Apple's new 11- & 12.9-inch iPad Pros sport a massive redesign and gain Face ID, USB-C

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  • Reply 101 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,173member

    mac_128 said:
    kruegdude said:
    mac_128 said:
    Ok. Apple nailed the iPad Pro. They really are listening to us musicians and other creative pros. Everything they added is exactly what we needed. Lightening was too slow as an I/O. It limited how much audio I could stream. USB-C can pass 100s of audio streams, especially with that A12x! 

    A12x, USB-C, and what they did what the Apple Pencil! Yeah baby. Now, how much? I’m worried. $1,500 loaded? 


    Except they removed the headphone jack. More dongles. I know of no musicians asking for that. Lightning wasn’t the issue, as it can support USB 3 speeds, just Apple limiting it. But USB-C is more universal for a device positioned as a PC replacement.
    Shouldn’t you be moving on from the headphone jack concern? The narrative is getting a bit stale and, as someone mentioned earlier in the comments, “those cheap 3.5mm parts are just not up to pro studio quality in terms of ruggedness. 3.5mm is a nightmare in recording studios and live venues”
    No concern at all. Just stating a fact. It's still a widely used, and necessary connector in audio. Removing it from the iPad Pro which is one of the few portable devices that can run pro audio software definitely makes it a less convenient device for those planning to use it for that purpose. The MacBook Air is better suited for that now. Facts.
    It’s not a necessary connector in audio. I admit that while Apple lightning audio works well, USB C audio is a bit of a mess right now. But other than for headphones, and pro models don’t use the 3.5mm jack, they use the 1/4” phone jack, pro equipment isn’t usually connected through the headphone jack. Pros don’t want to use apple’s DACs. They’re not good for pro applications. It either uses a digital connection such as AES, sometimes Toslink, or straight digital from usb, or the Lightning connector.
  • Reply 102 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,173member

    atomic101 said:
    Can anyone comment on the ergonomics of this new design?  The flat sides resemble those of the iPad 1, which has an aesthetic appeal, but might not be as comfortable to grip.  Likewise, with minimal bezel or chin to the frame, it seems like I'll be fighting for an optimal way to lay my hands/fingers on the device when holding it.  Even the promotional photographs show the user uncomfortably pinching the very edges of the frame.  Makes me a cringe a bit.  Currently use a 10.5 inch Pro model, and I'm hesitant of the new design.

    Any thoughts from those coming from the bezel-less iPhone X designs?
    I hold my iPad Pro 12.9” with most of my hand behind the device, with my thumb slightly over the edge. Or, I have my entire hand on the back, and work with the other that way. Sometimes, I have the bottom of the device resting on my forearm. Occasionally, I’ve got my hand over to the side, with the first joint of my fingers over the top.

    but generally, unless I’m standing, it’s on my lap if there’s no surface to put it on.

    people have to get over this. Apple has been shrinking the bezels as they find they aren’t needed to be so big.
  • Reply 103 of 136
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,246member
    dysamoria said:
    melgross said:

    mac_128 said:
    Seems like the 100 year old headphone jack is gone? But still on the brand new MacBook Air!

    Professional audio producers will likely be skipping the iPad Pro, or invest in a lot of dongles ...
    It’s not nearly 100 years old, though analog is. Look, no pro uses that for anything other than headphones these days. Ior at least, they shouldn’t. The quality of the DACs are decent, but not up to pro quality. That may work for a DJ, but not for high quality work, such as recording, which the iPad Pro is used for in mobile a lot more than you would think.

