My question would be whether Mac OS X is preferential to a connected eGPU over the internal GPU. Were that the case, It would seem to me that the CPU would take better advantage of the MBP's thermal management system.
This is really complicated, and dependent on the app -- unless the machine is in Clamshell mode connected to an external display.
Way, way more to come for testing, including workstation GPUs in an eGPU enclosure.
1) Thanks for doing a comparison of MagSafe v USB-C. That lines up with my anecdotal experience. I still can't understand why after decades of bellyaching about Apple using proprietary, unlicensed connection options that when Apple finally adopts one because it is inherently better that people still complain.
I would like to note that this will get buried in this review. May I suggest that you do a separate article detailing both MagSafe designs, USB-C (with Apple and 3rd-party cables), and the deep barrel connector they used prior. I'd also like to proffer that you use a pull force gauge so you can get accurate measurements that can be put into a chart.
2) Is the keyboard heating up because of the i9 under max load and/or the RAM? IOW, if you got the entry-level 15" MBP but with 32 GiB DDR4 RAM would you still have that same issue (i.e.: an issue for the entire 2018 15" MBP line in any configuration), mostly an issue with the Intel i9, or an issue with the i9 under load for extended periods of time (like when running benchmarks)?
3) Were you able to do any battery tests to see if the 2018 15" MBP with the larger battery was indeed inline with the 2017 15" MBP under the same load? I can imagine that under load the 2018 models may reduce their time more than the 2017 with the smaller battery, but if you can get more work done then it could offset that loss.
4) Since they kept the weight the same YoY while increasing the battery capacity (which one report shows that it's both larger and heavier than last year's battery—so it's not lighter battery tech) I assume they milled the top chassis even more to lose the weight and make the space. Since this makes up the structure of the MBP did you find this to be less durable, dissipate heat worse/better since it also acts as a heatsink, or any other potential problems with removing several ounces of aluminium from the frame? If not, have they really been wasting all metal and adding unneeded weight all these years, or do you think that they've engineered something stronger (like they did with the iPhone S series over the iPhone 6 series after Bendghazi)?
Along with: "Regarding MagSafe, we've been testing USB-C for a very long time at this point. On a melamine, Corian, or finished wood desk surface, the force required to pull out Apple's USB-C charging cable is about three-quarters of what it takes to break a MagSafe 2 connection, when the cable is pulled from less than a 40-degree angle from center on the horizontal plane, and less than 30 degrees from center on the vertical."
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
Holding out for Intel’s 10nm chips, plus a keyboard worth a damn. Also hope they can get that battery closer to 90 whr. I just remember converting from Dell to Mac in 2012 and the differences between the Dell and Mac that sold me were: - MagSafe (gone, couldn’t believe that the whole PC market didn’t use a similar design; now Apple killed a crazy practical option). - the keyboard (the new one sucks IMO) - the trackpad (the new and old one are fine, the best on the market, but I do like the click of my 2012 more) - the screen. (The new ones are as amazing as ever) - SSDs & aluminum body.
The GPUs in the MacBooks suck but having my desktop, high end GPUs aren’t important to me anymore.
I will miss the HDMI and USB 3.x ports. I don’t have a single USB C cable. It would be nice if the Touch Bar was optional. I’d ditch it a heartbeat, reminds me of the Galaxy S edge series, neat but not terribly useful. A gimmick to charge more for.
A great upgrade over the 2016/2017s though.
If you are holding out for 10nm Intel parts you have at least 2 years to wait -- likely longer. Intel has stated that they will have some CPUs at 10nm at the end of 2019. (they gave that assurance 2 years ago - so the likelihood of further delays cannot be discounted). So SOME CPUs may be available at the end of 2019, but the CPUs that Apple uses will NOT be available until likely late 2020 at the earliest (larger die CPUs, later, smaller ones earlier - until they get the rejected rates down to economics - it is exponential in nature when you talk about die size and associated reject rates). That is why with great financial results - Intel stock was hit after that announcement. You have at least 2 -- possibly 3 generations of Mac laptops until they will get chips for 10nm (other than maybe the Macbook 12").
Happy to wait. My desktop is a 2016 and laptop a 2012; the desktop does the heavy lifting now. Just not convinced, in my case, the current laptops are worth the upgrade while my 2012 keeps working great. I would be more willing to replace the MB and processor in my desktop for the 6 core setup.
On the Mac side, I am waiting until the modular Mac Pro is released to decide my mix on the Mac side of things. The Linux side I will probably have built out shortly (I expect to make a decision in August or September (based on my expected dates for parts being released).
For it’s power to price ratio, I reckon an i9 MacBook Pro is more a 3.5 out of 5 than a 4. The i7 version definitely a solid 4.
I've never been a big fan of a star-rating, for this reason alone. There is no such thing as a universal rating scale, a unilateral work case assessment, or a threshold for expense.
I'm sure this MBP is a 1/5 for somebody based on their own criteria. I'm also sure it's a 5/5 for others -- just not for me.
1) Thanks for doing a comparison of MagSafe v USB-C. That lines up with my anecdotal experience. I still can't understand why after decades of bellyaching about Apple using proprietary, unlicensed connection options that when Apple finally adopts one because it is inherently better that people still complain.
I would like to note that this will get buried in this review. May I suggest that you do a separate article detailing both MagSafe designs, USB-C (with Apple and 3rd-party cables), and the deep barrel connector they used prior. I'd also like to proffer that you use a pull force gauge so you can get accurate measurements that can be put into a chart.
