Huawei HiSilicon Kirin 980 more than a year behind Apple's A12 Bionic in performance

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Comments

  • Reply 121 of 136
    Ah - ok, so you are just looking at the higher numbers on a screen and ignoring what happens in the real world
    Don't you think practical is more important though? The real world when use and I use the phone? A user experience in the field?



    Real world?  60 FPS baby!  That's practical AND fun.

    Again, you think that Anandtech is wrong?  
  • Reply 122 of 136
    Ok, you haven't really answered (unless the benchmark was your answer). A very simple sentence, madtiger ... complete the dots 

    The Kirin 980 boots up faster and loads apps faster because ..................................................................................

    PS It isn't a trick - I'm genuinly interested why the fastest chip that has even been seen, cannot open the likes of Facebook, Netflix, Spotify, YouTube etc faster than the competition? 

    edited December 2018
  • Reply 123 of 136

    As for Asphalt 9: "The game now runs at 60fps on the iPhone XSiPhone XS Max, and iPhone XR. There is no setting to fiddle with; the game will always run at 60fps on these devices. Previously, the 60fps mode was exclusive only to the Windows 10 version of the game. It's currently not available on Android.

    When tested on the iPhone XR, the performance was excellent. The game already looks phenomenal and the 60fps frame rate makes it look even better. It also has gameplay implications, and the smoother frame rate makes the game more responsive, which is important since the game also features competitive online multiplayer. The 60fps frame rate actually gives you a gameplay advantage over players on other devices."


    How's that for REAL-WORLD!  BIG thank you for reminding me about Asphalt!!!  Much appreciated kiddo.



  • Reply 124 of 136
    Ok, you haven't really answered (unless the benchmark was your answer). A very simple sentence, madtiger ... complete the dots 

    The Kirin 980 boots up faster and loads apps faster because ..................................................................................

    PS It isn't a trick - I'm genuinly interested why the fastest chip that has even been seen, cannot open the likes of Facebook, Netflix, Spotify, YouTube etc faster than the competition? 

    Are you OK?  Several times now, you acknowledge my answer...only to come back and ask the same thing...are you mentally stable?  

    So, Anantech is wrong?
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 125 of 136
    Ok :/

    Let's try another way.

    Why does the Kirin 980 open Facebook faster the A12?
  • Reply 126 of 136
    Ok :/

    Let's try another way.

    Why does the Kirin 980 open Facebook faster the A12?
    Smh

    yeah opening FB a few nanosecond faster is far more real world than actual GAMEPLAY, 60 FPS, and/or editing/exporting videos.  

    Heck Kirin 980 can’t even keep apps open in background despite have double RAM!!

    Lol. Have at kiddo. 

    edited December 2018
  • Reply 127 of 136
    You just haven't answered me in 10+ posts  ... You refer to theoretical benchmark numbers, but if I have the phones in my hands I don't see what you are saying. I'm wondering why can the fastest chip in the world - years and years ahead of anything ever seen - can't open Facebook quickly when it's in my hands?

    Anyhoo - seems you don't have an answer either. 
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 128 of 136
    You just haven't answered me in 10+ posts  ... You refer to theoretical benchmark numbers, but if I have the phones in my hands I don't see what you are saying. I'm wondering why can the fastest chip in the world - years and years ahead of anything ever seen - can't open Facebook quickly when it's in my hands?

    Anyhoo - seems you don't have an answer either. 
    Since you don’t like my answer, ask Anandtech. And also tell them that they are wrong too!!!

    lol the things ignorant Android fanboy kids say!

    merry Christmas 
  • Reply 129 of 136
    Is English your first language?

    I'm perplexed at how I've take a question to a few words for you (I've tried hard to dumb it down) and yet you can't answer. For the record, this is Facebook - not gaming or 60FPS or anything. If I open Facebook, it's not as fast on any iPhone out there currentlly.

    Why?
  • Reply 130 of 136
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,933member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
    So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?  

    So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?  

