Apple wants iPhone to be proof of identity and replace passports

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 71
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 29,884member
    seankill said:
    I see a problem with this idea. To view the passport, you will unlock your phone, breaking your security measures. You are forced to identify yourself with your phone and risking the phone being confiscated without a security measure. Further, don’t forget software and battery concerns, I will stick to the old fashion method on this one. No battery, no software, always works unless stolen. 
    You’ve identified the problem exactly (no pun intended). One should NEVER voluntarily allow a government official access to your unlocked device without a court order/ warrant and even then, it should remain locked. Only the individual has any right to access their personal and private property.

    Any time international travel is required of me I take no digital devices, since each country enforces their own ideas about privacy (and that is they usually have little or no protections for individuals).
    edited August 9 tallest skilmacplusplus
  • Reply 22 of 71
    vadimyuryevvadimyuryev Posts: 146member, editor
    It could work as an alternative, like using Apple Pay when you forgot your wallet at home, but won't work as a replacement.
    Just wait for them to start chipping everyone.

    libertyforallSpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 71
    lvidallvidal Posts: 158member
    Neeeever gonna happen. Don't dream on that.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 24 of 71
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 29,884member
    lvidal said:
    Neeeever gonna happen. Don't dream on that.
    Some states in the US are planning on offering electronic versions of their State Driver License. Another very foolish thing any person should avoid putting on a secure personal device.
  • Reply 25 of 71
    If we are moving to the point where your identity is stored on a computer, wouldn’t it make more sense for them to be on a database, and you give your fingerprint/ face to that computer which verifies by the database?

    i see no reason for them to have your own phone verify you, since it would be more easy to fake, and the realibilty of different phones varies, and it’s not like they could legally have it an Apple exclusive feature.
  • Reply 26 of 71
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,149member
    The commentors have about covered this. Not viable. Governments' interest and efforts will be invested almost exclusively in identifying and associating data about individuals on their own, not providing individuals a means of control. The citizen actually is the product. 
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 27 of 71
    croprcropr Posts: 835member
    cropr said:

     - How can a government disable a passport? Can this be done remotely?  If it can, how can we avoid abuse?
     - What would happen if a government gets a serious dispute with the manufacturer? 
     - What would happen if the secured environment would be hacked and the manufacturer "forgot" to tell the government in time?
     - How does a foreign country can put in a stamp in the passport? 
     - How do we cope with multiple passports (one for Israel and one for the Arab countries)?
    1: By not verifying when the credentials are requested. 

    2: I’m not sure why this is an issue. 

    3: That remains to be seen. What happens if someone forges a passport now?

    4: It doesn’t need to be “stamped”, instead can list where you have been approved to enter, time and date noted. 

    5: Same as we cope with multiple credit cards. 
    Apparently you have not done a lot of international travel with passport controls
    1) You answer is exactly the issue.  This would require that any country anywhere on the world should agree to this way of working.  Good luck with that.
    2) It is Apple has denied until now to unlock iPhones on request of the police. For passport verification this cannot be sustained.  What if the government declares because of this that the electronic passport is no longer valid and you are abroad while this happens?
    3) A hacked electronic passport is a very big issue. It takes a well trained border police about 2 seconds to detect a fraudulent paper passport. There is no way a border police officer of a foreign country can detect the difference between a hacked and genuine electronic passport (that is the big danger of professional hacking, it can wipe out all traces of the hacking).
    4) This is another big issue. Stamps are used to put a visas in passports and to register in and out movements.   Bear in mind that a lot of countries are used to work with stamps and they don't have the money nor the will to change a working, cost effective solution.  Why should these countries make an investment because a foreigner of another country has an electronic passport?
    5) Your solution just fails.  If an Arab country detects that there is a 2nd passport (used for Israel) on your iPhone, you are not allowed to enter the country.  The nice thing about paper passports is that you can have 2 of them, fully separated from each other.  Having 2 iPhones seems a bit overkill.

    muthuk_vanalingammacplusplus
  • Reply 28 of 71
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,698member
    kkqd1337 said:
    This will never happen. Globally the world is not technologically or culturally ready for this. What’s ultimately more likely is for us to not have passports at all, and be identified biometrically on a database. Not saying I would like that to happen, but that is the more likely end goal.
    Yes. I've always said I am who I say I am and should not need to have a document to prove it. At some point a biometric scan will be enough and physical passports and ID will be documents on government devices, not on user devices. We will literally be who we are and verified on what we are.
  • Reply 29 of 71
    ElCapitan said:
    I am sure they do, but I believe the governments around the world are better left to issue, control and withdraw passports, and not leave it to a US based company. 
    What part of the article makes you believe Apple would be issuing, controlling and withdrawing passports? It clearly states the credentials would be verified by “an authority”. Apple is simply putting forth a system to make digital passports viable. 

    Think of it in the same way as Apple Pay works. Apple doesn’t issue the credit cards or debit cards, that’s still the job of the banks or CC issuers. The transactions aren’t handled by Apple, either, your iPhone just facilitates the transaction. 
    There is no doubt in my mind they can make it work technically, but that's beyond the point. 

