Where is Apple's innovative iPad, MacBook Pro hardware to rival Microsoft's Surface?

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 89
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,400member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    edited July 2018 williamlondon
  • Reply 82 of 89
    danvm said:

    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.
    Yes, but not just the Surface, *any* MS product or MS-related product (i.e. things that run Windoze). I don't come here to read about how you love, love, love MS, its products and the hardware its crappy software runs on, always implying that Apple is criminal selling to idiots and MS is godlike and never immoral and its customers are highly intelligent always choosing the *right* hardware/software - it's offensive, insulting and so utterly absurd.

    The problem is that you're a MS shill and promoting their products over Apple products on this kind of blog is unwelcome to say the least. It's obvious what you prefer, hint: it's not Apple. You can come up with all the excuses you think are valid and logical to continue your charade, but the fact is that I don't come here to learn more about how and why you think Apple products are inferior. Can you take a step back and just try and understand how your attitude might come across and why people here on this blog might take issue with it?
  • Reply 83 of 89
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    You're like a guy who brings pork rinds to a kosher health food convention, and then chides everyone for not trying your pork rinds first before saying they don't want any.
    williamlondon
  • Reply 84 of 89
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,400member
    danvm said:

    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.
    Yes, but not just the Surface, *any* MS product or MS-related product (i.e. things that run Windoze).

    If you don't like posts about Surface, MS or MS-related products, why you click in this article that was related to the Surface?  Maybe you should be more specific, like you don't like posts or articles that praise or show benefits of Surface, MS or MS-related products over Apple or Apple devices.  Am I right?
    I don't come here to read about how you love, love, love MS, its products and the hardware its crappy software runs on, always implying that Apple is criminal selling to idiots and MS is godlike and never immoral and its customers are highly intelligent always choosing the *right* hardware/software - it's offensive, insulting and so utterly absurd.
    I had never posted the things you mentioned. 
    The problem is that you're a MS shill and promoting their products over Apple products on this kind of blog is unwelcome to say the least. It's obvious what you prefer, hint: it's not Apple. You can come up with all the excuses you think are valid and logical to continue your charade, but the fact is that I don't come here to learn more about how and why you think Apple products are inferior. Can you take a step back and just try and understand how your attitude might come across and why people here on this blog might take issue with it?

    I consider myself, not an MS shill as you said, but an Apple customer, same as with MS.  I have zero issues criticizing Apple or MS.  And my posts are based in my experience with my devices from both companies.  And I don't think MS devices are better or worst (inferior, as you said) than Apple devices.  There are cases where Apple devices are a better option, and others were MS solutions are better. For example, the MBP has a 45W TDP Intel processor, a better trackpad, it's thinner and ligher than a SurfaceBook.  But the SurfaceBook has a higher resolution screen, a discreet GPU in the 13.5" model, Windows Hello (similar to FaceID) and better keyboard.  The iPad is lighter, has better battery life and far more apps than a Surface Pro.  But the Surface Pro has a better keyboard + trackpad when using in vertical position, Windows Hello and it's a better desktop/laptop replacement than an iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard.  It's easy to see that both devices excel one over the other in different areas, and there is no perfect device.  If you notice, I left out the OS (macOS / Windows), because most of the time, it's a matter of preference or it's just what you need to complete your workflow. 

    And that's my point of my post.  People criticize the Surface (many times even without work with one) for being a hybrid device (2-in1) but in the real world, it does many things better than an iPad and MBP, while it fails at others.  If the Surface it's an inferior device because for being a 2-in-1, why the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard is different, when you have to use it in a similar way as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?

