Apple, Huawei both using 7nm TSMC processors, beating out Qualcomm and Samsung

124

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 81
    nhtnht Posts: 4,228member
    avon b7 said:
    Why, oh WHY, isn't there a fucking HuaweiInsider website?
    Why, oh WHY, didn't you read the title of this article?

    Why, oh WHY, do a tiny group of people have so many problems accepting that AI can even mention anything beyond Apple?

    Why, oh WHY, do those same people have such a hard time accepting Apple might not be the best at something?

    Why, oh WHY, can't they just accept the facts and live with them?

    Why, oh WHY, must they ALWAYS go on the defensive?

    Yes, why, oh WHY!

    The new Pixels will be here soon. Expect a fair bit of non-Apple Pixel related news on AI.

    Soon after that, the Mate 20 series will arrive. There might even be a word on that too.

    Will you be praying for Pixel Insider too?

    I fear I know the answer to that one already.
    Why oh why are you a troll that won’t go away?
    ericthehalfbeewatto_cobratycho_macuser
  • Reply 62 of 81
    MichaeljiangMichaeljiang Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    The Kirin SoCs use standard ARM technology and cores. The performance is nothing to write home about, as the expression goes.
    They also use designed in-house WiFi, modem, ISP and DSP etc. There is more to a SoC than cores.

    So they designed all the easy stuff. When they design their own CPU or GPU cores then I'll be impressed.

    Cores are, by far, the most important and difficult portion of an SoC to design. By comparison, a NPU is simple to create compared to a CPU.
    The modem is the Most difficult part in a phone. unless apple can design their own modem instead of relying on intel, I wouldn't consider they are better than Huawei who has integrated modem in the soc.
  • Reply 63 of 81
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,696member
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    The Kirin SoCs use standard ARM technology and cores. The performance is nothing to write home about, as the expression goes.
    They also use designed in-house WiFi, modem, ISP and DSP etc. There is more to a SoC than cores.
    So they designed all the easy stuff. When they design their own CPU or GPU cores then I'll be impressed.

    Cores are, by far, the most important and difficult portion of an SoC to design. By comparison, a NPU is simple to create compared to a CPU.
    If it is so easy, why is Apple behind?
    Apple is often behind in many of the superficial benchmarks that people look at. They don't care if they have the most RAM because they've put in the hard work to make their OS more efficient and design their own chips right down to the core in order to further take advantage of that synergy all to allow for better efficiency.
    That doesn't change the observation. If this is the 'easy stuff' (and let's be honest, modems and WiFi are key smartphone areas), why hasn't Apple corrected the situation?
    I’d bet that 99% of the time, you wouldn’t see any difference in those areas at all. It’s not important. When almost no one can get much more than 30Mb/s from most any network, it doesn’t matter that in the edge cases, there’s a difference. So if one modem can get to 800Mb/s, and another to 500Mb/s, the real time speeds where the real download speed is 25Mb/s will be the same. 
    You would bet wrong.

    The new iPhone XS modem is where the Mate 10 was last year. As you have read right here, there is a noticeable difference between the new X and the old X. In fact, during the US presentation of the Mate 10, they gave download speeds from San Francisco and compared them directly to the iPhone X. The difference we are seeing between the new iPhones was the same back in 2017.

    Of course, your surrounding infrastructure will impact your results but there are plenty or networks out there that can deliver speeds that prove the noticeable benefits offered by gigabit modems. Before 5G, many networks will be upgraded to 4.5G (many already are) and anyone with a gigabit modem will notice the difference.

    The GPS tracking was also demonstrated during the Mate 10 presentation and it was pitted against the iPhone X. The iPhone lost its connection in tough scenarios. The Mate 10 was able to hold onto its position for satnav for example.

    As for Wi-Fi, I doubt you will challenge Huawei's pedigree in this field so I think it is fair to imagine that the Hi1103 will deliver as Huawei has a virtually stellar record with wifi.

    On top of that Huawei has put a lot of effort into beamforming tech in cell towers and the antenna setups on phones are built with the exact same knowledge so its fair to say people with Huawei phones will benefit. Remember, Huawei tested performance on high speed rail travel over 300,000 km of testing in Germany and China.

    All of these areas are where users 'notice' the difference. Often it is in these areas where dropping call, achieving faster transfers or having less interference is noticed more.


