Seriously, Apple's flagship Macs are now less expensive than ever before

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 65
    entropys said:
    It does not matter how expensive macs were in the past. Heck I paid over USD$4000 for a PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” back in the day.  
    What matters today is the price of a Mac compared with comparable windows machines.
    It's difficult for to compare Macs with comparable Windows machines - they often don't exist.

    For example... The iMac has a 5K display that simply can't be had on any PC.
    Another Example...  The MacBook Pro use 16x10 screens, with four Thunderbolt 3 ports, something not found in the PC world.


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 65
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 850unconfirmed, member
    trackeroz said:
    Seriously... I cannot believe you are comparing the present prices with those of over three decades ago. How about you compare against normalised computing prices, since the cost of computing has continued to fall (in real terms) almost continuously in that time. The gouging in price point by Apple has seen a very recent resurgence. Apple needs to stop 'Gordon Geckoiing' it!
    Right. Apple should price their technology lower thanthe cappy knockoffs with SUPERIOR hardware/software and lose profit on every unit sold.

    Ferrari needs to stop 'Gordon Geckoiing' it!

    entropys said:
    It does not matter how expensive macs were in the past. Heck I paid over USD$4000 for a PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” back in the day.  
    What matters today is the price of a Mac compared with comparable windows machines.

    And I'm sure I can buy a few Kias for the price of a Lamborghini.

    Was that your point?
    StrangeDaysradarthekatelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 65
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,699member
    entropys said:
    It does not matter how expensive macs were in the past. Heck I paid over USD$4000 for a PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” back in the day.  
    What matters today is the price of a Mac compared with comparable windows machines.
    It's difficult for to compare Macs with comparable Windows machines - they often don't exist.

    For example... The iMac has a 5K display that simply can't be had on any PC.
    Another Example...  The MacBook Pro use 16x10 screens, with four Thunderbolt 3 ports, something not found in the PC world.


    Yes, agree it is difficult, if not impossible, to get a decent AIO in windows world. You would have to buy a seperate monitor and Tower, with resultant loss in aesthetics. Let’s hope when Apple eventually gets around to updating the now quite geriatric iMac they don’t stuff it up with poor repairability, only one type of port and an astronomic price.

    But I would have to say an HP spectre pro X360 gives the MBA a very serious touch up, for example. The gap between Mac and windows laptops is these days very small, particularly once you start BTO any Mac with additional ram and storage above base. This is article compares with how much better macs were twenty to ten years ago, when they were worth a lot extra. The gap has been allowed to narrow.

    edited December 2018
  • Reply 24 of 65
    I think that part of perception issue is that Apple in a way feels stagnated on innovation. It's not that at the core of the products being produced there isn't innovation, but that Apple seems to be playing catch up as opposed to leading the way as it did in the past. I think for those who have experienced what Apple brings to the table, the price has always been justified but incremental changes hurt the consumers bottom line. For better or for worse, consumers fall in love with the look of the product (Apple knows this) and not the value of what what you are getting (more for less). Apple's advantage over competitors though is that the look is accompanied with hardware that really does "just work".
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 65
    LatkoLatko Posts: 382member
    What does an affordability test mean when it doesn’t reckon 4 year old gear being sold for it’s original price ?
    edited December 2018 radarthekat
  • Reply 26 of 65
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,127member
    Come off it. A Mac Mini in 2005 started at $499, allowing for inflation that would now be $645, today it is $799

    You can see price increase across all of their product lines over the last couple of years. 

    Higher margins to offset slowing sales. What pisses me off is that the only slow down on the Mac is due to tardy refreshes and expensive features, such as the Touch Bar, that almost no one wants.

    And yes, I do think that the current price gouging by Tim and his team is a mistake.

    I joined the Apple family with the original Mac Mini, at the entry level price point it was around 30% more than the equivalent PC at the time, but the difference was justifiable for me and at a point where I could afford to dip my toe into the Apple world. Many years later and I’ve converted most of my family and friends.

    But Apple’s new pricing strategy is making it really hard to justify to people, or indeed myself.

    The iPhone XS at £999 doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £300 Pocofone.