    Is this explanation (or excuse as you said) logical enough for you?  Maybe you should read my posts more objectively and take them less personal, since I never post with the purpose to attack other opinions. 




    edited July 2018
  • Reply 85 of 89
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,400member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    You're like a guy who brings pork rinds to a kosher health food convention, and then chides everyone for not trying your pork rinds first before saying they don't want any.
    You got the wrong comparison.  DED was the one who bring pork to the convention, not me.  See the title of the editorial / article.  I just asked a question and comment on what you already had on the table.  ;)
    edited July 2018 williamlondon
  • Reply 86 of 89
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    You're like a guy who brings pork rinds to a kosher health food convention, and then chides everyone for not trying your pork rinds first before saying they don't want any.
    You got the wrong comparison.  DED was the one who bring pork to the convention, not me.  See the title of the editorial / article.  I just asked a question and comment on what you already had on the table.  ;)
    Ah, but no. DED wrote a tongue-in-cheek headline of ‘where’s all the pork at the kosher health food convention,’ above an editorial that explains why nobody wants any damn pork. Then you (predictably) chime in with praise for pork rinds, and as people say they’re not interested, you continue with ‘yes, but have you tried them?’

    So my completely hilarious metaphor works, you’re wrong, and nobody wants your pork rinds. 
    williamlondon
  • Reply 87 of 89
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,400member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    You're like a guy who brings pork rinds to a kosher health food convention, and then chides everyone for not trying your pork rinds first before saying they don't want any.
    You got the wrong comparison.  DED was the one who bring pork to the convention, not me.  See the title of the editorial / article.  I just asked a question and comment on what you already had on the table.  ;)
    Ah, but no. DED wrote a tongue-in-cheek headline of ‘where’s all the pork at the kosher health food convention,’ above an editorial that explains why nobody wants any damn pork. Then you (predictably) chime in with praise for pork rinds, and as people say they’re not interested, you continue with ‘yes, but have you tried them?’

    So my completely hilarious metaphor works, you’re wrong, and nobody wants your pork rinds. 
    Again, I didn't bring the Surface (or pork) to the conversation.  Your post and the article already were talking about the Surface.  You have posted many things, but still no answer to my question.  Do you think the same (inelegant and kludgy) when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
  • Reply 88 of 89
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,989member
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    You're like a guy who brings pork rinds to a kosher health food convention, and then chides everyone for not trying your pork rinds first before saying they don't want any.
    You got the wrong comparison.  DED was the one who bring pork to the convention, not me.  See the title of the editorial / article.  I just asked a question and comment on what you already had on the table.  ;)
    Ah, but no. DED wrote a tongue-in-cheek headline of ‘where’s all the pork at the kosher health food convention,’ above an editorial that explains why nobody wants any damn pork. Then you (predictably) chime in with praise for pork rinds, and as people say they’re not interested, you continue with ‘yes, but have you tried them?’

    So my completely hilarious metaphor works, you’re wrong, and nobody wants your pork rinds. 
    Again, I didn't bring the Surface (or pork) to the conversation.  Your post and the article already were talking about the Surface.  You have posted many things, but still no answer to my question.  Do you think the same (inelegant and kludgy) when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve been over this already. I’m not interested in your question. This is the last time I intend to respond to you (and help you generate your per-post income?), so if you want the last word, go ahead. If it’s a question, it will be left abandoned, flapping in the wind. So make it really profound, o.k..
    edited July 2018 williamlondon
  • Reply 89 of 89
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,400member
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    danvm said:
    AppleZulu said:
    ..
    Ok, so reality check.  I used both the Surface Book and a MacBook Pro and iPad w/Pencil.  I might as well just buy a MacBook Pro and an iPad w/Pencil and be done with it. Switch between the two devices as needed. The whole experience is much nicer.  Holistically speaking, macOS / iOS is so much smoother and more refined and the hardware works so well with it that using Microsoft solutions just feel kludgy and slapped together.  ...  
    This is the essence of it. MS Windows and Surface are trying too hard to put everything into a single device and to be all things to all people. The result is too often a single inelegant device that's not as good as either of the separate items. It seems like it ought to be brilliant, but it ends up just being "kludgy."

