Apple wants iPhone to be proof of identity and replace passports

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 71
    mac_dog said:
    Keep your physical passport handy—just in case a government decides to use an EMP nearby to fry all your electronics. Yes, I’m talking about the US government. 
    You'll have bigger problems to worry about if you're a victim of an EMP attack.
    muthuk_vanalingamStrangeDays
  • Reply 42 of 71
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 112member
    kkqd1337 said:
    This will never happen. Globally the world is not technologically or culturally ready for this. What’s ultimately more likely is for us to not have passports at all, and be identified biometrically on a database. Not saying I would like that to happen, but that is the more likely end goal.
    This.
  • Reply 43 of 71
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,288member
    This is tricky, but if there's anyone I trust to do it right it's Apple.
  • Reply 44 of 71
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,020member
    seankill said:
    I see a problem with this idea. To view the passport, you will unlock your phone, breaking your security measures. You are forced to identify yourself with your phone and risking the phone being confiscated without a security measure. Further, don’t forget software and battery concerns, I will stick to the old fashion method on this one. No battery, no software, always works unless stolen. 
    Another problem with this idea is the new automated passport control kiosks at airports in Europe and here in the U.S. The one I used in Schiphol in Amsterdam a few days ago, the passport went inside the machine to scan it. This wouldn't work unless the kiosks are replaced or upgraded. I highly doubt countries will want to pay to have this feature. I prefer having a physical passport, especially since I like having the stamps from all the countries I've visited. 
  • Reply 45 of 71
    crabbycrabby Posts: 33member
    Airlines already can not even do a boarding pass with consistency.. Within the same airline, it depends on the airport to have the compatible hardware/software.  It would only take an inoperative device at one of the six border crossings on your trip to require you to carry your passport anyway. 
    eightzero
  • Reply 46 of 71
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,288member
    Apple's iPhone will never get that honor of being a substitute for a passport. There aren't enough iPhones in the world to make such a thing possible. Smartphones running Android OS have a much better chance because there are more of them. Besides, there are too many anti-Apple factions in the world who would never allow such a thing to take place. The current passport will be around for a long time to come, although it may see a lot of digital improvements.
    I don't understand your comment. It sounds like you're assuming that for a digital ID to exist on an iPhone that everyone would have to have an iPhone because it would somehow cause all other forms of ID to no longer function or be accepted.

    If that's correct, then I wholeheartedly disagree. Apple creating a secure framework for ID and those that would need your ID for verification (i.e.: being relatively sure it's not a forgery when scanned) would feasibly work for Android and other OS vendors, like with Android Pay and Apple Pay being accepted at the same places… along with physical cards, cash, and even cheques.

    So if there's no argument for "there aren't enough iPhones in the world to make [Apple Pay] possible" which we can prove because Apple Pay exists (even ignoring that it's more popular than Android Pay despite the number of devices in use), then why can't a digital ID also be possible for iPhone users?
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 47 of 71
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    1. Bar / clubs / casinos
    2. Picking up tickets at a will-call window
    3. Checking in to a hotel room
    4. Grocery store (buying alcohol or cigarettes)
    5. Renting a car
    6. TSA checkpoints
    I now understand why I never really need my license.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 48 of 71
    1. Bar / clubs / casinos
    2. Picking up tickets at a will-call window
    3. Checking in to a hotel room
    4. Grocery store (buying alcohol or cigarettes)
    5. Renting a car
    6. TSA checkpoints
    I now understand why I never really need my license.
    I now understand why you have over 43,000 comments on AppleInsider.
    SoliSpamSandwichmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 49 of 71
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,628member
    Governments will never allow this to happen. Not without a huge struggle for Apple.
    ps: you’re screwed if you need to proof your identity and your battery’s empty.
    Actually when it comes to local ID, my US state has already created an iOS app that is a digital drivers license. They're training LEOs on a new "hands off" protocol for accepting it, tho I don't know the details yet.

    https://lawallet.com

    obviously, it's use is optional.
    edited August 9
  • Reply 50 of 71
    seankill said:
    I see a problem with this idea. To view the passport, you will unlock your phone, breaking your security measures. You are forced to identify yourself with your phone and risking the phone being confiscated without a security measure. Further, don’t forget software and battery concerns, I will stick to the old fashion method on this one. No battery, no software, always works unless stolen. 
    Usually people don't carry their passport on a day to day basis, so the chances of losing it or having it stolen is small. OTOH phones are now carried almost 24/7 and constantly unlocked so the chance of something happening to, including the content is relatively high. I doubt authorities would want the passport being backed up to iCloud or other backup services for restore, so when a phone is lost, stolen or sold, there is bureaucracy to get a new passport onto the phone again.

