I gotta figure something like this would be simple to implement. From the top:
1: Thunderbolt logo with version. Remove if not applicable. Version number assumes Thunderbolt 4 will continue to use the USB-C connector.
2. USB logo with version number. Remove if not applicable.
3. Power rating.
4. A for Active, P for Passive. Remove for USB-only implementations.
How easy is that? Where do we send this to get it implemented?
This is a good start. I would suggest removing the "3" for thunderbolt since only thunderbolt 3's have a USB C connector, so until thunderbolt 4 is here, its redundant. And replace the "3" with 20, 40, etc representing the max speed for the thunderbolt 3 connection. Yes, there are different max speeds for thunderbolt 3 cables and when thunderbolt 4 arrives, it will have an increased speed as well. (I have several thunderbolt 3 cables, each with different max speeds and labeled the same!). I would also get rid of the active/passive since that is redundant and replace it with DP (displayport and version number). These cables have the following 4 capabilities: 1) Thunderbolt 3 and speed (20, 40) 2) USB tyoe: 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 each with different speeds (.5, 5, 10 Gpbs) 3) power delivery (60, 100W) and 4) Displayport. So you need a labeling for each one.
Aren't ALL cables with USB-C connectors suitable for Displayport?
Is Displayport even a common use for a cable with USB-C connections, or is it kind of an edge case? I was shopping for monitors a couple weeks ago, and everything I found used either DP, Mini-DP, or HDMI for input. I don't recall seeing any at all with a USB-C connector, with the obvious exception of LG's two Thunderbolt 3 monitors (and those don't use the DisplayPort signal anyway, do they?).
Okay.
A USB 3.1 type C cable has "alternate modes" like HDMI and DisplayPort. This allows for those USB-C to HDMI or DisplayPort cabling without some kind of active converter in the cable itself.
Simplified: the LG 4K is a USB 3.1 type C display. It carries data to and from the USB ports on the display, with the cable carrying a DisplayPort signal. The LG 5K uses a pair of DisplayPort signals to generate the 5K display and the remaining bandwidth to communicate with the USB-C ports onboard. If you connect to it with a USB 3.1 type C cable, you'll have a 4K display.
At present, I have a Thunderbolt 3 cable to a dock which provides me Ethernet and power to my MacBook Pro, and then a USB-C to DisplayPort cable from the pass-through Thunderbolt 3 cable on the dock to my Acer 4K display. I have a USB 3.1 type C to DisplayPort second cable (presently disconnected) for my upper monitor when things get heavy.
I'm pretty sure USB-C with DisplayPort and Power will become the standard on monitors. Then the monitor can by default act as a USB hub and power source. For the average person, that means they only need to connect a single cable and leave the computer power adapter in a travel bag. This arrangement of course works with a Thunderbolt cable if you mind your cabling, but since so many new computers come with at least two of these ports (TB and/or USB-C) most people will have the ability to choose how to connect.
Using USB-C (USB 3.1 GEN 2) cable over Thunderbolt to a USB-C monitor bypasses the TB-3 cable length/type limitations.
True, to a certain extent. But unless you’re using a 1 meter USB C 3.1 gen 2 cable, you’re limited to 5Gbs, not 10. Going to an even longer cable can result in no more than 3Gbs. A longer TB3 cable will still be 20Gbs.
There MUST be a solution to this cable length issue. I'm trying to figure out how to set up a little edit suite, and having to have all the devices within three feet of each other is becoming a major pain the poop part.
Six-foot active 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 cable to a dock (cable recommendation in the article, dock recommendations elsewhere), then the dock to the peripherals.
More like six-foot active cable to a dock followed by another six-foot active cable to another dock to get another six-feet...
But yeah, I know what you're saying, and that is the plan. Seriously though, it's still a challenge. Some things either won't fit or don't belong within a three foot radius around the dock. I'm sure I'll figure it out and acceptable compromises will be found, it's just a new and annoying constraint on workspace setup that I'm not used to.
Hey, you seem to know your way around what's allowed by the spec. Do you know if repeaters are a thing? I was only joking about the second dock, but would that actually work?
Repeaters are not allowed. There are some rumblings that Corning is working on an optical TB3 cable to skirt this length thing -- and optical TB2 cables work with the TB3 to TB2 adapters -- but we haven't heard any more than just rumblings.
But yeah, the second dock would actually work. It isn't a repeater, per se.
There are cables such as this one available. They aren’t too expensive either. They have a 1 meter length too, if you want a short cable.
Interesting claims on that cable. Given that this listing from markertek predates the active Thunderbolt 3 chipset that is capable of passing USB 3.1 type C, I'm skeptical. I'll see if they can send us a sample for testing.
But yeah, 2M TB3 cables are available now. We've linked to the one we currently like in the post itself.
