Even with all the improvements to the iPad Pro, it still can't replace my Mac yet

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  • Reply 21 of 77
    Andrew_OSU said: I think many pros are comfortable paying more money for pro-level apps on iPad, but the market is small.
    That remains to be seen. The Affinity lineup, which was already essentially a budget competitor to legacy desktop software, sells for $30 less on iOS vs macOS. I think the approval of subscription based pricing for the iOS App Store is probably the main driver for companies like Autodesk and Adobe taking the plunge and providing full versions of their software. AutoCAD is something like $1500 a year via subscription on desktop. 
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 22 of 77
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,957member
    So, I agree with what was said in the article. I do a lot of what he does, so I get the ease, and difficulty.

    but I believe that 2018 is a transitional year for the iPad Pro. I’m sure most people don’t remember the numerous articles that said that iOS 12 was going to be a “fix iOS problems” year, and not a major update year. Last year we saw a lot of iPad oriented features in iOS 11. But little change there in iOS 12. We expected to see major changes to the Desktop, but didn’t.

    i believe that 2019 will be the year when Apple separates the iPad from the iPhone in a very distinctive way. Apple has done a very good job in making the iPad Pro a more serious machine. Larger screens have been very important to that. In fact, I was hoping that Apple would have an even larger screen that 12.9” this year. While I like the idea of the 12.9 being slightly smaller and lighter, I would have loved a 13.5” screen at a higher Rez, instead.

    so what would I want to see next year?

    touchpad support

    external drive support

    fully operational USB C support

    additional USB C connector

    better windowing on screen. I.e. overlapping windows.

    better access to files, including hierarchical folders.

    something we won’t get for sure - fast SD card reader/writer.

    second monitor support in addition to mirroring, and true 5k output.

    there are others, but that’s enough for one major upgrade.
  • Reply 23 of 77
    DAalseth said:
    [...] You mentioned several times about adding mouse support. No, just no.
    If Apple were to provide mouse support, you would be under no obligation to use it. Prefer the pencil? Cool. Keep using that. Find it awkward when you're looking at a big 5K display instead of the iPad screen? No problem. Use the mouse.

    In my work I have several input devices. For some tasks the mouse is ideal. For others, the keyboard is better. On the timeline the jog/shuttle wheel is handy and intuitive. For pushing buttons, the touchscreen is fastest. For riding levels I use a bank of virtual faders.

    There's a LOT of overlap between what all of those devices do -- just about anything one can do with the touchscreen or wheel can also be done with the mouse -- but it's faster, more intuitive, and ultimately supportive of the creative process to work with tools that excel at specific tasks. The ones I choose may not be the same as you might like, but that doesn't mean they need to be excluded from the mix.
  • Reply 24 of 77
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,957member
    Andrew_OSU said: I think many pros are comfortable paying more money for pro-level apps on iPad, but the market is small.
    That remains to be seen. The Affinity lineup, which was already essentially a budget competitor to legacy desktop software, sells for $30 less on iOS vs macOS. I think the approval of subscription based pricing for the iOS App Store is probably the main driver for companies like Autodesk and Adobe taking the plunge and providing full versions of their software. AutoCAD is something like $1500 a year via subscription on desktop. 
    I subscribe to AutoCad360 on my iPad. There are two options, last I checked. The $99 a year one, which I took, and a $250 a year which offers many more rendered forms, which I don’t need, as well as some BIM functions, which I also don’t need. The fact that they will use the full Desktop engine is pretty exciting.

    affinity Photo is a nice app.  But it’s got a very confused UI, which can be clumsy to use, and some features which remain screwed up. There are other good editors on iOS, such as Enlight, which I like. Lightroom is good too. Really panting for Photoshop.

    like it or not, so far Office360 for iOS is actually pretty good. I like it better than the Mac version.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 25 of 77
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,957member
    DAalseth said:
    [...] You mentioned several times about adding mouse support. No, just no.
    If Apple were to provide mouse support, you would be under no obligation to use it. Prefer the pencil? Cool. Keep using that. Find it awkward when you're looking at a big 5K display instead of the iPad screen? No problem. Use the mouse.

    In my work I have several input devices. For some tasks the mouse is ideal. For others, the keyboard is better. On the timeline the jog/shuttle wheel is handy and intuitive. For pushing buttons, the touchscreen is fastest. For riding levels I use a bank of virtual faders.

