Why would you compare a high quality machine to a Dell? They're junk.
But, far more importantly:
Simply comparing hardware is essentially meaningless to most users: Actually, the OS has a far bigger impact for "the average user" than does the hardware -- particularly since the internals are all just off-the-shelf stuff anyway.
And then we get to to services and support. ai published another article right above this one talking about "value added" products from Apple. A comparison of Apple hardware to another's hardware ignores the services, support and ecosystem that make that chunk of hardware stand above the rest.
This, as usual, was a good review by ai. But, it was also like comparing the skin of one apple to the skin of another. Incomplete.
A Dell XPS 15 that runs Mac OS, doesn't have that stupid LCD touchbar, and has all the ports I want so I don't need to carry a wad of adapters.
Perhaps Tim should buy Michael's company and combine the best...
Not much to combine there...not really worth it. Why would Apple just buy a company who just slaps together a bunch of off the shelf parts?
Apple buys off-the-shelf components too, but the hardware is less impressive for the money. Did you watch the video?
Besides... wouldn't it be nice to see all the Dell-ers become Apple People?
Yeah the T2, custom display controller chip, and custom firmware chips are just off the shelf parts. Get real! *rolls eyes* The only real major non-Apple chips are obviously the CPU and GPU. If Intel keeps up with their shit, it won't even be that.
Put the Dell keyboard on the MacBook and you have the perfect computer!
Seriously, Apple, you must increase the amount of keyboard travel on your machines.
I think the keyboard is just fine. Its really just a matter of choice really. There are people who didn't like the previous keyboard either you know...
A keyboard maybe a matter of choice, as you said. But in this case, Apple keyboard is not good. I work with devices from many brands, and you'll notice the difference.
I do as well and I have no problem using the first gen or second gen of Apple's new keyboards. Of course there's a difference, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible keyboard. It's a matter of choice. Like I said before, there were also people who didn't like the old style keyboard too. Just because the "me too" crowd wasn't in full force and didn't say they didn't like the previous gen keyboard doesn't mean everyone loved it.
A Dell XPS 15 that runs Mac OS, doesn't have that stupid LCD touchbar, and has all the ports I want so I don't need to carry a wad of adapters.
Perhaps Tim should buy Michael's company and combine the best...
Not much to combine there...not really worth it. Why would Apple just buy a company who just slaps together a bunch of off the shelf parts?
Apple buys off-the-shelf components too, but the hardware is less impressive for the money. Did you watch the video?
Besides... wouldn't it be nice to see all the Dell-ers become Apple People?
Yeah the T2, custom display controller chip, and custom firmware chips are just off the shelf parts. Get real! *rolls eyes* The only real major non-Apple chips are obviously the CPU and GPU. If Intel keeps up with their shit, it won't even be that.
All minor players... Implying that a T2 chip carries equal weight to the CPU is a false equivalency. He was correct -- with a few minor exceptions -- Macs use off the shelf components available to all... Yeh, they use top of the line stuff. But it's stuff anybody with a checkbook can buy.
Put the Dell keyboard on the MacBook and you have the perfect computer!
Seriously, Apple, you must increase the amount of keyboard travel on your machines.
I think the keyboard is just fine. Its really just a matter of choice really. There are people who didn't like the previous keyboard either you know...
A keyboard maybe a matter of choice, as you said. But in this case, Apple keyboard is not good. I work with devices from many brands, and you'll notice the difference.
I do as well and I have no problem using the first gen or second gen of Apple's new keyboards. Of course there's a difference, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible keyboard. It's a matter of choice. Like I said before, there were also people who didn't like the old style keyboard too. Just because the "me too" crowd wasn't in full force and didn't say they didn't like the previous gen keyboard doesn't mean everyone loved it.
Ahhh no... Few good typists who use keyboards a lot would "choose" a flat keyboard with no travel and little feel. Because it's on a Mac though it becomes "a choice"?