I’ve been buying pro gear from them for quite a number of years. It’s highly unlikely they would sell a product to pros that doesn’t work. They have a very good reputation.
I know who they are, and their reputation, and they aren't immune from labeling problems. The cable vendors all assumed for the longest time that an active TB3 cable would work for USB 3.1 type C as well until the complaints overwhelmed them -- not the sellers' fault for the most part.
I'm sure it works fine for Thunderbolt 3. I'm less certain about USB 3.1 type C.
I gotta figure something like this would be simple to implement. From the top:
1: Thunderbolt logo with version. Remove if not applicable. Version number assumes Thunderbolt 4 will continue to use the USB-C connector.
2. USB logo with version number. Remove if not applicable.
3. Power rating.
4. A for Active, P for Passive. Remove for USB-only implementations.
How easy is that? Where do we send this to get it implemented?
This is a good start. I would suggest removing the "3" for thunderbolt since only thunderbolt 3's have a USB C connector, so until thunderbolt 4 is here, its redundant. And replace the "3" with 20, 40, etc representing the max speed for the thunderbolt 3 connection. Yes, there are different max speeds for thunderbolt 3 cables and when thunderbolt 4 arrives, it will have an increased speed as well. (I have several thunderbolt 3 cables, each with different max speeds and labeled the same!). I would also get rid of the active/passive since that is redundant and replace it with DP (displayport and version number). These cables have the following 4 capabilities: 1) Thunderbolt 3 and speed (20, 40) 2) USB tyoe: 2.0, 3.0 and 3.1 each with different speeds (.5, 5, 10 Gpbs) 3) power delivery (60, 100W) and 4) Displayport. So you need a labeling for each one.
Aren't ALL cables with USB-C connectors suitable for Displayport?
Is Displayport even a common use for a cable with USB-C connections, or is it kind of an edge case? I was shopping for monitors a couple weeks ago, and everything I found used either DP, Mini-DP, or HDMI for input. I don't recall seeing any at all with a USB-C connector, with the obvious exception of LG's two Thunderbolt 3 monitors (and those don't use the DisplayPort signal anyway, do they?).
Okay.
A USB 3.1 type C cable has "alternate modes" like HDMI and DisplayPort. This allows for those USB-C to HDMI or DisplayPort cabling without some kind of active converter in the cable itself.
Simplified: the LG 4K is a USB 3.1 type C display. It carries data to and from the USB ports on the display, with the cable carrying a DisplayPort signal. The LG 5K uses a pair of DisplayPort signals to generate the 5K display and the remaining bandwidth to communicate with the USB-C ports onboard. If you connect to it with a USB 3.1 type C cable, you'll have a 4K display.
At present, I have a Thunderbolt 3 cable to a dock which provides me Ethernet and power to my MacBook Pro, and then a USB-C to DisplayPort cable from the pass-through Thunderbolt 3 cable on the dock to my Acer 4K display. I have a USB 3.1 type C to DisplayPort second cable (presently disconnected) for my upper monitor when things get heavy.
I'm pretty sure USB-C with DisplayPort and Power will become the standard on monitors. Then the monitor can by default act as a USB hub and power source. For the average person, that means they only need to connect a single cable and leave the computer power adapter in a travel bag. This arrangement of course works with a Thunderbolt cable if you mind your cabling, but since so many new computers come with at least two of these ports (TB and/or USB-C) most people will have the ability to choose how to connect.
Using USB-C (USB 3.1 GEN 2) cable over Thunderbolt to a USB-C monitor bypasses the TB-3 cable length/type limitations.
True, to a certain extent. But unless you’re using a 1 meter USB C 3.1 gen 2 cable, you’re limited to 5Gbs, not 10. Going to an even longer cable can result in no more than 3Gbs. A longer TB3 cable will still be 20Gbs.
There MUST be a solution to this cable length issue. I'm trying to figure out how to set up a little edit suite, and having to have all the devices within three feet of each other is becoming a major pain the poop part.
Six-foot active 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 cable to a dock (cable recommendation in the article, dock recommendations elsewhere), then the dock to the peripherals.
More like six-foot active cable to a dock followed by another six-foot active cable to another dock to get another six-feet...
But yeah, I know what you're saying, and that is the plan. Seriously though, it's still a challenge. Some things either won't fit or don't belong within a three foot radius around the dock. I'm sure I'll figure it out and acceptable compromises will be found, it's just a new and annoying constraint on workspace setup that I'm not used to.
Hey, you seem to know your way around what's allowed by the spec. Do you know if repeaters are a thing? I was only joking about the second dock, but would that actually work?
Repeaters are not allowed. There are some rumblings that Corning is working on an optical TB3 cable to skirt this length thing -- and optical TB2 cables work with the TB3 to TB2 adapters -- but we haven't heard any more than just rumblings.