  • Reply 64 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,125member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    The Kirin SoCs use standard ARM technology and cores. The performance is nothing to write home about, as the expression goes.
    They also use designed in-house WiFi, modem, ISP and DSP etc. There is more to a SoC than cores.

    So they designed all the easy stuff. When they design their own CPU or GPU cores then I'll be impressed.

    Cores are, by far, the most important and difficult portion of an SoC to design. By comparison, a NPU is simple to create compared to a CPU.
    The modem is the Most difficult part in a phone. unless apple can design their own modem instead of relying on intel, I wouldn't consider they are better than Huawei who has integrated modem in the soc.
    I would say fair enough, but as I posted above, Apple has not only, and again, the most powerful smartphone processor for this generation at 7nm, but they have leveraged those skills and abilities into a 64 bit SOC for the Apple Watch, and developed a myriad assortment of processors for all of the breadth of its product lines, and these are generating new and substantial revenue streams. Again, I note that we still haven't seen the A12X for the new iPad Pro's, operating without the same thermal constraints of the iPhone.

    Considering that Huawei is expanding into a zero sum Android OS device makers market, being first with communication abilities that won't be supported by infrastructure for some time isn't going to translate into increased sales, other than to take away market share from Samsung, and even that, will have limits. 

    More to the point, do you really think that cellular technology from Qualcomm and Samsung will be insufficient to compete with Huawei? Yeah, Intel is behind in modem's, but it will hardly dent Apple's market in the real world.
    edited October 3 watto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 81
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    The Kirin SoCs use standard ARM technology and cores. The performance is nothing to write home about, as the expression goes.
    They also use designed in-house WiFi, modem, ISP and DSP etc. There is more to a SoC than cores.

    So they designed all the easy stuff. When they design their own CPU or GPU cores then I'll be impressed.

    Cores are, by far, the most important and difficult portion of an SoC to design. By comparison, a NPU is simple to create compared to a CPU.
    The modem is the Most difficult part in a phone. unless apple can design their own modem instead of relying on intel, I wouldn't consider they are better than Huawei who has integrated modem in the soc.

    Liar.

    And a one-post troll to boot. Like we haven't seen our share of these over the years.
    watto_cobratycho_macuser
  • Reply 66 of 81
    avon b7 said:
    Why, oh WHY, isn't there a fucking HuaweiInsider website?
    Why, oh WHY, didn't you read the title of this article?

    Why, oh WHY, do a tiny group of people have so many problems accepting that AI can even mention anything beyond Apple?

    Why, oh WHY, do those same people have such a hard time accepting Apple might not be the best at something?

    Why, oh WHY, can't they just accept the facts and live with them?

    Why, oh WHY, must they ALWAYS go on the defensive?

    Yes, why, oh WHY!

    The new Pixels will be here soon. Expect a fair bit of non-Apple Pixel related news on AI.

    Soon after that, the Mate 20 series will arrive. There might even be a word on that too.

    Will you be praying for Pixel Insider too?

    I fear I know the answer to that one already.

    It's one thing for AI to have an article on the competition (which they regularly do). It's quite another to have a troll/shill who tries to weasel their way into EVERY SINGLE FUCKING iPhone thread.

    The difference between you and the rest of us is we don't spend all day on Android/Samsung/Google sites promoting iPhones in all their threads.

    You're a troll, plain and simple.
    tmaynhtwatto_cobratycho_macuser
  • Reply 67 of 81
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,696member
    avon b7 said:
    Why, oh WHY, isn't there a fucking HuaweiInsider website?
    Why, oh WHY, didn't you read the title of this article?

    Why, oh WHY, do a tiny group of people have so many problems accepting that AI can even mention anything beyond Apple?

    Why, oh WHY, do those same people have such a hard time accepting Apple might not be the best at something?

    Why, oh WHY, can't they just accept the facts and live with them?

    Why, oh WHY, must they ALWAYS go on the defensive?

    Yes, why, oh WHY!

    The new Pixels will be here soon. Expect a fair bit of non-Apple Pixel related news on AI.

    Soon after that, the Mate 20 series will arrive. There might even be a word on that too.

    Will you be praying for Pixel Insider too?

    I fear I know the answer to that one already.

    It's one thing for AI to have an article on the competition (which they regularly do). It's quite another to have a troll/shill who tries to weasel their way into EVERY SINGLE FUCKING iPhone thread.

