of the machine since it's piggybacked on to the USB-C port. Thunderbolt-3 is also royalty free, so it's the manufacturing costs.

    I don't honestly think most people understand all the things that TB-3 does. It's nothing like USB, Firewire, aDC or whatever, because it supports multiple protocols.

    I have a TB-1 2013 MBP, I bought a TB-2 dongle which now let's me connect to any TB-3 device and it's given my 2013 MBP a new life. Instead of begin limited to the 5gbps USB-A ports, I now have access to 20gbps (the TB-1 max) over a single port. Everything I own is connected through that one cable to include a several RAIDs, monitor, ethernet and a card reader.

    And guess what, my 2011 13" MBP also has a TB-1 port! Yes, 2011 with it's lonely 800mbps Firewire port and 480mbps USB-A. An old machine, new again!

    Technology Features

    • Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and power on USB-C
    • USB-C connector and cables (small, reversible)
    • 40 Gbps Thunderbolt™ 3 – double the speed of Thunderbolt 2
      • Bi-directional, dual-protocol (PCI Express and DisplayPort)
      • 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3
      • 8 lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 and MST)
        • Supports two 4K displays (4096 x 2160 30bpp @ 60 Hz)
    • USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) – compatible with existing USB devices and cables
    • DisplayPort 1.2 – compatible with existing DisplayPort displays, devices, and cables
      • Connect DVI, HDMI, and VGA displays via adapters
    • Power (based on USB power delivery)
      • Up to 100W system charging
      • 15W to bus-powered devices
    • Thunderbolt™ Networking
      • 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers
      • Daisy chaining (up to six devices)
      • Lowest latency for PCI Express audio recording



    edited July 2018
  • Reply 205 of 236
    melgross said:
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.

    there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
    Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.

    I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.

    Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
    It's almost like Apple has been trying this for decades!

    It's an INTEL standard and INTEL is no longer charging a royalty for it as of TB-3.

    It's also INTEL that combined TB-3 with USB-C (USB-A), not Apple.

    Go on to Amazon and type Thunderbolt under Electronic: Computers and Accessories. You'll get 10,000 result over 400 pages.

    Go on to Amazon and type Thunderbolt under Electronic: Computers and Tablets. You'll get 4,000 results over 240 pages (Apple, Dell, Levono, HP, Asus, Sprectra, MSI, etc,.)

    It's pretty much showing up on all the PRO gear and easily into the PROSUMER range. There really isn't anything comparable to TB-3 in the mobile space, either in speed or flexibility, since it handles multiple protocols and 100W of laptop charging power for the battery.


    edited July 2018 gatorguy
  • Reply 206 of 236
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    melgross said:
    right before Jobs came back to Apple, he was asked about what he would do if he was running Apple again. His answer? “I would milk the Mac for all it was worth, then I’d go on to the next big thing.”
    I know what he said. They’re now milking it without a “next thing” in place. No, iOS can’t replace a computer. We’re nearly a decade away from that being the case, and it will never be able to replace screen sizes.
  • Reply 207 of 236
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,320member
    avon b7 said:

    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    I doubt it adds much to the overall cost of the machine since it's piggybacked on to the USB-C port. Thunderbolt-3 is also royalty free, so it's the manufacturing costs.

    I don't honestly think most people understand all the things that TB-3 does. It's nothing like USB, Firewire, aDC or whatever, because it supports multiple protocols.

    I have a TB-1 2013 MBP, I bought a TB-2 dongle which now let's me connect to any TB-3 device and it's given my 2013 MBP a new life. Instead of begin limited to the 5gbps USB-A ports, I now have access to 20gbps (the TB-1 max) over a single port. Everything I own is connected through that one cable to include a several RAIDs, monitor, ethernet and a card reader.

    And guess what, my 2011 13" MBP also has a TB-1 port! Yes, 2011 with it's lonely 800mbps Firewire port and 480mbps USB-A. An old machine, new again!