    The £1200 MacBook Air doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £700 Dell XPS.

    I always found that Apple was around 30% more than the nearest true competitor, not the build your own stuff. But now they are 50-60% more and it’s hard to justify that.

    At 30% more you can talk about the build materials, the OS, the overall fit and finish etc.

    But at twice the price.........

    For the first time in around 13 years I find it difficult to recommend Apple products to my friends and family. I know that many people will assume I am some kind of troll, but I’m really not. I love Apple.

    But at the same time that their competition is catching up in terms of hardware quality, whilst also lowering their prices Apple is increasing their price whilst standing still.

    The new MacBook Air is a lovely machine, I’ve had a good play with it at the Apple store, but it’s just a long overdue evolution of the original MacBook Air and other laptop manufacturers, such as Dell with their XPS were already there.

    I’ll hold out for a bit, my trusty MacBook Pro from 2014 should give me a bit more time. But when I come to upgrade it might well not be to a Mac, and that’s just sad.
    kitatitlogic2.6
  • Reply 27 of 65
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,568administrator
    saarek said:
    Come off it. A Mac Mini in 2005 started at $499, allowing for inflation that would now be $645, today it is $799

    You can see price increase across all of their product lines over the last couple of years. 

    Higher margins to offset slowing sales. What pisses me off is that the only slow down on the Mac is due to tardy refreshes and expensive features, such as the Touch Bar, that almost no one wants.

    And yes, I do think that the current price gouging by Tim and his team is a mistake.

    I joined the Apple family with the original Mac Mini, at the entry level price point it was around 30% more than the equivalent PC at the time, but the difference was justifiable for me and at a point where I could afford to dip my toe into the Apple world. Many years later and I’ve converted most of my family and friends.

    But Apple’s new pricing strategy is making it really hard to justify to people, or indeed myself.

    The iPhone XS at £999 doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £300 Pocofone.

    The £1200 MacBook Air doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £700 Dell XPS.

    I always found that Apple was around 30% more than the nearest true competitor, not the build your own stuff. But now they are 50-60% more and it’s hard to justify that.

    At 30% more you can talk about the build materials, the OS, the overall fit and finish etc.

    But at twice the price.........

    For the first time in around 13 years I find it difficult to recommend Apple products to my friends and family. I know that many people will assume I am some kind of troll, but I’m really not. I love Apple.

    But at the same time that their competition is catching up in terms of hardware quality, whilst also lowering their prices Apple is increasing their price whilst standing still.

    The new MacBook Air is a lovely machine, I’ve had a good play with it at the Apple store, but it’s just a long overdue evolution of the original MacBook Air and other laptop manufacturers, such as Dell with their XPS were already there.

    I’ll hold out for a bit, my trusty MacBook Pro from 2014 should give me a bit more time. But when I come to upgrade it might well not be to a Mac, and that’s just sad.
    Read the editorial again. This isn't about Windows, that is an entirely separate discussion. These are literally Apple's pricing, the retail launch prices all here under all the relevant CEOs, even Jobs. You don't have to like them, but facts are facts. Furthermore, the margins have been the same for at least the last 12 years.

    And, the low-end mini today is positioned at a higher market segment than the G4 mini was, or the $499 core solo one was. Saying otherwise is disingenuous. We've said before that Apple would benefit from a switcher model, but the "low" end mini now is not aimed at the same market segment that it used to be.
    edited December 2018 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 65
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,127member
    saarek said:
    Come off it. A Mac Mini in 2005 started at $499, allowing for inflation that would now be $645, today it is $799

    You can see price increase across all of their product lines over the last couple of years. 

    Higher margins to offset slowing sales. What pisses me off is that the only slow down on the Mac is due to tardy refreshes and expensive features, such as the Touch Bar, that almost no one wants.

    And yes, I do think that the current price gouging by Tim and his team is a mistake.

    I joined the Apple family with the original Mac Mini, at the entry level price point it was around 30% more than the equivalent PC at the time, but the difference was justifiable for me and at a point where I could afford to dip my toe into the Apple world. Many years later and I’ve converted most of my family and friends.