    There's a LOT of overlap between what all of those devices do -- just about anything one can do with the touchscreen or wheel can also be done with the mouse -- but it's faster, more intuitive, and ultimately supportive of the creative process to work with tools that excel at specific tasks. The ones I choose may not be the same as you might like, but that doesn't mean they need to be excluded from the mix.
    I’ve always thought it kind of funny when people get negative about added features, particularly when most of them are transparent to those who don’t need, or want to use them. I’ll bet when they come out, some of those protesting will use them too. People protested the Files folder, as though that would change everything for them, and force them to use it. They should know that Apple rarely works that way.

    in fact, in the older days, most features on the Mac were unabashedly pro oriented, and you had to explicitly turn them off. Now, it’s the other way around. On the iPad, we see people complaining that the device is adding pro features. Never thought I’d see that day come.
    edited November 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 77

    Rayz2016 said:

    [...] In this case, folk want a machine that is a laptop and a tablet, so they don't have to buy both.

    Fair enough, but if that form factor is such a big wow, then how come none of these hybrids seem to be outselling the iPad?

    Maybe hybrids aren't outselling tablets because most people don't use their computers to create TV shows, apps, etc.? The "creators" market is not as large as the pool of "consumers."

    Some forms of interaction -- like a mouse/trackpad -- are unnecessary for what MOST people do with their computer, so touch-only is a viable approach. That doesn't mean they're unnecessary for ALL people. For some, like the author of the article, it would make a big difference, and he explained how and why.

    If we're targeting only the largest market, then touch-only is fine. But Apple professes to also be targeting a much smaller market -- creators -- and that set will, in certain circumstances, need things the masses don't.
    Andrew_OSUmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 77
    Where is the mouse support? Why can't you connect an external drive? But cameras are detected; yet, the storage in a camera is essentially an external drive. Just too much missing here. Bottom line is that the preferred method for getting data too and from this device is app support. So use iCloud, or apps for Google Drive, OneDrive, Dropbox, whatever. And that is probably going to be slow. This isn't anything new for tablets. Older tablets, pre USB C, on Android for example one had to use app support to get data into the device. They would always shows up as external drives when connected to a PC, and you could get data onto them that way but it was always slow. I've even used Bluetooth to transfer data too and from Android tablets. Not sure if that is an option here; it definitely does not appear to be part of the conversation but it is something worth looking into. The pencil is improved and a pencil gives precision work whereas a mouse can be unweildy on anything other than a PC or laptop. I imagine this is one reason they left that out here. Why people are complaining about dexterity; if you don't use a writing instrument anymore because of your computers yeah you will have to relearn how to do so again, and yes it is going to hurt because your muscles are getting worked out again but that does not necessarily mean that a mouse is better. I'll take a mouse on a tablet for laughs and giggles but it isn't a deal breaker to me.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 28 of 77
    melgross said: I subscribe to AutoCad360 on my iPad. There are two options, last I checked. The $99 a year one, which I took, and a $250 a year which offers many more rendered forms, which I don’t need, as well as some BIM functions, which I also don’t need. The fact that they will use the full Desktop engine is pretty exciting.
    Isn't Fusion360 on iOS just a companion app to the desktop version which is $495 per year? I'm talking about the full version of AutoCAD, which is a different product than Fusion360. They mentioned in the iPad Pro announcement that full AutoCAD would be coming to iPad Pro.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 29 of 77
    tht said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Who said that it had to replace your MacBook Pro?

    Seems to be an assumption festering around here that because it's as fast as a laptop then Apple has to start sticking all sorts of crap into it so that it becomes a laptop.

    Not entirely sure that's the endgame here.
    Philosophically, Apple should let people use an iPad to their fullest creativity. For a lot of people, it will be a better device to use than a MBP. 

    The complaints aren’t about turning an iPad into laptop, even though it may sound like it. It’s about enabling the iPad to be just as functional as a PC device like a macOS computer. That is, let people compute with it. 

    It doesn’t mean iOS will be turned into macOS in look and feel, but it does mean their functionality should be the same: shell access, easier file organization, accessories, more display space, more ports, more functionality. The UX should scale from novice users to expert users. 