    Depending on destination and airline, passports can be collected on boarding the plane, and the crew will do document control in-flight, only to return the passport before landing.

    Likewise, in some countries and destinations you have to deliver your passport when checking in to a hotel, only to be returned on checkout. 

    If visiting another country, the police or immigration authorities may confiscate your passport to prevent you leaving the country in certain situations. Likewise a citizen's passport may be confiscated to prevent (or make it harder for) the citizen to leave the country.  In both cases it may not be desirable to confiscate the phone, and countries usually will not revoke the passport of a citizen when abroad (that only happens to people like Snowden...)


    edited August 9 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 51 of 71
    Governments will never allow this to happen. Not without a huge struggle for Apple.
    ps: you’re screwed if you need to proof your identity and your battery’s empty.
    Actually when it comes to local ID, my US state has already created an iOS app that is a digital drivers license. They're training LEOs on a new "hands off" protocol for accepting it, tho I don't know the details yet.

    https://lawallet.com
    Case in point re: my earlier post.

    State-specific app.
    • LA hired some local app developer to build it.  
    • You have to unlock your iPhone to be able to tap the app ... so you'd be handing over an unlocked phone to LE --- granted, maybe the "'hands off' protocol" means Bluetooth (which people disable all the time) or visual scanning is used ...
    • Doesn't work with any other State.  
    • Doesn't work at TSA.  
    • Curious about how it works at bars / hotels / rental car places / etc. (if it even does ...)
    I'd love to ask the State team that paid {{ some number of millions }} to the developer why they didn't just go for an Apple Wallet approach.
    edited August 9
  • Reply 52 of 71
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 5,628member
    Governments will never allow this to happen. Not without a huge struggle for Apple.
    ps: you’re screwed if you need to proof your identity and your battery’s empty.
    Actually when it comes to local ID, my US state has already created an iOS app that is a digital drivers license. They're training LEOs on a new "hands off" protocol for accepting it, tho I don't know the details yet.

    https://lawallet.com
    Case in point re: my earlier post.

    State-specific app.
    • LA hired some local app developer to build it.  
    • You have to unlock your iPhone to be able to tap the app ... so you'd be handing over an unlocked phone to LE --- granted, maybe the "'hands off' protocol" means Bluetooth (which people disable all the time) or visual scanning is used ...
    • Doesn't work with any other State.  
    • Doesn't work at TSA.  
    • Curious about how it works at bars / hotels / rental car places / etc. (if it even does ...)
    I'd love to ask the State team that paid {{ some number of millions }} to the developer why they didn't just go for an Apple Wallet approach.
    All of your points miss the point. I responded to a comment that said "governments will never allow this". Assuming the "this" is accepting digital ID, that is false -- my state government is allowing digital ID today. Thus my post.

    I never suggested my state government's policy has solved digital ID use for every state, or every use case.

    I did ask them why it's not in Wallet, and they said Wallet doesn't currently offer the number of data elements they need. They're continuing to work on this for the future. And that's why we call it software.
    edited August 9
  • Reply 53 of 71
    All of your points miss the point. I responded to a comment that said "governments will never allow this". Assuming the "this" is accepting digital ID, that is false -- my state government is allowing digital ID today. Thus my post.

    I did ask them why it's not in Wallet, and they said Wallet doesn't currently offer the number of data elements they need. They're continuing to work on this for the future. And that's why we call it software.
    Sorry, didn't mean to quote your "Governments will never allow this to happen" post.

    I wasn't responding to your post at all, just using the LA approach as an example of -- in my opinion -- a poor way to implement digital ID in America (when you consider that there are 50 States + US Territories).