Why would you compare a high quality machine to a Dell? They're junk.
But, far more importantly:
Simply comparing hardware is essentially meaningless to most users: Actually, the OS has a far bigger impact for "the average user" than does the hardware -- particularly since the internals are all just off-the-shelf stuff anyway.
And then we get to to services and support. ai published another article right above this one talking about "value added" products from Apple. A comparison of Apple hardware to another's hardware ignores the services, support and ecosystem that make that chunk of hardware stand above the rest.
This, as usual, was a good review by ai. But, it was also like comparing the skin of one apple to the skin of another. Incomplete.
In my software company I've standardized on 2 machines: Dell XPS and MacbookPro. The Dell XPS machine run Ubuntu. I have not bought a new MBP 2018, but otherwise I have a very good view on the laptop of both suppliers.
The Dell XPS has an excellent build quality, great screen, superb keyboard. The MPB has a better trackpad , better webcam, roughly equal screen, but worse keyboard. MacOS is better for my graphical designers (Sketch and Adoba CC suite). Ubuntu is better for my backend developers (running multiple containers).
Both Dell XPS and Apple MBP are great machines, nicely engineered with high quality components. If there is one thing comes in neighbourhood of the term "junk", it is the butterfly keyboard on the MBP.
Apple has indeed a better service than Dell. But if there is a relevant difference between both ecosystems, it can only be the price
It would be interesting to contrast the Core i9 MacBook Pro and Dell with a system like this one, which is twice as heavy but supposedly doesn't throttle the CPU: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CCZZL2G/ Core i9-8950HK, 64 GB 2666MHz RAM, GTX 1080 GPU, 17" display.
SSD performance of the Dell XPS wasn't examined here either.
Put the Dell keyboard on the MacBook and you have the perfect computer!
Seriously, Apple, you must increase the amount of keyboard travel on your machines.
I think the keyboard is just fine. Its really just a matter of choice really. There are people who didn't like the previous keyboard either you know...
A keyboard maybe a matter of choice, as you said. But in this case, Apple keyboard is not good. I work with devices from many brands, and you'll notice the difference.
I do as well and I have no problem using the first gen or second gen of Apple's new keyboards. Of course there's a difference, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible keyboard. It's a matter of choice. Like I said before, there were also people who didn't like the old style keyboard too. Just because the "me too" crowd wasn't in full force and didn't say they didn't like the previous gen keyboard doesn't mean everyone loved it.
Following that line, we can said that Apple trackpads aren't better than others. It's just a matter of preference, right?
It would be interesting to contrast the Core i9 MacBook Pro and Dell with a system like this one, which is twice as heavy but supposedly doesn't throttle the CPU: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CCZZL2G/ Core i9-8950HK, 64 GB 2666MHz RAM, GTX 1080 GPU, 17" display.
SSD performance of the Dell XPS wasn't examined here either.
A Dell XPS 15 that runs Mac OS, doesn't have that stupid LCD touchbar, and has all the ports I want so I don't need to carry a wad of adapters.
Perhaps Tim should buy Michael's company and combine the best...
Not much to combine there...not really worth it. Why would Apple just buy a company who just slaps together a bunch of off the shelf parts?
Apple buys off-the-shelf components too, but the hardware is less impressive for the money. Did you watch the video?
Besides... wouldn't it be nice to see all the Dell-ers become Apple People?
The T2 is not an off-the-shelf component. Apple also uses custom SSD firmware.
Would it it be nice to see all Dell-ers become Apple people. That depends on Apple, who’ve always said they don’t build machines for everybody.
"That depends on Apple, who’ve always said they don’t build machines for everybody."
Apple said that? Really? Regardless, I think they should. Why should Apple buyers get basically lesser hardware and performance and pay more money than Dell offers? That is my point. I have a feeling Steve Jobs would agree... The world's most valuable company should give the people the best hardware, for the best price, and let their work begin on whatever platform they need to work in, since the Intel-based (currently) Mac has the ability to boot both Windows and Mac OSs. Then the World would be Mac.