2) Is the keyboard heating up because of the i9 under max load and/or the RAM? IOW, if you got the entry-level 15" MBP but with 32 GiB DDR4 RAM would you still have that same issue (i.e.: an issue for the entire 2018 15" MBP line in any configuration), mostly an issue with the Intel i9, or an issue with the i9 under load for extended periods of time (like when running benchmarks)?
3) Were you able to do any battery tests to see if the 2018 15" MBP with the larger battery was indeed inline with the 2017 15" MBP under the same load? I can imagine that under load the 2018 models may reduce their time more than the 2017 with the smaller battery, but if you can get more work done then it could offset that loss.
4) Since they kept the weight the same YoY while increasing the battery capacity (which one report shows that it's both larger and heavier than last year's battery—so it's not lighter battery tech) I assume they milled the top chassis even more to lose the weight and make the space. Since this makes up the structure of the MBP did you find this to be less durable, dissipate heat worse/better since it also acts as a heatsink, or any other potential problems with removing several ounces of aluminium from the frame? If not, have they really been wasting all metal and adding unneeded weight all these years, or do you think that they've engineered something stronger (like they did with the iPhone S series over the iPhone 6 series after Bendghazi)?
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
I'm sure force requirements for USB-C increase as you increase the angle, whereas MagSafe it may even be less tension because it can act like a fulcrum at one end to pull the magnet off the other. That's why I'd like to see a chart.
As they state in the article, if your cable is still going to be plugged in despite the all-day battery that didn't exist back before MagSafe and it will be a tripping hazard that could potentially pull your MBP to the floor there are plenty of 3rd-party options in which to choose from.
I’m curious what percentage of the buying public needs a laptop that has the same amount of power as a desktop. Isn’t the whole point of a laptop portability? The Alienware core i9 weighs 9 pounds. I certainly wouldn’t want to be lugging that around. Maybe it was a mistake for Apple (and others) to put the i9 in a ultrabook form factor laptop. People say just make it thicker but I remember when people complained about the 3rd gen iPad being thicker and heavier. If the 15” MBP was now 6 (or more) pounds would people be cheering that? I doubt it. Wired dinged this laptop for not being true 4K. Is that really noticeable in dat to day use? And what would a 4K screen do to battery life and price? The machine is already very expensive. IMO if this machine isn’t powerful enough for somebody then they probably should be using a desktop.
I think there is nothing in your comment that I disagree with.
A fact that often gets lost, is the "Pro" name has more to do with marketing than anything else. Are you less of a Pro if you make money on a MacBook Air, or a Mac mini? The gatekeeping surrounding the name, and complaints about the Pro not catering to absolutely every conceivable use case is ridiculous.
The i9 MBP won't sell a ton of machines. I don't think that it will break the "low single digits" that was talked about for the Mac Pro in its heyday-- but this is a number we'll never know for sure outside the Cupertino walls.
John Gruber and Marco Arment were discussing this on the latest Talk Show podcast. They both agreed the Pro nomenclature was more marketing than anything else. To me though people are too hung up on specs. The question should be does this device do what I need it to do and does it do it well. I’ll bet the percentage of people who need the full power of an i9 in a laptop form factor is small.
I think the "Pro" distinction has to do with the need for a certain level of machine to do certain kinds of work. If it's to surf the internet, use Office type apps, check Facebook, watch some YouTube videos, post-process iPhone photos, etc., certainly a far lesser machine will do just fine. But if you're editing high-resolution video, post-processing large Photoshop images, editing audio, doing design or playing advanced games, that's where the "Pro" specs come in, regardless if one is getting paid for that work or not. As for me personally, I do want the same power in a laptop as a desktop because I only use one machine. But I would have no problem with a slightly thicker and heavier machine, especially if Apple restored the ability for end-users to install/upgrade memory, storage and battery, like my late-2008 MBP did. And certainly Apple can offer a choice because for the type of work most people do when they carry their machine to Starbucks, almost any computer will do just fine.
As for the improvement in specs of the new MBP's versus last year's or even the late-2016, which I have, it doesn't seem like much of a practical difference for most uses (except for the types who need their amps to go to "11").
1) Thanks for doing a comparison of MagSafe v USB-C. That lines up with my anecdotal experience. I still can't understand why after decades of bellyaching about Apple using proprietary, unlicensed connection options that when Apple finally adopts one because it is inherently better that people still complain.
I would like to note that this will get buried in this review. May I suggest that you do a separate article detailing both MagSafe designs, USB-C (with Apple and 3rd-party cables), and the deep barrel connector they used prior. I'd also like to proffer that you use a pull force gauge so you can get accurate measurements that can be put into a chart.
2) Is the keyboard heating up because of the i9 under max load and/or the RAM? IOW, if you got the entry-level 15" MBP but with 32 GiB DDR4 RAM would you still have that same issue (i.e.: an issue for the entire 2018 15" MBP line in any configuration), mostly an issue with the Intel i9, or an issue with the i9 under load for extended periods of time (like when running benchmarks)?
3) Were you able to do any battery tests to see if the 2018 15" MBP with the larger battery was indeed inline with the 2017 15" MBP under the same load? I can imagine that under load the 2018 models may reduce their time more than the 2017 with the smaller battery, but if you can get more work done then it could offset that loss.
