I as Apple telling you everyone including US congress that there was no spying by Chinese. Now, leave us alone as we have to do business in China and can't afford to alienate upset Chinese government.
You have hallucination. Go see a doctor to get some drugs.
It is fact that Chinese government(state run agencies) have stake in many Chinese corporation. Everyone knows that Chinese government also employs many to hack into network of foreign companies and steal design,plans, trade secret,etc. Chinese government makes it harder for others to do business in China, Than, overlook Chinese companies copying other's products,,stealing IP. Basically China has no respect of others hard work and R&D cost but wants to get ahead with whatever works for them. This is fact and if anyone is delusional about it than they need help from mental professional. USA has enough with China and all of these long standing issues became the part of trade war between US-China..
Your words contradict with Bloomberg. Bloomberg thinks Chinese government is technologically very advanced that it can hack Apple servers. Then why Chinese government needs to steal from foreign companies? Contradiction, contradiction, contradiction.
If the Chinese do have a device that is the size of a grain of rice and can hack any network and transmit data back to China without being detected, then I have to wonder why they're wasting their time stealing Western IP?
And if they do have such a chip then hacking Apple is the very least we should be worried about.
... If China is so advanced than why hack Apple ? ...
That question has come up a number of times.
The answer: Apple has a ton -- no, many, many tons -- of very valuable information on their servers.
Russia did it in 2016 and is doing it again this year for this election. Plus, private and corporate information can be even more valuable.
I as Apple telling you everyone including US congress that there was no spying by Chinese. Now, leave us alone as we have to do business in China and can't afford to alienate upset Chinese government.
You have hallucination. Go see a doctor to get some drugs.
It is fact that Chinese government(state run agencies) have stake in many Chinese corporation. Everyone knows that Chinese government also employs many to hack into network of foreign companies and steal design,plans, trade secret,etc. Chinese government makes it harder for others to do business in China, Than, overlook Chinese companies copying other's products,,stealing IP. Basically China has no respect of others hard work and R&D cost but wants to get ahead with whatever works for them. This is fact and if anyone is delusional about it than they need help from mental professional. USA has enough with China and all of these long standing issues became the part of trade war between US-China..
Yes but what makes you delusional is suggesting that Apple is lying about being the victim of state IP theft just to keep China happy. That is delusional.
I as Apple telling you everyone including US congress that there was no spying by Chinese. Now, leave us alone as we have to do business in China and can't afford to alienate upset Chinese government.
You have hallucination. Go see a doctor to get some drugs.
It is fact that Chinese government(state run agencies) have stake in many Chinese corporation. Everyone knows that Chinese government also employs many to hack into network of foreign companies and steal design,plans, trade secret,etc. Chinese government makes it harder for others to do business in China, Than, overlook Chinese companies copying other's products,,stealing IP. Basically China has no respect of others hard work and R&D cost but wants to get ahead with whatever works for them. This is fact and if anyone is delusional about it than they need help from mental professional. USA has enough with China and all of these long standing issues became the part of trade war between US-China..
Your words contradict with Bloomberg. Bloomberg thinks Chinese government is technologically very advanced that it can hack Apple servers. Then why Chinese government needs to steal from foreign companies? Contradiction, contradiction, contradiction.
If the Chinese do have a device that is the size of a grain of rice and can hack any network and transmit data back to China without being detected, then I have to wonder why they're wasting their time stealing Western IP?
And if they do have such a chip then hacking Apple is the very least we should be worried about.
Apple deny such spying because if Apple agrees than it becomes nightmare appearing in front of senate,congregational committees that gives bad,bad rep like facebook facing. On top, alienate Chinese hurting their business in China.
Nope, that is absurd. It’s a crime for Apple to lie to investors, and when the truth comes out they’d all lose their jobs and reputations. They aren’t going to do that just to make China happy, or to avoid going to a congressional committee — something they’ve already done for other topics.
The more fascinating angle is the possibility, if all the denials are true, that Bloomberg was the victim of an elaborate and sophisticated long con. The 64 million dollar question is then who would want to orchestrate such an operation against Bloomberg and why?
I as Apple telling you everyone including US congress that there was no spying by Chinese. Now, leave us alone as we have to do business in China and can't afford to alienate upset Chinese government.
You have hallucination. Go see a doctor to get some drugs.
