Even with all the improvements to the iPad Pro, it still can't replace my Mac yet

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 77
    The last paragraph is everything for me too. iOS 13 needs to bring some serious game to iPad period end of discussion.  I will probably have a 12.9 iPad Pro, and I know it’s limitations. But damn, 13 better bring the house down.... especially at these prices. 
    edited November 2018 Andrew_OSU
  • Reply 42 of 77
    Oh, good grief. How many times does Apple have to say that they have no interest in making a hybrid tablet/laptop for people to believe them?

    If you want a powerful tablet that is still intended to be a tablet, buy an iPad Pro. If you want a great laptop, buy a MacBook. If you want a device that has all sorts of stuff shoehorned into it so that it’s all things to all people, buy a Surface or third-party windows box. 

    The folks at Apple have looked at the Surface, raised an eyebrow and clearly said, “why would we want to do that?” It’s a good question, because those things end up being jacks-of-all-trades-but-masters-of-none. That isn’t what Apple does. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 43 of 77
    thttht Posts: 3,317member
    AppleZulu said:
    Oh, good grief. How many times does Apple have to say that they have no interest in making a hybrid tablet/laptop for people to believe them?

    If you want a powerful tablet that is still intended to be a tablet, buy an iPad Pro. If you want a great laptop, buy a MacBook. If you want a device that has all sorts of stuff shoehorned into it so that it’s all things to all people, buy a Surface or third-party windows box. 

    The folks at Apple have looked at the Surface, raised an eyebrow and clearly said, “why would we want to do that?” It’s a good question, because those things end up being jacks-of-all-trades-but-masters-of-none. That isn’t what Apple does. 
    I don’t like the semantics of this argument. We want to use an iPad to the fullest extent possible, from drawing on it, using it as an input device while its contents are displayed on a 30” external monitor, use it and an external monitor vertically with external input devices, be able to program on it, create complex analysis workflows, work with GB to TB of data, play games on it from simple crossword puzzles to 3D FPS games, do office automation from simple tens of kbytes documents to hundreds of MB spreadsheets, surfing web pages, playing music, to editing video.

    It shouldn’t need keyboard or external monitors to do this. These things should be available if there is market it for them (and there is), but out of the box, it should be able to do everything, after a few app downloads. Ie, let it compute.

    It’s not a desire to have a hybrid, a 2-in-1, a TabetPC, a swiveler, a twistable, a foldable, detachable, and whatever name people are using. It’s a desire to have just a monolithic slab with a UI surface, as thin and light as possible, as flexible as possible. There’s this big push for it because Apple is only a few OS updates from doing it. It’s not hardware, it’s not even technical issues in software that is limiting it. It’s just Apple not implementing the features. So, the push is to let it compute.
    blurpbleepbloopelijahg
  • Reply 44 of 77
    jdb8167jdb8167 Posts: 181member
    Lots of good ideas here but many of them bring up issues that Apple has to think through carefully.

    For example, the idea of separating iOS iPhone from iOS iPad (which admittedly they already do to some extent) causes problems with the low-end iPad. That iPad should not get complicated features that only professionals will want. Or should it? Or should those features be optional? Some things, like external file system support in the Files app aren’t a problem because regular iPad users are unlikely to ever see it but other things like creating a windowing system for use with external monitors would be hugely problematic if that bled over onto the main screen.

    Mouse/trackpad support is another problem that seems easy but isn’t really. Right now, the only cursor displayed is when focused in a text box. Would your pointer support create a floating mouse cursor? How does that interact with touch? WIth the pencil? These problems can be solved but they could impact the usability of the iPad for most users way beyond there usefulness for professionals. As an interim solution, I would love a touch enabled space bar on the iPad Pro that acts like the long-press touch with the on-screen keyboard. You have fine cursor control but only when in a text box. The most pressing productivity problem can be solved without confusing people that it is a general trackpad solution. A new design that won’t be confused with the old.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 45 of 77
    Andrew_OSUAndrew_OSU Posts: 268member, editor
    AppleZulu said:
    Oh, good grief. How many times does Apple have to say that they have no interest in making a hybrid tablet/laptop for people to believe them?