    Technology Features

    • Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and power on USB-C
    • USB-C connector and cables (small, reversible)
    • 40 Gbps Thunderbolt™ 3 – double the speed of Thunderbolt 2
      • Bi-directional, dual-protocol (PCI Express and DisplayPort)
      • 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3
      • 8 lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 and MST)
        • Supports two 4K displays (4096 x 2160 30bpp @ 60 Hz)
    • USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) – compatible with existing USB devices and cables
    • DisplayPort 1.2 – compatible with existing DisplayPort displays, devices, and cables
      • Connect DVI, HDMI, and VGA displays via adapters
    • Power (based on USB power delivery)
      • Up to 100W system charging
      • 15W to bus-powered devices
    • Thunderbolt™ Networking
      • 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers
      • Daisy chaining (up to six devices)
      • Lowest latency for PCI Express audio recording



    The TB I was referring to was TouchBar, although I'm not anti Thunderbolt either.
  • Reply 208 of 236
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,209administrator
    melgross said:
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.

    there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
    Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.

    I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.

    Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
    It's almost like Apple has been trying this for decades!

    It's an INTEL standard and INTEL is no longer charging a royalty for it as of TB-3.

    It's also INTEL that combined TB-3 with USB-C (USB-A), not Apple.

    Go on to Amazon and type Thunderbolt under Electronic: Computers and Accessories. You'll get 10,000 result over 400 pages.

    Go on to Amazon and type Thunderbolt under Electronic: Computers and Tablets. You'll get 4,000 results over 240 pages (Apple, Dell, Levono, HP, Asus, Sprectra, MSI, etc,.)

    It's pretty much showing up on all the PRO gear and easily into the PROSUMER range. There really isn't anything comparable to TB-3 in the mobile space, either in speed or flexibility, since it handles multiple protocols and 100W of laptop charging power for the battery.


    1) They still are. It goes royalty free at some point this year. As of this moment, it still bears a licensing fee.
    2) You might want to look up who Intel has worked with on Light Peak and Thunderbolt to develop the standard. (Hint: it's Apple). Related, you'll find Apple on the USB-IF list of main members.
    3) I'm aware that there are loads of Thunderbolt 3 peripherals.
    4) I'm not sure why you're cranky at me about it.

    In my opinion TB3 is the way to go. It is an amazing cable standard, and has mostly eliminated the cable soup on my desktop that I've had for decades.
    edited July 2018
  • Reply 209 of 236
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,464member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    I doubt it adds much to the overall cost of the machine since it's piggybacked on to the USB-C port. Thunderbolt-3 is also royalty free, so it's the manufacturing costs.

    I don't honestly think most people understand all the things that TB-3 does. It's nothing like USB, Firewire, aDC or whatever, because it supports multiple protocols.

    I have a TB-1 2013 MBP, I bought a TB-2 dongle which now let's me connect to any TB-3 device and it's given my 2013 MBP a new life. Instead of begin limited to the 5gbps USB-A ports, I now have access to 20gbps (the TB-1 max) over a single port. Everything I own is connected through that one cable to include a several RAIDs, monitor, ethernet and a card reader.

    And guess what, my 2011 13" MBP also has a TB-1 port! Yes, 2011 with it's lonely 800mbps Firewire port and 480mbps USB-A. An old machine, new again!

    Technology Features

    • Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and power on USB-C
    • USB-C connector and cables (small, reversible)
    • 40 Gbps Thunderbolt™ 3 – double the speed of Thunderbolt 2
      • Bi-directional, dual-protocol (PCI Express and DisplayPort)
      • 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3
      • 8 lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 and MST)
        • Supports two 4K displays (4096 x 2160 30bpp @ 60 Hz)
    • USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) – compatible with existing USB devices and cables
    • DisplayPort 1.2 – compatible with existing DisplayPort displays, devices, and cables
      • Connect DVI, HDMI, and VGA displays via adapters
    • Power (based on USB power delivery)
      • Up to 100W system charging
      • 15W to bus-powered devices
    • Thunderbolt™ Networking
      • 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers
      • Daisy chaining (up to six devices)
      • Lowest latency for PCI Express audio recording



    The TB I was referring to was TouchBar, although I'm not anti Thunderbolt either.
    Avon,

    There isn't anyone except yourself here that is using TB in the context of the Touch Bar; too easy to confuse with TB-2 and TB-3 Thunderbolt in conversations. I'd back away from that. As you can see above, it is confusing.