4) Since they kept the weight the same YoY while increasing the battery capacity (which one report shows that it's both larger and heavier than last year's battery—so it's not lighter battery tech) I assume they milled the top chassis even more to lose the weight and make the space. Since this makes up the structure of the MBP did you find this to be less durable, dissipate heat worse/better since it also acts as a heatsink, or any other potential problems with removing several ounces of aluminium from the frame? If not, have they really been wasting all metal and adding unneeded weight all these years, or do you think that they've engineered something stronger (like they did with the iPhone S series over the iPhone 6 series after Bendghazi)?
Along with: "Regarding MagSafe, we've been testing USB-C for a very long time at this point. On a melamine, Corian, or finished wood desk surface, the force required to pull out Apple's USB-C charging cable is about three-quarters of what it takes to break a MagSafe 2 connection, when the cable is pulled from less than a 40-degree angle from center on the horizontal plane, and less than 30 degrees from center on the vertical."
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
Well, to be clear, I'm not saying it outperforms MagSafe in every condition. There are about a thousand variables involved, with angle of pull being only one. Others are the friction from the feet on the laptop, the surface, and about a thousand others.
Those 45W barrel connectors were terrible. They fit in very tight, and in a tug, it would at the very least wreck the AC adapter plug, and probably mangle the DC board on the computer end too. The Wallstreets, Lombards, and Pismos were absolutely terrible about this,
As far as I/O port damage goes, we're not really seeing anything yet, Like I told a previous poster, when we get more info, we'll be talking at some length about it. Two years, no spike in accidental damage repairs, though -- so that's a good sign.
As with utterly everything else on this laptop and every other one ever made, how well it performs -- or survives -- depends on a million variables.
1) Thanks for doing a comparison of MagSafe v USB-C. That lines up with my anecdotal experience. I still can't understand why after decades of bellyaching about Apple using proprietary, unlicensed connection options that when Apple finally adopts one because it is inherently better that people still complain.
I would like to note that this will get buried in this review. May I suggest that you do a separate article detailing both MagSafe designs, USB-C (with Apple and 3rd-party cables), and the deep barrel connector they used prior. I'd also like to proffer that you use a pull force gauge so you can get accurate measurements that can be put into a chart.
2) Is the keyboard heating up because of the i9 under max load and/or the RAM? IOW, if you got the entry-level 15" MBP but with 32 GiB DDR4 RAM would you still have that same issue (i.e.: an issue for the entire 2018 15" MBP line in any configuration), mostly an issue with the Intel i9, or an issue with the i9 under load for extended periods of time (like when running benchmarks)?
3) Were you able to do any battery tests to see if the 2018 15" MBP with the larger battery was indeed inline with the 2017 15" MBP under the same load? I can imagine that under load the 2018 models may reduce their time more than the 2017 with the smaller battery, but if you can get more work done then it could offset that loss.
4) Since they kept the weight the same YoY while increasing the battery capacity (which one report shows that it's both larger and heavier than last year's battery—so it's not lighter battery tech) I assume they milled the top chassis even more to lose the weight and make the space. Since this makes up the structure of the MBP did you find this to be less durable, dissipate heat worse/better since it also acts as a heatsink, or any other potential problems with removing several ounces of aluminium from the frame? If not, have they really been wasting all metal and adding unneeded weight all these years, or do you think that they've engineered something stronger (like they did with the iPhone S series over the iPhone 6 series after Bendghazi)?
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
I'm sure force requirements for USB-C increase as you increase the angle, whereas MagSafe it may even be less tension because it can act like a fulcrum at one end to pull the magnet off the other. That's why I'd like to see a chart.
As they state in the article, if your cable is still going to be plugged in despite the all-day battery that didn't exist back before MagSafe and it will be a tripping hazard that could potentially pull your MBP to the floor there are plenty of 3rd-party options in which to choose from.
To be fair, the all day battery life is for web browsing and word processing. If you get into anything that is demanding on CPU and/or GPU, its more inline with a 2.5 hour battery. When I run simulations, I always plug in the laptop, even if I only need 20 minutes of processing. It would be a hard draw on the battery while the chassis is at an elevated temperature.
True on the adaptors as time has gone on but now I am hoping the third-party options are well designed, to an Apple-like quality. Also, dumping 3.5K on a laptop, it gets annoying to go around buying a bunch of adaptors for everything.
@ Mike W., when you say 45W barrel adaptor, I am assuming you mean the ones that PCs use. You are right on those. My wife has an old cheap Dell that she had for school. She had this terrible habit (I always warned her) of leaving it plugged in, sometimes in just stupid places. One day when she left it in a bad place and didn't see it, it fell about 1.5ft but right on the power adaptor. I spent an afternoon taking the power port off, repairing the board (luckily a small external board from the mother board) and soldering a new power port.
1) Thanks for doing a comparison of MagSafe v USB-C. That lines up with my anecdotal experience. I still can't understand why after decades of bellyaching about Apple using proprietary, unlicensed connection options that when Apple finally adopts one because it is inherently better that people still complain.
I would like to note that this will get buried in this review. May I suggest that you do a separate article detailing both MagSafe designs, USB-C (with Apple and 3rd-party cables), and the deep barrel connector they used prior. I'd also like to proffer that you use a pull force gauge so you can get accurate measurements that can be put into a chart.
2) Is the keyboard heating up because of the i9 under max load and/or the RAM? IOW, if you got the entry-level 15" MBP but with 32 GiB DDR4 RAM would you still have that same issue (i.e.: an issue for the entire 2018 15" MBP line in any configuration), mostly an issue with the Intel i9, or an issue with the i9 under load for extended periods of time (like when running benchmarks)?