    So, you're saying that 2nd hand sales are not popular?   Not attractive proposition?????  Damn, eBay shouldn't exist then because no one is buying those iPhones used!  Or why resellers are buying used iPhones for no damn good reasonl!  

    No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow.  

    Are Huawei flagship of 2015 getting EMUI 9.0?  That's only 3 years ago.  Just wondering.  If not, would you buy it?  iPhone 6s is still being sold as we speak.
    Re-read what I wrote.

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?" 

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?"

    Are you trying to put words into my mouth?

    Read what I said for what it is. Is it wrong?  

    "No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow."

    No. You are wrong. Let me spell it out for you:

    Apple only releases two (now three phones a YEAR). Beyond those two or three phones your only options are old phones. So you have just one vendor on an ultra slow upgrade cycle. Not good for choice. This also leads to the situations we are seeing of late. Just two examples:

    1. Full screen phones. 2018 was the year of full screen phones. Chins and foreheads were definitely OUT and won't be coming back any time soon. For almost the entire year Apple had just one full screen phone and its least attractive (on price) option at that. Even worse, the other two 2018 iPhones had those dated foreheads and chins. Not nice to have a very dated looking NEW phone going into 2019. That is a direct result of Apple's sloth like release cycle.

    2. Tri Camera. Apple will not have a tri camera option until very late 2019. The full screen situation is repeating itself due to the slow release cycle. That will put it a full year and a half behind Huawei and a year behind the rest of the industry.

    Android handset makers will have produced a string of flagships by the time Apple releases its (two or three) 2019 phones. Each model topping the previous one and as the new models are released the older ones get discounted. That is why there is not much demand for second hand Android handsets.

    Huawei will give you a minimum of 24 months support and guarantees that the phones will stay fast. They have the 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' claim for that reason.

    That said, most Android users are on two year upgrade cycles anyway. Non-issue especially as most key apps see constant updates for years.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 131 of 136
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
    So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?  

    So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?  

    So, you're saying that 2nd hand sales are not popular?   Not attractive proposition?????  Damn, eBay shouldn't exist then because no one is buying those iPhones used!  Or why resellers are buying used iPhones for no damn good reasonl!  

    No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow.  

    Are Huawei flagship of 2015 getting EMUI 9.0?  That's only 3 years ago.  Just wondering.  If not, would you buy it?  iPhone 6s is still being sold as we speak.
    Re-read what I wrote.

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?" 

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?"

    Are you trying to put words into my mouth?

    Read what I said for what it is. Is it wrong?  

    "No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow."

    No. You are wrong. Let me spell it out for you:

    Apple only releases two (now three phones a YEAR). Beyond those two or three phones your only options are old phones. So you have just one vendor on an ultra slow upgrade cycle. Not good for choice. This also leads to the situations we are seeing of late. Just two examples:

    1. Full screen phones. 2018 was the year of full screen phones. Chins and foreheads were definitely OUT and won't be coming back any time soon. For almost the entire year Apple had just one full screen phone and its least attractive (on price) option at that. Even worse, the other two 2018 iPhones had those dated foreheads and chins. Not nice to have a very dated looking NEW phone going into 2019. That is a direct result of Apple's sloth like release cycle.

    2. Tri Camera. Apple will not have a tri camera option until very late 2019. The full screen situation is repeating itself due to the slow release cycle. That will put it a full year and a half behind Huawei and a year behind the rest of the industry.

    Android handset makers will have produced a string of flagships by the time Apple releases its (two or three) 2019 phones. Each model topping the previous one and as the new models are released the older ones get discounted. That is why there is not much demand for second hand Android handsets.

    Huawei will give you a minimum of 24 months support and guarantees that the phones will stay fast. They have the 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' claim for that reason.

    That said, most Android users are on two year upgrade cycles anyway. Non-issue especially as most key apps see constant updates for years.
    So...your whole argument is about iPhone annual update?  So what Android OEMs are doing is better strategy?

    and software updates beyond 18-24 months is useless to consumers?

    yeah ok. Merry Christmas. 
  • Reply 132 of 136
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,933member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
    So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?  