    If you want a powerful tablet that is still intended to be a tablet, buy an iPad Pro. If you want a great laptop, buy a MacBook. If you want a device that has all sorts of stuff shoehorned into it so that it’s all things to all people, buy a Surface or third-party windows box. 

    The folks at Apple have looked at the Surface, raised an eyebrow and clearly said, “why would we want to do that?” It’s a good question, because those things end up being jacks-of-all-trades-but-masters-of-none. That isn’t what Apple does. 
    Talk about good grief. Apple has always said they do not want to make a touchscreen Mac. They never said they wanted to limit the iPad because making it too powerful would challenge a Mac. Apple's been steadily working towards making the iPad more powerful and has pitched it as a computer replacement, not a low-power mobile consumption device.
  • Reply 46 of 77
    Andrew_OSUAndrew_OSU Posts: 268member, editor
    jdb8167 said:
    Lots of good ideas here but many of them bring up issues that Apple has to think through carefully.

    For example, the idea of separating iOS iPhone from iOS iPad (which admittedly they already do to some extent) causes problems with the low-end iPad. That iPad should not get complicated features that only professionals will want. Or should it? Or should those features be optional? Some things, like external file system support in the Files app aren’t a problem because regular iPad users are unlikely to ever see it but other things like creating a windowing system for use with external monitors would be hugely problematic if that bled over onto the main screen.

    Mouse/trackpad support is another problem that seems easy but isn’t really. Right now, the only cursor displayed is when focused in a text box. Would your pointer support create a floating mouse cursor? How does that interact with touch? WIth the pencil? These problems can be solved but they could impact the usability of the iPad for most users way beyond there usefulness for professionals. As an interim solution, I would love a touch enabled space bar on the iPad Pro that acts like the long-press touch with the on-screen keyboard. You have fine cursor control but only when in a text box. The most pressing productivity problem can be solved without confusing people that it is a general trackpad solution. A new design that won’t be confused with the old.
    I totally agree Apple needs to think through these situations carefully instead of just rushing into them. That explains the baby steps each year in this direction. The iPad has always had significantly more features than iPhone between PiP, better multitasking, split screen support, slide over, and more. The new iPad has increased this further by utilizing USB-C, supporting output to 5K monitors, and keeping the new Apple Pencil 2 exclusive.

    Certain features -- ones that require specific hardware -- would of course be limited to the newest or Pro iPads rather than the aging or entry level. Ones that are software though could easily span the gamut and come in some ways to any iPad that supports that version of iOS. Apple already limits some software features to newer devices, such as Group FaceTime, so it isn't unheard of for Apple to do so when necessary.
  • Reply 47 of 77
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,704member
    Bit of a mistake having a person who primarily edits video for a living make this comparison, surely?

    I have been reading a number of articles recently about people who believe they could (or already have) replaced their notebooks with an iPad Pro (previous or forthcoming version) and that it could handle all their routine tasks with as little as just a keyboard to add onto it. I fancy myself a bit of a power-user (rather than a typical user, as I do use my computers to make my living), and yet I have found — much to my surprise over the past two years — that all but two of the things I routinely do with a computer can be handled by the iPad. If I really wanted to, indeed, I could get that list down to one without much effort

    Out here in the non-nerd real world, people use their computers and phones primarily and almost exclusively for social, surfing, media, games, photo, and light (very light) productivity stuff. Not only can the iPad Pro handle all that with ease (and excels handily in some areas, like drawing and photo editing) — I don’t even need the Pro model to accomplish what I need!