    The difference between you and the rest of us is we don't spend all day on Android/Samsung/Google sites promoting iPhones in all their threads.

    You're a troll, plain and simple.
    Every single thread? And you capitalise it!?

    Take a break. Read what you are posting and reflect. 

    Look at your posts. You can't run around calling people names, making accusations and then get upset when you are taken to task as a result.

    I'd say I read around 50% of the threads and post in around less than 10%. Even if I wildly disagree with some comments I don't post just for the sake of it. I let it go.

    Why not do the same then do some tallying up and post back your results, if if only to back up your absurd claims. It's easy enough to do.


  • Reply 68 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,032member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    edited October 3 watto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,032member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:

    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    The Kirin SoCs use standard ARM technology and cores. The performance is nothing to write home about, as the expression goes.
    They also use designed in-house WiFi, modem, ISP and DSP etc. There is more to a SoC than cores.
    Meh, their chips don’t have a great reputation. The 970 is behind the i35, much less the contemporary 845. The 980 will be behind Apple, Qualcomm and Samsung, as usual. Their AI section is a couple of years behind too. Not impressed.

    its good that they try though. Someday they’ll get it right.
    Strange conclusion.

    Last year's Kirin 970 had better NPU performance and a Cat 18 modem. The best phone of the year on many fronts is still the P20 Pro - which has a Kirin 970. That's hardly 'meh' worthy. Apple, even with its new SoC is just catching up with the modem, but is still lagging.

    The Kirin 980  has a Cat 19 modem and an ultra fast (I believe it's -or will be shortly- the fastest on a phone) wi-fi chipset. The co-processors, dual ISPs and DSP are sure to be no slouches either. That puts your 'still behind' comment into context.

    You realise that the 970 was shipping around five months before the 845 and Huawei deliberately chose to launch without the latest ARM cores for questions of maturity and stability? Are you surprised that the 845 produces better numbers? That didn't stop them from releasing the phone of the year.

    I don't know what 'don't have a great reputation' is supposed to mean.
    Not strange at all, go look at the tests yourself. Oops! Be careful as most of them add to the results because of Huawei’s cheating. Even so, it not great.

    its funny that you’re so sure about the performance of this chip that isn’t out yet, but by the specs, will not be a top performing device. Huawei can’t produce their own cores, so they use whatever ARM licenses directly. Don’t make pitiful excuses.
    Excuses? Nope. This is a solid upgrade but don't take my word for it: 

    ”The Kirin 980 really does look like it’s on its way to be an exceptionally well balanced SoC with major improvements in every regard"

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/13298/hisilicon-announces-the-kirin-980-first-a76-g76-on-7nm/2

    This is the first SoC to use ARM's latest cores and GPU. I take it you are suggesting they are 'nothing to write home about'. The rest is largely Huawei produced, including the modem, ISP, DSP, etc

    I believe the modem is actually Cat 21.

    I'm not 'so sure' about the performance of the chip but from the specs alone, we can safely assume that the modem and WiFi will deliver. Do you doubt that things like dual frequency GPS won't offer any improvements?

    As for the phone the SoC will debut on, even if only half the rumours are true, it will be anything but 'meh'.
    Oh look, our favorite knock-off cheerleader is here bragging about yet another chinese knockoff that doesn't even exist yet. "But it's better than Apple!!" 

    Can't wait until you find some other home to waste time on.
    Rumours are rumours and should be taken for what they are. The Kirin 980 is real. The Cat 21 modem is real. The dual frequency GPS is real. The WiFi chip is real. The ISPs and DSPs are real.

    I think most people actually accept this. 

    Incessantly calling everything a knock-off just shows how blind you are to reality but that is your problem. That reality is, and has been, staring you in the face for a while. You just refuse to accept it. Perhaps you simply can't accept it.

    Apple is behind in the areas I mentioned.
    The look of the phone is a complete knockoff. That’s been stated in a lot of places. Don’t bother to comment on that. But the rest isn’t. It’s just nothing great either.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,125member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Why, oh WHY, isn't there a fucking HuaweiInsider website?
    Why, oh WHY, didn't you read the title of this article?

    Why, oh WHY, do a tiny group of people have so many problems accepting that AI can even mention anything beyond Apple?

    Why, oh WHY, do those same people have such a hard time accepting Apple might not be the best at something?

    Why, oh WHY, can't they just accept the facts and live with them?

    Why, oh WHY, must they ALWAYS go on the defensive?