It is fact that Chinese government(state run agencies) have stake in many Chinese corporation. Everyone knows that Chinese government also employs many to hack into network of foreign companies and steal design,plans, trade secret,etc. Chinese government makes it harder for others to do business in China, Than, overlook Chinese companies copying other's products,,stealing IP. Basically China has no respect of others hard work and R&D cost but wants to get ahead with whatever works for them. This is fact and if anyone is delusional about it than they need help from mental professional. USA has enough with China and all of these long standing issues became the part of trade war between US-China..
Your words contradict with Bloomberg. Bloomberg thinks Chinese government is technologically very advanced that it can hack Apple servers. Then why Chinese government needs to steal from foreign companies? Contradiction, contradiction, contradiction.
If the Chinese do have a device that is the size of a grain of rice and can hack any network and transmit data back to China without being detected, then I have to wonder why they're wasting their time stealing Western IP?
And if they do have such a chip then hacking Apple is the very least we should be worried about.
Apple deny such spying because if Apple agrees than it becomes nightmare appearing in front of senate,congregational committees that gives bad,bad rep like facebook facing. On top, alienate Chinese hurting their business in China.
Nope, that is absurd. It’s a crime for Apple to lie to investors, and when the truth comes out they’d all lose their jobs and reputations. They aren’t going to do that just to make China happy, or to avoid going to a congressional committee — something they’ve already done for other topics.
Thats just conspirscy theory nonsense.
That guy has delusion like Bloomberg. Or as I told many friends in many years, nearly all people are computer idiots.
I as Apple telling you everyone including US congress that there was no spying by Chinese. Now, leave us alone as we have to do business in China and can't afford to alienate upset Chinese government.
You have hallucination. Go see a doctor to get some drugs.
It is fact that Chinese government(state run agencies) have stake in many Chinese corporation. Everyone knows that Chinese government also employs many to hack into network of foreign companies and steal design,plans, trade secret,etc. Chinese government makes it harder for others to do business in China, Than, overlook Chinese companies copying other's products,,stealing IP. Basically China has no respect of others hard work and R&D cost but wants to get ahead with whatever works for them. This is fact and if anyone is delusional about it than they need help from mental professional. USA has enough with China and all of these long standing issues became the part of trade war between US-China..
Chinese govt involved in Chinese companies + Chinese gov’t has hacker employees = Chinese gov’t putting microchip on manufacturer motherboards for servers.
Cool. I can do that too.
Some people think that cowboy hats are gay + Cowboy hats are worn by people = Anyone that wears a cowboy hat is gay.
This chip, which is now as small as a sharpened pencil tip, incorporates, processing, memory and networking capability.
When the server is switched on, this chip will alter the operating system's core (any operating system?) so that it will accept remotely transmitted payloads without being detected. The chip can also transmit commands without being detected and can accept instructions from the hacker, also without being detected.
(⊙_☉)
I think Bloomberg really needs to start forking over a bit of solid evidence now.
dewme said: One obvious red herring in Bloomberg's claim is the "grain of rice" thing. Think about how easy it would be to stuff a whole raft of intelligent processing logic inside the form factor of one of the very large components already on a server board, like a bigass electrolytic filter capacitor. Why would anyone go to the trouble of adding a new component that can be detected via visual inspection when an existing component with sufficient volume can be repurposed, even without altering its original purpose? Then there are heatsinks, fans, connectors, transformers, etc. Lots of large components available for spoofing. Have you seen the massive heatsink-fan combinations used on modern CPUs? Why bother with a grain of rice challenge when there are so many other real estate opportunities hidden in plain sight.
None of those larger components have sufficient access to the the motherboard/memory/storage/network etc. It would have to be actually on the circuit board.
While I doubt the story is true, I would not put it past the Chinese to try.
With so many blade servers needed by the big data providers, it would be logical to consider manufacturing them in house. It could actually save money. Of course the US would need to reestablish mining of Thorium and other not-so-rare Earth elements because the only source now is China. But to the question of who would spread such a rumor, one only has to look at the the proponents of the current trade war with China. This whole China issue was brought about by US corporate greed beginning many years ago. "For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."
I have said this before, Apple as publicly traded company can not made any false statement like claiming they were not compromises in any fashion, because if it was true they could easily be sued for their statements. Apple is not going to lie and say it never happen when in fact it did. If something was going on Apple would have kept its mouth shut or provide some generic statement.
