Graphic 7 minute audio of Jamal Khashoggi's murder again linked to journalist's Apple Watc...

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  • Reply 41 of 49
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,899administrator
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    And yet Drumpf is standing by his Saudi buddies. After all, according to him they buy millions & millions of dollars of his properties. 
    The writer was (is?) a Saudi Arabian, not an American. The US doesn’t have dominion over every country on Earth and their citizens. Get over it.
    Nonsense — he’s a US resident, journalist for a US publication, employed by a US company. That puts hs torture and murder by a foreign sovereign right into our wheelhouse. Your “not our problem!” position is entirely based on who you voted for last election. 

    Crazy times when Americans are more loyal to foreign kings in the middle east than their fellow residents, denizens, and neighbors. 

    And these guys whined when Obama bowed. LOL
    It's pretty irrelevant he worked for an American company. The bottom line is Kashoggi is a Saudi citizen. He's only been in the U.S. for a little over a year on a work visa. The U.S. has no jurisdiction over him whatsoever. Now if he was an actual American citizen, the U.S. consulate in Istanbul would have gotten involved immediately as would have the FBI. So if you set aside the back story of his murder, this really has nothing to do with the U.S.

    Having said that, I'm not implying I'm pro Saudi Arabia, just making the point this really is out of our jurisdiction. I'm mixed at what we or other countries should do. One big problem is it would be hard to cut ties with Saudi Arabia since they are a critical ally when it comes to issues in the Middle East. I think we would also be hypocritical if we do something against Saudi Arabia and not other countries. Same type of thing where dissidents of the government are being murdered is happening in Egypt, China, etc yet there is no worldwide outrage over that. 
    This is incorrect. Green card holders are supposed to have the full protection of US laws and law enforcement agencies.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 42 of 49
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,787member
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    And yet Drumpf is standing by his Saudi buddies. After all, according to him they buy millions & millions of dollars of his properties. 
    The writer was (is?) a Saudi Arabian, not an American. The US doesn’t have dominion over every country on Earth and their citizens. Get over it.

    Get over it? Dude. Has your allegiance to Trump totally blinded you to what the United States stands for? The guy was a Naturalized US citizen. A journalist with The Washington Post. His kids are US citizens. Trump is kissing the Crown Princes ring. Have you forgotten that 15 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 were Saudis? Saudi Arabia was Trumps first international trip abroad as President. He is on video bragging about how he loves the Saudis cause they buy so much property from him. Something stinks here. I am curious how you will spin this when video & audio of the torture and killing go public. Will you say fake news? Will you deny reality?
    His nationality is Saudi Arabian:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi

    He's not a US citizen.
    Ugh. Let it go dude. Your xenophobia is showing. He LIVES in the US. It’s his home. He has children who are US citizens. He is a journalist with the Washington Post. What are you trying to say? Because he once came from another country, his cold blooded murder doesn’t matter? Where is your humanity? Your sense of justice? 
    I was quoting Wikipedia, you moron. He is/was a citizen of Saudi Arabia. 
    Is that response within the forum guidelines?  
  • Reply 43 of 49
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    And yet Drumpf is standing by his Saudi buddies. After all, according to him they buy millions & millions of dollars of his properties. 
    The writer was (is?) a Saudi Arabian, not an American. The US doesn’t have dominion over every country on Earth and their citizens. Get over it.
    Nonsense — he’s a US resident, journalist for a US publication, employed by a US company. That puts hs torture and murder by a foreign sovereign right into our wheelhouse. Your “not our problem!” position is entirely based on who you voted for last election. 

    Crazy times when Americans are more loyal to foreign kings in the middle east than their fellow residents, denizens, and neighbors. 

    And these guys whined when Obama bowed. LOL
    It's pretty irrelevant he worked for an American company. The bottom line is Kashoggi is a Saudi citizen. He's only been in the U.S. for a little over a year on a work visa. The U.S. has no jurisdiction over him whatsoever. Now if he was an actual American citizen, the U.S. consulate in Istanbul would have gotten involved immediately as would have the FBI. So if you set aside the back story of his murder, this really has nothing to do with the U.S.