    So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?  

    So, you're saying that 2nd hand sales are not popular?   Not attractive proposition?????  Damn, eBay shouldn't exist then because no one is buying those iPhones used!  Or why resellers are buying used iPhones for no damn good reasonl!  

    No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow.  

    Are Huawei flagship of 2015 getting EMUI 9.0?  That's only 3 years ago.  Just wondering.  If not, would you buy it?  iPhone 6s is still being sold as we speak.
    Re-read what I wrote.

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?" 

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?"

    Are you trying to put words into my mouth?

    Read what I said for what it is. Is it wrong?  

    "No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow."

    No. You are wrong. Let me spell it out for you:

    Apple only releases two (now three phones a YEAR). Beyond those two or three phones your only options are old phones. So you have just one vendor on an ultra slow upgrade cycle. Not good for choice. This also leads to the situations we are seeing of late. Just two examples:

    1. Full screen phones. 2018 was the year of full screen phones. Chins and foreheads were definitely OUT and won't be coming back any time soon. For almost the entire year Apple had just one full screen phone and its least attractive (on price) option at that. Even worse, the other two 2018 iPhones had those dated foreheads and chins. Not nice to have a very dated looking NEW phone going into 2019. That is a direct result of Apple's sloth like release cycle.

    2. Tri Camera. Apple will not have a tri camera option until very late 2019. The full screen situation is repeating itself due to the slow release cycle. That will put it a full year and a half behind Huawei and a year behind the rest of the industry.

    Android handset makers will have produced a string of flagships by the time Apple releases its (two or three) 2019 phones. Each model topping the previous one and as the new models are released the older ones get discounted. That is why there is not much demand for second hand Android handsets.

    Huawei will give you a minimum of 24 months support and guarantees that the phones will stay fast. They have the 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' claim for that reason.

    That said, most Android users are on two year upgrade cycles anyway. Non-issue especially as most key apps see constant updates for years.
    So...your whole argument is about iPhone annual update?  So what Android OEMs are doing is better strategy?

    and software updates beyond 18-24 months is useless to consumers?

    yeah ok. Merry Christmas. 
    There are many possible arguments depending on your point of view. Price could be just one of them if you are price sensitive or don't think you are getting your money's worth. Design is another.  iPhone 8 users have new phones that already look dated and will look decidedly even more dated in 2019. You are implying some iPhones are used for long periods. If I were design concious I would have reservations about buying an 8 series phone.

    You have thrown a lot of claims onto the field and they have been countered but you are now saying my whole argument boils down to one point. It doesn't, but much of what you are claiming is very flawed. Like Huawei was basically shipping large numbers of low end phones and not higher end units:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/huawei-exceeds-200-million-smartphone-shipments-setting-company-record/


    edited December 2018
  • Reply 133 of 136
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
    So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?  

    So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?  

    So, you're saying that 2nd hand sales are not popular?   Not attractive proposition?????  Damn, eBay shouldn't exist then because no one is buying those iPhones used!  Or why resellers are buying used iPhones for no damn good reasonl!  

    No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow.  

    Are Huawei flagship of 2015 getting EMUI 9.0?  That's only 3 years ago.  Just wondering.  If not, would you buy it?  iPhone 6s is still being sold as we speak.
    Re-read what I wrote.

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?" 

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?"

    Are you trying to put words into my mouth?

    Read what I said for what it is. Is it wrong?  

    "No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow."

    No. You are wrong. Let me spell it out for you:

    Apple only releases two (now three phones a YEAR). Beyond those two or three phones your only options are old phones. So you have just one vendor on an ultra slow upgrade cycle. Not good for choice. This also leads to the situations we are seeing of late. Just two examples:

    1. Full screen phones. 2018 was the year of full screen phones. Chins and foreheads were definitely OUT and won't be coming back any time soon. For almost the entire year Apple had just one full screen phone and its least attractive (on price) option at that. Even worse, the other two 2018 iPhones had those dated foreheads and chins. Not nice to have a very dated looking NEW phone going into 2019. That is a direct result of Apple's sloth like release cycle.