    Yes, why, oh WHY!

    The new Pixels will be here soon. Expect a fair bit of non-Apple Pixel related news on AI.

    Soon after that, the Mate 20 series will arrive. There might even be a word on that too.

    Will you be praying for Pixel Insider too?

    I fear I know the answer to that one already.

    It's one thing for AI to have an article on the competition (which they regularly do). It's quite another to have a troll/shill who tries to weasel their way into EVERY SINGLE FUCKING iPhone thread.

    The difference between you and the rest of us is we don't spend all day on Android/Samsung/Google sites promoting iPhones in all their threads.

    You're a troll, plain and simple.
    Every single thread? And you capitalise it!?

    Take a break. Read what you are posting and reflect. 

    Look at your posts. You can't run around calling people names, making accusations and then get upset when you are taken to task as a result.

    I'd say I read around 50% of the threads and post in around less than 10%. Even if I wildly disagree with some comments I don't post just for the sake of it. I let it go.

    Why not do the same then do some tallying up and post back your results, if if only to back up your absurd claims. It's easy enough to do.


    When your arguments to deflect Apple's prowess in SOC's revolve around Huawei's advanced cellular capabilities, something that both Qualcomm and Samsung would dispute, then I have to ask why again, why are you here? 

    Apple's foray into custom semiconductors is an acknowledged winning strategy; Huawei's cellular lead doesn't have the same impact in the marketplace.


    Edit;

    Even though I don't take much stock in Dxomark, it looks like the P20 Pro's lead in the metrics is down to only 4 points, second place going to the iPhone XS Max, and the Pixel 3 is still on the horizon, I'm thinking that Huawei's strategy to be the "feature leader" of the Android OS market, twice a year, isn't working out all that well.


    edited October 3 watto_cobratycho_macuser
  • Reply 71 of 81
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,265member
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    I'm denying what specifically Mel? Don't be vague. Are you still not reading before tossing stuff out in a post?

    With at least two things or three things you've stated to be fact in this thread that are not I think the one closer to "not knowing about any of this" is staring at you from the mirror. 
    edited October 3 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 72 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,032member
    avon b7 said:
    melgross said:
    The Kirin SoCs use standard ARM technology and cores. The performance is nothing to write home about, as the expression goes.
    They also use designed in-house WiFi, modem, ISP and DSP etc. There is more to a SoC than cores.

    So they designed all the easy stuff. When they design their own CPU or GPU cores then I'll be impressed.

    Cores are, by far, the most important and difficult portion of an SoC to design. By comparison, a NPU is simple to create compared to a CPU.
    The modem is the Most difficult part in a phone. unless apple can design their own modem instead of relying on intel, I wouldn't consider they are better than Huawei who has integrated modem in the soc.
    That’s absurd.
    watto_cobratycho_macuser
  • Reply 73 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,032member

    Those aren’t facts. They’re acts to you, in your quest to show apple up in pretty much everything. But you get it al wrong again. gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    I'm denying what specifically Mel? Don't be vague. Are you still not reading before tossing stuff out in a post?

    With at least two things or three things you've stated to be fact in this thread that are not I think the one closer to "not knowing about any of this" is staring at you from the mirror. 
    I laid out the facts, which are pretty much well known. Then photo says it all by itself.
    edited October 3 watto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 81
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,265member
    melgross said:

    Those aren’t facts. They’re acts to you, in your quest to show apple up in pretty much everything. But you get it al wrong again. gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    I'm denying what specifically Mel? Don't be vague. Are you still not reading before tossing stuff out in a post?

    With at least two things or three things you've stated to be fact in this thread that are not I think the one closer to "not knowing about any of this" is staring at you from the mirror. 

    So ya got nuttin...
    Personally I would have avoided continuing I'm right when it's obvious I've lost, admitted to a mistake as I have before when it's happened to me and moved on. You might try that. 
  • Reply 75 of 81
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,696member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Why, oh WHY, isn't there a fucking HuaweiInsider website?
    Why, oh WHY, didn't you read the title of this article?

    Why, oh WHY, do a tiny group of people have so many problems accepting that AI can even mention anything beyond Apple?

    Why, oh WHY, do those same people have such a hard time accepting Apple might not be the best at something?

    Why, oh WHY, can't they just accept the facts and live with them?

    Why, oh WHY, must they ALWAYS go on the defensive?