    Can anyone seriously say that the base new iPad Pro with a keyboard and optional pencil (around $1K) isn’t a better value for “normal” stuff than the MacBook? I don’t think you can, especially once you remember that the benchmarks of the iPad Pro are on par with the MacBook Pro, which costs quite a bit more. Yes, a user might be more dependent on cloud services for things like Photo storage if they only have an iPad versus having a notebook, but ... that’s the way things are going already, and it’s safer than local storage anyway.
    elijahg
  • Reply 48 of 77
    Video editing?  You have tried LumaFusion haven’t you?  And Videoleap for quick work?  And for audio work have you seen what Ferrite is capable of?  More than Adobe Audition (live level mixing without having to ‘draw’ audio envelopes and then replaying). If you haven’t got them yet it’s worth having a go with them. 
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 49 of 77

    I'm (60) most comfortable on my iMac and 2017 MacBook. I do have a iPad mini, SE, AppleWatch, AirPods, and an ATV.

    However, my daughter (33) is most comfortable with her MacBook Air. She also has an iPad mini, iPhone X, AppleWatch, and an ATV. No iMac!

    I think her daughter (0) will be most comfortable with an iPad, AppleWatch and the latest iPhone. Or perhaps just the a large iPhone, AirPods, and an AppleWatch! :)


    But I like Tim's approach...

    For everyday, a 10s in his pocket and an AppleWatch on his wrist.

    For work: a 27" iMac sitting on his desk. 

    For home: a 4K AppleTV. 

    For play: just the AppleWatch (Cellular)

    For driving: AppleCarPlay in his Porsche Boxster.

    For travel: an iPadPro with AirPods and the appropriate charging cables in a small backpack. 


    There! Done! We no longer have to quibble as though we're at a quilting bee about which device is best!

    Best of both worlds, MacOS and iOS!

    Regards.


    edited November 2018 macpluspluschasm
  • Reply 50 of 77
    I'd love to see the ability to colour calibrate the iPad Pro display. There are apps for this now but you have to view the photos within the app to see the calibrated version. You can't edit in photo editing apps while using the profile.

    This seems like a no-brainer for photography.
  • Reply 51 of 77
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,145member
    Personally I am not in delusion to replace my Mac with an iPad Pro. I have iMac and Macbook Pro, but they are getting used less and less, not because iPad Pro replace them, but because I have no reason to use them beyond what I need. Secondly, I simply love working with iPad Pro because it's just so simple and pleasure to use. Like majority of users, I am not interested in tinkering with file systems or develop a software. I do write a blog, editing photos and design a website which iPad Pro are completely able to do. As for the flow, I use Files extensively. All my files neatly organised in iCloud, I have access to all of them from the Apps I use. Drag and drop in iOS multitasking works flawlessly. I also love the portability. Bringing all my engineering drawings anywhere within my iPad is so efficient. Zooming and panning are never so easy with paperless system. So yeah, I will keep my Mac, but I find myself use iPad Pro more and more everyday.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 52 of 77
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,729member
    teknishn said:
    The last paragraph is everything for me too. iOS 13 needs to bring some serious game to iPad period end of discussion.  I will probably have a 12.9 iPad Pro, and I know it’s limitations. But damn, 13 better bring the house down.... especially at these prices. 
    This. Exactly. Ipad pros are priced on par with many laptops. Add another $250 for a pencil and keyboard to that price and you’ve hit low-end MacBook prices. (Or more) Apple keeps touting the power of the iPad Pro and its ability to do productivity work. The A12x is a very powerful chip, so there’s no reason an ipad couldn’t do everything a MacBook does, it’s just crippled by iOS.

    I got a 12” iPad Pro a year and a half ago hopping to use it as a replacement for my aging MacBook Air. Technically it could do almost everything I needed it to do, but quite often workflows were clumsy and awkward to say the least. Time and again I trudged through tasks that would have been a breeze on my Air but were tedious and downright painful on the ipad. I found myself unconsciously avoiding doing stuff on the ipad because it was so difficult to accomplish.