3) Were you able to do any battery tests to see if the 2018 15" MBP with the larger battery was indeed inline with the 2017 15" MBP under the same load? I can imagine that under load the 2018 models may reduce their time more than the 2017 with the smaller battery, but if you can get more work done then it could offset that loss.
4) Since they kept the weight the same YoY while increasing the battery capacity (which one report shows that it's both larger and heavier than last year's battery—so it's not lighter battery tech) I assume they milled the top chassis even more to lose the weight and make the space. Since this makes up the structure of the MBP did you find this to be less durable, dissipate heat worse/better since it also acts as a heatsink, or any other potential problems with removing several ounces of aluminium from the frame? If not, have they really been wasting all metal and adding unneeded weight all these years, or do you think that they've engineered something stronger (like they did with the iPhone S series over the iPhone 6 series after Bendghazi)?
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
I'm sure force requirements for USB-C increase as you increase the angle, whereas MagSafe it may even be less tension because it can act like a fulcrum at one end to pull the magnet off the other. That's why I'd like to see a chart.
As they state in the article, if your cable is still going to be plugged in despite the all-day battery that didn't exist back before MagSafe and it will be a tripping hazard that could potentially pull your MBP to the floor there are plenty of 3rd-party options in which to choose from.
To be fair, the all day battery life is for web browsing and word processing. If you get into anything that is demanding on CPU and/or GPU, its more inline with a 2.5 hour battery. When I run simulations, I always plug in the laptop, even if I only need 20 minutes of processing. It would be a hard draw on the battery while the chassis is at an elevated temperature.
True on the adaptors as time has gone on but now I am hoping the third-party options are well designed, to an Apple-like quality. Also, dumping 3.5K on a laptop, it gets annoying to go around buying a bunch of adaptors for everything.
@ Mike W., when you say 45W barrel adaptor, I am assuming you mean the ones that PCs use. You are right on those. My wife has an old cheap Dell that she had for school. She had this terrible habit (I always warned her) of leaving it plugged in, sometimes in just stupid places. One day when she left it in a bad place and didn't see it, it fell about 1.5ft but right on the power adaptor. I spent an afternoon taking the power port off, repairing the board (luckily a small external board from the mother board) and soldering a new power port.
Those too, but back pre-MagSafe Apple had a similar design.
I’m curious what percentage of the buying public needs a laptop that has the same amount of power as a desktop. Isn’t the whole point of a laptop portability? The Alienware core i9 weighs 9 pounds. I certainly wouldn’t want to be lugging that around. Maybe it was a mistake for Apple (and others) to put the i9 in a ultrabook form factor laptop. People say just make it thicker but I remember when people complained about the 3rd gen iPad being thicker and heavier. If the 15” MBP was now 6 (or more) pounds would people be cheering that? I doubt it. Wired dinged this laptop for not being true 4K. Is that really noticeable in dat to day use? And what would a 4K screen do to battery life and price? The machine is already very expensive. IMO if this machine isn’t powerful enough for somebody then they probably should be using a desktop.
I think what you miss is that the crowd isn’t asking for a 6 pound laptop but was the 2015 body large? I remember it was 4.5 pounds vs 4 (correct me if I’m wrong). It was slightly thicker, was that a non portable laptop? The extra space could have been used for maintaining ports, battery size, and improving thermals. Maybe they wouldn’t allow the maximum use of a processor but they would be cooled better.
I think the heavy users are concerned the MacBook Pro is becoming the MacBook Air. If we wanted a moderate powered MacBook in 2011, we would buy a MacBook Air. Now you buy was is essentially a very well and full functioning netbook (MacBook) or the Pro which is getting closer to buying a MacBook Air/Pro hybrid. Cutting features in the name of thickness.
Hopefully they will will keep this chassis for several more years and allow the technology to catch up to the thickness. Hopefully getting faster and reducing thermal demands while improving on the keyboard.
Since when is the i9 MBP a “moderately powered MacBook”? And would an extra .5 pounds really matter in terms of thermal? Like I said the Alienware i9 is 9 pounds. The MBP didn’t lose USB-A ports because of its thinness, the MBP was able to become thinner because Apple made the decision to go all in on USB-C. They’re not going backwards now.
1) Thanks for doing a comparison of MagSafe v USB-C. That lines up with my anecdotal experience. I still can't understand why after decades of bellyaching about Apple using proprietary, unlicensed connection options that when Apple finally adopts one because it is inherently better that people still complain.
I would like to note that this will get buried in this review. May I suggest that you do a separate article detailing both MagSafe designs, USB-C (with Apple and 3rd-party cables), and the deep barrel connector they used prior. I'd also like to proffer that you use a pull force gauge so you can get accurate measurements that can be put into a chart.
2) Is the keyboard heating up because of the i9 under max load and/or the RAM? IOW, if you got the entry-level 15" MBP but with 32 GiB DDR4 RAM would you still have that same issue (i.e.: an issue for the entire 2018 15" MBP line in any configuration), mostly an issue with the Intel i9, or an issue with the i9 under load for extended periods of time (like when running benchmarks)?
3) Were you able to do any battery tests to see if the 2018 15" MBP with the larger battery was indeed inline with the 2017 15" MBP under the same load? I can imagine that under load the 2018 models may reduce their time more than the 2017 with the smaller battery, but if you can get more work done then it could offset that loss.