    It is time Apple and a few other of these companies are read the riot act on how to behave, and what functions of society to stay out of. 
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 30 of 71
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    The only reason I still carry a wallet is for my drivers license.
    Why not just keep it in your car, then?
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 31 of 71
    I keep important identification documents on iCloud (DL, insurance, etc.) but I have no interest in replacing the passport with a phone.

    It would be better to chip passports like they do credit cards, but with the applicable information.  It would be useful if it kept flight history even domestically (maybe some medical information for allergies, etc), good luck getting everyone on board a common system internationally though.

    Creating something useful is going to be difficult.  Certain parts need to be unchangeable, but others editable... who gets access to what would be a security mess.  In international idenfication blockchain? 
  • Reply 32 of 71
    The only reason I still carry a wallet is for my drivers license.
    Why not just keep it in your car, then?
    That’s what I usually do.  I carry my wallet to the car, lock it in the glove compartment, go out and do my thing, remove the wallet when I get home. I seldom need to have my wallet, especially since most of the places I need a credit card now accept Apple Pay.

    But I’d rather not have to think about carrying a wallet at all.  Moving to digital ID is definitely a big step in that direction.  People mention insurance cards, that would be handy, but I need those much less frequently than I need an ID, and even that isn’t very often (aside from the “you must carry and photo ID with you at all times” silliness).

    Side note: my most recent credit card bill had 34 Apple Pay transactions on it out of 79 total transactions.  Before anyone jumps on “that’s less than 50% of your transactions” keep in mind I had 7 iTunes/App Store charges, Netflix, and a few other “online” charges where they have my card on file, a few restaurants.
  • Reply 33 of 71

    It would be better to chip passports like they do credit cards, but with the applicable information.  It would be useful if it kept flight history even domestically (maybe some medical information for allergies, etc), good luck getting everyone on board a common system internationally though.
    Yeah, that’s definitely the hardest part.  But it wouldn’t have to be universal, if it started out just working at say, the US/Mexico and US/Canada Border, that would be a potentially nice change for thousands of people almost immediately.  I would expect people would still have the traditional passport, like we still carry physical credit cards, but could use the digital passport when possible.  So, if you know you’re crossing a border that accepts digital ID you could leave the physical at home.
  • Reply 34 of 71
    How about starting by replacing drivers licenses with something digital? My health insurance card is now digital. The only reason I still carry a wallet is for my drivers license.
    This needs to happen, but there's a ton of bureaucratic and technical coordination that needs to take place, and I'm not sure our government is competent enough to recognize what it needs to do (let alone pull it off).
  • Reply 35 of 71
    lvidal said:
    Neeeever gonna happen. Don't dream on that.
    Some states in the US are planning on offering electronic versions of their State Driver License. Another very foolish thing any person should avoid putting on a secure personal device.
    Unfortunately, these are standalone apps which DO require the phone to be unlocked fully when handed to a law enforcement agent.

    Oh, and States aren't coordinating, so your Delaware license won't work a) in a neighboring State, or b) at a TSA checkpoint.

    States rolling their own digital ID apps is an eff'n awful idea which only benefits the companies contracted to roll them.  Government at work.
    edited August 9
  • Reply 36 of 71
    The only reason I still carry a wallet is for my drivers license.
    Why not just keep it in your car, then?
    Because a driver's license is used for more things than driving? Dude, think it through for like 1 minute...
    muthuk_vanalingameightzero
  • Reply 37 of 71

    It would be better to chip passports like they do credit cards, but with the applicable information.  It would be useful if it kept flight history even domestically (maybe some medical information for allergies, etc), good luck getting everyone on board a common system internationally though.
    Yeah, that’s definitely the hardest part.  But it wouldn’t have to be universal, if it started out just working at say, the US/Mexico and US/Canada Border, that would be a potentially nice change for thousands of people almost immediately.  I would expect people would still have the traditional passport, like we still carry physical credit cards, but could use the digital passport when possible.  So, if you know you’re crossing a border that accepts digital ID you could leave the physical at home.
    You’d probably need to get a dozen of the biggest countries on board, otherwise it might be more trouble than its worth.  The USA doesn’t exactly have a lot of political clout at the moment.  We don’t exactly have a good reputation keeping our word... we might of insulted a few foreign leaders also.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 71
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Because a driver's license is used for more things than driving? Dude, think it through for like 1 minute...
    Well, I tend not to write checks in-store (so they don’t need to see it there). If I need to go to a state building, I’m already in my car and can grab it from there, and if I’m buying a gun the same thing applies. I’m trying to think of other places it would matter.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 39 of 71
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 580member
    Keep your physical passport handy—just in case a government decides to use an EMP nearby to fry all your electronics. Yes, I’m talking about the US government. 
    macplusplus
  • Reply 40 of 71
    Because a driver's license is used for more things than driving? Dude, think it through for like 1 minute...
    Well, I tend not to write checks in-store (so they don’t need to see it there). If I need to go to a state building, I’m already in my car and can grab it from there, and if I’m buying a gun the same thing applies. I’m trying to think of other places it would matter.
    1. Bar / clubs / casinos
    2. Picking up tickets at a will-call window
    3. Checking in to a hotel room
    4. Grocery store (buying alcohol or cigarettes)
    5. Renting a car
    6. TSA checkpoints
    edited August 9 gatorguymuthuk_vanalingamtallest skil
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