    2. Tri Camera. Apple will not have a tri camera option until very late 2019. The full screen situation is repeating itself due to the slow release cycle. That will put it a full year and a half behind Huawei and a year behind the rest of the industry.

    Android handset makers will have produced a string of flagships by the time Apple releases its (two or three) 2019 phones. Each model topping the previous one and as the new models are released the older ones get discounted. That is why there is not much demand for second hand Android handsets.

    Huawei will give you a minimum of 24 months support and guarantees that the phones will stay fast. They have the 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' claim for that reason.

    That said, most Android users are on two year upgrade cycles anyway. Non-issue especially as most key apps see constant updates for years.
    So...your whole argument is about iPhone annual update?  So what Android OEMs are doing is better strategy?

    and software updates beyond 18-24 months is useless to consumers?

    yeah ok. Merry Christmas. 
    There are many possible arguments depending on your point of view. Price could be just one of them if you are price sensitive or don't think you are getting your money's worth. Design is another.  iPhone 8 users have new phones that already look dated and will look decidedly even more dated in 2019. You are implying some iPhones are used for long periods. If I were design concious I would have reservations about buying an 8 series phone.

    You have thrown a lot of claims onto the field and they have been countered but you are now saying my whole argument boils down to one point. It doesn't, but much of what you are claiming is very flawed. Like Huawei was basically shipping large numbers of low end phones and not higher end units:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/huawei-exceeds-200-million-smartphone-shipments-setting-company-record/


    Is everyone design concious?  If that was the case, then why do Android buyers buy such ugly phones?  Ya know, the ones with no forehead but large chin?  the ones with notch for no darn good reason other than to look like iPhone?  the ones with those silly "slider" to hide the front camera but yet has a chin?  (Those sliders are the dumbest idea...ever.)  Or the ones with Infinity display that really serves no purpose except for edge distortion when watching video, poor palm rejection, and impossible to put screen protector on?

    If design is on everyone's mind, then Android would fail miserably.

    In fact, isn't the "thing" now in the media is that everyone keeping their expensive phone longer and longer?  But yet, you state that 18-24 months is all you need.

    You're saying that buying a Huawei flagship (which is pretty damn expensive, rivaling that of other flagships!)...owners are expected/required to update every 18-24 months?  So, every 2 years (or less, based on your post above saying how far ahead in advancement Android OEMs are), owners are expected to shell out $900-1000+?  They can't buy used because there is no market for them and those old phones are insecure bricks (no updates). 

    So, unlike iPhone owners that can keep their devices 5+ years, Huawei et al. must buy new ones at $900-1000+ every 18-24 months?  But THAT according to you is much better for consumers, right?  Silly.




    edited December 2018
  • Reply 134 of 136
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,933member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Rabbitkun said:
    High benchmarks are nice but I believe most consumers are more concerned with what the total package brings them.
    That is why people buy iphones more than android phones (if they have the money and actually can choose)...
    Nah, people buy iPhones because it's an Apple, but more and more people nowadays want more flexibility with what they use and given the price the competitors like Samsung or Huawei (which are #1 & #2 in the current market) offers something more of value than what Apple is offering now.
    Those folks (samsung and Huawei) sell more phones OVERALL, but their flagships are far behind in sales to Apple flagships.  Huawei and Samsung sell both cheap, mid-range, and high end phones.  Most of their sales are in the lower end...in poorer countries.  I think ASP of Samsung is around $225-250.  Huawei is around that or slightly lower than Samsung.  

    And this was why iPhone X was the #1 selling phone in 2017-2018...despite Apple being #3 seller of phones worldwide.