    The last straw came when I was on a flight and trying to get some work done only to find out that iOS had conveniently moved some needed documents out of my ipad’s Memory and back to the cloud. I had over 150GB free, so there was no need to do this but iOS evidently felt it necessary. The end result was iOS and by extension my ipad was preventing me from working. 

    Until Apple steps up their game with iOS, the ipad will stil be ‘just a tablet,’ no matter how good the processor is.
    djsherlyelijahg
  • Reply 53 of 77
    thttht Posts: 3,317member
    jdb8167 said:
    Lots of good ideas here but many of them bring up issues that Apple has to think through carefully.

    For example, the idea of separating iOS iPhone from iOS iPad (which admittedly they already do to some extent) causes problems with the low-end iPad. That iPad should not get complicated features that only professionals will want. Or should it? Or should those features be optional? Some things, like external file system support in the Files app aren’t a problem because regular iPad users are unlikely to ever see it but other things like creating a windowing system for use with external monitors would be hugely problematic if that bled over onto the main screen.

    Mouse/trackpad support is another problem that seems easy but isn’t really. Right now, the only cursor displayed is when focused in a text box. Would your pointer support create a floating mouse cursor? How does that interact with touch? WIth the pencil? These problems can be solved but they could impact the usability of the iPad for most users way beyond there usefulness for professionals. As an interim solution, I would love a touch enabled space bar on the iPad Pro that acts like the long-press touch with the on-screen keyboard. You have fine cursor control but only when in a text box. The most pressing productivity problem can be solved without confusing people that it is a general trackpad solution. A new design that won’t be confused with the old.
    Weird comment as that is how it works in iOS 12 right now. (You were thinking of the iPhone software keyboard?) Long press on an iPad’s software keyboard’s space bar turns the software keyboard into a trackpad to move the text insertion cursor. Then, you can do text selection with two finger taps, and changing the text selection with two finger moves.

    There are currently three ways to move the text insertion cursor on an iPad: long press on the space bar turns it into a trackpad for text insertion (just added in iOS 12, two finger move in the software keyboard moves the text insertion cursor right away no pause needed (goes back to iOS 8?), and two finger move in the text field in of itself will move the text insertion cursor, no pause needed.

    Two finger tap on the keyboard selects a word. Two finger double tap after a word is selected selects the paragraph. Two finger move left moves the left selection point. Two finger right moves the right selection point.

    It works great for Notes or simple vanilla text fields. It’s a bit buggy in the browser based HTML/JavaScript textfields on web forums. It needs to be fixed. Arrow keys need to be added to the software keyboard too.

    If there was as true trackpad controlling a pointer or cursor - which can be added and accessed through the keyboard key pop up and there is two keyboard mode keys on the iPad keyboard (undock/split/hide key and the language key) right now - it would behave like a single finger tap and touch. Foreground apps get the multi-touch gestures seen on current Mac trackpads. Single finger slides moves the pointer. 

    For overlapping apps, there will have to be window sizing handles like in Split View and Slide Over today for finger control. For trackpad control, the pointer can hover and change icons to indicate a different action like it is today. App closures can be done as they are today, slide finger up from the bottom, app switcher UI flies in, and you slide the app away. You can double tap a windows top (currently mostly empty white space or title bar space on iOS 12) to maximize or in-maximise. The title bar area can be used as a target for moving the app window.

    Apple will have to have a Settings switch for overlapping windows or make it so it can be activated accidentally, but net-net, I think they can get the UI to scale from novice to expert users.
  • Reply 54 of 77
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,704member
    nick8718 said:
    Video editing?  You have tried LumaFusion haven’t you?  And Videoleap for quick work?  And for audio work have you seen what Ferrite is capable of?  More than Adobe Audition (live level mixing without having to ‘draw’ audio envelopes and then replaying). If you haven’t got them yet it’s worth having a go with them. 
    Nick: thanks for the suggestions. Ferrite I’ve heard of but haven’t gotten around to trying, since I love Amadeus Pro so much. I’ll also check out those video editors you mentioned. Cheers!
  • Reply 55 of 77
    I haven't looked for ways to make an iPad replace my MacBook Pro because even just casual use keeps exposing obstacles that suggest I shouldn't bother (at least not yet).

