Apple unveils all new 13-inch MacBook Air with Retina display, Thunderbolt 3 and more

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  • Reply 161 of 177
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
  • Reply 162 of 177
    IMHO, the late 2018 MacBook Air is an improvement over both the previous generation MacBook Air and the current generation MacBook spec-wise. However, the price is ridiculous. This is not a professional-level laptop; for one, the CPU only has two cores. The specs that I would consider for myself are 512 GB of storage and 16 GB of RAM. The late 2018 MacBook Air costs $1800 in this configuration. I can get a mid-2015 15" MacBook Pro with quad core i7 CPU, 1TB of SSD and 15 GB of RAM for that price. So, three and a half years later, the 15" mid-2015 MacBook Pro is still the best option if you are interested in getting the best portable Mac under $2000.
    80s_Apple_Guyireland
  • Reply 163 of 177
    SupersillyusSupersillyus Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    How can they call this thing 'Air'? It's enormous - the woman on stage is dwarfed by the thing. Completely impractical (although nice screen size for iMax style home cinema.) 👍
    ascii
  • Reply 164 of 177
    My issue isn't the base price it's what the real life cost is. I have a 2012 MacBook Pro core i7 with a 1TB SSD. To replace that with a MacBook Air would cost be almost $3000 with tax. That's way way over the top. Yes buying a low end machine with miniscule storage is great but to buy a MacBook as your main computer costs way too much. Been using Apple since the IIc but now they're priced way out of range as my main computer. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 165 of 177
    [...] buying a low end machine with miniscule storage is great but to buy a MacBook as your main computer costs way too much.
    I looked at Craigslist for used Airs last night. Almost all were base configurations. Out of almost three hundred postings, I could count the number with upgraded storage on my fingers.

    I'm trying to figure out how to interpret that. Does it mean ordinary users (as opposed to the kind of user that frequents Appleinsider) are satisfied with such paltry storage allotments, or does it suggest people just tend to buy the least expensive configuration without realizing how it will affect the longer-term ownership experience?