But yeah, the second dock would actually work. It isn't a repeater, per se.
There are cables such as this one available. They aren’t too expensive either. They have a 1 meter length too, if you want a short cable.
Thanks Mel. I think that's what Mike means by "Six-foot active 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 cable." Like the Atikio (sp?) he mentioned in his article. The Atikio has the advantage of being less expensive at around fifty-five bucks, but absent that, this one looks good.
EDIT: I missed the part where this one claims USB capability. I'd buy one to test, but since Mike already is, I'll let him take care of it!
I thought I had a pretty good handle on all the various incarnations of cables with USB-C connectors, but today a question came up that I couldn't answer.
Belkin makes a 6-foot active Thunderbolt 3 cable that it says will support USB 2.0, Thunderbolt 3 at 40, but NOT USB 3.0. (https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CD085/)
If this cable is used to connect a MacBook Pro Touch Bar to a Thunderbolt 3 dock, will the dock somehow "extract" USB 3 from the Thunderbolt stream, or will it mean the USB ports on the dock won't work?
I thought I had a pretty good handle on all the various incarnations of cables with USB-C connectors, but today a question came up that I couldn't answer.
Belkin makes a 6-foot active Thunderbolt 3 cable that it says will support USB 2.0, Thunderbolt 3 at 40, but NOT USB 3.0. (https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CD085/)
If this cable is used to connect a MacBook Pro Touch Bar to a Thunderbolt 3 dock, will the dock somehow "extract" USB 3 from the Thunderbolt stream, or will it mean the USB ports on the dock won't work?
The cable is opening up a PCI-E channel from the host computer to the USB controller on the dock. The USB connectivity is handled on the dock, and passed back to the computer through the PCI-E channel.
This is similar to how an eGPU works. The MacBook Pro isn't sending video information in alt-mode down the TB3 cable. PCI-E channels are opened up to the video card.
I thought I had a pretty good handle on all the various incarnations of cables with USB-C connectors, but today a question came up that I couldn't answer.
Belkin makes a 6-foot active Thunderbolt 3 cable that it says will support USB 2.0, Thunderbolt 3 at 40, but NOT USB 3.0. (https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CD085/)
If this cable is used to connect a MacBook Pro Touch Bar to a Thunderbolt 3 dock, will the dock somehow "extract" USB 3 from the Thunderbolt stream, or will it mean the USB ports on the dock won't work?
The cable is opening up a PCI-E channel from the host computer to the USB controller on the dock. The USB connectivity is handled on the dock, and passed back to the computer through the PCI-E channel.
This is similar to how an eGPU works. The MacBook Pro isn't sending video information in alt-mode down the TB3 cable. PCI-E channels are opened up to the video card.
Belkin makes a 6-foot active Thunderbolt 3 cable that it says will support USB 2.0, Thunderbolt 3 at 40, but NOT USB 3.0. (https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CD085/)
Apple says it DOES support USB 3.1. Belkin says it doesn't. Since the product number is identical, one of them must be wrong.
It's bad enough that variability in capabilities makes it difficult for consumers to choose the right cable. Vendors providing conflicting information about a specific cable makes it even goofier. If Apple is right, I can use that cable to connect a USB-C drive directly to the computer without a dock. If Belkin is right, I can't.
What would be nice is to have a proper USB-C port on all iPads and iPhones which support the faster data transfer speeds so one does not have to wait for ages to sync their iPhone or iPad with the slow lightning sync speeds from the current lightning port. If the current A12 chipset is being compared to being close to MacBook Pro performance specs one would figure that it could at least provide one port with decent data transfer speeds for syncing when one is forking out over $1K for an ipad or iPhone.
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I'm sure it works fine for Thunderbolt 3. I'm less certain about USB 3.1 type C.
EDIT: I missed the part where this one claims USB capability. I'd buy one to test, but since Mike already is, I'll let him take care of it!
Belkin makes a 6-foot active Thunderbolt 3 cable that it says will support USB 2.0, Thunderbolt 3 at 40, but NOT USB 3.0. (https://www.belkin.com/us/p/P-F2CD085/)
If this cable is used to connect a MacBook Pro Touch Bar to a Thunderbolt 3 dock, will the dock somehow "extract" USB 3 from the Thunderbolt stream, or will it mean the USB ports on the dock won't work?
This is similar to how an eGPU works. The MacBook Pro isn't sending video information in alt-mode down the TB3 cable. PCI-E channels are opened up to the video card.
Apple says it DOES support USB 3.1. Belkin says it doesn't. Since the product number is identical, one of them must be wrong.
It's bad enough that variability in capabilities makes it difficult for consumers to choose the right cable. Vendors providing conflicting information about a specific cable makes it even goofier. If Apple is right, I can use that cable to connect a USB-C drive directly to the computer without a dock. If Belkin is right, I can't.