    I recently tried to AirDrop a couple large documents from my Mac into the "Files" section of my iPhone. Apparently that's not what Files is for. I didn't bother looking into what it actually does because whatever that is, it doesn't seem to be what I want. Maybe it's a useful feature, but my first (and so far only) experience with it was not positive.

    In my work I regularly have to create more than one version of a project. When I finish the first version I copy it and make changes to the copy that I then save as another version. I don't see an easy way to do that in iOS.

    I get that a new UI will mean learning new methods and I have no problem with that, but so far there seem to be some common uses that just plain don't have an iOS equivalent, and others, like text editing, involve such absurd gymnastics as to be more of a deterrent to the platform than a "solution."

    None of that is a problem, as I just happily continue to use my Mac. It just makes me think people like Andrew who really want to move off the laptop onto an iPad have a while to wait yet.
    muthuk_vanalingamelijahg
  • Reply 56 of 77
    19831983 Posts: 1,201member
    For years, Apple has been hammered by requests to open up the file system/support external storage, to improve multitasking, and to add support for a mouse“

    Yes they have, but I still don’t see them doing that in the near term to protect sales of the Mac. That’s what’s been hampering development of the iPad all along...Apple’s refusal to ‘Mac-ify’ it if you like. With the sale of Macs and PCs in general on the decline, I hope they finally get the courage to let the iPad reach its full potential, and soon! I reckon iPad sales will start to rocket once they do, with the added bonus of not having to depend on stalwart Intel anymore.
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 57 of 77
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,457member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Who said that it had to replace your MacBook Pro?

    Seems to be an assumption festering around here that because it's as fast as a laptop then Apple has to start sticking all sorts of crap into it so that it becomes a laptop.

    Not entirely sure that's the endgame here.

    I suspect the reason behind this is the same reason that every problem with Apple boils down to: folk wanting to tell Apple what they want to pay for whatever tech they want.

    In this case, folk want a machine that is a laptop and a tablet, so they don't have to buy both.

    Fair enough, but if that form factor is such a big wow, then how come none of these hybrids seem to be outselling the iPad?

    Just a thought …

    I agree.  Horses for courses.  If a compromised device that is a true hybrid was the answer Microsoft would rule by now.  
  • Reply 58 of 77
    melgross said: Whatever it may be under the hood, the name is AutoCad360. It’s a full CAD app. What they announced was the Desktop AutoCad engine would be coming. Exactly what that means is hard to say in terms of a difference in the feature set. They’ve been adding more features every few weeks, or so. When the first iPad Pro 12.9” came out they upped the features and performance.
    Oh, you mean A360. That's the official name of the app. That's just a companion app like Fusion360 for iOS. You can view desktop AutoCAD files and models and do markup, but you can't create the models or plans/elevations in iOS. What they announced at the iPad Pro event was full AutoCAD for iOS, meaning that you can actually create 2D plans and elevations and 3D models within iOS. 
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 59 of 77
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,982member
    AppleZulu said:
    Oh, good grief. How many times does Apple have to say that they have no interest in making a hybrid tablet/laptop for people to believe them?

    If you want a powerful tablet that is still intended to be a tablet, buy an iPad Pro. If you want a great laptop, buy a MacBook. If you want a device that has all sorts of stuff shoehorned into it so that it’s all things to all people, buy a Surface or third-party windows box. 