    People are essentially banging on Apple’s door to let them use the device in more varied ways. It behooves Apple to enable it. 
    Kind of like a Microsoft Surface...
  • Reply 30 of 77
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,490member
    Thanks for this detailed analysis. For me an even bigger impedement to making my iPad Pro my main machine is the continued clunkiness of iOS for ordinary workflow, especially when it comes to filing and locating documents. I rely on years’ worth of documents and graphics carefully stored in topical and chronological folders and sub-folders. Yes it’s possible to do some of that with the iPad but the process is extremely clumsy compared to the keyboard-driven commands available on a Mac. Third party efforts to solve these problems seem only to complicate matters. We’re now forced to SUBSCRIBE to Microsoft’s Office suite for iOS for an interface brimming with features I don’t and a proprietary document-sharing scheme that I just can’t seem to master. I get that Apple would prefer everyone to own both devices, but at this point the decision to withhold actual Mac OS features from iPad seems merely petty
    I don't think the lack of a true file system on iOS is because Apple is petty - I think it's because they sincerely believe that the vast majority of users don't want to deal with a file system and when they did, they didn't keep it remotely organized like you (or I) do, so Apple has essentially made the file system invisible.   I couldn't live with that, so I can never see a time when I'd switch all my work over to a Pad.   And as phone screens get larger, I see less reason to carry an iPad at all as I don't want to deal with three devices, but if I did, I would reserve the iPad for the things it does best, which is mainly consumption.  

    While a MBP is certainly larger and heavier than an iPad, it's so thin and light that I really don't see the problem in continuing to use one (aside from cost and user-upgrade limitations) for power usage, which most people don't need because most people don't do much more than snapshots, bad video which they don't edit, Facebook, Instagram, web searching, email, etc., for which a Pad more than suffices.   

    These are different tools and I personally see no reason to combine them as they each have distinct advantages and disadvantages.   

    As far as Office is concerned, one is forced to subscribe on MacOS as well, so there's no difference there.  I'm still using Office 2011, but there's going to come a time when that's not going to work anymore.  
  • Reply 31 of 77
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 272member
    The essentials for my list. 
    1. At least 2 USB-C connectors. (Thunderbolt would be better but let’s start with 2 USB-C.)
    2. For fine input I would be OK with extending the use of the Apple Pencil to manipulate the entire UI. 
    iPad Pro USB-C should support trackpads using the Apple Pencil.
    3. Multi overlapping windows in iOS. Even for managing emails, using Mac OS for simple email management (with overlapping windows) is much easier than the rigid limits of split screen iOS.   

    Start there, and then the iPad Pro could be considered a laptop replacement. Until that happens, the new iPad Pros are just faster versions of what Apple has provided before. 
  • Reply 32 of 77
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,615member
    I have no idea why it is important to transfer to an iPad. I love my 13" mbp and have zero desire to go all iPad. If I needed pencil support I'd have both. I guess I am 'truck driver' at heart. 
    macplusplusdewme
  • Reply 33 of 77
    bb-15bb-15 Posts: 272member
    tylersdad said:
    tht said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Who said that it had to replace your MacBook Pro?

    Seems to be an assumption festering around here that because it's as fast as a laptop then Apple has to start sticking all sorts of crap into it so that it becomes a laptop.

    Not entirely sure that's the endgame here.
    Philosophically, Apple should let people use an iPad to their fullest creativity. For a lot of people, it will be a better device to use than a MBP. 

    The complaints aren’t about turning an iPad into laptop, even though it may sound like it. It’s about enabling the iPad to be just as functional as a PC device like a macOS computer. That is, let people compute with it. 

    It doesn’t mean iOS will be turned into macOS in look and feel, but it does mean their functionality should be the same: shell access, easier file organization, accessories, more display space, more ports, more functionality. The UX should scale from novice users to expert users. 

    People are essentially banging on Apple’s door to let them use the device in more varied ways. It behooves Apple to enable it. 
    Kind of like a Microsoft Surface...
    Not really.
    - Microsoft starting with Windows 8 has a hybrid OS; a complete mouse GUI one for the desktop and a very limited tablet finger touch UI. The Surface is essentially a laptop (mouse desktop OS) with some finger touch features tacked on.
    - The iPad by contrast is a full finger touch OS. What is being asked is that the function of the finger touch based iOS be extended through hardware (2 USB-C ports) and software (overlapping window support). But with these changes the iPad/iOS would remain a touch based UI. 
    tht
  • Reply 34 of 77
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,957member
    melgross said: I subscribe to AutoCad360 on my iPad. There are two options, last I checked. The $99 a year one, which I took, and a $250 a year which offers many more rendered forms, which I don’t need, as well as some BIM functions, which I also don’t need. The fact that they will use the full Desktop engine is pretty exciting.
    Isn't Fusion360 on iOS just a companion app to the desktop version which is $495 per year? I'm talking about the full version of AutoCAD, which is a different product than Fusion360. They mentioned in the iPad Pro announcement that full AutoCAD would be coming to iPad Pro.
    Whatever it may be under the hood, the name is AutoCad360. It’s a full CAD app. What they announced was the Desktop AutoCad engine would be coming. Exactly what that means is hard to say in terms of a difference in the feature set. They’ve been adding more features every few weeks, or so. When the first iPad Pro 12.9” came out they upped the features and performance.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 35 of 77
    Running FCPX on an iPad isn't going to happen any time soon, and as others have said, why would you want it to? Video editing requires vast amounts of RAM, processor/gpu power, and storage. Not happening. I have last year's MacBook Pro and hate it when I have to use that for video editing instead of my desktop. Use a tool suited to the task at hand.
  • Reply 36 of 77
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,957member

    tylersdad said:
    tht said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    Who said that it had to replace your MacBook Pro?