    Edoi: Just saw the AI article. Apple has a $9 adapter for the headphone jack, it you really want it. Also an adapter for SD cards.
    The headphone adapter doesn’t have a charging port on it, does it? This is the problem with the one port and the dongles. People need more than one thing to connect there.
    No. But I'm sure someone like Belkin will make a huge dongle that has one like they did for the Lightning only port iPhones. Unfortunately, no one has yet made a Lightning dongle that allows two headphone jacks at once, so two people can share a movie, music, or video game at the same time. Can't even do that with any wireless Apple solutions either. Perhaps USB-C will have better luck with more devices by third parties. Looks like Apple just gave up control of port access to an open standard, unless they somehow restrict it.
    edited October 30
  • Reply 104 of 136
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,627member
    aknabi said:
    Nice job on the new iPads (though the price points are getting a bit painful)... BUT!!!! The keep the iPad mini 4 in the presentation... no upgrade at all, no price drop... what the??? And did it with a totally straight face.

    It seems it would have been less insulting to drop it from the line up.

    It's actually the one I need right now for my bedtime safari-on-line subscription tech book reader (and in general the weight/size is just right for some of us)... so will continue to wait and hope for a processor bump (or grab one when they drop it).
    It is a bit pathetic.   The problem as i see it is Neural Engine which likely will become very important in short order.   It is a bit foolish to buy anything Apple without it.   I’m actually surprised that they didn’t create a T3, with Neural Engine, for the Macs.  

    They might be be waiting for the TSMC production ramp to catch up.  We have to remember that these A12’s are being built on a very bleeding edge process, you don’t get instant infinite capacity with such processes.  An A12 in the Mini would certainly be nice now even if it ran a couple of hundred MHz slower.  

    Janurary is is a good possibility.  
  • Reply 105 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,173member
    dysamoria said:
    mac_128 said:
    Seems like the 100 year old headphone jack is gone? But still on the brand new MacBook Air!

    Professional audio producers will likely be skipping the iPad Pro, or invest in a lot of dongles ...
    I'd imagine pro audio producers will be using digital I/O transfers rather than analog. But your "concern" over a problem you do not have has been noted.
    Is there a device that supplies the requisite connections? Power, audio, MIDI, USB... It seems the iPad Pro now needs a dock.
    Apple said that midi just hooks up. An “A” to USB C cable should all that’s required. Considering that before, we required different dongles, this is certainly no worse.

    while I was hoping that Apple would keep Lightning, and enhance it, as they’ve been doing, I’m coming to grips with this.
  • Reply 106 of 136
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,627member
    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.

    I suspect Apple is worried about trade with China.  If they keep prices stable production can be more easily moved with costs already taken into account.  There is also the horrible taste of a company with no competition.  This especially in the tablet niche where iPad doesn’t really have competition.  
  • Reply 107 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,173member


    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    My daughter and I also have perfectly good Pencils. But it is what it is. We’re spending $1,250, plus $129 AppleCare for each of these things. Another $129 for the Pencil doesn’t seem like a problem. If you’re a real pro, I’ll say what I always do, have your accountant write this off as with any expense, capital, or otherwise. If you’re not a pro, then it’s an expense for your hobby, and hobbies cost money.
    SpamSandwichRayz2016
  • Reply 108 of 136
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 691member
    melgross said:


    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    My daughter and I also have perfectly good Pencils. But it is what it is. We’re spending $1,250, plus $129 AppleCare for each of these things. Another $129 for the Pencil doesn’t seem like a problem. If you’re a real pro, I’ll say what I always do, have your accountant write this off as with any expense, capital, or otherwise. If you’re not a pro, then it’s an expense for your hobby, and hobbies cost money.
    If you can afford $1300 for an iPad, yes, you can probably afford another $130 for a pencil, but that's not pocket change and it is galling that they make the old pencil incompatible for no apparent reason. Some people here seem to think people should be happy to spend however much Apple wants us to spend and if we complain then we're just a bunch of trolls or haters. 
    edited October 30
  • Reply 109 of 136
    Very impressed with the new iPad Pro. I am going to order 12.9" space grey and a pencil but can't decide between 64G or 256G. If I ordered now it would be delivered on 6th of Nov.
  • Reply 110 of 136
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,207member

    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    The Apple Pencil is a digital stylus pen that works as an input device for the iPad Pro and the 2018 iPad, both tablet computers. Designed by Apple Inc., it was announced on September 9, 2015 alongside the iPad Pro, and released in conjunction with it on November 11, 2015.