    The folks at Apple have looked at the Surface, raised an eyebrow and clearly said, “why would we want to do that?” It’s a good question, because those things end up being jacks-of-all-trades-but-masters-of-none. That isn’t what Apple does. 
    Never believe anything Apple says. It’s possible they even mean it when they say it. But later, as often as not, they do it anyway.

    i remember when Jobs was adamantly against video on the iPod Touch, because who would Win 10 to watch video on such a small screen? But 6 months later, and bingo!

    Apple talks about gorilla arm for notebooks and iMacs, they seem to forget that they are forcing us to us our gorilla arm’s on an iPad with keyboard. And they’ve been selling a keyboard for them since day one. I still have my 30 pin plug Apple keyboard for the first iPad from 2010! So if gorilla arm is a serious enough problem to prevent Touch on another Mac, why force it for the iPad, particularly the 12.9”? That is very inconsistent, and quite frankly, makes no sense.

    any general purpose computer, which is pretty much all personal computers, are jack of all trades. That’s the whole point.
    elijahg
  • Reply 60 of 77
    ireland said:
    DAalseth said:
    I've moved about 3/4 of my work to my iPP. I'm very pleased at the gains in ability and I can see the day when I will use my last Mac. It might even be my two year old iMac. But I'm not there today.

    You mentioned several times about adding mouse support. No, just no. I direct you to this article:
    https://techpinions.com/the-pencil-is-mightier-than-the-mouse/53995
    In it the author argues that a mouse is just a precision pointing device and the Apple Pencil 2 with the added features and gestures IS the mouse for the iPad. I already use my AP on my year old iPP as my mouse more and more of the time. This is only going to get better. But, and I say this as someone who a year ago thought that the iPad DID need a mouse, the LAST thing we need on an iPad is a pointing device from the last century. It's time to move on.
    I disagree because when used with a keyboard, using a mouse is less tiring than using a pencil on a near-vertical surface. Even having mouse support purely for text editing alone with make writing and coding much easier on an iPad. All we’d need is the cursor to appear when you connect and use the trackpad in its keyboard case. They could even time the cursor to disappear after a duration and go away when the keyboard is disconnected. The Pencil is for drawing, sketching, painting, note taking and editing photos and other similar uses. It’s not meant for editing a complex multi-layer linear timeline, and at that angle. A mouse cursor is way more productive for such use, and I don’t see that changing at this point. iOS needs mouse cursor and trackpad support for those scenarios when people need them. And Apple will eventually add it. That’s my prediction. That and external hard drive support and the iPad becomes more capable. And it’d want to be and the prices Apple is charging.
    I agree.   I hate to admit it, but the Surface idea, albeit imperfect execution, seems to more closely meet the true replacement option. There is no technical reason that an IPad can’t support a mouse. Just like Apple limiting what the USB camera adapter can do (can’t import a PDF file for example while IOS supprts PDFs) so too Apple restricts certain things for marketing reasons to force choices and perhaps buy redundant devices. 

    My my dream “pro” device would be:

    dual monitor - extended desktop (not just mirror) support

    ability to connect to external physical storage needed for video scratch disk, offloading files and more without having the cloud as the only real (far slower) option

    end ripping us off by not having a storage expansion slot for high performance external memory cards.  

    mouse support for when I want it

    true multi-tasking.  

    True thunderbolt, not just USB-C


    Aside: Steve’s idea that we moved to cars after being less of an agrarian society today has limits.  Car sales are dropping dramatically.  People buy trucks, SUV’s and crossovers - even though they commute to work with them.  The #1 sold vehicle in the world for decades is the F150. Having the utility you need, in one device, has good appeal.  Crossovers have a car-like ride, better utility, and similar MPG these days as cars of the past.  I can tow a 2,800 pound trailer with my Subaru, climb a mountain in the snow, drive it to work if I’m not riding the bus, and still get 30 MPG. 

    Thus, if they won’t do it with an iPad Pro, perhaps finally having a touch screen on a MacBook Pro that accepts Pencil and can pivot to different orientations is a “crossover” that the public would enjoy. 

    elijahg
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