    Yes, why, oh WHY!

    The new Pixels will be here soon. Expect a fair bit of non-Apple Pixel related news on AI.

    Soon after that, the Mate 20 series will arrive. There might even be a word on that too.

    Will you be praying for Pixel Insider too?

    I fear I know the answer to that one already.

    It's one thing for AI to have an article on the competition (which they regularly do). It's quite another to have a troll/shill who tries to weasel their way into EVERY SINGLE FUCKING iPhone thread.

    The difference between you and the rest of us is we don't spend all day on Android/Samsung/Google sites promoting iPhones in all their threads.

    You're a troll, plain and simple.
    Every single thread? And you capitalise it!?

    Take a break. Read what you are posting and reflect. 

    Look at your posts. You can't run around calling people names, making accusations and then get upset when you are taken to task as a result.

    I'd say I read around 50% of the threads and post in around less than 10%. Even if I wildly disagree with some comments I don't post just for the sake of it. I let it go.

    Why not do the same then do some tallying up and post back your results, if if only to back up your absurd claims. It's easy enough to do.


    When your arguments to deflect Apple's prowess in SOC's revolve around Huawei's advanced cellular capabilities, something that both Qualcomm and Samsung would dispute, then I have to ask why again, why are you here? 

    Apple's foray into custom semiconductors is an acknowledged winning strategy; Huawei's cellular lead doesn't have the same impact in the marketplace.


    Edit;

    Even though I don't take much stock in Dxomark, it looks like the P20 Pro's lead in the metrics is down to only 4 points, second place going to the iPhone XS Max, and the Pixel 3 is still on the horizon, I'm thinking that Huawei's strategy to be the "feature leader" of the Android OS market, twice a year, isn't working out all that well.


    Well. That score landed behind the P20 Pro  (which has been out for months now) and will not budge until September next year.

    Given that so much time was dedicated to photographic improvements on the new iPhones,  camera performance is clearly a major area. Seeing that camera performance fall behind a competitor right from launch is a big issue.

    Moreso when the Mate 20 is just days away from release and could jump even further ahead. We'll have to wait and see.

    If we look on the bright side, I very much doubt phone users see their cameras as lacking and have few complaints about quality

    The problem is, if you want the best in key areas, a top of the line iPhone can be seen as not delivering in those areas and they are biggies. Also, it isn't just about photo quality now. It's also photo ability (x3 zoom, x5 hybrid zoom, AIIS, night mode etc).

    By the time MWC2019 hits, the panorama will be vastly different to even now and competition will be flat out fierce. Yes, that means from Samsung too. All very welcome and absolutely necessary.

    As I said earlier, I don't really want to talk about rumours but some of them are eye opening. We will just have to wait and see how much proves to be well founded, and more importantly, if the features actually work well.

    There is no doubt that the P20 Pro has been the phone of the year so far and delivered on its major promises.

    I think the new iPhone release is a solid release in spite of not being able to afford even the baby in the range and you know my opinion on that.


    edited October 3
  • Reply 76 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,125member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Why, oh WHY, isn't there a fucking HuaweiInsider website?
    Why, oh WHY, didn't you read the title of this article?

    Why, oh WHY, do a tiny group of people have so many problems accepting that AI can even mention anything beyond Apple?

    Why, oh WHY, do those same people have such a hard time accepting Apple might not be the best at something?

    Why, oh WHY, can't they just accept the facts and live with them?

    Why, oh WHY, must they ALWAYS go on the defensive?

    Yes, why, oh WHY!

    The new Pixels will be here soon. Expect a fair bit of non-Apple Pixel related news on AI.

    Soon after that, the Mate 20 series will arrive. There might even be a word on that too.

    Will you be praying for Pixel Insider too?

    I fear I know the answer to that one already.

    It's one thing for AI to have an article on the competition (which they regularly do). It's quite another to have a troll/shill who tries to weasel their way into EVERY SINGLE FUCKING iPhone thread.

    The difference between you and the rest of us is we don't spend all day on Android/Samsung/Google sites promoting iPhones in all their threads.

    You're a troll, plain and simple.
    Every single thread? And you capitalise it!?

    Take a break. Read what you are posting and reflect. 

    Look at your posts. You can't run around calling people names, making accusations and then get upset when you are taken to task as a result.

    I'd say I read around 50% of the threads and post in around less than 10%. Even if I wildly disagree with some comments I don't post just for the sake of it. I let it go.

