Huawei HiSilicon Kirin 980 more than a year behind Apple's A12 Bionic in performance

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  • Reply 101 of 136
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,071member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
  • Reply 102 of 136
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 103 of 136
    Madtiger said:
    osamapc said:
    you can check the comparison of the speed in YouTube and how the huawei mate 20 pro booted faster and launch the apps and games faster as well , I don't believe this result from Geekbench or GFXBENCH.
    https://youtu.be/vRPxjwgqJKs

    Sorry. 

    Frankly your GPU is trash.  Your cpu is over 2 yrs behind to apple. Sorry. 
    So something doesn't make sense here at all ...

    Didn't you say the A12 is decades ahead of anything else on the planet ; 90% faster and 90% more efficient ?
    Shouldn't that at least mean it does everything faster, and boot faster, and open apps faster (native and 3rd party)? It doesn't seem to be doing that though?

    In your own video, Facebook, Starbucks, Spotify etc are all opening faster on the Kirin 980 and (their own words) the A12 is catching up.

    But going through most videos, there is something really odd with the A12. Check this (real world speed at 1m 47)



    The Kirin 980 actually opens NBC News, Spotify, Netflix, eBay, YouTube, ifunny, Amazon, Temple Run, Super Mario, Asphalt etc etc faster than the iPhone XS Max too. Aside from that, it boots faster and opens the native dialer, settings etc faster as well. 

    I'm battling to see how  the A11 is still ahead of the Kirin 980 faster, if that A12 can't even open everything faster ? 
    Unless - which is very likely - you're looking at numbers on the screen again ? I know you like that !
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 104 of 136
    osamapc said:
    you can check the comparison of the speed in YouTube and how the huawei mate 20 pro booted faster and launch the apps and games faster as well , I don't believe this result from Geekbench or GFXBENCH.
    Also I think you need to be weary of when Madtiger talks about technology.

    Not everyone on here has the same understanding, so you're more than likely going to get a better, clearer and more accurate response from anyone else on here.
  • Reply 105 of 136
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,071member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
  • Reply 106 of 136
    Madtiger said:
    osamapc said:
    you can check the comparison of the speed in YouTube and how the huawei mate 20 pro booted faster and launch the apps and games faster as well , I don't believe this result from Geekbench or GFXBENCH.
    https://youtu.be/vRPxjwgqJKs

    Sorry. 

    Frankly your GPU is trash.  Your cpu is over 2 yrs behind to apple. Sorry. 
    So something doesn't make sense here at all ...

    Didn't you say the A12 is decades ahead of anything else on the planet ; 90% faster and 90% more efficient ?
    Shouldn't that at least mean it does everything faster, and boot faster, and open apps faster (native and 3rd party)? It doesn't seem to be doing that though?

    In your own video, Facebook, Starbucks, Spotify etc are all opening faster on the Kirin 980 and (their own words) the A12 is catching up.

    But going through most videos, there is something really odd with the A12. Check this (real world speed at 1m 47)



    The Kirin 980 actually opens NBC News, Spotify, Netflix, eBay, YouTube, ifunny, Amazon, Temple Run, Super Mario, Asphalt etc etc faster than the iPhone XS Max too. Aside from that, it boots faster and opens the native dialer, settings etc faster as well. 

    I'm battling to see how  the A11 is still ahead of the Kirin 980 faster, if that A12 can't even open everything faster ? 
    Unless - which is very likely - you're looking at numbers on the screen again ? I know you like that !
    Odd that you invest so much time in going to all the Youtubes...just to prove something...when you don't even own an iPhone!  LOL

    Booting up a device means from two different OS is nonsense.  Remember, opening up games varies because it depends on which CPU cores it uses.  Kirin may use their big cores.  Apple may use their smaller cores.  

    Where the difference comes in is in the heavy duty stuff...such as ACTUAL PLAYING the game.  Or editing or uploading a 4k video.  That's when you test the limits of a processor.


    So, you think that Anandtech review of Kirin 980 and A12 to be wrong??????  Anandtech does not know as much as you...just because you watch YouTube videos??!!  LOL

    Let me remind you of what Anandtech said about Kirin 980:

    "Looking at the wider range of historical SPEC2006 scores, we see the Kirin 980 just losing out to Apple’s A10 in terms of performance.  

    No, the Kirin 980 certainly is not able to match Apple’s A12, or even A11 for that matter, and it’s likely this situation won’t change all that much in the next few generations
    , at least until the Android SoC vendors invest in significantly better and more robust memory subsystems.

    Overall, the Kirin 980 definitely is posting substantial improvements over its predecessor, however Arm’s Mali GPU still seems to lag a tad behind the higher end competition from Apple and Qualcomm. "

    I'm battling to see how you can argue against Anandtech.  LOL

    BTW, since you brought up Asphalt, can you do 60 FPS on Asphalt 9 on your Huawei??  
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 107 of 136
    osamapc said:
    you can check the comparison of the speed in YouTube and how the huawei mate 20 pro booted faster and launch the apps and games faster as well , I don't believe this result from Geekbench or GFXBENCH.
    Also I think you need to be weary of when Madtiger talks about technology.

    Not everyone on here has the same understanding, so you're more than likely going to get a better, clearer and more accurate response from anyone else on here.

    Feel free to show me where i have been wrong in what i wrote.  But hey, you watch YouTube!  LOL  Silly kid.
  • Reply 108 of 136
    @Madtiger ;

    I think you need to give it a rest.

    I know you're not technical, but the below is what you need to focus on. Just put both phones down next to each other ... and open an app. It's not rocket science :/ There comes a time in life where you just have to calm down, accept and maybe argue elsewhere?

