Apple iPhone XS awarded smartphone camera of the year, Google Pixel 3 runner-up

124678

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 141
    Seth2015 said:
    I think we're saying the same thing in different ways.

    You're saying best overall camera system?
    So basically a jack of all trades, master of none?
    And I'm saying still camera isn't the best, the video is what pulled it up?

    It really does sound like we're saying the same thing.

    https://www.dxomark.com/apple-iphone-xs-max-review-flagship-imaging-power/

    "With a DxOMark Mobile overall score of 105, Apple’s iPhone XS Max achieves an excellent second place in our smartphone ranking and is currently surpassed only by Huawei’s triple-camera juggernaut P20 Pro"

    "iPhone XS Max zoom images show coarse luminance noise and less detail than some high-end rivals, such as the Huawei P20 Pro and the Samsung Galaxy Note 9"

    "In our comparison, the Huawei P20 Pro captures a touch more highlight detail"

    "Both the Huawei P20 Pro and Samsung Galaxy Note 9 colors are little more vibrant and saturated than the color rendering of the XS Max"

    "Detail is still good in typical indoor light conditions, but not quite as crisp as with the class-leading Huawei P20 Pro"

    "Looking at our night scene comparison below, the levels of captured detail are similar on all three devices, but the Huawei P20 Pro and Samsung Galaxy Note 9 are better able to deal with image noise.

    "The Apple device still keeps up in terms of detail in low light (20 lux), but its image output is visibly noisier than that of the Huawei P20 Pro and the Galaxy Note 9"

    Camera SYSTEM means both pictures and video.  And as a CAMERA SYSTEM, XS is #1.  It is up there with the leader in stills.  It blows everyone by a mile in video.  This makes it the #1 camera system in the world right now.  And for many Youtubers, XS is #1 camera system as well.

    There is no denying it...Apple vaulted the XS camera to be way ahead of everyone else, bar none.  Just accept it dude.  It's OK...your Huawei takes good pics, but its video is just pure crap especially in 4K.  Utter crap.  

    Oh, and here is a dizzying in-depth review of the XS vs everyone: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13392/the-iphone-xs-xs-max-review-unveiling-the-silicon-secrets/11
    edited December 2018 watto_cobraIrishPride84
  • Reply 62 of 141

    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    cjpp78 said:
    Well, I have the XS Max and the photos are something incredible better. No other smartphone have something similar , especially the pixel. Why?because the galaxy or huawei or pixel show the same limit of smartphones camera. The iPhone bring up the level of quality. This is the real step forward to bring us into the future. Not the pixel. Look the picture in a big display or tv and you will understand the differences.
    Don't go getting ahead of yourself there.lol The iPhone Xs has a nice camera and much better than previous iPhone but..The pixels have been smoking the iPhone on camera until the Xs came out..Even now it's a toss up and matter of taste when it comes to which gives the best shot most of the time..Most people still say the pixel 3 has the edge on photos, especially low light. I'd give the iPhone video as well.
    I've taken some amazing shots with my pixel 3 XL. When I had the pics printed out at Wal-Mart the workers there couldn't belieive the pics came from a phone.
    Don’t get ahead of yourself here.......Pixel has been slightly better than previous iPhones ONLY in pics. iPhone has ALWAYS been ahead in video. 

    This year, XS pulled even further ahead. 
    iPhones have improved but are still behind in photography. That is a consensus opinion just by reading around. IQ is only part of picture (pun intended). The flexibility of the camera (and by extension, the phone itself) also plays a part.

    Things like optical zoom, wide angle, macro, low light performance etc.

    When the Mate 10 Pro was released the CEO wanted to share some shots from Alaska and compare them to the iPhone X. It wasn't possible because the iPhone X shut down due to the cold. Of course battery life and storage space also have a big role to play.
    "The photography site selected iPhone XS over other models in its shortlist, which included the Huawei Mate 20 Pro, Samsung Galaxy S9+ and Sony Xperia XZ3.

    Implementation beats specifications every time  in the real world, and no, I have no interest in some anecdote from the Huawei CEO sitting in Anchorage at the airport comparing phones in the cold.
    The same site also said the Pixel 3 beat the iPhone XS 'hands down' for photography.