    But Apple’s new pricing strategy is making it really hard to justify to people, or indeed myself.

    The iPhone XS at £999 doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £300 Pocofone.

    The £1200 MacBook Air doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £700 Dell XPS.

    I always found that Apple was around 30% more than the nearest true competitor, not the build your own stuff. But now they are 50-60% more and it’s hard to justify that.

    At 30% more you can talk about the build materials, the OS, the overall fit and finish etc.

    But at twice the price.........

    For the first time in around 13 years I find it difficult to recommend Apple products to my friends and family. I know that many people will assume I am some kind of troll, but I’m really not. I love Apple.

    But at the same time that their competition is catching up in terms of hardware quality, whilst also lowering their prices Apple is increasing their price whilst standing still.

    The new MacBook Air is a lovely machine, I’ve had a good play with it at the Apple store, but it’s just a long overdue evolution of the original MacBook Air and other laptop manufacturers, such as Dell with their XPS were already there.

    I’ll hold out for a bit, my trusty MacBook Pro from 2014 should give me a bit more time. But when I come to upgrade it might well not be to a Mac, and that’s just sad.
    Read the editorial again. This isn't about Windows, that is an entirely separate discussion. These are literally Apple's pricing, the retail launch prices all here under all the relevant CEOs, even Jobs. You don't have to like them, but facts are facts. Furthermore, the margins have been the same for at least the last 12 years.

    And, the low-end mini today is positioned at a higher market segment than the G4 mini was, or the $499 core solo one was. Saying otherwise is disingenuous. We've said before that Apple would benefit from a switcher model, but the "low" end mini now is not aimed at the same market segment that it used to be.
    But you also can’t deny that Apple have been ramping up prices across the board for the last couple of years either.

    With pretty much every refresh comes an increased price, from the Apple Pencil to the MacBook Air.

    Of course the 2018 model is better than the previous one, how could it not be.

    The Mac Mini hasn’t actually seen a proper upgrade since 2012 as the 2014 model was slower than the 2012 one. For a 6 year gap you’d expect an upgrade like the one we have now.

    That’s not to say that the 2018 Mac Mini is a bad machine, it’s not. But like all of Apples recent Mac’s, apart from the iMac Pro, they have moved from being around 30% more to 50% more for comparable hardware from the likes of Dell.

    If Apple wants to sell less for more, well that’s their choice. But I think it’s going to bite them in the arse.

    I’ve done a rough calculation and I think I could directly link myself to around £250,000 worth of Apple hardware sales since I got that first Mac Mini. That’s a lot of phones, computers and accessories.

    But now I’m starting to recommend alternatives, and if I’m doing it you can better others are too.

    For me it’s sad that Apple is deliberately leaving behind the higher end of the consumer space.


    logic2.6
  • Reply 29 of 65
    ...hmmm how does relative earning power (or income disparity) compare...?

    I do find the lack of flexibiity in options and some spec choices are raising questions - the often criticised touch bar on the 15" mbp, an eGPU to balance an i7 6 core mini, the whole T2 / onboard storage thing at perhaps upwards of 500% of other less capable if possibly adequate for many 'standard' options, and the list goes on... When I have loaded up a Dell to achieve similar mac specs, the macs have been equal or cheaper, and yet how many would choose a high quality non-retina 110dpi option if offered such, or TB3 or ultrafast encrypted T2 storage...?  I suspect I'd be very happy with a USB3 version of Apple's Thunderbolt display for some of my macs...
  • Reply 30 of 65
    nhtnht Posts: 4,437member
    saarek said:
    saarek said:
    Come off it. A Mac Mini in 2005 started at $499, allowing for inflation that would now be $645, today it is $799

    You can see price increase across all of their product lines over the last couple of years. 

    Higher margins to offset slowing sales. What pisses me off is that the only slow down on the Mac is due to tardy refreshes and expensive features, such as the Touch Bar, that almost no one wants.

    And yes, I do think that the current price gouging by Tim and his team is a mistake.

    I joined the Apple family with the original Mac Mini, at the entry level price point it was around 30% more than the equivalent PC at the time, but the difference was justifiable for me and at a point where I could afford to dip my toe into the Apple world. Many years later and I’ve converted most of my family and friends.