We now know that Apple confirmed they spoke to Bloomberg, but Bloomberg never said Apple agreed with their conclusion or their view of the facts. Apple senior exec talked to Bloomberg reporters and told them their facts were wrong, but Bloomberg ran with the story and attempted to give credibility to the store by staying the spoke to Apple exec , did not say which one's (anonymous sources who were not authorize to speak on behalf of Apple), they did not direct quote any, and did not say if Apple agreed or disagree with their reports.
Apple just call out Bloomberg and unless Bloomberg is willing to say who they talked to and what exactly they said and put in all on the record, we have to believe Apple. Face it the media does not like it went people do not implicitly just believe what they report.
This chip, which is now as small as a sharpened pencil tip, incorporates, processing, memory and networking capability.
When the server is switched on, this chip will alter the operating system's core (any operating system?) so that it will accept remotely transmitted payloads without being detected. The chip can also transmit commands without being detected and can accept instructions from the hacker, also without being detected.
(⊙_☉)
I think Bloomberg really needs to start forking over a bit of solid evidence now.
Bloomberg's chip in question? It is a directional gate, and in no way the purported omni-espionage chip.
I think the 'size of a grain of rice' thing was a nice touch.
Presumably, if the source of the attack was Ireland, the chip would be the size of a potato.
And it goes in the front of the motherboard...
It's been interesting. Bloomberg says "All the boards built by this company have this chip, including ones used by Apple and Amazon!"
Apple and Amazon say "None of our servers have them." and everyone says "Of course, that's just what they [i]would/[i] say."
Homeland Security say "No, really, none of their servers have them." and still no-one believes it.
I'm willing to bet that if Apple and Amazon made images of every motherboard in every server available to demonstrate that the chip isn't there, we'd have conspiracy theorists poring over the images, trying to claim there's a dodgy pixel, here, or that speck of dust is actually the chip, or...
And when the dust settles, and everyone moves onto the new thing, we'll all remember the accusation, but not that it was thoroughly debunked (provided it is, of course). People will still be making jokes about it in the monologues of late night chat shows for years to come, regardless of the outcome.
dewme said: One obvious red herring in Bloomberg's claim is the "grain of rice" thing. Think about how easy it would be to stuff a whole raft of intelligent processing logic inside the form factor of one of the very large components already on a server board, like a bigass electrolytic filter capacitor. Why would anyone go to the trouble of adding a new component that can be detected via visual inspection when an existing component with sufficient volume can be repurposed, even without altering its original purpose? Then there are heatsinks, fans, connectors, transformers, etc. Lots of large components available for spoofing. Have you seen the massive heatsink-fan combinations used on modern CPUs? Why bother with a grain of rice challenge when there are so many other real estate opportunities hidden in plain sight.
None of those larger components have sufficient access to the the motherboard/memory/storage/network etc. It would have to be actually on the circuit board.
While I doubt the story is true, I would not put it past the Chinese to try.
With so many blade servers needed by the big data providers, it would be logical to consider manufacturing them in house. It could actually save money. Of course the US would need to reestablish mining of Thorium and other not-so-rare Earth elements because the only source now is China. But to the question of who would spread such a rumor, one only has to look at the the proponents of the current trade war with China. This whole China issue was brought about by US corporate greed beginning many years ago.
"For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."
Like I mentioned before any component added to a PCB after the fact with the intention of accessing live data streams would need to have very detailed and specific accommodations put in place ahead of time by the PCB manufacturer. I suppose a spying device that works using inductive coupling or by harvesting RFI emissions from the board itself is theoretically feasible but would also require a ton of up front analysis and characterization to know how to discriminate useful signal from the noise that would be present in close proximity to the board. Such a device would also have to be powered either from the board or through energy harvesting. Keep in mind that these are not trivial PCB designs - they are multilayer boards specifically designed to minimize RFI emissions, inductive coupling, ground loops, and signal interference. The placement of a data harvesting and telemetry component would have to be very carefully considered with close cooperation with the board designer and manufacturer. If that is the case then there are virtually no limits to how cleverly the stealth data harvesting circuitry could be disguised. On the software side, injecting data harvesting code into the kernel would require an exploit, which is probably not too high of a bar, but then what does it do? To get the harvested data sent off the board it needs an egress mechanism, which for in-band comms is something that even a novice Wireshark user would be able to sniff out fairly easily. I'd imagine that big companies like Apple have teams of analysts dedicated to monitoring and analyzing all outbound data with a variety of tools.