    StrangeDays
  • Reply 210 of 236
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,887member
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    It has USB. You can buy a magsafe cable (but you won’t), and if you need consumer grade memory card reader on the Pro laptop, you can get one and plug it in. 
  • Reply 211 of 236
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,887member
    entropys said:
    I have come to believe Cook is a Mac hater. his behaviour implies this is true. The future in Cook world is iOS.  And no doubt to demonstrably ‘prove’ hardly anyone actually wanted 32GB of RAM, he made the upgrade price so egrariously offensive only the most desperate die hard could invent a reason to justify it.
    Certainly Cook doesn’t like the Mac. I can’t see how anyone could question that.
    Anyone living in reality and not a paranoid fantasy land could question that silly narrative. 
  • Reply 212 of 236
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    I doubt it adds much to the overall cost of the machine since it's piggybacked on to the USB-C port. Thunderbolt-3 is also royalty free, so it's the manufacturing costs.

    I don't honestly think most people understand all the things that TB-3 does. It's nothing like USB, Firewire, aDC or whatever, because it supports multiple protocols.

    I have a TB-1 2013 MBP, I bought a TB-2 dongle which now let's me connect to any TB-3 device and it's given my 2013 MBP a new life. Instead of begin limited to the 5gbps USB-A ports, I now have access to 20gbps (the TB-1 max) over a single port. Everything I own is connected through that one cable to include a several RAIDs, monitor, ethernet and a card reader.

    And guess what, my 2011 13" MBP also has a TB-1 port! Yes, 2011 with it's lonely 800mbps Firewire port and 480mbps USB-A. An old machine, new again!

    Technology Features

    • Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and power on USB-C
    • USB-C connector and cables (small, reversible)
    • 40 Gbps Thunderbolt™ 3 – double the speed of Thunderbolt 2
      • Bi-directional, dual-protocol (PCI Express and DisplayPort)
      • 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3
      • 8 lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 and MST)
        • Supports two 4K displays (4096 x 2160 30bpp @ 60 Hz)
    • USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) – compatible with existing USB devices and cables
    • DisplayPort 1.2 – compatible with existing DisplayPort displays, devices, and cables
      • Connect DVI, HDMI, and VGA displays via adapters
    • Power (based on USB power delivery)
      • Up to 100W system charging
      • 15W to bus-powered devices
    • Thunderbolt™ Networking
      • 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers
      • Daisy chaining (up to six devices)
      • Lowest latency for PCI Express audio recording



    The TB I was referring to was TouchBar, although I'm not anti Thunderbolt either.
    Avon,

    There isn't anyone except yourself here that is using TB in the context of the Touch Bar; too easy to confuse with TB-2 and TB-3 Thunderbolt in conversations. I'd back away from that. As you can see above, it is confusing.


    Exactly

    TB = Thunderbolt
  • Reply 213 of 236
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,320member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    I doubt it adds much to the overall cost of the machine since it's piggybacked on to the USB-C port. Thunderbolt-3 is also royalty free, so it's the manufacturing costs.

    I don't honestly think most people understand all the things that TB-3 does. It's nothing like USB, Firewire, aDC or whatever, because it supports multiple protocols.

    I have a TB-1 2013 MBP, I bought a TB-2 dongle which now let's me connect to any TB-3 device and it's given my 2013 MBP a new life. Instead of begin limited to the 5gbps USB-A ports, I now have access to 20gbps (the TB-1 max) over a single port. Everything I own is connected through that one cable to include a several RAIDs, monitor, ethernet and a card reader.

    And guess what, my 2011 13" MBP also has a TB-1 port! Yes, 2011 with it's lonely 800mbps Firewire port and 480mbps USB-A. An old machine, new again!

    Technology Features

    • Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and power on USB-C
    • USB-C connector and cables (small, reversible)
    • 40 Gbps Thunderbolt™ 3 – double the speed of Thunderbolt 2
      • Bi-directional, dual-protocol (PCI Express and DisplayPort)
      • 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3
      • 8 lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 and MST)
        • Supports two 4K displays (4096 x 2160 30bpp @ 60 Hz)
    • USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) – compatible with existing USB devices and cables
    • DisplayPort 1.2 – compatible with existing DisplayPort displays, devices, and cables
      • Connect DVI, HDMI, and VGA displays via adapters
    • Power (based on USB power delivery)
      • Up to 100W system charging
      • 15W to bus-powered devices
    • Thunderbolt™ Networking
      • 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers
      • Daisy chaining (up to six devices)
      • Lowest latency for PCI Express audio recording



    The TB I was referring to was TouchBar, although I'm not anti Thunderbolt either.
    Avon,

    There isn't anyone except yourself here that is using TB in the context of the Touch Bar; too easy to confuse with TB-2 and TB-3 Thunderbolt in conversations. I'd back away from that. As you can see above, it is confusing.