4) Since they kept the weight the same YoY while increasing the battery capacity (which one report shows that it's both larger and heavier than last year's battery—so it's not lighter battery tech) I assume they milled the top chassis even more to lose the weight and make the space. Since this makes up the structure of the MBP did you find this to be less durable, dissipate heat worse/better since it also acts as a heatsink, or any other potential problems with removing several ounces of aluminium from the frame? If not, have they really been wasting all metal and adding unneeded weight all these years, or do you think that they've engineered something stronger (like they did with the iPhone S series over the iPhone 6 series after Bendghazi)?
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
I'm sure force requirements for USB-C increase as you increase the angle, whereas MagSafe it may even be less tension because it can act like a fulcrum at one end to pull the magnet off the other. That's why I'd like to see a chart.
As they state in the article, if your cable is still going to be plugged in despite the all-day battery that didn't exist back before MagSafe and it will be a tripping hazard that could potentially pull your MBP to the floor there are plenty of 3rd-party options in which to choose from.
To be fair, the all day battery life is for web browsing and word processing.
To be fair to be fair, I believe that's how Mac notebooks batteries have been rated for about 2 decades. To be fair to be fair to be fair, I think Apple has made their testing procedure more difficult twice over so that the times more accurate represent the average user and further away from best case scenario.
Testing conducted by Apple in June 2018 using preproduction 2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i5-based 13-inch MacBook Pro systems with 8GB of RAM and 512GB SSD; and preproduction 2.6GHz 6-core Intel Core i7-based 15-inch MacBook Pro systems with 16GB of RAM and 512GB SSD. Testing conducted by Apple in May 2017 using preproduction 2.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5-based 13-inch MacBook Pro systems with 8GB of RAM and 1TB SSD. The wireless web test measures battery life by wirelessly browsing 25 popular websites with display brightness set to 12 clicks from bottom or 75%. The iTunes movie playback test measures battery life by playing back HD 1080p content with display brightness set to 12 clicks from bottom or 75%. The standby test measures battery life by allowing a system, connected to a wireless network and signed in to an iCloud account, to enter standby mode with Safari and Mail applications launched and all system settings left at default. Battery life varies by use and configuration. See www.apple.com/batteries for more information.
In response to a previous article and this one, AI is drinking too much Apple cool aid...
With the exception of the 13" quad core, these are not major upgrades at all...
The machines are good, yes. But there remain three massive issues which won't ever be fixed: 1. Extremely poor built in dedicated graphics (for a pro machine) (could someone tell me what the double precision FP performance of a Radeon 555X is!?)... Probably not even 100M FLOPS...? 2. CPUs which cannot hold even base frequency under constant load (is this the first laptop that Apple has shipped which cannot hold base frequency under full CPU utilisation)? 3. Price. It's no longer price competitive, especially once you start paying apple taxes for necessary add ons like dongles and extra SSD storage.
I'm so disappointed. I have lost so much faith in Apple's Mac team under TC. Things started going downhill pretty badly after Bob Mansfield left. I recently bought a 13" 2017 non touch bar laptop to tide me over until these upgrades were available, and now I don't know what to do. All of my long term Mac friends are leaving the platform because of cost (especially for SSD storage, it's insane, most people don't need 3GB/s write speeds, but they do need/want more storage in a laptop)... The pricing is just insane.
Apple just doesn't listen, it never has and probably never will... It's time for TC to go and concentrate on saving the world from intolerance. Let's please get someone in there who understands the Mac and is not just some logistics guy. Laptops are not going anywhere any time soon. But Apple is slowly bleeding its core users. And when developers all end up buying competing laptops, then the precious iOS will suffer too.
What's sad is that Apple is basically dead in Education and science now...
You guys have done an amazing job with all those reviews. So: Thank you! For completeness I would really like to see some of those numbers for the forgotten better 15" model (i7 with 2.6 GHz). Would really like to see where this lies between the minimum and maximum configurations...
I know that most people have settled on "the TouchBar is a gimmick", and I respect that opinion. But since nobody else says something positive about it, I have to mention that I would really miss it if it were removed. I see that it is rather useless if you are permanently using the TouchPad or mouse. But if you do anything keyboard-centric, like typing with both hands, I find it more than useful. Picking suggested word completions and selecting the buttons from dialogs without moving a hand to the trackpad alone is more than enough to make me like it. It is much less disruptive. And I consider the fluid volume, brightness and, where applicable, color adjustments a lot better than the old way.
I’m curious what percentage of the buying public needs a laptop that has the same amount of power as a desktop. Isn’t the whole point of a laptop portability? The Alienware core i9 weighs 9 pounds. I certainly wouldn’t want to be lugging that around. Maybe it was a mistake for Apple (and others) to put the i9 in a ultrabook form factor laptop. People say just make it thicker but I remember when people complained about the 3rd gen iPad being thicker and heavier. If the 15” MBP was now 6 (or more) pounds would people be cheering that? I doubt it. Wired dinged this laptop for not being true 4K. Is that really noticeable in dat to day use? And what would a 4K screen do to battery life and price? The machine is already very expensive. IMO if this machine isn’t powerful enough for somebody then they probably should be using a desktop.
I think what you miss is that the crowd isn’t asking for a 6 pound laptop but was the 2015 body large? I remember it was 4.5 pounds vs 4 (correct me if I’m wrong). It was slightly thicker, was that a non portable laptop? The extra space could have been used for maintaining ports, battery size, and improving thermals. Maybe they wouldn’t allow the maximum use of a processor but they would be cooled better.
I think the heavy users are concerned the MacBook Pro is becoming the MacBook Air. If we wanted a moderate powered MacBook in 2011, we would buy a MacBook Air. Now you buy was is essentially a very well and full functioning netbook (MacBook) or the Pro which is getting closer to buying a MacBook Air/Pro hybrid. Cutting features in the name of thickness.