    "The Kirin 980 actually opens NBC News, Spotify, Netflix, eBay, YouTube, ifunny, Amazon, Temple Run, Super Mario, Asphalt etc etc faster than the iPhone XS Max too"


    edited December 2018
  • Reply 109 of 136
    "Remember, opening up games varies because it depends on which CPU cores it uses.  Kirin may use their big cores.  Apple may use their smaller cores.  "

    So Apple have purposely decided not to open Facebook, Netflix or Spotify fast?

    That's sound legit /s
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 110 of 136
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
    So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?  

    So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?  

    So, you're saying that 2nd hand sales are not popular?   Not attractive proposition?????  Damn, eBay shouldn't exist then because no one is buying those iPhones used!  Or why resellers are buying used iPhones for no damn good reasonl!  

    No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow.  

    Are Huawei flagship of 2015 getting EMUI 9.0?  That's only 3 years ago.  Just wondering.  If not, would you buy it?  iPhone 6s is still being sold as we speak.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 111 of 136
    Debates are kinda funny when you'e involved though ... entertaining at least ;)

    Madtiger : A12 is years ahead of everything ! haha !  Little girl ! Show me a single review ! haha ! 
    Logical Person  : <paste review #1>
    Madtiger : haha! Antutu has the higher number! butthurt! haha ! It's not the fastest!
    Logical Person : <paste review #2> and <paste review #3>
    Madtiger : haha! You don't even have an iPhone! There are a trillion transistors! Little girl! haha ! Butt hurt!
    Logical Person : <paste review #4> and <paste review #5> and <paste video #1> and <paste video #2>
    Madtiger : haha! Antututu disagrees! The numbers are higher! Little girl!
    Logical Person : But there are all real world example's ?
    Madtiger : Little girl! iPhone is the fastest! Check any test you want! Butthurt!
    Logical Person : I've just posted plenty one after each other ? 
    Madtiger : haha! Antutu has the higher number! butthurt! haha ! It's not the fastest!

    It kind of goes in this endless loop where you're unsure how to answer  




    edited December 2018
  • Reply 112 of 136
    Debates are kinda funny when you'e involved though ... entertaining at least ;)

    Madtiger : A12 is years ahead of everything ! haha !  Little girl ! Show me a single review ! haha ! 
    Logical Person  : <paste review #1>
    Madtiger : haha! Antutu has the higher number! butthurt! haha ! It's not the fastest!
    Logical Person : <paste review #2> and <paste review #3>
    Madtiger : haha! You don't even have an iPhone! There are a trillion transistors! Little girl! haha ! Butt hurt!
    Logical Person : <paste review #4> and <paste review #5> and <paste video #1> and <paste video #2>
    Madtiger : haha! Antututu disagrees! The numbers are higher! Little girl!
    Logical Person : But there are all real world example:smile: 
    Madtiger : Little girl! iPhone is the fastest! Check any test you want! Butthurt!




    Smh 

    you up still got nothing. Lol
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 113 of 136
    "Remember, opening up games varies because it depends on which CPU cores it uses.  Kirin may use their big cores.  Apple may use their smaller cores.  "

    So Apple have purposely decided not to open Facebook, Netflix or Spotify fast?

    That's sound legit /s
    Different algorithm/use of the CPU. 

    WHY not compare actual GAMEPLAY?
  • Reply 114 of 136
    @Madtiger ;

    I think you need to give it a rest.

    I know you're not technical, but the below is what you need to focus on. Just put both phones down next to each other ... and open an app. It's not rocket science :/ There comes a time in life where you just have to calm down, accept and maybe argue elsewhere?

    "The Kirin 980 actually opens NBC News, Spotify, Netflix, eBay, YouTube, ifunny, Amazon, Temple Run, Super Mario, Asphalt etc etc faster than the iPhone XS Max too"


    But yet when opening or using heavy apps, Mate 20 fall behind?  weird. 

    Thedude21...I watch YouTube. I know tech!! Lol


    So, you think ANANDTECH is wrong????
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 115 of 136
    Try comment on the videos - maybe you can help me understand : 

    Why is the Kirin 980 booting up and opening a myriad of apps faster than the A12 ? 
    Is there a specific reason, besides Apple throttling, which is what you implied ? 

  • Reply 116 of 136
    Try comment on the videos - maybe you can help me understand : 

    Why is the Kirin 980 booting up and opening a myriad of apps faster than the A12 ? 
    Is there a specific reason, besides Apple throttling, which is what you implied ? 

    I thought I answered this already.  Weird. 

    Again in you think Anandtech is wrong??
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 117 of 136
    No, you haven't - what was the answer ? 

    Why is the Kirin 980 booting up and opening a myriad of apps faster than the A12 ? 

    edited December 2018
  • Reply 118 of 136
    No, you haven't - what was the answer ? 

    Why is the Kirin 980 booting up and opening a myriad of apps faster than the A12 ? 

    Post 106.  

    So, you think Anandtech is wrong?  You're implying that Kirin 980 is faster, right?  You're comparing individual boot up time...yet ignore actual GAMEPLAY!  LOL

    Anandtech is full of crap then, right??  
  • Reply 119 of 136


    Weird...why did Kirin 980 closed apps despite having 8 GB of RAM?????  Did it sh!t in its pants at keeping heavy apps open??  OUCH.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 120 of 136
    Ah - ok, so you are just looking at the higher numbers on a screen and ignoring what happens in the real world
    Don't you think practical is more important though? The real world when use and I use the phone? A user experience in the field?

    That's like kids saying 'oh my daddies car has 200kw and is faster than your daddies car with 195kw' - it's schoolboy stuff



    edited December 2018
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