    Exactly

    TB = Thunderbolt
    Well, yes. It's unfortunate that we have three TBs:

    TB = TeraByte
    TB = ThunderBolt
    TB = TouchBar

    Context should be more than enough to distinguish the use.

    In this thread all three have been used and all three in clear context. Rofigan used it first in this thread referring to Touch Bar.

    My use was in a reply to Melross (who I quoted in full in my post). He made a specific reference in that quote to the 'Touch Bar'. 

    From then on I used 'TB' in my reply. Context was clear but yes, misinterpretations can happen, but in this particular case the context was very clear.

    Nht also used TB and again the context was crystal clear.
    edited July 2018 gatorguy
  • Reply 214 of 236
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,464member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:

    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    I doubt it adds much to the overall cost of the machine since it's piggybacked on to the USB-C port. Thunderbolt-3 is also royalty free, so it's the manufacturing costs.

    I don't honestly think most people understand all the things that TB-3 does. It's nothing like USB, Firewire, aDC or whatever, because it supports multiple protocols.

    I have a TB-1 2013 MBP, I bought a TB-2 dongle which now let's me connect to any TB-3 device and it's given my 2013 MBP a new life. Instead of begin limited to the 5gbps USB-A ports, I now have access to 20gbps (the TB-1 max) over a single port. Everything I own is connected through that one cable to include a several RAIDs, monitor, ethernet and a card reader.

    And guess what, my 2011 13" MBP also has a TB-1 port! Yes, 2011 with it's lonely 800mbps Firewire port and 480mbps USB-A. An old machine, new again!

    Technology Features

    • Thunderbolt™, USB, DisplayPort, and power on USB-C
    • USB-C connector and cables (small, reversible)
    • 40 Gbps Thunderbolt™ 3 – double the speed of Thunderbolt 2
      • Bi-directional, dual-protocol (PCI Express and DisplayPort)
      • 4 lanes of PCI Express Gen 3
      • 8 lanes of DisplayPort 1.2 (HBR2 and MST)
        • Supports two 4K displays (4096 x 2160 30bpp @ 60 Hz)
    • USB 3.1 (10 Gbps) – compatible with existing USB devices and cables
    • DisplayPort 1.2 – compatible with existing DisplayPort displays, devices, and cables
      • Connect DVI, HDMI, and VGA displays via adapters
    • Power (based on USB power delivery)
      • Up to 100W system charging
      • 15W to bus-powered devices
    • Thunderbolt™ Networking
      • 10Gb Ethernet connection between computers
      • Daisy chaining (up to six devices)
      • Lowest latency for PCI Express audio recording



    The TB I was referring to was TouchBar, although I'm not anti Thunderbolt either.
    Avon,

    There isn't anyone except yourself here that is using TB in the context of the Touch Bar; too easy to confuse with TB-2 and TB-3 Thunderbolt in conversations. I'd back away from that. As you can see above, it is confusing.


    Exactly

    TB = Thunderbolt
    Well, yes. It's unfortunate that we have three TBs:

    TB = TeraByte
    TB = ThunderBolt
    TB = TouchBar

    Context should be more than enough to distinguish the use.

    In this thread all three have been used and all three in clear context. Rofigan used it first in this thread referring to Touch Bar.

    My use was in a reply to Melross (who I quoted in full in my post). He made a specific reference in that quote to the 'Touch Bar'. 

    From then on I used 'TB' in my reply. Context was clear but yes, misinterpretations can happen, but in this particular case the context was very clear.

    Nht also used TB and again the context was crystal clear.
    Whatever....
  • Reply 215 of 236
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,409member
    melgross said:
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.

    there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
    Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.

    I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.

    Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
    Every time there’s a changeover in some standard, people get out of shape about it. Yeah, for a few people it’s dongle “hell”. For most of us it’s just another day.

    unless Intel changes the TB port again, whenever TB 4 comes out, the rationalization of usb and TB ports will kill other connectors, and most of these problems will go away. But there are people who can’t think of this. I don’t know why. Their current annoyance overwhelms their rationality.
    tmayRayz2016
  • Reply 216 of 236
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 6,887member
    melgross said:
    melgross said:
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.

    there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
    Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.

    I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.

    Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
    Every time there’s a changeover in some standard, people get out of shape about it. Yeah, for a few people it’s dongle “hell”. For most of us it’s just another day.

    unless Intel changes the TB port again, whenever TB 4 comes out, the rationalization of usb and TB ports will kill other connectors, and most of these problems will go away. But there are people who can’t think of this. I don’t know why. Their current annoyance overwhelms their rationality.
    Because for these people hating on Apple is tantamount. They are eternal victims, wronged by a consumer goods corporation. 
  • Reply 217 of 236
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,409member

    melgross said:
    [...] I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.

    while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to.
    The problem isn't developing a new mindset that accommodates a new method of interaction. Rather, it's a question of whether THIS particular method offers enough reason to bother. A decade ago Apple's multi-touch trackpad also required learning new ways of doing things, but it was worth it because the new ways enhanced productivity. I'm not sure the Touch Bar does.

    Personally I'm indifferent towards it. I don't object to it being there, but I wouldn't care if it went away. At this point it just seems like an awful lot of feathers but not much chicken. Maybe it will get better, but it seems like wasting time and energy on an half-solution when a better approach already exists.
    There are many people who really like the Touchbar. You don’t. I get that. But because you don’t, you’re fishing for some reason to rationalize that feeling. I get that too. The reality is that the touchbar is far more versatile than fixed keys. I have some very expensive test equipment, and everything I bought 15 years ago and newer, has the equivalent of a touchbar. Why? Because it’s far more useful that fixed keys. It changes contextually, which is a major advantage. So you, and others don’t like it. Fine. But your statement about it not being useful enough simply isn’t true.
    tmay
  • Reply 218 of 236
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,409member
    nht said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    wood1208 said:
    wood1208 said:
    What a stupid thing Apple did. My heart almost stop when I read the function key Macbook Pro was not updated... Are you in sain ??? You were suppose to have completely remove the mistake made in past of implementing useless touch strip.
    It’s insane and it’s called a Touch Bar. Learn how to spell.
    What's a difference ? touch bar or strip or stupid OLED strip or whatever is called !!! To me and millions Macbook Pro users, it is useless. I rather have cheaper or other upgrade than touch bar.
    No it is not a stupid OLED strip. It is a complete subsystem including Touch ID, Apple Pay, T2 chip, the Facetime camera... A stupid PC laptop’s camera may be remotely hacked and seized, Facetime camera not, because it is securely operated by the T2 chip.
    The main point he was trying to get across was that it would be nice to have an option without the considerable added expense those elements carry. For the 15" model you will get them whether you need them or not and now, even the 2015 options have been retired.

    I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
    I remember very well the reaction to the first Mac 128. There was outrage in the PC DOS community. It took until Windows 3.0, and then, soon after, for the network version 3.1, before much of that outrage subsided. Nothing that Apple did was considered to be good.

    well, I see the same thing here every time a new interface comes out. I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.

    while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to. Like everything new in this area, it will take time for most developers to learn how to use it well. It will take some users time too. Apple will improve it over the years, and has already broadened the use model over what it was at first, which is the way Apple always does things.

    in a few years, all the controversy will have died down, and a few years later, most people won’t even be aware that there was a controversy. That’s history repeating itself.
    The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.

    On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone. 

    Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).

    I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
    A lot of developers have picked up on it. But it takes years to get fully utilized.
    Lol, I've been busy and only just looked in on the forums and it's expected that the folks complaining before are still complaining today despite getting what they wanted (32 GB).

    As far as the TB goes, I like it but to make it more useful I need an external keyboard with at TB...I would be disappointed to lose touchID if the authentication wouldn't work but I've found the TB handy for the apps that support it that I would prefer a keyboard with a TB minus touchID than not to have the option.