    But Apple’s new pricing strategy is making it really hard to justify to people, or indeed myself.

    The iPhone XS at £999 doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £300 Pocofone.

    The £1200 MacBook Air doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £700 Dell XPS.

    I always found that Apple was around 30% more than the nearest true competitor, not the build your own stuff. But now they are 50-60% more and it’s hard to justify that.

    At 30% more you can talk about the build materials, the OS, the overall fit and finish etc.

    But at twice the price.........

    For the first time in around 13 years I find it difficult to recommend Apple products to my friends and family. I know that many people will assume I am some kind of troll, but I’m really not. I love Apple.

    But at the same time that their competition is catching up in terms of hardware quality, whilst also lowering their prices Apple is increasing their price whilst standing still.

    The new MacBook Air is a lovely machine, I’ve had a good play with it at the Apple store, but it’s just a long overdue evolution of the original MacBook Air and other laptop manufacturers, such as Dell with their XPS were already there.

    I’ll hold out for a bit, my trusty MacBook Pro from 2014 should give me a bit more time. But when I come to upgrade it might well not be to a Mac, and that’s just sad.
    Read the editorial again. This isn't about Windows, that is an entirely separate discussion. These are literally Apple's pricing, the retail launch prices all here under all the relevant CEOs, even Jobs. You don't have to like them, but facts are facts. Furthermore, the margins have been the same for at least the last 12 years.

    And, the low-end mini today is positioned at a higher market segment than the G4 mini was, or the $499 core solo one was. Saying otherwise is disingenuous. We've said before that Apple would benefit from a switcher model, but the "low" end mini now is not aimed at the same market segment that it used to be.
    But you also can’t deny that Apple have been ramping up prices across the board for the last couple of years either.

    With pretty much every refresh comes an increased price, from the Apple Pencil to the MacBook Air.

    Of course the 2018 model is better than the previous one, how could it not be.

    The Mac Mini hasn’t actually seen a proper upgrade since 2012 as the 2014 model was slower than the 2012 one. For a 6 year gap you’d expect an upgrade like the one we have now.

    That’s not to say that the 2018 Mac Mini is a bad machine, it’s not. But like all of Apples recent Mac’s, apart from the iMac Pro, they have moved from being around 30% more to 50% more for comparable hardware from the likes of Dell.

    If Apple wants to sell less for more, well that’s their choice. But I think it’s going to bite them in the arse.

    I’ve done a rough calculation and I think I could directly link myself to around £250,000 worth of Apple hardware sales since I got that first Mac Mini. That’s a lot of phones, computers and accessories.

    But now I’m starting to recommend alternatives, and if I’m doing it you can better others are too.

    For me it’s sad that Apple is deliberately leaving behind the higher end of the consumer space.
    The $799 mini outperforms the mid 2017 15" MBP with Core i7 in single core performance and outperforms the mid-2017 iMac 27" Core i5 in multicore.

    The $1000 mini Core i7 outperforms every other Mac except the 2017 Core i7-7700K iMac single core and in multi-core performance out performs every other Mac besides the 2017 iMac Pros and the 12 core Mac Pro.

    The 2018 Mac mini is a powerhouse and hugely better price vs CPU performance ratio than EVERY OTHER MAC.

    But super-geniuses like you think that because they bought a Core Solo mini for $499 that obviously Apple must be "selling less for more".  

    Go buy yourself a Dell m'kay?
    StrangeDaysradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 65
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,568administrator
    saarek said:
    saarek said:
    Come off it. A Mac Mini in 2005 started at $499, allowing for inflation that would now be $645, today it is $799

    You can see price increase across all of their product lines over the last couple of years. 

    Higher margins to offset slowing sales. What pisses me off is that the only slow down on the Mac is due to tardy refreshes and expensive features, such as the Touch Bar, that almost no one wants.

    And yes, I do think that the current price gouging by Tim and his team is a mistake.