Does Apple have the coolest design? No question. But pro computing needs performance, not only how great it looks on your desk.
It would be interesting to contrast the Core i9 MacBook Pro and Dell with a system like this one, which is twice as heavy but supposedly doesn't throttle the CPU: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CCZZL2G/ Core i9-8950HK, 64 GB 2666MHz RAM, GTX 1080 GPU, 17" display.
Comparing a gaming laptop with a professional laptop used for video editing (Final Cut) and music recording/performance (Logic Pro) runs into the fact that pro ultrabooks are very different computers from gaming laptops. - Screen; A good screen is essential for image/video editing work. The Asus ROG G703GI has a 1080p screen. Not acceptable. - Weight; a lighter laptop is useful to lug around a concert stage or to go on location to edit footage. The Asus ROG G703GI weighs about 10 pounds. That is not acceptable for a pro use laptop. - Battery life; Pro laptops needs extended battery life to work in the field for extended time. Battery life is not good with the Asus ROG G703GI. An Asus ROG G703 which uses the i7 gets about 2 hours on a charge. This is typical for many gaming laptops. - Noise; Apple computers are known to be quiet. They are useful in the music studio for instance. The Asus ROG G703GI has fan noise which randomly gets loud just by opening an application.
Two reviews which describe these issues with the Asus G703 lineup.
Put the Dell keyboard on the MacBook and you have the perfect computer!
Seriously, Apple, you must increase the amount of keyboard travel on your machines.
I think the keyboard is just fine. Its really just a matter of choice really. There are people who didn't like the previous keyboard either you know...
A keyboard maybe a matter of choice, as you said. But in this case, Apple keyboard is not good. I work with devices from many brands, and you'll notice the difference.
I do as well and I have no problem using the first gen or second gen of Apple's new keyboards. Of course there's a difference, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible keyboard. It's a matter of choice. Like I said before, there were also people who didn't like the old style keyboard too. Just because the "me too" crowd wasn't in full force and didn't say they didn't like the previous gen keyboard doesn't mean everyone loved it.
Following that line, we can said that Apple trackpads aren't better than others. It's just a matter of preference, right?
Obviously.
Didn’t expect that, did you.
Preferences for keyboards, mice, trackpads, headphones, cars, guns and battleships are all subjective.
How many times does this need to be said: if you don’t like Apple kit then buy something else.
Regardless, I think they should. Why should Apple buyers get basically lesser hardware and performance and pay more money than Dell offers? That is my point. I have a feeling Steve Jobs would agree... The world's most valuable company should give the people the best hardware, for the best price, and let their work begin on whatever platform they need to work in, since the Intel-based (currently) Mac has the ability to boot both Windows and Mac OSs. Then the World would be Mac.
Does Apple have the coolest design? No question. But pro computing needs performance, not only how great it looks on your desk.
Okay, let’s start with my statement that Apple says it doesn’t build machines for everybody. Yup, I’ve been too quick off the mark with that one: Cook has never said they don’t build machines for everyone. Since I can’t find a direct quote for that, I’m going to withdraw it.
In fact, I may have been doing the company a great disservice by saying they don’t build products for everybody, when they actually do:
We price for the value of our products. And we try to make the very best products. And that means we don’t make commodity kind of products. And we don’t disparage people that do; it’s a fine business model. But it’s not the business that we’re in.
Buuuut, they clearly not building them for you, are they? So perhaps what I should’ve said is that Apple doesn’t build machines for people who want commodity products … like your good self. That is what Dell is for, and they make good money doing it. The distinction between what I said and what Apple does is important. They have not said they don’t build machine for everybody; they said that they have decided to build a certain type of machine and sell to the market that wants that machine. If you want that machine then you’re welcome to buy it; if you don’t, then Dell’s number is a Bing search away.