    Lots of technology evolution in 3 years. 

    You need to move on.
  • Reply 111 of 136
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 691member
    tmay said:

    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    The Apple Pencil is a digital stylus pen that works as an input device for the iPad Pro and the 2018 iPad, both tablet computers. Designed by Apple Inc., it was announced on September 9, 2015 alongside the iPad Pro, and released in conjunction with it on November 11, 2015.

    Lots of technology evolution in 3 years. 

    You need to move on.
    And a USB mouse that was introduced in 1998 still works just fine with every computer on the market today. And the bluetooth in a 10 year old car still works with an iPhone Xs. I don't expect the old iPad to be able to use the new pencil, but I do expect the new iPad to work with the old pencil. Just because technology advances doesn't mean the old tech is obsolete or necessarily needs to be incompatible.

  • Reply 112 of 136
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,207member
    MplsP said:
    tmay said:

    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    The Apple Pencil is a digital stylus pen that works as an input device for the iPad Pro and the 2018 iPad, both tablet computers. Designed by Apple Inc., it was announced on September 9, 2015 alongside the iPad Pro, and released in conjunction with it on November 11, 2015.

    Lots of technology evolution in 3 years. 

    You need to move on.
    And a USB mouse that was introduced in 1998 still works just fine with every computer on the market today. And the bluetooth in a 10 year old car still works with an iPhone Xs. I don't expect the old iPad to be able to use the new pencil, but I do expect the new iPad to work with the old pencil. Just because technology advances doesn't mean the old tech is obsolete or necessarily needs to be incompatible.

    I didn't expect the new iPad Pro to work with my first generation Pencil, and I'll have to wait until more details are uncovered to make a judgement of Apple's motive for that.

    But feel free to continue your rant unabated.
  • Reply 113 of 136
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 691member
    tmay said:
    MplsP said:
    tmay said:

    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    The Apple Pencil is a digital stylus pen that works as an input device for the iPad Pro and the 2018 iPad, both tablet computers. Designed by Apple Inc., it was announced on September 9, 2015 alongside the iPad Pro, and released in conjunction with it on November 11, 2015.

    Lots of technology evolution in 3 years. 

    You need to move on.
    And a USB mouse that was introduced in 1998 still works just fine with every computer on the market today. And the bluetooth in a 10 year old car still works with an iPhone Xs. I don't expect the old iPad to be able to use the new pencil, but I do expect the new iPad to work with the old pencil. Just because technology advances doesn't mean the old tech is obsolete or necessarily needs to be incompatible.

    I didn't expect the new iPad Pro to work with my first generation Pencil, and I'll have to wait until more details are uncovered to make a judgement of Apple's motive for that.

    But feel free to continue your rant unabated.
    Not ranting, just responding to your flawed logic.
  • Reply 114 of 136
    According to Steve Troughton-Smith the 1TB Pro has 6GB RAM all other configs have 4GB. Has Apple adjusted the RAM in iOS devices based on storage capacity before or is this new? Presumably all other specs are the same so if you want the most RAM possible but don’t need 1TB storage it will cost you an additional $400.
    repressthis
  • Reply 115 of 136
    MplsP said:
    tmay said:

    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    The Apple Pencil is a digital stylus pen that works as an input device for the iPad Pro and the 2018 iPad, both tablet computers. Designed by Apple Inc., it was announced on September 9, 2015 alongside the iPad Pro, and released in conjunction with it on November 11, 2015.

    Lots of technology evolution in 3 years. 

    You need to move on.
    And a USB mouse that was introduced in 1998 still works just fine with every computer on the market today. And the bluetooth in a 10 year old car still works with an iPhone Xs. I don't expect the old iPad to be able to use the new pencil, but I do expect the new iPad to work with the old pencil. Just because technology advances doesn't mean the old tech is obsolete or necessarily needs to be incompatible.