    I joined the Apple family with the original Mac Mini, at the entry level price point it was around 30% more than the equivalent PC at the time, but the difference was justifiable for me and at a point where I could afford to dip my toe into the Apple world. Many years later and I’ve converted most of my family and friends.

    But Apple’s new pricing strategy is making it really hard to justify to people, or indeed myself.

    The iPhone XS at £999 doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £300 Pocofone.

    The £1200 MacBook Air doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £700 Dell XPS.

    I always found that Apple was around 30% more than the nearest true competitor, not the build your own stuff. But now they are 50-60% more and it’s hard to justify that.

    At 30% more you can talk about the build materials, the OS, the overall fit and finish etc.

    But at twice the price.........

    For the first time in around 13 years I find it difficult to recommend Apple products to my friends and family. I know that many people will assume I am some kind of troll, but I’m really not. I love Apple.

    But at the same time that their competition is catching up in terms of hardware quality, whilst also lowering their prices Apple is increasing their price whilst standing still.

    The new MacBook Air is a lovely machine, I’ve had a good play with it at the Apple store, but it’s just a long overdue evolution of the original MacBook Air and other laptop manufacturers, such as Dell with their XPS were already there.

    I’ll hold out for a bit, my trusty MacBook Pro from 2014 should give me a bit more time. But when I come to upgrade it might well not be to a Mac, and that’s just sad.
    Read the editorial again. This isn't about Windows, that is an entirely separate discussion. These are literally Apple's pricing, the retail launch prices all here under all the relevant CEOs, even Jobs. You don't have to like them, but facts are facts. Furthermore, the margins have been the same for at least the last 12 years.

    And, the low-end mini today is positioned at a higher market segment than the G4 mini was, or the $499 core solo one was. Saying otherwise is disingenuous. We've said before that Apple would benefit from a switcher model, but the "low" end mini now is not aimed at the same market segment that it used to be.
    But you also can’t deny that Apple have been ramping up prices across the board for the last couple of years either.

    With pretty much every refresh comes an increased price, from the Apple Pencil to the MacBook Air.

    Of course the 2018 model is better than the previous one, how could it not be.

    The Mac Mini hasn’t actually seen a proper upgrade since 2012 as the 2014 model was slower than the 2012 one. For a 6 year gap you’d expect an upgrade like the one we have now.

    That’s not to say that the 2018 Mac Mini is a bad machine, it’s not. But like all of Apples recent Mac’s, apart from the iMac Pro, they have moved from being around 30% more to 50% more for comparable hardware from the likes of Dell.

    If Apple wants to sell less for more, well that’s their choice. But I think it’s going to bite them in the arse.

    I’ve done a rough calculation and I think I could directly link myself to around £250,000 worth of Apple hardware sales since I got that first Mac Mini. That’s a lot of phones, computers and accessories.

    But now I’m starting to recommend alternatives, and if I’m doing it you can better others are too.

    For me it’s sad that Apple is deliberately leaving behind the higher end of the consumer space.


    I never denied that prices were rising. As evidenced by the second link in my response, we feel that there's a market that Apple has chosen to not service, and that market is that $499 mini market. I don't even know where you got that bit about the 2012, versus 2014, versus 2018 -- we've been over that ad infinitum, just not in this piece.

    I disagree that this mini as it stands now is the logical extension of the 2012 and 2014. A logical extension, shooting at the $499 - $599 price point has one Thunderbolt 3 port if any at all, some USB 3.1 type C and some USB-A. It's not just better because it's newer -- it's better because this mini is very clearly not aimed at the market the entry level 2012 was, or all of the 2014 was.

    Regarding the bolded part of your response: When will this happen? I've been hearing this bolded part here since Jobs came back 20 years ago, yet here we are. The iMac was too expensive, and USB was the devil. The iPod was too expensive. The G5 was too loud and too expensive. Intel? We're doomed. I have more, if you want.

    I get that you don't like the pricing. I'm just not certain why it's coming as a shock and somehow unique to Tim Cook to anybody that reads AI.
    edited December 2018 radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 65
    I remember working on a full color magazine cover in 1991 on a IIfx in Photoshop. Every edit took about 10 minutes to process. Wicked fast!!
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 65
    welshdog said:
    I bought a 128k Mac via the University of Texas Apple Student program. I think I paid $2100 including an Imagewriter. I actually wasn't taking enough hours at the time to qualify for the program (had a job at the local CBS station) so I got my roommate's girlfriend to buy it for me and then I paid her.