    You will get shots from a Mate 20 Pro that simply aren't possible on any iPhone.
    The award was for "Smartphone Camera of the Year", not best picture.

    "Winner: Apple iPhone XS


    The iPhone XS faced fierce competition from the Google Pixel 3 this year, and from a pure still image quality standpoint the Pixel 3 wins hands down. But the iPhone XS takes the top spot overall thanks to a more rounded feature set that includes class-leading video, reliable AF, wide color capture and HDR display of imagery, plus a range of improvements over the original iPhone X.

    New in the XS is a larger image sensor in the main camera for better dynamic range and low light performance, and a refined Portrait Mode. In a snub to traditional cameras, the XS allows you to choose your aperture after you shoot - all the way from F1.4 to F16. Cleverly, Apple has modeled the optical properties of real full-frame portrait lenses to accurately - and attractively - simulate 'real' bokeh.

    Perhaps the biggest improvement though is Apple's new 'Smart HDR' feature, which takes advantage of the faster processing capabilities of the phone to capture wider dynamic scenes in stills, panoramas, and even in video up to 4K/30p, making the HEVC 4K footage the best we've seen from a smartphone. Pair all this with improved contrast on one of the best displays on the market, with accurate color management under the hood so you get the benefits of the wide gamut display without a loss in color accuracy, and you have one of the best smartphones available today."

    There is going to be a shit ton of new multicamera smartphones on the market next year; good luck with that Mate 20 Pro, which I would note, at least made the shortlist for "Smartphone Camera of the Year, but sadly for you, lost to both single camera Pixel 3, and the dual camera iPhone XS.


    Definitely true that next year competition will be much fiercer. In three months the P30 Pro will be with us (rumours of x10 optical zoom) and the Mate 30 Pro coinciding with the next iPhone. The Samsungs of course, next Pixels, iPhones and some dark horses (I keep hearing amazing things about the  HTC U12 plus). I think the key is going to be in the flexibility of the camera setups.
    Remind me...isn’t Huawei banned from UK, India, Australia, and USA?  I wonder why.  Just saying.  

    Get one (if you can)...and get spy on by Chinese and 3rd parties.  Good luck in keeping your financials off the Chinese dark market!
    Huawei infrastructure is banned for 5G in US, Australia and New Zealand.

    It is banned solely because of US pressure and based on suspicions that have never been tabled via factual information in more than 30 years. 

    There are no such suspicions about US interference in communications all over the world. It has been well documented. 

    The US doesn't want the Chinese to take the lead in 5G - worldwide - but that is on the cards. The US got caught with its eye off the ball. The result is that the US is trying to pressure other nations into banning Huawei equipment. The latest rumours went so far as to claim the US was offering to pay other countries so that they could stop Huawei.

    In spite of the 'suspicions' no evidence has ever been presented and Huawei has rejected the claims.

    On a handset level, Huawei has not been banned anywhere. Not even the US but once again, the government has basically put pressure on carriers to not sell Huawei handsets.

    In the absence of any real evidence to the contrary, the true reasons for all this are simply protectionist.

    Think about it for a moment. Huawei was in a position to clean up in many tenders for 5G equipment. With handsets, they are already the second largest manufacturer worldwide (aiming for top spot) without access to the world's second largest handset market.




    Oh look, Huawei CFO gal just got arrested for doing business with IRAN.

    Dude, Huawei is banned in USA, UK, Australia, India, and a few others.  You're saying that USA pressured INDIA??????  India has no infrastructure for 4G much less 5G!  

    Where is this "rumor" that USA is paying others for the ban??

    No evidence?  But yet, USA arrested CFO?  No evidence, yet USA banned Huawei years ago even before 4G even existed???  

    You need to open your eyes more.  What you wrote is pure trash and conspiracy theory.  Huawei and ZTE are DISHONEST, IP-stealing, malware infested Chinese companies.  This is fact.  Sorry.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
  • Reply 64 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    No, the rumour came out of a packet that included references to Bone Voice ID. That looked quite questionable at the time and it didn't appear on the Mate 20 Pro. However, it did appear during the Magic 2 presentation. The only difference was that it was on an Honor device and not a Huawei branded device.

