Opposition to new Apple campus emerges in North Carolina's Research Triangle

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Apple's new campus in the North Carolina Research Triangle, considered a "done deal" months ago, remains uncertain, and a new report finds some opposition in the area to the potential project.

Research Triangle park


Apple, for much of the past year, has been seeking to find a spot for a large new corporate campus, with the Research Triangle in North Carolina emerging as a favorite. But a new report says some opposition has grown in academic and activist circles to Apple's presence in that region.

According to U.S. News and World Report, some in the region are skeptical that the arrival of a major new corporate campus is the best thing for the Research Triangle.

"It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at University of North Carolina, told U.S. News. Samuel Gunter, a housing advocate, argued that the region's housing market is already stretched by the last several years of growth, even before Apple enters the conversation. In Raleigh, the median home price has risen 50 percent in the last five years.

"All these new workers are going to need to go to school; they're going to need to go on the highway," Allan Freyer, of the North Carolina Justice Center, told the magazine. "It's not the worst problem to have. We want new jobs and big companies. The question is, are we well-positioned to provide the infrastructure and public services that we're going to need?"

Freyer went on to argue that if Apple arrives, it's important that the state meet the new demand by building schools.

Similar opposition has emerged in various cities considered by Amazon in their "HQ2" campaign, in which the e-commerce giant has pitted different locales against each other for the right to build a second headquarters.

Weighing the triangle

While not as high-profile an effort as Amazon's campaign, Apple has made it clear at the start of 2018 that they're looking for a new location outside of California to build a significant presence.

The Research Triangle area of North Carolina, consisting of Raleigh, Durham and Chapel Hill, emerged in the spring as the favorite, with reports in early June that an announcement of a deal was "imminent."

But no such announcement ever came, and a report last weekend stated that Apple was continuing to eye the region but is concerned about some constitutional amendments under consideration in North Carolina. The state is weighing amendments on voter identification, as well as on efforts to take some appointment powers away from the state's governor and give it to the legislature.

Apple already operates a data center in the state, as well as solar farms and several Apple Stores. In 2016, Apple was one of several tech companies to assail North Carolina for its passage of a "bathroom bill," although the law was later amended.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 18
    "It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, told U.S. News.  This guy is stuck on stupid.

    FYI, it's interesting the article says the median house price has increased by 50% over last 5 years but I can tell the price of a given house (not a median) has increased maybe 20% over that same period - I know because I live there and you can check Zillow as well.  The RTP area has very affordable housing and does anyone really think Apple adding 5,000 jobs over a few years to a region of 2.1M people is a big problem?  Keep in mind the brainiacs at UNC also wanted all of us out of the suburbs and back into the city because we were ruining the environment.  Ever been to Raleigh and RTP, there are forests everywhere.    
    jasenj1entropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 18
    "It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, told U.S. News.  This guy is stuck on stupid.

    FYI, it's interesting the article says the median house price has increased by 50% over last 5 years but I can tell the price of a given house (not a median) has increased maybe 20% over that same period - I know because I live there and you can check Zillow as well.  The RTP area has very affordable housing and does anyone really think Apple adding 5,000 jobs over a few years to a region of 2.1M people is a big problem?  Keep in mind the brainiacs at UNC also wanted all of us out of the suburbs and back into the city because we were ruining the environment.  Ever been to Raleigh and RTP, there are forests everywhere.    
    Aren't they talking about more like 20,000 jobs (or even more) which translates to some multiple of that for new residents (other family members)?

    In any case, the quotes in the article don't sound like "opposition" so much as cautionary advice to the decision makers.  "If Apple comes here, you'll need to invest in schools and other infrastructure and plan to approve more housing."  That sounds reasonable to me.
    tmayronnpscooter63bageljoeywatto_cobraddawson100
  • Reply 3 of 18
    "It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, told U.S. News.  This guy is stuck on stupid.

    FYI, it's interesting the article says the median house price has increased by 50% over last 5 years but I can tell the price of a given house (not a median) has increased maybe 20% over that same period - I know because I live there and you can check Zillow as well.  The RTP area has very affordable housing and does anyone really think Apple adding 5,000 jobs over a few years to a region of 2.1M people is a big problem?  Keep in mind the brainiacs at UNC also wanted all of us out of the suburbs and back into the city because we were ruining the environment.  Ever been to Raleigh and RTP, there are forests everywhere.    
    Aren't they talking about more like 20,000 jobs (or even more) which translates to some multiple of that for new residents (other family members)?