Hopefully they will will keep this chassis for several more years and allow the technology to catch up to the thickness. Hopefully getting faster and reducing thermal demands while improving on the keyboard.
Since when is the i9 MBP a “moderately powered MacBook”? And would an extra .5 pounds really matter in terms of thermal? Like I said the Alienware i9 is 9 pounds. The MBP didn’t lose USB-A ports because of its thinness, the MBP was able to become thinner because Apple made the decision to go all in on USB-C. They’re not going backwards now.
The i9 fails to realize its full potential and the GPU is easily limited to the moderate class. Worse, get them both going at once. Potential is different from actual. As far as weight and thermals, the influence will be minimal; the volume and space to move a larger volume of air, along with more surface area to transfer heat is the major influence of sustained performance. Weight will mostly influence short-term performance as it absorbs heat, it’s not designed to transmit it.
Not saying the 2015 chassis (with a thermal beefier thermal system) would allow the i9 to hit its full potential or even the GPU too but it no doubt will help. That’s just physics.
I’m curious what percentage of the buying public needs a laptop that has the same amount of power as a desktop. Isn’t the whole point of a laptop portability? The Alienware core i9 weighs 9 pounds. I certainly wouldn’t want to be lugging that around. Maybe it was a mistake for Apple (and others) to put the i9 in a ultrabook form factor laptop. People say just make it thicker but I remember when people complained about the 3rd gen iPad being thicker and heavier. If the 15” MBP was now 6 (or more) pounds would people be cheering that? I doubt it. Wired dinged this laptop for not being true 4K. Is that really noticeable in dat to day use? And what would a 4K screen do to battery life and price? The machine is already very expensive. IMO if this machine isn’t powerful enough for somebody then they probably should be using a desktop.
I think what you miss is that the crowd isn’t asking for a 6 pound laptop but was the 2015 body large? I remember it was 4.5 pounds vs 4 (correct me if I’m wrong). It was slightly thicker, was that a non portable laptop? The extra space could have been used for maintaining ports, battery size, and improving thermals. Maybe they wouldn’t allow the maximum use of a processor but they would be cooled better.
I think the heavy users are concerned the MacBook Pro is becoming the MacBook Air. If we wanted a moderate powered MacBook in 2011, we would buy a MacBook Air. Now you buy was is essentially a very well and full functioning netbook (MacBook) or the Pro which is getting closer to buying a MacBook Air/Pro hybrid. Cutting features in the name of thickness.
Hopefully they will will keep this chassis for several more years and allow the technology to catch up to the thickness. Hopefully getting faster and reducing thermal demands while improving on the keyboard.
Since when is the i9 MBP a “moderately powered MacBook”? And would an extra .5 pounds really matter in terms of thermal? Like I said the Alienware i9 is 9 pounds. The MBP didn’t lose USB-A ports because of its thinness, the MBP was able to become thinner because Apple made the decision to go all in on USB-C. They’re not going backwards now.
The i9 fails to realize its full potential and the GPU is easily limited to the moderate class. Worse, get them both going at once. Potential is different from actual. As far as weight and thermals, the influence will be minimal; the volume and space to move a larger volume of air, along with more surface area to transfer heat is the major influence of sustained performance. Weight will mostly influence short-term performance as it absorbs heat, it’s not designed to transmit it.
Not saying the 2015 chassis (with a thermal beefier thermal system) would allow the i9 to hit its full potential or even the GPU too but it no doubt will help. That’s just physics.
OK, do you want a 9 pound laptop? For what? Why not use a desktop instead? I’ve got to believe the market for those who need desktop or workstation class performance in a portable device is very small. Apple doesn’t cater to extremely niche markets.
In response to a previous article and this one, AI is drinking too much Apple cool aid...
With the exception of the 13" quad core, these are not major upgrades at all...
The machines are good, yes. But there remain three massive issues which won't ever be fixed: 1. Extremely poor built in dedicated graphics (for a pro machine) (could someone tell me what the double precision FP performance of a Radeon 555X is!?)... Probably not even 100M FLOPS...? 2. CPUs which cannot hold even base frequency under constant load (is this the first laptop that Apple has shipped which cannot hold base frequency under full CPU utilisation)? 3. Price. It's no longer price competitive, especially once you start paying apple taxes for necessary add ons like dongles and extra SSD storage.
I'm so disappointed. I have lost so much faith in Apple's Mac team under TC. Things started going downhill pretty badly after Bob Mansfield left. I recently bought a 13" 2017 non touch bar laptop to tide me over until these upgrades were available, and now I don't know what to do. All of my long term Mac friends are leaving the platform because of cost (especially for SSD storage, it's insane, most people don't need 3GB/s write speeds, but they do need/want more storage in a laptop)... The pricing is just insane.
Apple just doesn't listen, it never has and probably never will... It's time for TC to go and concentrate on saving the world from intolerance. Let's please get someone in there who understands the Mac and is not just some logistics guy. Laptops are not going anywhere any time soon. But Apple is slowly bleeding its core users. And when developers all end up buying competing laptops, then the precious iOS will suffer too.
What's sad is that Apple is basically dead in Education and science now...
You need to look up the difference between FP64 on AMD versus Nvidia. The 555x is 1.4Tflop FP16 and 32, with 87 Gflop FP64. You missed your guess by more than two full orders of magnitude.
Your second point was dealt with after the patch on Wednesday. I'll give you partial credit for the third, and talked about this in the review but if you're doing dongles, you're doing it wrong.