    This. One should be able to pair the 1st gen Pencil using a lighting to USB adapter. Is there some technical reason this isn’t possible? If not then it really is a money grab.
  • Reply 116 of 136
    melgross said:


    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    My daughter and I also have perfectly good Pencils. But it is what it is. We’re spending $1,250, plus $129 AppleCare for each of these things. Another $129 for the Pencil doesn’t seem like a problem. If you’re a real pro, I’ll say what I always do, have your accountant write this off as with any expense, capital, or otherwise. If you’re not a pro, then it’s an expense for your hobby, and hobbies cost money.
    Well if you’re already spending X what’s the problem with spending an extra Y. This is how Apple gets people to spend more money. Like with the RAM. Is there a technical reason the non terabyte models only get 4GB RAM while the 1TB model gets 6GB? More RAM is never a bad thing but now to get it you have to spend $400 more than the base model even if you don’t need 1TB of storage. I ordered a new iPad Pro because I use my iPad all the time and it really looks like a fantastic device. But the price increases and nickel and diming is getting annoying. The new Pro I ordered with pencil, case and Apple Care was close to $1600. That’s a lot of money and every year now prices go up. :(
  • Reply 117 of 136
    tmay said:

    Another observation: the current iPad Pros are still in the line up but no price change. Even the iPad mini hangs around at the same price. And according to The Verge the new Pencil isn’t compatable with existing iPads and the 1st gen Pencil wont work with the new iPads. WTF.
    WTF what? New things don't work with old things all the time in computing. Are you new to computers or something?
    You really can be an ass you know. I have a perfectly good Pencil that is now useless with the new Pro I ordered. And the new Pencil is $30 more. So did the engineers and designers working on the Pencil not know anything about the iPad Pro pipeline and that lightning would be replaced by USB-C? Did anybody say hey, maybe paring via lightning port isn’t the best idea? Isn’t Apple supposed to be all about the best user experience?
    The Apple Pencil is a digital stylus pen that works as an input device for the iPad Pro and the 2018 iPad, both tablet computers. Designed by Apple Inc., it was announced on September 9, 2015 alongside the iPad Pro, and released in conjunction with it on November 11, 2015.

    Lots of technology evolution in 3 years. 

    You need to move on.
    I have a pair of Bluetooth headphones that are more than 3 years old. They work perfectly fine with my new iPhone. Getting no more than 3 years out of a $100 accessory sucks.
  • Reply 118 of 136
    thttht Posts: 2,928member
    mario said:
    Give us Terminal, filesystem, Xcode and it could become viable computing device. Until then, this is glorified facebook machine.
    I totally agree with you that Apple should be racing to add shell functionality (by way of a Terminal.app), more integrated file viewers and access, better input functionality, overlapping apps, Xcode, FCPX, external monitor support, external storage access, etc. 

    It can’t be stressed enough that Apple has to race to add features to enable it to do everything a PC can do. 

    But totally disagree with you about your latter statement. As it stands now with iOS 12, it is a perfectly capable machine for the vast majority of people. People can do a lot of web development with sandboxes shell apps right now on it. Run the web properties, do their art, school stuff, office automation. 

    In time, it will cover developer and engineering type use cases better. 
  • Reply 119 of 136
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,640member
    ascii said:
    How much RAM will it have, more than 4?

    Apple never says how much RAM is in an iOS device.
    Apparently, the 64GB, 256GB, 512GB models will get 4GB RAM and the 1TB model will get 6GB RAM


  • Reply 120 of 136
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,640member
    According to Steve Troughton-Smith the 1TB Pro has 6GB RAM all other configs have 4GB. Has Apple adjusted the RAM in iOS devices based on storage capacity before or is this new? Presumably all other specs are the same so if you want the most RAM possible but don’t need 1TB storage it will cost you an additional $400.
    This is new
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