    So, Huawei and Samsung being #1-2 has nothing to do with people wanting “flexibility”...it has more to do with poorer folks in poor countries needing a basic smartphone.  For those who has the means and want “flexibility,” iPhone remains the #1 seller by far.  This is fact.
    This isn't exactly true. Android flagship phones are shipping in ever greater numbers thanks to the likes of Huawei, whose sales largely come from the middle to high end and has little to do with 'poor countries' or 'poorer folks'. Just take a look at  Huawei (and lately Oppo and Xiaomi) in Europe, they also sell low end phones of course but the focus of Huawei is NOT the low end. Apple, on the other hand has largely been flat for three years now.

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-leaving-the-low-end-market-focus-is-on-premium-smartphones_id96464

    As for 'most popular' models, that is hogwash as there is no comparison possible. If Huawei or Samsung released two or three models each year, in all likelihood they would have the 'most popular' model but it would still be hogwash. It is irrelevant in most cases.


    https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/03/reuters-america-update-2-huawei-sees-smartphone-shipments-topping-200-mln-eyes-world-no-1-rank.html

    Look at ASP. 
    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    And shipments do?!  Most, if not all, consumers don't gives a rats ass to shipment especially when most of those are low end crap!  So if you’re gonna talk shipments then ASP must be in the discussion.

    But we can talk about what matters most to end users. Does resale value matter to consumers?  Apple beats all...by a wide margin over the Chinese. Does 5+ years of full software support matter?  Does 60 FPS gaming matter to consumers?  Does app selection and developer preference matter?  
    ASP is of interest to investors only.

    Huawei is shipping more phones, in higher price bands, increasing revenues and making billions in the process. It is investing more in R&D than Apple. All with a lower ASP.

    Huawei is privately owned so ASP doesn't even mean much when it comes to investors.

    More and more Android handsets are occupying the premium and ultra premium bands while Apple remains flat. If you are verically integrated unit sales are essential.

    Resale value is worthless when you can pick up a new phone for the same price. Using an older handset and second hand, is not an attractive proposition.
    So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?  

    So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?  

    So, you're saying that 2nd hand sales are not popular?   Not attractive proposition?????  Damn, eBay shouldn't exist then because no one is buying those iPhones used!  Or why resellers are buying used iPhones for no damn good reasonl!  

    No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow.  

    Are Huawei flagship of 2015 getting EMUI 9.0?  That's only 3 years ago.  Just wondering.  If not, would you buy it?  iPhone 6s is still being sold as we speak.
    Re-read what I wrote.

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that Huawei Mate 20 is outselling iPhone XS?" 

    Why are you suggesting this?:

    "So, you're saying that LG V-whatever, HTC U12, Samsung Note 9, or Pixel 3 are selling like hotcakes?"

    Are you trying to put words into my mouth?

    Read what I said for what it is. Is it wrong?  

    "No, the reason why resale suck so badly on Android is that most of them aren't getting supported past 18 months...and they get software updates so damn slow."

    No. You are wrong. Let me spell it out for you:

    Apple only releases two (now three phones a YEAR). Beyond those two or three phones your only options are old phones. So you have just one vendor on an ultra slow upgrade cycle. Not good for choice. This also leads to the situations we are seeing of late. Just two examples:

    1. Full screen phones. 2018 was the year of full screen phones. Chins and foreheads were definitely OUT and won't be coming back any time soon. For almost the entire year Apple had just one full screen phone and its least attractive (on price) option at that. Even worse, the other two 2018 iPhones had those dated foreheads and chins. Not nice to have a very dated looking NEW phone going into 2019. That is a direct result of Apple's sloth like release cycle.

    2. Tri Camera. Apple will not have a tri camera option until very late 2019. The full screen situation is repeating itself due to the slow release cycle. That will put it a full year and a half behind Huawei and a year behind the rest of the industry.

    Android handset makers will have produced a string of flagships by the time Apple releases its (two or three) 2019 phones. Each model topping the previous one and as the new models are released the older ones get discounted. That is why there is not much demand for second hand Android handsets.

    Huawei will give you a minimum of 24 months support and guarantees that the phones will stay fast. They have the 'Born Fast, Stays Fast' claim for that reason.