    Is the large number of machines for sale an indication that owners have decided the base config was a mistake and are now upgrading, or is it just that there are tons of them out there?
    elijahg
  • Reply 166 of 177
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 383member
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    edited October 31 rogifan_new
  • Reply 167 of 177
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I'm gonna bet money on there not being an ARM Mac for the simple reason that I see Apple beginning to position the iPad Pro as their answer to an ARM Laptop.  Not an ARM Mac but an ARM Laptop.  Over time, don't be surprised to see the Mac being relegated to the high-end (MBP, iMac Pro, Mac Pro, Mac mini) while the iPad Pro cannibalizes the entry-level to mid-range of their computer line-up.
  • Reply 168 of 177
    sirozha said:
    IMHO, the late 2018 MacBook Air is an improvement over both the previous generation MacBook Air and the current generation MacBook spec-wise. However, the price is ridiculous. This is not a professional-level laptop; for one, the CPU only has two cores. The specs that I would consider for myself are 512 GB of storage and 16 GB of RAM. The late 2018 MacBook Air costs $1800 in this configuration. I can get a mid-2015 15" MacBook Pro with quad core i7 CPU, 1TB of SSD and 15 GB of RAM for that price. So, three and a half years later, the 15" mid-2015 MacBook Pro is still the best option if you are interested in getting the best portable Mac under $2000.
    Nobody ever said the Retina MBA is an professional-level laptop.  It's positioned as Apple's entry into the macOS ecosystem.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 169 of 177
    sirozha said:
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    Apple's senior leadership has said on multiple occasions that they have no intent on merging iOS & macOS or believe in hybrid devices simply because to them those devices are jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none.  Not saying they're right or wrong.  That's just what they've said.
    edited October 31 watto_cobra
  • Reply 170 of 177
    But this new, more expensive MacBook Air still defaults to only 128 GB SSD main storage.  
    It is the same amount of SSD storage Apple has been using in the MacBook Air for the last 6 (Six!) years.  Since the MacBook Air 13-inch Mid-2012 model.
    Sad that Apple continues in its rather arrogant hardware low-balling, when the non-Apple competition is putting out 256 GB SSD models , as the Dell XPS 13-inch.
    Every once in a while I think that maybe I should get a MacBook Air for those times I wish I had a mobile Mac (to supplement my main Mac, a rather old iMac 2010).
    But there is not enough here to make me jump at this new model. Low 128 GB storage -- 256 GB SSD costs a full $200 more. Base 8 GB RAM -- an additional 8 GB to make 16 GB costs another $200. And the continuing removal of ports and plug choices -- just two of the Thunderbolt USB C, one of which will sometimes be taken up in order to charge the MacBook Air. Which means that one has to both buy and carry a less then elegant dongle to plug in USB A flash drives, or allow simultaneous power and multi device connection. No more Mag-Safe power connector (a great feature I thought).
    I really don't understand why Apple continues to push reduction of capability in its machines.
    It seems like they must be discussing in the back room design meetings 'What can we remove from the next Mac, and maybe even convince people to pay more for!'
    I've been using Macs for three decades, but sadly there is no more well and fully featured Mac "computer for the rest of us."
  • Reply 171 of 177
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 383member
    sirozha said:
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    Apple's senior leadership has said on multiple occasions that they have no intent on merging iOS & macOS or believe in hybrid devices simply because to them those devices are jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none.  Not saying they're right or wrong.  That's just what they've said.
    Steve Jobs said, “If you there’s a stylus, you blew it.”  8 years later, Apple came out with an Apple Pencil. 
  • Reply 172 of 177
    lkrupp said:
    The presenter seems to be uncomfortable on stage. She sounds canned like she is reading from a teleprompter. I don't see the unbridled enthusiasm that Jobs projected. But to be honest, there was only one Steve Jobs and he’s gone now. 
    Stop. She's nervous, not bored. Public speaking is a skill, and skills have to practiced (I'd wager you'd suck at it in her shoes). Apple speakers are always their real team members. Craig was nervous and forced when he began as well, but is now one of their better public speakers.
    When a person is nervous, there can be no "please stop cut her/him some slack". A person is either comfortable and that helps sell the product. Or, you have to get another person who can do that. What is the point of even presenting it like that, then? This is supposed to be a high skill level presentation, not some highshool project level presentation. 
    Do you remember when Craig Federighi gave his first presentation? He was such a nervous wreck that his nickname was Shaky Hands because his hands shook so much when he was moving the mouse during a demo.  Now, he's one of Apple's best presenters.  People should be given a chance & they can improve as time goes by.  Not everybody is or ever will be a Steve Jobs caliber presenter.
    I get it, but the preparations/getting used to should have been done prior to the big event. I agree that presenters of Jobs caliber are very infrequent and there is nothing that can replicate a big event without a big event itself, but it does not mean a poorly prepared person should be presenting. If I dont feel comfortable, I dont go and present in front of a crowd. 
  • Reply 173 of 177
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,878member
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    Apple's senior leadership has said on multiple occasions that they have no intent on merging iOS & macOS or believe in hybrid devices simply because to them those devices are jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none.  Not saying they're right or wrong.  That's just what they've said.
    Steve Jobs said, “If you there’s a stylus, you blew it.”  8 years later, Apple came out with an Apple Pencil. 
    Not only did you mangle the quote, you also misunderstood it. He was referring to the primary input method for a tablet. The primary input method on the iPad is not a stylus, it's touch. The Pencil is an additional method of input.
  • Reply 174 of 177
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    Apple's senior leadership has said on multiple occasions that they have no intent on merging iOS & macOS or believe in hybrid devices simply because to them those devices are jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none.  Not saying they're right or wrong.  That's just what they've said.
    Steve Jobs said, “If you there’s a stylus, you blew it.”  8 years later, Apple came out with an Apple Pencil. 
    Not only did you mangle the quote, you also misunderstood it. He was referring to the primary input method for a tablet. The primary input method on the iPad is not a stylus, it's touch. The Pencil is an additional method of input.
    sirozha did not misunderstand. Jobs was not okay with a stylus as an "alternative" input method. He was opposed to it existing at all. I remember thinking at the time that I couldn't understand why. Isaacson's book has several quotes from Jobs about the subject that make it very clear what he meant. He did not want Apple to allow the use of a stylus at all.
    edited November 2
  • Reply 175 of 177
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,878member
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    Apple's senior leadership has said on multiple occasions that they have no intent on merging iOS & macOS or believe in hybrid devices simply because to them those devices are jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none.  Not saying they're right or wrong.  That's just what they've said.
    Steve Jobs said, “If you there’s a stylus, you blew it.”  8 years later, Apple came out with an Apple Pencil. 
    Not only did you mangle the quote, you also misunderstood it. He was referring to the primary input method for a tablet. The primary input method on the iPad is not a stylus, it's touch. The Pencil is an additional method of input.
    sirozha did not misunderstand. Jobs was not okay with a stylus as an "alternative" input method. He was opposed to it existing at all. I remember thinking at the time that I couldn't understand why. Isaacson's book has several quotes from Jobs about the subject that make it very clear what he meant. He did not want Apple to allow the use of a stylus at all.
    Oh? I read the book, but don't remember that part. I've always through it was meant with regard to how you interact with the UI, not like use a drawing app or whatever. 
  • Reply 176 of 177
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    dunks said:
    $1199 Ouch. So what’s the point of the retina MacBook now? No mention of it on stage yet so I assume it’s just getting a spec bump unless Apple is killing it?
    The retina MacBook (US$1299) is only more expensive because pricing starts with a 256GB SSD, whereas the MacBook Air (US$1199) pricing starts with a 128GB SSD.

    Apple could have easily offered a 128GB retina MacBook at the (US$1199). I think Apple intentionally withheld a 128GB MacBook so the 13.3 inch retina Air could launch at the lowest price point, fulfilling the 'Air' promise.

    In reality the 13.3 inch retina Air is being strategically massaged into a non-entry-level price bracket.

    The legacy Air ($999) received no update marking it as end-of-life. When that goes what is being called the new Air will functionally be a 13 inch retina MacBook. The 12 inch MacBook model has a smaller display, slower processor, fewer ports, and no Touch ID. A price drop is the only thing holding it back from being the entry-level laptop.