    Having said that, I'm not implying I'm pro Saudi Arabia, just making the point this really is out of our jurisdiction. I'm mixed at what we or other countries should do. One big problem is it would be hard to cut ties with Saudi Arabia since they are a critical ally when it comes to issues in the Middle East. I think we would also be hypocritical if we do something against Saudi Arabia and not other countries. Same type of thing where dissidents of the government are being murdered is happening in Egypt, China, etc yet there is no worldwide outrage over that. 
    This is incorrect. Green card holders are supposed to have the full protection of US laws and law enforcement agencies.
    That’s not entirely accurate:

    https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/rights-and-responsibilities-permanent-resident/rights-and-responsibilities-green-card-holder-permanent-resident

    In that link:

    “As a permanent resident (green card holder), you have the right to:
    • Live permanently in the United States provided you do not commit any actions that would make you removable under immigration law
    • Work in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing. (Please note that some jobs will be limited to U.S. citizens for security reasons)
    • Be protected by all laws of the United States, your state of residence and local jurisdictions”

    Note: US laws do not apply outside the United States!
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 44 of 49
    MacPro said:
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    And yet Drumpf is standing by his Saudi buddies. After all, according to him they buy millions & millions of dollars of his properties. 
    The writer was (is?) a Saudi Arabian, not an American. The US doesn’t have dominion over every country on Earth and their citizens. Get over it.

    Get over it? Dude. Has your allegiance to Trump totally blinded you to what the United States stands for? The guy was a Naturalized US citizen. A journalist with The Washington Post. His kids are US citizens. Trump is kissing the Crown Princes ring. Have you forgotten that 15 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 were Saudis? Saudi Arabia was Trumps first international trip abroad as President. He is on video bragging about how he loves the Saudis cause they buy so much property from him. Something stinks here. I am curious how you will spin this when video & audio of the torture and killing go public. Will you say fake news? Will you deny reality?
    His nationality is Saudi Arabian:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi

    He's not a US citizen.
    Ugh. Let it go dude. Your xenophobia is showing. He LIVES in the US. It’s his home. He has children who are US citizens. He is a journalist with the Washington Post. What are you trying to say? Because he once came from another country, his cold blooded murder doesn’t matter? Where is your humanity? Your sense of justice? 
    I was quoting Wikipedia, you moron. He is/was a citizen of Saudi Arabia. 
    Is that response within the forum guidelines?  
    How about looking at the original defamatory comment before writing something like that?
  • Reply 45 of 49
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,899administrator
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    And yet Drumpf is standing by his Saudi buddies. After all, according to him they buy millions & millions of dollars of his properties. 
    The writer was (is?) a Saudi Arabian, not an American. The US doesn’t have dominion over every country on Earth and their citizens. Get over it.
    Nonsense — he’s a US resident, journalist for a US publication, employed by a US company. That puts hs torture and murder by a foreign sovereign right into our wheelhouse. Your “not our problem!” position is entirely based on who you voted for last election. 

    Crazy times when Americans are more loyal to foreign kings in the middle east than their fellow residents, denizens, and neighbors. 

    And these guys whined when Obama bowed. LOL
    It's pretty irrelevant he worked for an American company. The bottom line is Kashoggi is a Saudi citizen. He's only been in the U.S. for a little over a year on a work visa. The U.S. has no jurisdiction over him whatsoever. Now if he was an actual American citizen, the U.S. consulate in Istanbul would have gotten involved immediately as would have the FBI. So if you set aside the back story of his murder, this really has nothing to do with the U.S.

    Having said that, I'm not implying I'm pro Saudi Arabia, just making the point this really is out of our jurisdiction. I'm mixed at what we or other countries should do. One big problem is it would be hard to cut ties with Saudi Arabia since they are a critical ally when it comes to issues in the Middle East. I think we would also be hypocritical if we do something against Saudi Arabia and not other countries. Same type of thing where dissidents of the government are being murdered is happening in Egypt, China, etc yet there is no worldwide outrage over that. 
    This is incorrect. Green card holders are supposed to have the full protection of US laws and law enforcement agencies.
    That’s not entirely accurate:

    https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/rights-and-responsibilities-permanent-resident/rights-and-responsibilities-green-card-holder-permanent-resident

    In that link:

    “As a permanent resident (green card holder), you have the right to:
    • Live permanently in the United States provided you do not commit any actions that would make you removable under immigration law
    • Work in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing. (Please note that some jobs will be limited to U.S. citizens for security reasons)
    • Be protected by all laws of the United States, your state of residence and local jurisdictions”

    Note: US laws do not apply outside the United States!
    Still accurate, as it pertains to this. The claims that the US shouldn't get involved because he has a green card are unadulterated nonsense.
  • Reply 46 of 49
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    What bothers me the most is that international media all react as if this is news. Last year, backed by all governments, media loved telling how the new Saudi Arabia is modern, cool and open.... My ass!!
    Current and past American governments have been too nice for too long with this dictatorship. It’s time the world completes the energy transition and dumps this retrograde cesspools. Same with Russia and China. 
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 47 of 49
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    dominikhoffmann said:
    I second the interpretation that the Apple Watch explanation is a cover. Of course, that’s now debunked.
    It doesn't really matter too much. The story is out there, and in a week or two it will be mostly forgotten. Any actual fact-checking or debunking will be remembered by a few geeks like us in some forums somewhere, and labeled conspiracy theorists by the media and general public should it interfere with the story.
  • Reply 48 of 49
    From the New York Times: "They severed his fingers during an interrogation and later beheaded and dismembered him, according to details from audio recordings published in the Turkish news media on Wednesday. It was all over within a few minutes, the recordings suggested."