Why should Apple buyers get basically lesser hardware and performance and pay more money than Dell offers?
To begin with, there is no such thing as an Apple buyer. You look at the market for a machine and pick the one that suits you best. Apple has decided that they want to serve a particular market and have focussed their efforts on that market. If you think that Dell offers better performance for less money then just buy a Dell. Don’t buy a Mac simply because you want people to think you’re a cool chap who runs a Mac. If Apple doesn’t meet your needs then buy something else. Apple has become a trillion dollar company by ignoring the demographic you’re in; I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to change course.
I have a feeling Steve Jobs would agree...
Oh, do you. Well, since you didn’t know “Steve” then I feel we can pretty much ignore this. The other more important note is that Jobs told Cook never to ask “What would Steve do”, so why do you folk keep coming up with this “Steve wouldn’t do this” nonsense like it’s going to make your point any more valid? Given what Jobs said to Cook, it only really proves that you didn’t know the man at all.
The world's most valuable company should give the people the best hardware, for the best price, and let their work begin on whatever platform they need to work in, since the Intel-based (currently) Mac has the ability to boot both Windows and Mac OSs. Then the World would be Mac.
Nope. The world’s most valuable company should be laser-focussed on their target demographic and deliver machines that reliably serve that target demographic. Yes, they could very easily make the world Mac by selling all their machines with the best hardware at rock bottom prices. And the following year they can go out of business. They could easily wipe Android off the face of the earth by selling the iPhoneX for $50 a pop. But what’s the point of having market share if you drive yourself bankrupt trying to attain it?
They don’t use the latest components; they use components that are known to be reliable because they’ve been battle-tested in the field. They don’t run processors at full speed all the time because they know that makes makes the machines overheat. They target the young, adaptable, mobile professional, rather than the old-timers who cannot adapt and who cannot seem to get past the sad fact that Steve Jobs passed away some time ago and the marketplace has moved on since.
It’s odd that people say stuff like “They’re a trillion dollar company so they should do this…” while completely forgetting how they got to be a trillion dollar company in the first place.
A Dell XPS 15 that runs Mac OS, doesn't have that stupid LCD touchbar, and has all the ports I want so I don't need to carry a wad of adapters.
Perhaps Tim should buy Michael's company and combine the best...
Not much to combine there...not really worth it. Why would Apple just buy a company who just slaps together a bunch of off the shelf parts?
Apple buys off-the-shelf components too, but the hardware is less impressive for the money. Did you watch the video?
Besides... wouldn't it be nice to see all the Dell-ers become Apple People?
Yeah the T2, custom display controller chip, and custom firmware chips are just off the shelf parts. Get real! *rolls eyes* The only real major non-Apple chips are obviously the CPU and GPU. If Intel keeps up with their shit, it won't even be that.
All minor players... Implying that a T2 chip carries equal weight to the CPU is a false equivalency. He was correct -- with a few minor exceptions -- Macs use off the shelf components available to all... Yeh, they use top of the line stuff. But it's stuff anybody with a checkbook can buy.
They carry a greater weight because they’re one of a handful of items that separate the Mac from a sea of commodity devices that are also stuck with a commodity chipset that is reaching an evolutionary dead end.
They carry a greater weight because they’re what the components that are taking an increasingly greater load off the aforementioned evolutionary dead end.
With the latest Macbook Pro 2018 pricing, I finally kicked Apple to the curb. Well sort of...I'm still rocking my 2014 MBP and it's performance is still solid but it's taking a back seat. I sold my 2017 MBP 15" a few weeks ago since it was the worst Mac I've ever owned. Listening to the sound of the fans under moderate load didn't warrant the $3K price tag.
