2019 iPhone sticking with Face ID, but Android moving to in-screen fingerprint sensors

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  • Reply 61 of 66
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,901member

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:

    Personally I prefer the finger print reader on the back rather than the front. I work from home so the only time i want to touch the front of my phone to unlock it, on my desk, I'm in a "safe" place anyway and my phone is unlocked. I find the reach around (please don't censor me for that phrase) is a more natural position than pressing a home button when I'm carrying my phone. I can see that facial recognition is a better solution so I can't imagine Apple going back but it does limit them to a notch until they can come up with something else.
    I think that’s odd. What you describe is more complex and more subject to moving your finger around the back until you hit the sensor. It’s there, not because it’s better, but because these companies got themselves in a situation where there was no way to put it on the front.
    We've had this discussion many times. What you are saying is incorrect. I once provided you with many examples of phones with rear mounted sensors with ample room on the front for the sensor.

    Here is my last phone:

    http://gsminsider.com/2015/08/huawei-honor-7-goes-official-in-europe-ships-directly-to-customer/

    You do not move your finger around the back until you hit the sensor. You know where it is. Your index finger even falls naturally onto the sensor. My current phone has a front sensor and is nowhere near as convenient, ergonomic or comfortable as my last phone in this regard.

    The rear sensor was never a problem when laying flat on a desk or on a stand either. I had that phone for three years and it was a joy to use.

    Front or rear is preference. Some like it on the back and some like it on the front. 

    Obviously when chins went the way of the dodo they had to go on the back or use an alternative system.
    ‘Ample room” to you, in a picture has nothing to do with internal design. Google abandoned physical buttons years ago. Samsung kept theirs for a while, and dropped it when they extended their screen. So they put the button on the back, in a very bad place, then fixed that problem the next year. If you bothered to read anything when this was first happening, you would have seen that it was necessary, at first. Over time, it became accepted. With the extended screens, it can no longer be done.
    Both Honor and Huawei have lots of models with front and rear designs. It's a trend they developed in line with user studies and feedback and is perhaps the biggest manufacturer of rear mounted sensors. Front or rear, the sensor takes up the same internal space on the phone. As can be seen by all the different models, accomodating them really hasn't been an issue at all and putting them on the rear no doubt allowed them to shave off a little chin, leaving the minimum required for the screen and bottom components.

    The only difference now is that with the trend towards larger screen to body ratios and larger screens, front lower sensors are less manageable in one handed use (only saved only by another trend in aspect ratio which has led to narrower phones). I think we're on the limit here though.

    Both companies are still using both placements though and biometric solutions are more varied than ever before so users really have a lot to choose from and some phones are now including multiple options on the same phone.

    In fact the front facing sensor on my current phone was my sole concern. There was another flagship phone from the same brand with a rear sensor that, all things being equal, would have swayed me but I received a special flash sale offer from a retailer that was difficult to resist.


    Do you get the concept of electronic design? Taking the same room doesn’t mean that that room is available everywhere. It isn’t. Below the screen there is the port which takes up Rome. Usb, even the micro sizes are rhicker than the Lightning port. USB 3 is also thicker. There just isn’t as much room there as you think. You also don’t know how thick the readers are. Most companies buy off the shelf readers because they’re cheaper. They might also be thicker than the dust on, Apple designed Touch ID sensor Apple uses.

    you don’t know. I’m not saying I know either, but it’s a good guess. After googlecremoved the physical buttons from the front bottom, where was the sensor yo go anyway? No company was going to use a sensor button just for that. So, on the back they went.

    last year, when Samsung failed to get the under the screen sensor working, and typically Samsung, they didn’t think about what they would do, they had to put it on the back. But there was no room under the camera, so they shoved it where they were lucky enough to have a spot, beside the lens, on the worst side. I wonder what they would have done if they weren’t lucky enough to have a spot there.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 66
    melgross said:
    backstab said:
    You do not move your finger around the back until you hit the sensor. You know where it is. Your index finger even falls naturally onto the sensor. My current phone has a front sensor and is nowhere near as convenient, ergonomic or comfortable as my last phone in this regard.

    The rear sensor was never a problem when laying flat on a desk or on a stand either. I had that phone for three years and it was a joy to use.

    Front or rear is preference. Some like it on the back and some like it on the front. 

    Obviously when chins went the way of the dodo they had to go on the back or use an alternative

    What if... "You're holding it wrong"ⓒ
    Yeah, very funny. But is was shown that all other phones had the same problem, more or less.
    Hey. I'm witchoo.
  • Reply 63 of 66
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,791member
    davgreg said:.

    If the digital map of your face gets hacked, do you have another to replace it with? People have 10 digits but only one face.

    Apple is changing stuff just to be changing stuff these days and FaceID is the answer to a question few were asking. 
    You definitely 

    1) have no idea how Face ID works and what the Secure Enclave actually is. There is no “digital map” of your face, nor was there a “digital map” of your finger previously. Those “maps” were one of the main reasons early Android fingerprinting was a joke. And iOS wasn’t. 

    2) do not live in a place with seasons. Like, where people wear gloves for months at a time. 
    edited September 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 66
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,791member
    henrybay said:
    FaceID might cause eye damage in the long term. It sends thousands of infrared beams into the retina every day. The cumulative effect of this impact is still unknown (look it up on Google). There is a reason we are told to avoid looking directly at infrared beams, such as laser pointers. I will stick with TouchID and hope that Apple retains it on some models. 
    Wearing clothing may cause tissue damage to our bodies in the long term. It contains thousands of calories of heat energy on our skin every day. Heat energy is extremely damaging to our body tissue. There is a reason we are told to avoid directly touching open fire, such as flame throwers. 
    I will stick with nudism and hope that <insert country here> retains it in some communities. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 66
    LOL...  In a related issue, my grandson refuses to use an iPhone without a home button.   I even took him to an Apple Store where he was shown how well the iPhone X works with just a simple swipe.  So it perplexed me on how stodgy a young man can be.