    Back in those days I worked with UT's Xerox Star. A couple of coworkers went to the '84 Olympics in L.A. and returned with a Mac. Its graphics superiority to the Star's was astonishing (not to mention its superior one-button mouse, the Finder and a few other innovations). Shortly thereafter I had a chance to win an original 128K Mac in a company contest, and made sure I did. Couldn't beat the price! How disappointing it was to find it running out of juice after 1½ pages of a MacWrite document, but I was hooked for life. There could only be one answer: move on to ever more-powerful units as they arrived.
    edited December 2018 StrangeDaysradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 65
    entropys said:
    It does not matter how expensive macs were in the past. Heck I paid over USD$4000 for a PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” back in the day.  
    What matters today is the price of a Mac compared with comparable windows machines.
    What mattered most to me "back in the day," and continues to matter most to me, is the return on investment I get. And while it is less true than it was in the days of, say, Windows 3.0 or 3.1 (when ironically Macs were pooh-poohed to a far greater extent than they are now), there is no question that I get more back from my Macs than I ever did, or could, with PCs. Considering just one small part of the picture—hardware price—is a mistake.
    The equation to think about is Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) = Initial Price + Cost of Additional Hardware and Software Needed To Make It Productive - Resale Price - Value of Things Produced. For me, with a Mac the resulting number is so negative any dispute is absurd. I'm talking about many thousands of dollars per year per machine. 
    Why buy one if it doesn't do that for you? This is not a religious icon, or a toy. It's a tool. A blameless, emotionless, feeling-less, even if possibly enjoyable tool.
    Quibbling over hundreds of dollars of difference in price of a tool with such potential is for people who won't get past thinking small. PCs are a tool too, but (for me, anyway) it's been a TCO wash at best with those. In that case a few hundreds of dollars are significant. That lends itself to small-mindedness. If you don't mind fiddling around with your machine the way PCs demand that you do, fine—but you should be aware of how much you pay for the privilege. It's an expensive indulgence.
    StrangeDayschiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 65
    entropys said:
    It does not matter how expensive macs were in the past. Heck I paid over USD$4000 for a PowerBook G3 “Wallstreet” back in the day.  
    What matters today is the price of a Mac compared with comparable windows machines.
    No it isn’t, that’s nuts. Windows commodity PCs aren’t premium Macs, and they have a higher TCO. You’re one of those PC guys who just won’t get it, a Mac isn’t a PC. Get a Dell if you want Dell prices.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 65
    cropr said:
    It is rather misleading to compare current Macs with old Macs. 
    Nuts. We have a thing called “inflation” here in the real world, so to compare prices we must adjust. Todays Mac’s are cheaper than yesteryear’s.

    That the specs changed doesn’t matter. It’s the relative cost per era that is relevant. 
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 65

    trackeroz said:
    Seriously... I cannot believe you are comparing the present prices with those of over three decades ago. How about you compare against normalised computing prices, since the cost of computing has continued to fall (in real terms) almost continuously in that time. The gouging in price point by Apple has seen a very recent resurgence. Apple needs to stop 'Gordon Geckoiing' it!
    Sorry that’s bullshit. It’s not gouging as there is a free marker of plenty of choice. And it’s not greedy as the prices adjusted for inflation are way, way less. And the TCO of Macs is cheaper than crappy PCs.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 65

    maltz said:
    Comparing Apple to itself kind of misses the point.  People are grumbling about the recent (last couple of years) widening of the gap vs the competition, not just the raw dollar amounts.  There is and always has been an "Apple premium", and for many people, it has been well worth it.  But it's getting quite a lot larger lately for no clear reason.
    Nope. You must adjust for inflation to get an idea of what the spending power got you. Today you get a whole lot more for a whole lot less, period.

    The mini is $150 more than it’s launch price after inflation, and for that they replaced the laptop components with desktop, and a high speed I/O. That’s well worth it. 