Bloomberg has a history of trying to discredit Apple, not sure why, but this story alludes to a much wider cast of players. I'd like to see them list all of the names. If any of these companies are involved with critical infrastructure then Bloomberg is going to have a lot more explaining to do in front of companies and government agencies that are not nearly as gentle as Apple has been about Bloomberg nipping at its heals. Playing the Chicken Little game with Apple and Amazon is one thing, playing it with ICS CERT, NIST, Department of Homeland Security, or US Cyber Command is going to earn them a trip to DC and a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer. They are already in over their heads on this one and need to consider their options while they still have options to consider.
Comments
I got this pic.
Are you seriously trying to pass that off as a evidence?
Russia did it in 2016 and is doing it again this year for this election. Plus, private and corporate information can be even more valuable.
Thats just conspirscy theory nonsense.
Chinese govt involved in Chinese companies + Chinese gov’t has hacker employees = Chinese gov’t putting microchip on manufacturer motherboards for servers.
Cool. I can do that too.
Some people think that cowboy hats are gay + Cowboy hats are worn by people = Anyone that wears a cowboy hat is gay.
#logicalfallacy
This chip, which is now as small as a sharpened pencil tip, incorporates, processing, memory and networking capability.
When the server is switched on, this chip will alter the operating system's core (any operating system?) so that it will accept remotely transmitted payloads without being detected. The chip can also transmit commands without being detected and can accept instructions from the hacker, also without being detected.
(⊙_☉)
I think Bloomberg really needs to start forking over a bit of solid evidence now.
While I doubt the story is true, I would not put it past the Chinese to try.
With so many blade servers needed by the big data providers, it would be logical to consider manufacturing them in house. It could actually save money. Of course the US would need to reestablish mining of Thorium and other not-so-rare Earth elements because the only source now is China. But to the question of who would spread such a rumor, one only has to look at the the proponents of the current trade war with China. This whole China issue was brought about by US corporate greed beginning many years ago.
"For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind."
We now know that Apple confirmed they spoke to Bloomberg, but Bloomberg never said Apple agreed with their conclusion or their view of the facts. Apple senior exec talked to Bloomberg reporters and told them their facts were wrong, but Bloomberg ran with the story and attempted to give credibility to the store by staying the spoke to Apple exec , did not say which one's (anonymous sources who were not authorize to speak on behalf of Apple), they did not direct quote any, and did not say if Apple agreed or disagree with their reports.
Apple just call out Bloomberg and unless Bloomberg is willing to say who they talked to and what exactly they said and put in all on the record, we have to believe Apple. Face it the media does not like it went people do not implicitly just believe what they report.
Of course, maybe the Bloomberg writers are just idiots easily led by some tissue paper trail of "could be's" and "might be's".
And it goes in the front of the motherboard...
It's been interesting. Bloomberg says "All the boards built by this company have this chip, including ones used by Apple and Amazon!"
Apple and Amazon say "None of our servers have them." and everyone says "Of course, that's just what they [i]would/[i] say."
Homeland Security say "No, really, none of their servers have them." and still no-one believes it.
I'm willing to bet that if Apple and Amazon made images of every motherboard in every server available to demonstrate that the chip isn't there, we'd have conspiracy theorists poring over the images, trying to claim there's a dodgy pixel, here, or that speck of dust is actually the chip, or...
And when the dust settles, and everyone moves onto the new thing, we'll all remember the accusation, but not that it was thoroughly debunked (provided it is, of course). People will still be making jokes about it in the monologues of late night chat shows for years to come, regardless of the outcome.
Bloomberg has a history of trying to discredit Apple, not sure why, but this story alludes to a much wider cast of players. I'd like to see them list all of the names. If any of these companies are involved with critical infrastructure then Bloomberg is going to have a lot more explaining to do in front of companies and government agencies that are not nearly as gentle as Apple has been about Bloomberg nipping at its heals. Playing the Chicken Little game with Apple and Amazon is one thing, playing it with ICS CERT, NIST, Department of Homeland Security, or US Cyber Command is going to earn them a trip to DC and a lot of uncomfortable questions to answer. They are already in over their heads on this one and need to consider their options while they still have options to consider.