    Huawei can easily request that DX0 withold results. I don't know why you think that seems strange. In most cases it would seem counterproductive but the rumour in this case does sound at least feasible.
  • Reply 66 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    No, the rumour came out of a packet that included references to Bone Voice ID. That looked quite questionable at the time and it didn't appear on the Mate 20 Pro. However, it did appear during the Magic 2 presentation. The only difference was that it was on an Honor device and not a Huawei branded device.

    Huawei can easily request that DX0 withold results. I don't know why you think that seems strange. In most cases it would seem counterproductive but the rumour in this case does sound at least feasible.
    Link?  
  • Reply 67 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    No, the rumour came out of a packet that included references to Bone Voice ID. That looked quite questionable at the time and it didn't appear on the Mate 20 Pro. However, it did appear during the Magic 2 presentation. The only difference was that it was on an Honor device and not a Huawei branded device.

    Huawei can easily request that DX0 withold results. I don't know why you think that seems strange. In most cases it would seem counterproductive but the rumour in this case does sound at least feasible.
    Link?  
    I'm speaking from memory. In the run-up to the Mate 20, the rumour mill was overheating. 
  • Reply 68 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    No, the rumour came out of a packet that included references to Bone Voice ID. That looked quite questionable at the time and it didn't appear on the Mate 20 Pro. However, it did appear during the Magic 2 presentation. The only difference was that it was on an Honor device and not a Huawei branded device.

    Huawei can easily request that DX0 withold results. I don't know why you think that seems strange. In most cases it would seem counterproductive but the rumour in this case does sound at least feasible.
    Link?  
    I'm speaking from memory. In the run-up to the Mate 20, the rumour mill was overheating. 
    Lol. Thought so. FOS. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 69 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    No, the rumour came out of a packet that included references to Bone Voice ID. That looked quite questionable at the time and it didn't appear on the Mate 20 Pro. However, it did appear during the Magic 2 presentation. The only difference was that it was on an Honor device and not a Huawei branded device.

    Huawei can easily request that DX0 withold results. I don't know why you think that seems strange. In most cases it would seem counterproductive but the rumour in this case does sound at least feasible.
    Link?  
    I'm speaking from memory. In the run-up to the Mate 20, the rumour mill was overheating. 
    Lol. Thought so. FOS. 
    You do realise that we're talking about rumours, don't you?
  • Reply 70 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to 
    proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member

    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    Your rumor tree is false. That “115” came out of some Chinese kid with photoshop skill. That same kid incorrectly predicted XS score. 

    DxO publishes the scores on its own time frame. OEMs do not tell it when to publish.  

    Lol. Seriously that’s a riot of a post you wrote!!!!  

    DxO has issues in its testing methodology but what you wrote is pure trash...again. 
    No, the rumour came out of a packet that included references to Bone Voice ID. That looked quite questionable at the time and it didn't appear on the Mate 20 Pro. However, it did appear during the Magic 2 presentation. The only difference was that it was on an Honor device and not a Huawei branded device.

    Huawei can easily request that DX0 withold results. I don't know why you think that seems strange. In most cases it would seem counterproductive but the rumour in this case does sound at least feasible.
    Link?  
    I'm speaking from memory. In the run-up to the Mate 20, the rumour mill was overheating. 
    Lol. Thought so. FOS. 
    He's such a tool.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
  • Reply 73 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    edited December 2018 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    People buy Go Pro with 4K precisely as a big selling point. People do not do the same with smartphones. Ask your friends and colleagues for their use cases.

    Huawei sells lots of all its phones. Most of them in the mid to high end. They have something for everyone.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 75 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    People buy Go Pro with 4K precisely as a big selling point. People do not do the same with smartphones. Ask your friends and colleagues for their use cases.
    LOL...so, now, ONLY smartphone people don't use 4k...got it.  What a fool.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    People buy Go Pro with 4K precisely as a big selling point. People do not do the same with smartphones. Ask your friends and colleagues for their use cases.
    LOL...so, now, ONLY smartphone people don't use 4k...got it.  What a fool.
    No. 4K is not a selling point for smartphones. It is a feature of many. This is backed up by use and compounded by the fact that even the newest iPhones still default to 1080p. I have never met anyone who actually made a point of even mentioning 4K and video. Now ask your friends and colleagues. How many use 4K video more than the camera?