I’m curious what percentage of the buying public needs a laptop that has the same amount of power as a desktop. Isn’t the whole point of a laptop portability? The Alienware core i9 weighs 9 pounds. I certainly wouldn’t want to be lugging that around. Maybe it was a mistake for Apple (and others) to put the i9 in a ultrabook form factor laptop. People say just make it thicker but I remember when people complained about the 3rd gen iPad being thicker and heavier. If the 15” MBP was now 6 (or more) pounds would people be cheering that? I doubt it. Wired dinged this laptop for not being true 4K. Is that really noticeable in dat to day use? And what would a 4K screen do to battery life and price? The machine is already very expensive. IMO if this machine isn’t powerful enough for somebody then they probably should be using a desktop.
I think what you miss is that the crowd isn’t asking for a 6 pound laptop but was the 2015 body large? I remember it was 4.5 pounds vs 4 (correct me if I’m wrong). It was slightly thicker, was that a non portable laptop? The extra space could have been used for maintaining ports, battery size, and improving thermals. Maybe they wouldn’t allow the maximum use of a processor but they would be cooled better.
I think the heavy users are concerned the MacBook Pro is becoming the MacBook Air. If we wanted a moderate powered MacBook in 2011, we would buy a MacBook Air. Now you buy was is essentially a very well and full functioning netbook (MacBook) or the Pro which is getting closer to buying a MacBook Air/Pro hybrid. Cutting features in the name of thickness.
Hopefully they will will keep this chassis for several more years and allow the technology to catch up to the thickness. Hopefully getting faster and reducing thermal demands while improving on the keyboard.
Since when is the i9 MBP a “moderately powered MacBook”? And would an extra .5 pounds really matter in terms of thermal? Like I said the Alienware i9 is 9 pounds. The MBP didn’t lose USB-A ports because of its thinness, the MBP was able to become thinner because Apple made the decision to go all in on USB-C. They’re not going backwards now.
The i9 fails to realize its full potential and the GPU is easily limited to the moderate class. Worse, get them both going at once. Potential is different from actual. As far as weight and thermals, the influence will be minimal; the volume and space to move a larger volume of air, along with more surface area to transfer heat is the major influence of sustained performance. Weight will mostly influence short-term performance as it absorbs heat, it’s not designed to transmit it.
Not saying the 2015 chassis (with a thermal beefier thermal system) would allow the i9 to hit its full potential or even the GPU too but it no doubt will help. That’s just physics.
1. Macs are designed to be quiet out of the box. One reason is that MacBooks can be used to record/perform music. Apple sells Logic Pro X, which is recording software. It is preferable with music recording and performance to have PCs which are quiet. Macs + Logic deliver that (which I’ve used in my own recording studio). - The gaming laptops which are being used as competition for the MacBook Pro are almost always loud. Those gaming laptops are not replacements for the MacBook Pro. 2. If the new MacBook Pro i9 (the fastest MacBook of all time) is a moderate class laptop, then all MacBooks would be moderate class laptops. And that might be your argument. If so, what is missed is that MacBooks are not only quieter than gaming laptops, they are lighter than many of gaming laptops and the chassis of MacBooks run cooler under load compared with several gaming laptops. ** Bottom line; raw speed is not the only important feature with a pro level laptop. Apple puts together a feature package in several ways which appeals to many professional computer users.
There are two ways to improve the thermals of the MacBook Pro i9:
1) Purchase a replacement bottom case cover (so you can replace the original back if you need repairs). Then mod the bottom case with holes to allow improved ventilation. And add thermal tape to bridge the gap between the bottom case and CPU/GPU heat sink so that the entire case can act like a heat sink. Here is the mod: https://medium.com/be-expert-101/my-macbook-is-too-hot-89afa1a0079a
Comments
Way, way more to come for testing, including workstation GPUs in an eGPU enclosure.
Along with: "Regarding MagSafe, we've been testing USB-C for a very long time at this point. On a melamine, Corian, or finished wood desk surface, the force required to pull out Apple's USB-C charging cable is about three-quarters of what it takes to break a MagSafe 2 connection, when the cable is pulled from less than a 40-degree angle from center on the horizontal plane, and less than 30 degrees from center on the vertical."
I have an issue with the USB-C vs Magsafe argument here. I am not saying I know the answer; however, the article notes that it takes less force when pulled relatively straight out. But when someone is walking and catches the cable of a laptop, the force more often than not is not relatively straight out. My experiences have been the cable is pulled at a sharper angle than 30-40 degrees from the insertion angle on the horizontal plane, not to mention its usually pulled down at an angle sharper than 30 degrees. The magsafe, in my experience, de-couples even easier to forces applied perpendicular to laptop chassis in both planes, especially the vertical plane(almost too easy sometimes). Does USB-C reflect that case? I would imagine it is more likely to bind (as it goes into the device) and pull the laptop. Also, say it dis-engages easily, does this perpendicular pressure wear on the I/O port? The engaging/disengaging of the magsafe at any angle doesn't bother the port. I just can't imagine a port that is specifically designed for break away will not outperform the USB-C that is not specifically designed for it.
Curious on the feedback. Will be interesting to see how the accidental damage reports play out over the next couple of years.
I've never been a big fan of a star-rating, for this reason alone. There is no such thing as a universal rating scale, a unilateral work case assessment, or a threshold for expense.