Last week I took home the 9570 from Costco and with some under-volting tweaks I had that XPS purring, killed most of the fan noise and extended battery life considerably. In a desktop environment, once paired with an eGPU and the 1050ti takes a back seat you'll never hear the fans spin up again. I tried making the switch last year and the PC's out at that time weren't cutting it as far as build quality goes. This year, Dell and Razer have some solid machines and their current track-pads have made it possible to switch. One problem that PC manufactures are missing is more than one Thunderbolt 3 port, not to mention Thunderbolt implementation on the Windows side seems to be a mixed bag. It's not the first time I've left Apple and I'm sure they will lure me back again at some point (like they did with that 2006 MacPro). Until then I will be rocking a quiet Windows machine with some extra cash in my pocket.
Funny most of the complaints from the posters are regarding Windows 10 rather than the actual laptops and that's understandable. If you are locked into a particular company ecosystem its painful to change. I'm not and currently use Apple, Windows and Linux for production and writing. And despite all the yelping Windows 10 is a decent OS especially compared to the road kill named Windows 8 and believe me I can give you a long laundry list of complaints on all three Os's.
The lack of a new Mac Pro pushed me to a Dual Xeon Windows workstation but I now need a more powerful laptop for rendering. My Apple laptop is old and too weak for rendering but I liked its refined nature. But I also write and the new keyboard give me pause. A weak keyboard and slower render times maybe a show stopper for me. Let's be honest Adobe After Effects can bring any system to its knees. I dunno may have to go to an Apple store and see how bad or good the new keyboard is. Like everyone else if I could only cherry pick the features of my new laptop.
A Dell XPS 15 that runs Mac OS, doesn't have that stupid LCD touchbar, and has all the ports I want so I don't need to carry a wad of adapters.
Perhaps Tim should buy Michael's company and combine the best...
Not much to combine there...not really worth it. Why would Apple just buy a company who just slaps together a bunch of off the shelf parts?
Apple buys off-the-shelf components too, but the hardware is less impressive for the money. Did you watch the video?
Besides... wouldn't it be nice to see all the Dell-ers become Apple People?
The T2 is not an off-the-shelf component. Apple also uses custom SSD firmware.
Would it it be nice to see all Dell-ers become Apple people. That depends on Apple, who’ve always said they don’t build machines for everybody.
"That depends on Apple, who’ve always said they don’t build machines for everybody."
Apple said that? Really? Regardless, I think they should. Why should Apple buyers get basically lesser hardware and performance and pay more money than Dell offers? That is my point. I have a feeling Steve Jobs would agree... The world's most valuable company should give the people the best hardware, for the best price, and let their work begin on whatever platform they need to work in, since the Intel-based (currently) Mac has the ability to boot both Windows and Mac OSs. Then the World would be Mac.
Does Apple have the coolest design? No question. But pro computing needs performance, not only how great it looks on your desk.
Because, unlike Dell and other hardware peddlers, when you buy a Mac or any Apple hardware, you are getting far more than a mere chunk of hardware.
Comments
I do as well and I have no problem using the first gen or second gen of Apple's new keyboards. Of course there's a difference, but that doesn't mean it's a terrible keyboard. It's a matter of choice. Like I said before, there were also people who didn't like the old style keyboard too. Just because the "me too" crowd wasn't in full force and didn't say they didn't like the previous gen keyboard doesn't mean everyone loved it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CCZZL2G/
Core i9-8950HK, 64 GB 2666MHz RAM, GTX 1080 GPU, 17" display.
SSD performance of the Dell XPS wasn't examined here either.
We've got it in here. Honestly forgot to add the results in.
"That depends on Apple, who’ve always said they don’t build machines for everybody."
Apple said that? Really? Regardless, I think they should. Why should Apple buyers get basically lesser hardware and performance and pay more money than Dell offers? That is my point. I have a feeling Steve Jobs would agree... The world's most valuable company should give the people the best hardware, for the best price, and let their work begin on whatever platform they need to work in, since the Intel-based (currently) Mac has the ability to boot both Windows and Mac OSs. Then the World would be Mac.