    Seems to be an assumption festering around here that because it's as fast as a laptop then Apple has to start sticking all sorts of crap into it so that it becomes a laptop.

    Not entirely sure that's the endgame here.
    Philosophically, Apple should let people use an iPad to their fullest creativity. For a lot of people, it will be a better device to use than a MBP. 

    The complaints aren’t about turning an iPad into laptop, even though it may sound like it. It’s about enabling the iPad to be just as functional as a PC device like a macOS computer. That is, let people compute with it. 

    It doesn’t mean iOS will be turned into macOS in look and feel, but it does mean their functionality should be the same: shell access, easier file organization, accessories, more display space, more ports, more functionality. The UX should scale from novice users to expert users. 

    People are essentially banging on Apple’s door to let them use the device in more varied ways. It behooves Apple to enable it. 
    Kind of like a Microsoft Surface...
    It’s interesting that even the new Surface 6 still comes with a usb 2 port. I also find the screen to be too small for proper Windows use, though some have no problem. It also doesn’t run all Windows software that well, though you can usually get by on the low end models.
    bb-15
  • Reply 37 of 77
    I could definitely see replacing my very aged MBP that my wife uses with a new IPP (as it would suite her needs for web browsing, calendaring, writing, photos, and email at least acceptably if not terrifically).  But, my daughters also use that computer in their own accounts. I’m still firmly in the “computer is a shared resource” camp rather than “everyone gets their own $1000-$2000 device” especially since now they increasingly have an expensive phone accompanying them. I’d need the iPad/IPP to support multiple user accounts.
    Like mouse support, this may never come to the tablets.
  • Reply 38 of 77
    thttht Posts: 3,301member
    EddyMac said:
    Running FCPX on an iPad isn't going to happen any time soon, and as others have said, why would you want it to? Video editing requires vast amounts of RAM, processor/gpu power, and storage. Not happening. I have last year's MacBook Pro and hate it when I have to use that for video editing instead of my desktop. Use a tool suited to the task at hand.
    If people run FCPX on a MBP13 or MBP15 while on the go, they should be able to on an iPad Pro. The processing power is there. More than there. The only thing really limiting the iPad Pro, well, outside of the lack of FCPX for iPad, is RAM. Those things are entirely up to Apple. They can simply choose to have 8 GB and 16 GB RAM configurations on the iPad Pro. They can simply choose to port FCPX, LPX, Xcode to the iPad Pro. They can simply choose to support extended desktops on external monitors while sitting at a desk.

    Let people use the devices of their choosing to the fullest extent possible. People want to get an iPad to do all the tablet things it enables, and they also want to do all these other things. They know that these are possible on an iPad, but Apple is limiting what can be done, for whatever reasons, which limit adoption. They really have to race to enable features so that it can do everything a PC can do while doing all the tablet things (pen and paper replacement).
  • Reply 39 of 77
    From a bit different perspective I can say the same. It’s about two weeks I bought mi first iPad (mini 2). Yesterday I needed post file to web form. At that moment I can say get quite mad. Until then I considered Files app handicaped. After this experience I can call it only crippled. And this gave me clear picture about posibility of iPad as computer replacement. Finding decent free image editor (not applaying filters on pictures) is not easy as well. My findings until now.
  • Reply 40 of 77
    Andrew_OSUAndrew_OSU Posts: 265member, editor
    EddyMac said:
    Running FCPX on an iPad isn't going to happen any time soon, and as others have said, why would you want it to? Video editing requires vast amounts of RAM, processor/gpu power, and storage. Not happening. I have last year's MacBook Pro and hate it when I have to use that for video editing instead of my desktop. Use a tool suited to the task at hand.
    The iPad can be that tool. That's my point. I have a powerful MacBook Pro that makes easy work of 4K video, churning out multiple videos a day. But the new iPad Pros, actually can output video faster than my Mac can. It is a powerful device. It is 100-percent suited for that task, we just need the software to make it happen.
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