    I see the MacBook being Apple’s first ARM laptop. Disappointing though that the current MacBook didn’t get a price cut. If you look at the top graphic on the Mac section of Apple’s website they list the MacBook first, then the Air, then the Pro. Based on that graphic you’d think the MacBook would be the cheapest option.
    I agree with your expectation that the MacBook will go ARM next year. The MacBook Air will remain the low-end choice in the Intel camp for now. How will Apple position Intel-based laptops vs ARM-based laptops and differentiate the two lines? I think the only way to make such a differentiation is to combine the iPad Pro and the MacBook into one ARM-based hybrid device. I can tell you that this device would be amazing for education and would destroy Windows and Chrome computers in education. There is still a place for true Intel-Based macOS computers (both desktops and laptops), but there's now enough room on the market for an Apple hybrid device whose interface can adapt to both touch (when used in the tablet mode) and to pointing device (mouse/trackpad) when used in the external keyboard mode. 

    IMHO, today's lower-spec and smaller-screen iPad Pro will be branded just the iPad. Today's higher-spec and larger-screen iPad Pro will be combined with the MacBook into an ARM-based hybrid device. Today's (vintage 2018)  MacBook Air will continue to live as a lower-end Intel-based MacBook for some time now. The MacBook Pro line will jettison the dual-core option, as it is almost identical to the MacBook Air.

    The MacBook Pro line will consist of quad-core, six-core, and even higher-core options that will start at $1,999 (for the lowest-spec 13" configuration) and will go up, whereas the MacBook Air will be capped at $1,899 in its highest-spec configuration (dual-core, 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD). 

    The new hybrid MacBook/iPad Pro device will start at $999 (for a 64MB or 128MB non-LTE) version and will go up from there. The highest-spec configuration of this ARM-based hybrid device with 1TB of storage and with LTE will be capped at $1,999 as long as Apple continues to maintain Intel-based laptops. 

    The iPad (iOS-only version) with LTE will be capped at $999, whereas the non-LTE lower-spec version will start at $499. 
    Apple's senior leadership has said on multiple occasions that they have no intent on merging iOS & macOS or believe in hybrid devices simply because to them those devices are jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none.  Not saying they're right or wrong.  That's just what they've said.
    Steve Jobs said, “If you there’s a stylus, you blew it.”  8 years later, Apple came out with an Apple Pencil. 
    Not only did you mangle the quote, you also misunderstood it. He was referring to the primary input method for a tablet. The primary input method on the iPad is not a stylus, it's touch. The Pencil is an additional method of input.
    sirozha did not misunderstand. Jobs was not okay with a stylus as an "alternative" input method. He was opposed to it existing at all. I remember thinking at the time that I couldn't understand why. Isaacson's book has several quotes from Jobs about the subject that make it very clear what he meant. He did not want Apple to allow the use of a stylus at all.
    Oh? I read the book, but don't remember that part. I've always through it was meant with regard to how you interact with the UI, not like use a drawing app or whatever. 
    If you have the iBooks version, search for "stylus." That's what I did to make sure I wasn't misremembering. Jobs' opinions start with discussion of the Newton and continue through development of the iPad. He was really clear that he didn't want anything but fingers touching that screen.
  • Reply 177 of 177
    GynophiloGynophilo Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    But this new, more expensive MacBook Air still defaults to only 128 GB SSD main storage.  
    It is the same amount of SSD storage Apple has been using in the MacBook Air for the last 6 (Six!) years.  Since the MacBook Air 13-inch Mid-2012 model.
    Sad that Apple continues in its rather arrogant hardware low-balling, when the non-Apple competition is putting out 256 GB SSD models , as the Dell XPS 13-inch.
    Every once in a while I think that maybe I should get a MacBook Air for those times I wish I had a mobile Mac (to supplement my main Mac, a rather old iMac 2010).
    But there is not enough here to make me jump at this new model. Low 128 GB storage -- 256 GB SSD costs a full $200 more. Base 8 GB RAM -- an additional 8 GB to make 16 GB costs another $200. And the continuing removal of ports and plug choices -- just two of the Thunderbolt USB C, one of which will sometimes be taken up in order to charge the MacBook Air. Which means that one has to both buy and carry a less then elegant dongle to plug in USB A flash drives, or allow simultaneous power and multi device connection. No more Mag-Safe power connector (a great feature I thought).
    I really don't understand why Apple continues to push reduction of capability in its machines.
    It seems like they must be discussing in the back room design meetings 'What can we remove from the next Mac, and maybe even convince people to pay more for!'
    I've been using Macs for three decades, but sadly there is no more well and fully featured Mac "computer for the rest of us."
    An 128GB SSD is just plain non-sense in 2018 since Mojave already requires at least 20GB for the initial system and will afterwards increase its size to 40-50GB in case of an average user. So almost half the storage is already gone from the start. Unless you use your computer only for doing FaceTime, you will soon reach capacity. Verdict: Apple's new MacBook Air base model is a joke.
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