    This whole episode is simply beyond disgusting. Beyond reason.

    A bunch of savages.
    And yet Drumpf is standing by his Saudi buddies. After all, according to him they buy millions & millions of dollars of his properties. 
    The writer was (is?) a Saudi Arabian, not an American. The US doesn’t have dominion over every country on Earth and their citizens. Get over it.
    Nonsense — he’s a US resident, journalist for a US publication, employed by a US company. That puts hs torture and murder by a foreign sovereign right into our wheelhouse. Your “not our problem!” position is entirely based on who you voted for last election. 

    Crazy times when Americans are more loyal to foreign kings in the middle east than their fellow residents, denizens, and neighbors. 

    And these guys whined when Obama bowed. LOL
    It's pretty irrelevant he worked for an American company. The bottom line is Kashoggi is a Saudi citizen. He's only been in the U.S. for a little over a year on a work visa. The U.S. has no jurisdiction over him whatsoever. Now if he was an actual American citizen, the U.S. consulate in Istanbul would have gotten involved immediately as would have the FBI. So if you set aside the back story of his murder, this really has nothing to do with the U.S.

    Having said that, I'm not implying I'm pro Saudi Arabia, just making the point this really is out of our jurisdiction. I'm mixed at what we or other countries should do. One big problem is it would be hard to cut ties with Saudi Arabia since they are a critical ally when it comes to issues in the Middle East. I think we would also be hypocritical if we do something against Saudi Arabia and not other countries. Same type of thing where dissidents of the government are being murdered is happening in Egypt, China, etc yet there is no worldwide outrage over that. 
    This is incorrect. Green card holders are supposed to have the full protection of US laws and law enforcement agencies.
    That’s not entirely accurate:

    https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/after-green-card-granted/rights-and-responsibilities-permanent-resident/rights-and-responsibilities-green-card-holder-permanent-resident

    In that link:

    “As a permanent resident (green card holder), you have the right to:
    • Live permanently in the United States provided you do not commit any actions that would make you removable under immigration law
    • Work in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing. (Please note that some jobs will be limited to U.S. citizens for security reasons)
    • Be protected by all laws of the United States, your state of residence and local jurisdictions”

    Note: US laws do not apply outside the United States!
    Still accurate, as it pertains to this. The claims that the US shouldn't get involved because he has a green card are unadulterated nonsense.
    But why? He’s a citizen of Saudi Arabia, not the US.

    Look at it this way:  While in the US, he enjoys many of the protections and values of the US, but he can’t vote in Federal elections, for example. Outside the US, he’s still a Saudi and Saudi protections OR political or religious vendettas may apply. If this person was killed inside the US instead of in Turkey, US laws against murder would apply. On Saudi soil, their laws apply to one of their own.
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 49 of 49
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    SpamSandwich said:
    But why? He’s a citizen of Saudi Arabia, not the US.

    Look at it this way:  While in the US, he enjoys many of the protections and values of the US, but he can’t vote in Federal elections, for example. Outside the US, he’s still a Saudi and Saudi protections OR political or religious vendettas may apply. If this person was killed inside the US instead of in Turkey, US laws against murder would apply. On Saudi soil, their laws apply to one of their own.
    Yeah, I'm no lawyer, nor do I know the technical details on this kind of thing, but those seem like reasonable questions.

    For example, I'm a USA citizen with permanent residency in Canada (kind of like green card, I guess), and have been living in Canada for about a decade now. If I were, say, taken hostage or killed in Iran or something, I'd like to think that the USA and/or Canada might step in to try and ensure my safety or investigate my death, etc.

    But, it would get more tricky if something happened to me in the USA. Would Canada still get involved? I'm a USA citizen and something happened to me in the USA... one might think Canada would kind of keep their nose out of that unless it were something really outrageous.

    And, IMO, that's the rub here, as this is pretty outrageous. I certainly almost expect the USA to get involved in this, and maybe even countries who have no relation to the guy (i.e.: Canada, Germany, UK, etc.). What happened here, how security was so breached, what the actual truth of the matter is, etc. are of international concern, I'd think.

    I'd love to see the USA (or most of the rest of the world) break off relations with Saudi Arabia, or worse. They've been getting away with so much on the international scale, and don't deserve a seat at the international table (as well as many other countries). But, that is reading in too many of my own political concerns. At least, though, I think the international community should be involved in getting to the truth and preventing something like this from happening in the future.
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