    Why not do the same then do some tallying up and post back your results, if if only to back up your absurd claims. It's easy enough to do.


    When your arguments to deflect Apple's prowess in SOC's revolve around Huawei's advanced cellular capabilities, something that both Qualcomm and Samsung would dispute, then I have to ask why again, why are you here? 

    Apple's foray into custom semiconductors is an acknowledged winning strategy; Huawei's cellular lead doesn't have the same impact in the marketplace.


    Edit;

    Even though I don't take much stock in Dxomark, it looks like the P20 Pro's lead in the metrics is down to only 4 points, second place going to the iPhone XS Max, and the Pixel 3 is still on the horizon, I'm thinking that Huawei's strategy to be the "feature leader" of the Android OS market, twice a year, isn't working out all that well.


    Well. That score landed behind the P20 Pro  (which has been out for months now) and will not budge until September next year.

    Given that so much time was dedicated to photographic improvements on the new iPhones,  camera performance is clearly a major area. Seeing that camera performance fall behind a competitor right from launch is a big issue.

    Moreso when the Mate 20 is just days away from release and could jump even further ahead. We'll have to wait and see.

    If we look on the bright side, I very much doubt phone users see their cameras as lacking and have few complaints about quality

    The problem is, if you want the best in key areas, a top of the line iPhone can be seen as not delivering in those areas and they are biggies. Also, it isn't just about photo quality now. It's also photo ability (x3 zoom, x5 hybrid zoom, AIIS, night mode etc).

    By the time MWC2019 hits, the panorama will be vastly different to even now and competition will be flat out fierce. Yes, that means from Samsung too. All very welcome and absolutely necessary.

    As I said earlier, I don't really want to talk about rumours but some of them are eye opening. We will just have to wait and see how much proves to be well founded, and more importantly, if the features actually work well.

    There is no doubt that the P20 Pro has been the phone of the year so far and delivered on its major promises.

    I think the new iPhone release is a solid release in spite of not being able to afford even the baby in the range and you know my opinion on that.


    Not really caring about your point of view, but data from another AI link points to the big Huawei seller in July as the P20 Lite, followed by the iPhone X and the iPhone 8; not sure how the P20 Pro is selling, but, not as good as Apple's "old" phones.

    iPhone in France Q2

    Pretty sure that Apple will do fine with the iPhone X models inspite of the Mate 20 arriving.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 81
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 195member
    JWSC said:
    tjwolf said:
    "HiSilicon advised it was planning to spend a minimum of $300 million on a system-on-chip design using 7-nanometer technology, illustrating the potentially high costs involved in working at that level."  I have no idea what the author is talking about here.  Why would it cost any more to *design* at 7nm than at 10nm?  I'm pretty sure the high costs/complexity is mostly on the manufacturing side.
    Since wafer manufacturers are approaching the limits of fundamental physics with regard to circuit density, I will posit that wafer manufacturability is 100% contingent on the physical design of the integrated circuit.  They’re probably having to experiment with a variety of design approaches using width, thickness, layering, different material properties and doping to achieve any kind of performance and reliability.  It’s always been hard to miniaturize.  But it’s harder than ever now and takes more resources to accomplish.
    Being design enginner in that area (only originally and not active for years) I heard that story already in '90. Good fairy tale. Not to be bought. The real limit is temporary with tools.... as usually. Yeah phuysics limits... and then we went magnitudes smaller over decades.
    If it’s a fairy tale please elaborate and share your wisdom.  Enquiring minds want to know.

    BTW, while I never did silicon, I used to do schematic capture and CCA layout back in the day.  Different ballgame I know.  But I’m not a complete ijit with regards to this stuff.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 78 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,032member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:

    Those aren’t facts. They’re acts to you, in your quest to show apple up in pretty much everything. But you get it al wrong again. gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    I'm denying what specifically Mel? Don't be vague. Are you still not reading before tossing stuff out in a post?

    With at least two things or three things you've stated to be fact in this thread that are not I think the one closer to "not knowing about any of this" is staring at you from the mirror. 

    So ya got nuttin...
    Personally I would have avoided continuing I'm right when it's obvious I've lost, admitted to a mistake as I have before when it's happened to me and moved on. You might try that. 
    Except that I’m not wrong.
    edited October 3 watto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 81
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,265member
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:

    Those aren’t facts. They’re acts to you, in your quest to show apple up in pretty much everything. But you get it al wrong again. gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    I'm denying what specifically Mel? Don't be vague. Are you still not reading before tossing stuff out in a post?