    That said, most Android users are on two year upgrade cycles anyway. Non-issue especially as most key apps see constant updates for years.
    So...your whole argument is about iPhone annual update?  So what Android OEMs are doing is better strategy?

    and software updates beyond 18-24 months is useless to consumers?

    yeah ok. Merry Christmas. 
    There are many possible arguments depending on your point of view. Price could be just one of them if you are price sensitive or don't think you are getting your money's worth. Design is another.  iPhone 8 users have new phones that already look dated and will look decidedly even more dated in 2019. You are implying some iPhones are used for long periods. If I were design concious I would have reservations about buying an 8 series phone.

    You have thrown a lot of claims onto the field and they have been countered but you are now saying my whole argument boils down to one point. It doesn't, but much of what you are claiming is very flawed. Like Huawei was basically shipping large numbers of low end phones and not higher end units:

    https://www.cnet.com/news/huawei-exceeds-200-million-smartphone-shipments-setting-company-record/


    Is everyone design concious?  If that was the case, then why do Android buyers buy such ugly phones?  Ya know, the ones with no forehead but large chin?  the ones with notch for no darn good reason other than to look like iPhone?  the ones with those silly "slider" to hide the front camera but yet has a chin?  (Those sliders are the dumbest idea...ever.)  Or the ones with Infinity display that really serves no purpose except for edge distortion when watching video, poor palm rejection, and impossible to put screen protector on?

    If design is on everyone's mind, then Android would fail miserably.

    In fact, isn't the "thing" now in the media is that everyone keeping their expensive phone longer and longer?  But yet, you state that 18-24 months is all you need.

    You're saying that buying a Huawei flagship (which is pretty damn expensive, rivaling that of other flagships!)...owners are expected/required to update every 18-24 months?  So, every 2 years (or less, based on your post above saying how far ahead in advancement Android OEMs are), owners are expected to shell out $900-1000+?  They can't buy used because there is no market for them and those old phones are insecure bricks (no updates). 

    So, unlike iPhone owners that can keep their devices 5+ years, Huawei et al. must buy new ones at $900-1000+ every 18-24 months?  But THAT according to you is much better for consumers, right?  Silly.




    You are doing it again. Where did you get 'everyone' from. I didn't say everyone. I said if you are price or design sensitive. People have different priorities. It doesn't mean everyone.

    Of course, if you are design sensitive, you would have spent almost all this year with just one full screen option (the year that full screen phones became the norm): iPhone X, which was also the most expensive option, so if you are also price sensitive you found yourself in a squeeze.

    Android handsets had full screen options from various vendors at a range of prices.

    The notch is not an Apple thing nor is it a design hit. It is a simple compromise. The teardrop notch (a la Essential and Sharp) has become very frequent in the last months of 2018 and 'hole cutouts' have now appeared. Rumours say the 3D sensing  may move to the rear of the phone next year. We will see but whatever happens Apple will have nothing new until the end of 2019.

    The bezels on the XR are huge by today's standards. I don't know why you are picking out minimal chins when the rest of the phones have thin bezels. The Mate 20 Pro even has a smaller notch than the XS. Sliding phones may be silly for you but that doesn't mean they will be silly for others. They are elegant IMO but still a compromise. The point is that you have plenty of choice and plenty of price points.

    80% of the market is Android but you rarely see the security issues that are so often mentioned. Another non-issue?

    Advantages? Even without major systems updates most apps are continuously updated. The user decides which ones to update. 

    Very few iPhone users keep their phones for 5+ years but no one (Android or Apple) is forced to buy a new phone every 24 months.
  • Reply 135 of 136
    @Madtiger ;

    Are you going to tell me why the iPhone XS Max can't open Facebook, Netflix or Spotify quicker than a Huawei Mate 20 Pro?
    And of interest, have you ever seen what the Huawei Mate 20 Pro does to an iPhone X (A11) when opening, well, anything really?

    It opens everything (ie 100%) faster than the iPhone X!


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