    Think of all the attempts to make a single vehicle that works as both a car and an airplane. It's a nifty concept, but the execution is, so far, always disappointing. As a car it's impractical, uncomfortable, and won't fit in your garage, and as an airplane, it's slow, hard to maneuver, has a small passenger compartment, and has a range not much better than a car. So it seems like it would be nice to go downstairs, pack the family into the flying car, zip across the country and upon arrival, skip the rental, but still be able to tool around town. But no, the flying cars so far are just expensive proofs that you could do it, sort of, but probably wouldn't want to.
    Do you think the same when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve had this conversation before. I’m not going to go any further than this to help you with your per-post fees to promote the Surface. Have a nice day.
    For some reason, you think that by posting positive things about the Surface I'm promoting the device, when in reality I'm just talking from my experience with a SP4.  Since you posted that Surface are "kludgy", that's based in your own experience?  How does it compares to an iPad + Smart Keyboard, that forces you work with a screen in vertical position with touch UI and apps?
    I’m saying you have a peculiar, longstanding and consistent pattern of coming to this Apple-focused forum specifically to praise and promote Microsoft and specifically Surface devices. Seems like an odd way to spend one’s time if one isn’t receiving some benefit for doing so. So no, I’m not going to take your bait and further debate the relative merits of the devices you’re here to promote. 
    So you don't like me to post about the Surface in this Apple forum.  Did you notice that in this Apple website, the editorial is about the Surface?  And what about your post about the Surface?  Should I think that your are receiving benefits from Apple for criticizing the Surface and praising Apple devices?  I hope you don't think that because this is an Apple website, we all should criticize non-Apple devices and praise everything Apple does. 

    I have devices from Apple and MS, so I talk from my experience with the devices I own, and I have no problem criticizing the bad things and praising the good things.  In this case, you criticize the Surface for being inelegant and kludgy trying to put everything in a single device.  Isn't that what Apple did when promoting the Apple + Smart Keyboard, a device designed for touch and try to make it work as a touchscreen laptop, but without trackpad?
    You're like a guy who brings pork rinds to a kosher health food convention, and then chides everyone for not trying your pork rinds first before saying they don't want any.
    You got the wrong comparison.  DED was the one who bring pork to the convention, not me.  See the title of the editorial / article.  I just asked a question and comment on what you already had on the table.  ;)
    Ah, but no. DED wrote a tongue-in-cheek headline of ‘where’s all the pork at the kosher health food convention,’ above an editorial that explains why nobody wants any damn pork. Then you (predictably) chime in with praise for pork rinds, and as people say they’re not interested, you continue with ‘yes, but have you tried them?’

    So my completely hilarious metaphor works, you’re wrong, and nobody wants your pork rinds. 
    Again, I didn't bring the Surface (or pork) to the conversation.  Your post and the article already were talking about the Surface.  You have posted many things, but still no answer to my question.  Do you think the same (inelegant and kludgy) when using an iPad with the Smart Keyboard with a touch screen in a vertical position?
    We’ve been over this already. I’m not interested in your question. This is the last time I intend to respond to you (and help you generate your per-post income?), so if you want the last word, go ahead. If it’s a question, it will be left abandoned, flapping in the wind. So make it really profound, o.k..
    Maybe you evade my question because the answer is obvious, the iPad + Smart Keyboard gives a similar experience compared to the Surface Pro, and maybe worst, since you are force to work with a touch UI and touch apps in a vertical screen, with no trackpad.  That doesn't means that the iPad is a bad device or that the Surface is better.  There are times where an iPad a better option and sometimes the SP does better.  Or do you really think that the iPad is the perfect device for every task?

    I posted my POV of Apple and MS devices a few lines above this.  Since I own devices both companies, I can post from my experience.  Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that you don't have a Surface device.  So why you posted about how bad it is if you don't had time working with it?  This could be another reason why you didn't answer my question, you have no experience working with a Surface Pro, and you didn't know how it works.

    There are times when other companies do better than Apple, and MS have done it a few times with the Surface line.  I think it's positive, since it keeps pushing Apple to do better, same as MS when Apple do better.  Don't you agree?
    williamlondon
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