    With at least two things or three things you've stated to be fact in this thread that are not I think the one closer to "not knowing about any of this" is staring at you from the mirror. 

    So ya got nuttin...
    Personally I would have avoided continuing I'm right when it's obvious I've lost, admitted to a mistake as I have before when it's happened to me and moved on. You might try that. 
    Except that I’m not wrong.
    1. Well then show me where Apple sued Andy Rubin as you claim.
    2. Show me where he was working on the iPhone and iPad when he worked for Apple from 1990-92 as you claim.
    3. Show me how "Android from it's inception" was only a response to the already existing iPhone and iOS seeing as neither one existed or were even rumored back then. 

     That's three. Should I wait? 
    You're three times wrong in one thread which isn't a great showing,  but you think it's a wonderful idea to call attention to it by pushing the story of just how right you are despite all that?

    Well OK then.... Please carry on. 
    edited October 3
  • Reply 80 of 81
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,032member
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:

    Those aren’t facts. They’re acts to you, in your quest to show apple up in pretty much everything. But you get it al wrong again. gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    melgross said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    Kuo writes the move to the 7-nanometer Kirin 980 helps Huawei narrow the gap between itself and Apple "in terms of user experience," as well as differentiating its products from other Android-based smartphone vendors. 

    How can it help them "narrow the gap" when they're still relying on an inferior operating system and App ecosystem?
    In theory, Google will have the same advantage, given time, but I'm not sure they can exploit it and keep Android OS nominally "open".
    From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone. Google got it wrong from the start (and had to quickly and hectically correct mistake after that first Jobs presentation) and they continue getting it wrong every time and still need Apple’s “inspiration” to stay on the path. And that is for one simple reason - they do not have a coherent vision/plan....just like good old Sammy,
    iOS wasn't even a rumor much less "a thing" when Google began developing Android as a smartphone OS. 
    Is that why Google completely missed the mark and had to start from scratch after Apple presented the  iPhone 1?
    My bet is Google got someone at Apple to leak a bit of info on what Apple was doing. It wasnt a lot of info, and as Apple was very secretive (for a good reason).
    My guess is that you're a lousy guesser. :)
    Go back and do a little history searching. 

    EDIT: This is a pretty good summation of how it all started.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-android-was-created-2015-3
    Sorry, but Anton is correct. Android. As envisioned by Andy Rubin, and Google, after they bought Rubin’s company, was the Blackberry. This is so well understood, that reading anything to the contrary isn’t worth the time.

    and yes, Google pretty much started over with the UI after the iPhone was shown. 
    LOL... You didn't even bother reading what he wrote before saying he was right did you? Go back and look at his post, #14.
    Anton said, quoting: " From its inception, Android was only a response to an already existing iOS and iPhone."

    Read your history.... At Android's inception there was no iPhone. There was no iOS. But there was Microsoft. 
    It’s not necessary to have read that. ho ho ho, to you too. You really don’t know about any of this, do you? The facts are right there, and you still deny it.
    I'm denying what specifically Mel? Don't be vague. Are you still not reading before tossing stuff out in a post?

    With at least two things or three things you've stated to be fact in this thread that are not I think the one closer to "not knowing about any of this" is staring at you from the mirror. 

    So ya got nuttin...
    Personally I would have avoided continuing I'm right when it's obvious I've lost, admitted to a mistake as I have before when it's happened to me and moved on. You might try that. 
    Except that I’m not wrong.
    1. Well then show me where Apple sued Andy Rubin as you claim.
    2. Show me where he was working on the iPhone and iPad when he worked for Apple from 1990-92 as you claim.
    3. Show me how "Android from it's inception" was only a response to the already existing iPhone and iOS seeing as neither one existed or were even rumored back then. 

     That's three. Should I wait? 
    You're three times wrong in one thread which isn't a great showing,  but you think it's a wonderful idea to call attention to it by pushing the story of just how right you are despite all that?

    Well OK then.... Please carry on. 
    You’re only really right in one thing here. Yes, Andy’s company wasn’t sued. It was HTC that was sued over it. But Andy did infringe. 

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/11/09/02/court_documents_allege_googles_andy_rubin_conceived_of_android_while_at_apple
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