Does Apple have the coolest design? No question. But pro computing needs performance, not only how great it looks on your desk.
- Screen; A good screen is essential for image/video editing work. The Asus ROG G703GI has a 1080p screen. Not acceptable.
- Weight; a lighter laptop is useful to lug around a concert stage or to go on location to edit footage. The Asus ROG G703GI weighs about 10 pounds. That is not acceptable for a pro use laptop.
- Battery life; Pro laptops needs extended battery life to work in the field for extended time. Battery life is not good with the Asus ROG G703GI.
An Asus ROG G703 which uses the i7 gets about 2 hours on a charge. This is typical for many gaming laptops.
- Noise; Apple computers are known to be quiet. They are useful in the music studio for instance. The Asus ROG G703GI has fan noise which randomly gets loud just by opening an application.
Two reviews which describe these issues with the Asus G703 lineup.
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/asus-rog-g703gi
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Asus-ROG-Chimera-G703-i7-7820HK-GTX-1080-Full-HD-Laptop-Review.287134.0.html
Didn’t expect that, did you.
Preferences for keyboards, mice, trackpads, headphones, cars, guns and battleships are all subjective.
How many times does this need to be said: if you don’t like Apple kit then buy something else.
Okay, let’s start with my statement that Apple says it doesn’t build machines for everybody. Yup, I’ve been too quick off the mark with that one: Cook has never said they don’t build machines for everyone. Since I can’t find a direct quote for that, I’m going to withdraw it.
In fact, I may have been doing the company a great disservice by saying they don’t build products for everybody, when they actually do:
http://fortune.com/2017/09/11/apple-tim-cook-education-health-care/
Buuuut, they clearly not building them for you, are they? So perhaps what I should’ve said is that Apple doesn’t build machines for people who want commodity products … like your good self. That is what Dell is for, and they make good money doing it. The distinction between what I said and what Apple does is important. They have not said they don’t build machine for everybody; they said that they have decided to build a certain type of machine and sell to the market that wants that machine. If you want that machine then you’re welcome to buy it; if you don’t, then Dell’s number is a Bing search away.
To begin with, there is no such thing as an Apple buyer. You look at the market for a machine and pick the one that suits you best. Apple has decided that they want to serve a particular market and have focussed their efforts on that market. If you think that Dell offers better performance for less money then just buy a Dell. Don’t buy a Mac simply because you want people to think you’re a cool chap who runs a Mac. If Apple doesn’t meet your needs then buy something else. Apple has become a trillion dollar company by ignoring the demographic you’re in; I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them to change course.
Oh, do you. Well, since you didn’t know “Steve” then I feel we can pretty much ignore this. The other more important note is that Jobs told Cook never to ask “What would Steve do”, so why do you folk keep coming up with this “Steve wouldn’t do this” nonsense like it’s going to make your point any more valid? Given what Jobs said to Cook, it only really proves that you didn’t know the man at all.
Nope. The world’s most valuable company should be laser-focussed on their target demographic and deliver machines that reliably serve that target demographic. Yes, they could very easily make the world Mac by selling all their machines with the best hardware at rock bottom prices. And the following year they can go out of business. They could easily wipe Android off the face of the earth by selling the iPhoneX for $50 a pop. But what’s the point of having market share if you drive yourself bankrupt trying to attain it?
They don’t use the latest components; they use components that are known to be reliable because they’ve been battle-tested in the field. They don’t run processors at full speed all the time because they know that makes makes the machines overheat. They target the young, adaptable, mobile professional, rather than the old-timers who cannot adapt and who cannot seem to get past the sad fact that Steve Jobs passed away some time ago and the marketplace has moved on since.
It’s odd that people say stuff like “They’re a trillion dollar company so they should do this…” while completely forgetting how they got to be a trillion dollar company in the first place.
They carry a greater weight because they’re what the components that are taking an increasingly greater load off the aforementioned evolutionary dead end.