    In any case, the quotes in the article don't sound like "opposition" so much as cautionary advice to the decision makers.  "If Apple comes here, you'll need to invest in schools and other infrastructure and plan to approve more housing."  That sounds reasonable to me.
    Where in the world does 20,000 jobs come from?  The number has been up to 5,000 jobs and many of these will be filled by current people in the area, not all new residents.  Wake County has been dealing with similar population growth since the 1980's and they know how to handle it - this is not a new issue so why is it now a concern?  A bigger concern for the area is lack of adequate fresh water supply since the liberals in this state hate the idea of making new lakes or enlarging the current ones.  Fortunately, we have not had a drought the last few years but when they arrive the situation gets pretty bad and the obstructionists to progress only solution is to stop population growth.   
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 18
    ronnronn Posts: 320member
    "It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, told U.S. News.  This guy is stuck on stupid.

    FYI, it's interesting the article says the median house price has increased by 50% over last 5 years but I can tell the price of a given house (not a median) has increased maybe 20% over that same period - I know because I live there and you can check Zillow as well.  The RTP area has very affordable housing and does anyone really think Apple adding 5,000 jobs over a few years to a region of 2.1M people is a big problem?  Keep in mind the brainiacs at UNC also wanted all of us out of the suburbs and back into the city because we were ruining the environment.  Ever been to Raleigh and RTP, there are forests everywhere.    
    It doesn't help your point of view when you can't even get the gender of Nguyen right. She's a specialist in Housing and Community Development that lives in works in North Carolina. And as another poster already wrote, she doesn't so much oppose the Apple campus; she's really advocating that the state takes care to accommodate the needs an influx of workers will require -- it doesn't matter if it's 5K or 20K, there will be an impact. This is especially true for infrastructure and the potentially negative outcome for residents, current and future.

    edited to correct professor Nguyen's name.
    edited August 2018 watto_cobraddawson100
  • Reply 5 of 18
    Let's even say 10 000 ... really on a population of 2 milj. ... and let's not forget, there would be probably a much lower migration attached to it as I'm sure there would be lots of skilled workers Apple could hire locally.
    Sorry this is pure media attention, these specialists (and I do not doubt their skills) have a way of getting their 5 minutes of attention. They probably need another research grant, such a shame they abuse the situation for their personal agenda.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 18
    Good! Apple should not bring revenue into this crappy state.
    montrosemacspvonk
  • Reply 7 of 18
    ronn said:
    "It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, told U.S. News.  This guy is stuck on stupid.

    FYI, it's interesting the article says the median house price has increased by 50% over last 5 years but I can tell the price of a given house (not a median) has increased maybe 20% over that same period - I know because I live there and you can check Zillow as well.  The RTP area has very affordable housing and does anyone really think Apple adding 5,000 jobs over a few years to a region of 2.1M people is a big problem?  Keep in mind the brainiacs at UNC also wanted all of us out of the suburbs and back into the city because we were ruining the environment.  Ever been to Raleigh and RTP, there are forests everywhere.    
    It doesn't help your point of view when you can't even get the gender of Nguyen right. She's a specialist in Housing and Community Development that lives in works in North Carolina. And as another poster already wrote, she doesn't so much oppose the Apple campus; she's really advocating that the state takes care to accommodate the needs an influx of workers will require -- it doesn't matter if it's 5K or 20K, there will be an impact. This is especially true for infrastructure and the potentially negative outcome for residents, current and future.

    edited to correct professor Nguyen's name.
    The potential addition of Apple is a nonfactor for the Triangle area since we have been dealing with a constant influx of people for 3+ decades just fine.  Ask why this is a problem now and notice the title of the article is "opposition to new Apple campus emerges in North Carolina Research Triangle".  The opposition only originates from the UNC crowd and my point is these people are anti-growth no matter what it is, I have been hearing this same song from the UNC crowd for years on end.  Of course, we will manage the growth, that is obvious and not even a question for the people of the area.  I suppose Prof. Nyguen would be more pleased if the Raleigh area was more like Detroit.  
    SpamSandwichentropyswatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 18
    ronnronn Posts: 320member
    ronn said:
    "It'll be terrible from a housing perspective. We have not planned ahead for that," Mai Thi Nyguen, a professor of city and regional planning at the University of North Carolina, told U.S. News.  This guy is stuck on stupid.

    FYI, it's interesting the article says the median house price has increased by 50% over last 5 years but I can tell the price of a given house (not a median) has increased maybe 20% over that same period - I know because I live there and you can check Zillow as well.  The RTP area has very affordable housing and does anyone really think Apple adding 5,000 jobs over a few years to a region of 2.1M people is a big problem?  Keep in mind the brainiacs at UNC also wanted all of us out of the suburbs and back into the city because we were ruining the environment.  Ever been to Raleigh and RTP, there are forests everywhere.    
    It doesn't help your point of view when you can't even get the gender of Nguyen right. She's a specialist in Housing and Community Development that lives in works in North Carolina. And as another poster already wrote, she doesn't so much oppose the Apple campus; she's really advocating that the state takes care to accommodate the needs an influx of workers will require -- it doesn't matter if it's 5K or 20K, there will be an impact. This is especially true for infrastructure and the potentially negative outcome for residents, current and future.