    Then I realized:   he keeps his iPhone propped up on a little stand in front of him while it plays videos.  So, I am sure that the following scenario plays out on a regular basis:

    Mom:   WHAT ARE YOU WATCHING?!?!?!
    iPhone:   click
    Son:   Nothing
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 66
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,202member
    melgross said:

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:

    Personally I prefer the finger print reader on the back rather than the front. I work from home so the only time i want to touch the front of my phone to unlock it, on my desk, I'm in a "safe" place anyway and my phone is unlocked. I find the reach around (please don't censor me for that phrase) is a more natural position than pressing a home button when I'm carrying my phone. I can see that facial recognition is a better solution so I can't imagine Apple going back but it does limit them to a notch until they can come up with something else.
    I think that’s odd. What you describe is more complex and more subject to moving your finger around the back until you hit the sensor. It’s there, not because it’s better, but because these companies got themselves in a situation where there was no way to put it on the front.
    We've had this discussion many times. What you are saying is incorrect. I once provided you with many examples of phones with rear mounted sensors with ample room on the front for the sensor.

    Here is my last phone:

    http://gsminsider.com/2015/08/huawei-honor-7-goes-official-in-europe-ships-directly-to-customer/

    You do not move your finger around the back until you hit the sensor. You know where it is. Your index finger even falls naturally onto the sensor. My current phone has a front sensor and is nowhere near as convenient, ergonomic or comfortable as my last phone in this regard.

    The rear sensor was never a problem when laying flat on a desk or on a stand either. I had that phone for three years and it was a joy to use.

    Front or rear is preference. Some like it on the back and some like it on the front. 

    Obviously when chins went the way of the dodo they had to go on the back or use an alternative system.
    ‘Ample room” to you, in a picture has nothing to do with internal design. Google abandoned physical buttons years ago. Samsung kept theirs for a while, and dropped it when they extended their screen. So they put the button on the back, in a very bad place, then fixed that problem the next year. If you bothered to read anything when this was first happening, you would have seen that it was necessary, at first. Over time, it became accepted. With the extended screens, it can no longer be done.
    Both Honor and Huawei have lots of models with front and rear designs. It's a trend they developed in line with user studies and feedback and is perhaps the biggest manufacturer of rear mounted sensors. Front or rear, the sensor takes up the same internal space on the phone. As can be seen by all the different models, accomodating them really hasn't been an issue at all and putting them on the rear no doubt allowed them to shave off a little chin, leaving the minimum required for the screen and bottom components.

    The only difference now is that with the trend towards larger screen to body ratios and larger screens, front lower sensors are less manageable in one handed use (only saved only by another trend in aspect ratio which has led to narrower phones). I think we're on the limit here though.

    Both companies are still using both placements though and biometric solutions are more varied than ever before so users really have a lot to choose from and some phones are now including multiple options on the same phone.

    In fact the front facing sensor on my current phone was my sole concern. There was another flagship phone from the same brand with a rear sensor that, all things being equal, would have swayed me but I received a special flash sale offer from a retailer that was difficult to resist.


    Do you get the concept of electronic design? Taking the same room doesn’t mean that that room is available everywhere. It isn’t. Below the screen there is the port which takes up Rome. Usb, even the micro sizes are rhicker than the Lightning port. USB 3 is also thicker. There just isn’t as much room there as you think. You also don’t know how thick the readers are. Most companies buy off the shelf readers because they’re cheaper. They might also be thicker than the dust on, Apple designed Touch ID sensor Apple uses.

    you don’t know. I’m not saying I know either, but it’s a good guess. After googlecremoved the physical buttons from the front bottom, where was the sensor yo go anyway? No company was going to use a sensor button just for that. So, on the back they went.

    last year, when Samsung failed to get the under the screen sensor working, and typically Samsung, they didn’t think about what they would do, they had to put it on the back. But there was no room under the camera, so they shoved it where they were lucky enough to have a spot, beside the lens, on the worst side. I wonder what they would have done if they weren’t lucky enough to have a spot there.
    No need at all to understand the concept of electronic design. Just design. As I said, both Honor and Huawei placed their sensors using feedback and user studies. They said, this phone will have one on the back or front and designed around the decision. The same applied to the headphone jack. When Google removed the physical buttons, their functionality moved to the screen and later the sensor itself too in some cases but even then front placed sensors remained and still do. Micro USB and later USB-C size considerations have had zero effect on the sensor placement. My current phone has a very minimal chin (so little in fact that it is still considered full screen) but still has room for both USB-C and a front facing sensor. Other Honor phones have rear sensors. The only aesthetic consideration was the physical space for the sensor which is so thin that it requires an elongated sensor and regarding handling, even thumb placement to unlock can be awkward for some people who prefer one handed use.

    Obviously there comes a point where even an elongated sensor won't fit. When that happens (it already has on some models) you have to consider other placements and/or options but three years ago when big chins were the norm and not the exception, placement wasn't a technical consideration it was a design consideration. 

    Here is what Honor had to say back in 2016:

    https://www.hihonor.com/in/blogs/safety-security-easy-access-and-more-at-the-touch-of-a-fingertip/123847/index.html


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