    Since I am the owner of a 2016 TB I'm far more qualified to provide an opinion on the return of the TB over someone who hasn't bought a Mac in a decade.
    I agree.
  • Reply 219 of 236
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,409member
    melgross said:
    right before Jobs came back to Apple, he was asked about what he would do if he was running Apple again. His answer? “I would milk the Mac for all it was worth, then I’d go on to the next big thing.”
    I know what he said. They’re now milking it without a “next thing” in place. No, iOS can’t replace a computer. We’re nearly a decade away from that being the case, and it will never be able to replace screen sizes.
    Your mistake is in thinking that Jobs cared whether iOS replaces your Desktop. He made it very clear that for those who need trucks, the Desktop would remain. But as we do know, already 75% of consumer computing is being done on smartphones and tablets.

    as great example is the new Adobe initiative of first putting Photoshop on the iPad, then Illustrator, and eventually, the entire CC Suite. Microsoft already has the full Office suite on iOS. Others are following. And what was the reason Adobe gave for this? They said it was because more and more of their professional users were moving to iPads from notebooks, and DEMANDED that Adobe do this. Follow your customers, or you die.

    and please, stop being so obstructive, or naive about it. Every iOS device is a computer. My iPhone, Core for Core, is already more powerful than my 2012 Mac Pro with its two Xenon 3.47GHz cores. And that’s the 7+. My 2nd gen iPad Pro 12.9” is even more powerful. I’ve done comparisons with the same files, and my iPad often beats my 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD equipped 2012 Mac Pro.

    since 75% of all computers bought these days are notebooks, and about half of those have 13” screens with lower Rez than my iPad, I can say that you really aren’t speaking about facts, just what you wish is true.

    nobody is saying that an iPad has to replace a 12 Core Desktop with 27” screen in order to be a perfectly good computer, other than those who just can’t bring themselves out of their rut.
    edited July 2018 tmayRayz2016
  • Reply 220 of 236
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,409member

    melgross said:
    johnbear said:
    Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade

    Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.

    there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
    Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.

    I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.

    Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
    It's almost like Apple has been trying this for decades!

    It's an INTEL standard and INTEL is no longer charging a royalty for it as of TB-3.

    It's also INTEL that combined TB-3 with USB-C (USB-A), not Apple.

    Go on to Amazon and type Thunderbolt under Electronic: Computers and Accessories. You'll get 10,000 result over 400 pages.

    Go on to Amazon and type Thunderbolt under Electronic: Computers and Tablets. You'll get 4,000 results over 240 pages (Apple, Dell, Levono, HP, Asus, Sprectra, MSI, etc,.)

    It's pretty much showing up on all the PRO gear and easily into the PROSUMER range. There really isn't anything comparable to TB-3 in the mobile space, either in speed or flexibility, since it handles multiple protocols and 100W of laptop charging power for the battery.


    1) They still are. It goes royalty free at some point this year. As of this moment, it still bears a licensing fee.
    2) You might want to look up who Intel has worked with on Light Peak and Thunderbolt to develop the standard. (Hint: it's Apple). Related, you'll find Apple on the USB-IF list of main members.
    3) I'm aware that there are loads of Thunderbolt 3 peripherals.
    4) I'm not sure why you're cranky at me about it.

    In my opinion TB3 is the way to go. It is an amazing cable standard, and has mostly eliminated the cable soup on my desktop that I've had for decades.
    What interests me is the potential we still aren’t getting. I don’t know how may people remember, but as they announced this, Intel said that in a decade, TB would reach 100Gb speeds. They are behind schedule, but I’m still hoping that we’ll see TB 4 next year (it would be at the right time), and that reasons for the new Mac Pro waiting until 2019 is because of PCI 4 and TB 4. Maybe a 60Gbs speed would be the next step, along with other improvements.

    if we get to 100Gbs, or possibly somewhat higher, that would open up possibilities. Right now, we see internal pci SSDs that are easily hitting 2,500 GB/s. A couple are approaching 3,000. Since TB is part of the PCI bus, I’d like to see a small external raid box with 4 connectors for these drive boards. With 4 of these drives we could hit almost 12GB/s today, if the bandwidth were there. In two three years we could see these drives hitting 4GB/s speeds from those in the industry I know who work on this. So even a 2 connector box could bring 8GB/s speeds. These speeds would change the way we look at storage, and real-time usage of it.
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