As they state in the article, if your cable is still going to be plugged in despite the all-day battery that didn't exist back before MagSafe and it will be a tripping hazard that could potentially pull your MBP to the floor there are plenty of 3rd-party options in which to choose from.
As for the improvement in specs of the new MBP's versus last year's or even the late-2016, which I have, it doesn't seem like much of a practical difference for most uses (except for the types who need their amps to go to "11").
Those 45W barrel connectors were terrible. They fit in very tight, and in a tug, it would at the very least wreck the AC adapter plug, and probably mangle the DC board on the computer end too. The Wallstreets, Lombards, and Pismos were absolutely terrible about this,
As far as I/O port damage goes, we're not really seeing anything yet, Like I told a previous poster, when we get more info, we'll be talking at some length about it. Two years, no spike in accidental damage repairs, though -- so that's a good sign.
As with utterly everything else on this laptop and every other one ever made, how well it performs -- or survives -- depends on a million variables.
To be fair, the all day battery life is for web browsing and word processing. If you get into anything that is demanding on CPU and/or GPU, its more inline with a 2.5 hour battery. When I run simulations, I always plug in the laptop, even if I only need 20 minutes of processing. It would be a hard draw on the battery while the chassis is at an elevated temperature.
True on the adaptors as time has gone on but now I am hoping the third-party options are well designed, to an Apple-like quality. Also, dumping 3.5K on a laptop, it gets annoying to go around buying a bunch of adaptors for everything.
@ Mike W., when you say 45W barrel adaptor, I am assuming you mean the ones that PCs use. You are right on those. My wife has an old cheap Dell that she had for school. She had this terrible habit (I always warned her) of leaving it plugged in, sometimes in just stupid places. One day when she left it in a bad place and didn't see it, it fell about 1.5ft but right on the power adaptor. I spent an afternoon taking the power port off, repairing the board (luckily a small external board from the mother board) and soldering a new power port.
With the exception of the 13" quad core, these are not major upgrades at all...
The machines are good, yes. But there remain three massive issues which won't ever be fixed:
1. Extremely poor built in dedicated graphics (for a pro machine) (could someone tell me what the double precision FP performance of a Radeon 555X is!?)... Probably not even 100M FLOPS...?
2. CPUs which cannot hold even base frequency under constant load (is this the first laptop that Apple has shipped which cannot hold base frequency under full CPU utilisation)?
3. Price. It's no longer price competitive, especially once you start paying apple taxes for necessary add ons like dongles and extra SSD storage.
I'm so disappointed. I have lost so much faith in Apple's Mac team under TC. Things started going downhill pretty badly after Bob Mansfield left. I recently bought a 13" 2017 non touch bar laptop to tide me over until these upgrades were available, and now I don't know what to do.
All of my long term Mac friends are leaving the platform because of cost (especially for SSD storage, it's insane, most people don't need 3GB/s write speeds, but they do need/want more storage in a laptop)... The pricing is just insane.
Apple just doesn't listen, it never has and probably never will... It's time for TC to go and concentrate on saving the world from intolerance. Let's please get someone in there who understands the Mac and is not just some logistics guy. Laptops are not going anywhere any time soon. But Apple is slowly bleeding its core users. And when developers all end up buying competing laptops, then the precious iOS will suffer too.
What's sad is that Apple is basically dead in Education and science now...
The i9 fails to realize its full potential and the GPU is easily limited to the moderate class. Worse, get them both going at once. Potential is different from actual.
As far as weight and thermals, the influence will be minimal; the volume and space to move a larger volume of air, along with more surface area to transfer heat is the major influence of sustained performance. Weight will mostly influence short-term performance as it absorbs heat, it’s not designed to transmit it.
Not saying the 2015 chassis (with a thermal beefier thermal system) would allow the i9 to hit its full potential or even the GPU too but it no doubt will help. That’s just physics.
Your second point was dealt with after the patch on Wednesday. I'll give you partial credit for the third, and talked about this in the review but if you're doing dongles, you're doing it wrong.
I don't think you read the review.
One reason is that MacBooks can be used to record/perform music. Apple sells Logic Pro X, which is recording software. It is preferable with music recording and performance to have PCs which are quiet. Macs + Logic deliver that (which I’ve used in my own recording studio).
- The gaming laptops which are being used as competition for the MacBook Pro are almost always loud. Those gaming laptops are not replacements for the MacBook Pro.
2. If the new MacBook Pro i9 (the fastest MacBook of all time) is a moderate class laptop, then all MacBooks would be moderate class laptops. And that might be your argument.
If so, what is missed is that MacBooks are not only quieter than gaming laptops, they are lighter than many of gaming laptops and the chassis of MacBooks run cooler under load compared with several gaming laptops.
** Bottom line; raw speed is not the only important feature with a pro level laptop. Apple puts together a feature package in several ways which appeals to many professional computer users.
1) Purchase a replacement bottom case cover (so you can replace the original back if you need repairs). Then mod the bottom case with holes to allow improved ventilation. And add thermal tape to bridge the gap between the bottom case and CPU/GPU heat sink so that the entire case can act like a heat sink. Here is the mod: https://medium.com/be-expert-101/my-macbook-is-too-hot-89afa1a0079a
2) Develop a replacement bottom case cover that is thick enough that it can hold extra batteries and fans and air vents to cool the MacBook Pro well enough to run at full speed. This would be like the proposed OWC DEC expansion case for the MacBook Pros. https://blog.macsales.com/39345-owc-makes-macbooks-pro-again-with-game-changing-product
These two mods would allow the MacBook Pro i7 to i9 to be the laptops they should have been in performance.