    Re: needed data elements -- that is a valid argument against Apple Wallet.  Granted, I think the approach should be work with Apple to add the elements to Apple Wallet (vs. having some local app developer concoct its own proprietary "ID Wallet" app...).
    edited August 9
  • Reply 54 of 71
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,159member
    Because a driver's license is used for more things than driving? Dude, think it through for like 1 minute...
    Well, I tend not to write checks in-store (so they don’t need to see it there). If I need to go to a state building, I’m already in my car and can grab it from there, and if I’m buying a gun the same thing applies. I’m trying to think of other places it would matter.
    1. Bar / clubs / casinos
    2. Picking up tickets at a will-call window
    3. Checking in to a hotel room
    4. Grocery store (buying alcohol or cigarettes)
    5. Renting a car
    6. TSA checkpoints
    7. encounters with law enforcement.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 55 of 71
    All of your points miss the point. I responded to a comment that said "governments will never allow this". Assuming the "this" is accepting digital ID, that is false -- my state government is allowing digital ID today. Thus my post.

    I did ask them why it's not in Wallet, and they said Wallet doesn't currently offer the number of data elements they need. They're continuing to work on this for the future. And that's why we call it software.
    Re: needed data elements -- that is a valid argument against Apple Wallet.  Granted, I think the approach should be work with Apple to add the elements to Apple Wallet (vs. having some local app developer concoct its own proprietary "ID Wallet" app...).
    I wouldn’t say it’s an argument against Apple Wallet, more an argument that Apple Wallet could be more flexible. 

    As far as proprietary “solutions” go, yeah, it may be to convoluted to have every state working on their own app. I feel like it’s a “if you build it they will come” situation for Apple. If Apple puts together a system that works for state IDs that may be enough to entice the states toward it. 
  • Reply 56 of 71
    eightzero said:
    Because a driver's license is used for more things than driving? Dude, think it through for like 1 minute...
    Well, I tend not to write checks in-store (so they don’t need to see it there). If I need to go to a state building, I’m already in my car and can grab it from there, and if I’m buying a gun the same thing applies. I’m trying to think of other places it would matter.
    1. Bar / clubs / casinos
    2. Picking up tickets at a will-call window
    3. Checking in to a hotel room
    4. Grocery store (buying alcohol or cigarettes)
    5. Renting a car
    6. TSA checkpoints
    7. encounters with law enforcement.
    Well, clearly if the state is allowing a digital state ID then encounters with law enforcement won’t be a worrry (as far as providing ID goes). And I bet that if states start issuing digital IDs than all those other examples will accept them, too. All those other examples already accept state issued ID, why wouldn’t  they accept the same ID in a different form?
  • Reply 57 of 71
    Well, clearly if the state is allowing a digital state ID then encounters with law enforcement won’t be a worrry (as far as providing ID goes). And I bet that if states start issuing digital IDs than all those other examples will accept them, too. All those other examples already accept state issued ID, why wouldn’t  they accept the same ID in a different form?
    I'm not sure how LE is validating the ID, but if they're using Bluetooth (or some app / device), then all those other establishments will require the same.

    Think through what it would take to validate that a Digital ID is authentic -- it's certainly not impossible, but it's also not trivial.  I'm very against the State-by-State approach because, I believe, validation of Digital ID needs both policy & technical coordination if it's every going to be interoperable.

    With a physical ID, there's a fairly high minimum level of sophistication required for someone to produce even a fairly compelling duplicate.  With a Digital ID, a kid could literally screenshot a legit ID, use an image editor, and create a fake.


    edited August 9
  • Reply 58 of 71
    I wouldn’t say it’s an argument against Apple Wallet, more an argument that Apple Wallet could be more flexible. 
    Correct; you stated it more appropriately than I did.  I'm a firm believer that an Apple- / Google-lead (e.g., Apple Wallet & Google Pay) approach is the correct solution.
    edited August 9
  • Reply 59 of 71
    sqezesqeze Posts: 2member
    Just let me clip your visa to your passport, Sir... 
  • Reply 60 of 71
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 881member
    I don’t think it’s a bad idea to replace local ID with a phone if it was working like ApplePay without unlocking the phone first but instead using pin/biometrics for secure identification. However, replacing a passport is a different thing, I don’t think the world is ready for that, too many countries bureaucracies. Apple might use iPhone as an addition for paper passport for countries that accept electronic passport, so you keep your passport secured in your bag but using special chip in the phone to register in the self service immigration kiosk at airport.
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