    edited to correct professor Nguyen's name.
    The potential addition of Apple is a nonfactor for the Triangle area since we have been dealing with a constant influx of people for 3+ decades just fine.  Ask why this is a problem now and notice the title of the article is "opposition to new Apple campus emerges in North Carolina Research Triangle".  The opposition only originates from the UNC crowd and my point is these people are anti-growth no matter what it is, I have been hearing this same song from the UNC crowd for years on end.  Of course, we will manage the growth, that is obvious and not even a question for the people of the area.  I suppose Prof. Nyguen would be more pleased if the Raleigh area was more like Detroit.  
    The headline gets it wrong. Again, Nguyen and others stress the state and local governments need to be prepared for such an influx of projects and the resulting population spikes. Even without Apple and Amazon, the area will see more than 20K jobs added this year alone.

    The area currently cannot keep up with the influx of jobs and associated needs of all those people, and has made it harder for residents and local governments in the area. This has been an ongoing problem for several years. With Apple possibly adding 10-20K jobs and Amazon ~50K should they locate their HQ2 there (not to mention there are others adding locations and jobs at the same time), there needs to be adequate planning.

    With the legislature giving out tax breaks for up to 30 years, where will the financing come from for the necessary infrastructure? Roads, transportation, schools, hospitals, etc. won't pay for itself. Especially since they killed light rail as an option, meaning there will be no Federal grant matching. Taxpayers are not keen on having their taxes raised to pay for infrastructure while these rich corps are being catered to and having their taxes lowered, resulting in higher costs all over the place.
    watto_cobra1983ddawson100
  • Reply 9 of 18
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,862member
    Good! Apple should not bring revenue into this crappy state.
    LOL.
    cornchip
  • Reply 10 of 18
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,882member
    Every time Apple or someone wants to put business center in any good location, there bound to be few who will complain. Just ignore and do what is right for Apple and rest will fall in place. How many times Apple received opposition to put nice retail center. Nothing new here.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 18
    Apple is making a smart decision (as if they do not do that regularly) by planning to build one more campus in the case politicians in Cali decide to tax Apple just a liiiitle MORE (emphasis is on MORE, and not on little). Good!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 18
    jakebjakeb Posts: 557member
    Where’s the opposition? Sounds like they’re just saying that the city will have to do more to get ready for 20k new jobs and the new residents that might come to fill them. 
    ronnwatto_cobraddawson100
  • Reply 13 of 18
    zompzomp Posts: 52member
    Stay out of my state Apple and stop trying to peddle your influence. We don't need you and you need us - we are well aware of your relationship with Duke and the medical center and we know the reason you are coming here is because of your interests in medical devices. So, we have you by the... if you want to make advancements.
  • Reply 14 of 18
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,627member
    Academics are chasing grants from fat corporation. News at eleven.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 18
    So the real issue is that poor planning on the part of the district is the problem but let’s blame Apple for it instead.

    Right, got you. Back to sleep everyone it was only a false alarm.
    watto_cobrastourque
  • Reply 16 of 18
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,423member
    I don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned what happens when any company moves in with a large number of employees.   While states and localities have traditionally encouraged such growth and want the tax dollars, look at Palo Alto and San Francisco's housing prices to see what can happen.  What's happened there is completely ludicrous.   

    If just 20% of the 5000 employees have 1.5 school-aged kids, that's 1500 kids who have to be accommodated.   Depending upon the school size, that can mean 3 to 5 schools.   And if 80% of the employees are new to the area, that's 4000 housing units that would be needed.   That's the equivalent of around 5 23-story large apartment buildings.  

    And if people around you sell their houses to take advantage of high prices caused by the sudden high demand, chances are that your property taxes rise substantially as your property is re-assessed.   Meanwhile, you're still in the same house with the same job earning the same money.   So how do you pay those increased taxes?  

    The downside is that if a locale rejects every large company because of this, it can reduce growth, taxes, employment rates, etc.  

    One away around the issues is to extract a promise from the new company that X% of the employees will be hired locally.   


    ronn
  • Reply 17 of 18
    entropys said:
    Academics are chasing grants from fat corporation. News at eleven.
    Better that, then them chasing grants from the taxpayers. At least, a corporation is gonna make a better choice on what project/research is worth the money, and what is not.
    edited August 2018
  • Reply 18 of 18
    entropys said:
    Academics are chasing grants from fat corporation. News at eleven.
    Better that, then them chasing grants from the taxpayers. At least, a corporation is gonna make a better choice on what project/research is worth the money, and what is not.
    Well, this was tobacco country. Maybe they can make a comeback. After all, a corporation will never lie.
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