    And you’re nuts — the iPad dropped in price to $329, that’s mass market affordable. iPhone 7 is 450. You don’t have to get the top tier devices. You’re not entitled to them by birthright. 


    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 65
    Latko said:
    What does an affordability test mean when it doesn’t reckon 4 year old gear being sold for it’s original price ?
    Apple TCO is still lower. My primary desktop is a 2011 iMac. Let that sink in. An almost 8-year-old PC would run like crap.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 65

    saarek said:
    saarek said:
    Come off it. A Mac Mini in 2005 started at $499, allowing for inflation that would now be $645, today it is $799

    You can see price increase across all of their product lines over the last couple of years. 

    Higher margins to offset slowing sales. What pisses me off is that the only slow down on the Mac is due to tardy refreshes and expensive features, such as the Touch Bar, that almost no one wants.

    And yes, I do think that the current price gouging by Tim and his team is a mistake.

    I joined the Apple family with the original Mac Mini, at the entry level price point it was around 30% more than the equivalent PC at the time, but the difference was justifiable for me and at a point where I could afford to dip my toe into the Apple world. Many years later and I’ve converted most of my family and friends.

    But Apple’s new pricing strategy is making it really hard to justify to people, or indeed myself.

    The iPhone XS at £999 doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £300 Pocofone.

    The £1200 MacBook Air doesn’t look like such a good deal against the £700 Dell XPS.

    I always found that Apple was around 30% more than the nearest true competitor, not the build your own stuff. But now they are 50-60% more and it’s hard to justify that.

    At 30% more you can talk about the build materials, the OS, the overall fit and finish etc.

    But at twice the price.........

    For the first time in around 13 years I find it difficult to recommend Apple products to my friends and family. I know that many people will assume I am some kind of troll, but I’m really not. I love Apple.

    But at the same time that their competition is catching up in terms of hardware quality, whilst also lowering their prices Apple is increasing their price whilst standing still.

    The new MacBook Air is a lovely machine, I’ve had a good play with it at the Apple store, but it’s just a long overdue evolution of the original MacBook Air and other laptop manufacturers, such as Dell with their XPS were already there.

    I’ll hold out for a bit, my trusty MacBook Pro from 2014 should give me a bit more time. But when I come to upgrade it might well not be to a Mac, and that’s just sad.
    Read the editorial again. This isn't about Windows, that is an entirely separate discussion. These are literally Apple's pricing, the retail launch prices all here under all the relevant CEOs, even Jobs. You don't have to like them, but facts are facts. Furthermore, the margins have been the same for at least the last 12 years.

    And, the low-end mini today is positioned at a higher market segment than the G4 mini was, or the $499 core solo one was. Saying otherwise is disingenuous. We've said before that Apple would benefit from a switcher model, but the "low" end mini now is not aimed at the same market segment that it used to be.
    But you also can’t deny that Apple have been ramping up prices across the board for the last couple of years either.

    With pretty much every refresh comes an increased price, from the Apple Pencil to the MacBook Air.

    Of course the 2018 model is better than the previous one, how could it not be.

    The Mac Mini hasn’t actually seen a proper upgrade since 2012 as the 2014 model was slower than the 2012 one. For a 6 year gap you’d expect an upgrade like the one we have now.

    That’s not to say that the 2018 Mac Mini is a bad machine, it’s not. But like all of Apples recent Mac’s, apart from the iMac Pro, they have moved from being around 30% more to 50% more for comparable hardware from the likes of Dell.

    If Apple wants to sell less for more, well that’s their choice. But I think it’s going to bite them in the arse.

    I’ve done a rough calculation and I think I could directly link myself to around £250,000 worth of Apple hardware sales since I got that first Mac Mini. That’s a lot of phones, computers and accessories.

    But now I’m starting to recommend alternatives, and if I’m doing it you can better others are too.

    For me it’s sad that Apple is deliberately leaving behind the higher end of the consumer space.
    Oh look, another anti-fan who thinks Apple doesn’t know what it’s doing and is DOOOMED. Cute. 
    watto_cobra
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