    On the other hand 4K IS a selling point for Go Pro and televisions.
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 77 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    People buy Go Pro with 4K precisely as a big selling point. People do not do the same with smartphones. Ask your friends and colleagues for their use cases.
    LOL...so, now, ONLY smartphone people don't use 4k...got it.  What a fool.
    No. 4K is not a selling point for smartphones. It is a feature of many. This is backed up by use and compounded by the fact that even the newest iPhones still default to 1080p. I have never met anyone who actually made a point of even mentioning 4K and video. Now ask your friends and colleagues. How many use 4K video more than the camera?

    On the other hand 4K IS a selling point for Go Pro and televisions.
    You are so full of shit with your anecdotes. It's like you strive to live in the dark ages.

    People shoot 4K 24P on the iPhone XS so that they can record in High Dynamic Range. Why would someone want to shoot in 1080P and give up dynamic range? You can post process to 1080P and get the best of both world's.  Almost certainly a driver for increased storage purchased by iPhone X buyers. Please note that Apple has the acknowledged lead in Color Management in Smartphones, which makes video production superior to anything available for Android OS.

    More to the point, it's possible to increase iPhone XS IQ merely by using third party applications, like Halide, that support RAW. Of course, you don't want anyone to be aware of this because "it's not standard".

    People interested in photography on smartphones have the option of  applications that can give them better IQ. These same people also have readily available options for add on lenses.


    I post the following link so that you can educate yourself on the value of Apple iPhones  in the used market, and the effect they have of increasing ASP in new sales;

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/10/22/the-gray-markets-impact-on-iphone-pricing
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 78 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,946member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    Madtiger said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Seth2015 said:
    Madtiger said:
    Seth2015 said:
    I wonder how much Apple paid for this?

    Zero.  Apple is not Android OEMs.  (BTW, DPreview is very authoritative in camera world.)
    Don't you then find it interesting that when they run a blind test with 5,000,000+ votes - the iPhone doesn't come anywhere?
    And when DXOMark (also a leader in optical tests) does their reviews, the iPhone comes 3 or 4 ?
    And that any other review generally ends with the conclusion that although the iPhone is exceptional, it cannot match the Huawei?
    Seen the night pictures between the two? They can't even really be compared.

    Anyway - it seems really odd that although iPhone hasn't had a winning camera for 2 or 3 years, this crops up. Beating the Pixel is one - but beating the Huawei?
    For the record, the XS is currently second behind the Huawei P20 Pro, 109 to 105, at DXOmark. That's not a huge lead by any stretch, and given the limitations of the Huawei in usability, there isn't going to be much, if any, iPhone buyers scurrying off to pick up a Mate 20 Pro. Mostly though, people are a lot less interested in high end camera features simply because the current systems are "good enough".

    Obviously, DPReview found that the Mate 20 Pro didn't best the iPhone XS, because the finalists were only the Pixel 3 and the iPhone XS.

    Oh btw, a blind, online test isn't really a test of image quality; it's actually a test of viewing conditions, and bias.
    I'm not sure what you mean by usability.

    The Huawei camera app has always had a full on Pro mode which is often praised by photographers precisely for its usability.

    One of the major criticisms of iPhones is the very limited options out of the box. Also, the insistence of the phone to have absolute control of if you can even take a picture or not while in certain modes. The last one I read was regarding the HDR mode. Before that it was low light portrait mode.

    The lead of the P20 Pro over the XS at DX0 is quite big. The surprising thing is that Apple's latest, and best iPhones ever, are sitting behind a phone that was released in March.

    It's strange that the Mate 20 Pro has not been listed but there is speculation that Huawei is actually holding the results back for marketing reasons. To leave the P20 Pro in the spotlight for as long as possible and maximise sales (the P20 Pro is currently part of a marketing push). The same sources claim that the minute the P20 Pro sees a challenger, Huawei will release the Mate 20 Pro results which are supposedly in the 115 ball park (pure rumours of course but they came out of a huge packet of rumours and all the rest were correct).
    comment on DXOMark P20 Pro review from Huawei P20 Pro user:

    "I'm a photographer and have to agree with the below comment. This is a terrible cellphone. Bought it and completly regret it. This review doesnt take into consideration a lot of factors. On 40mp, the picture is so slow that it's only reliable for completly static pictures. You also cant zoom on 40mp. The camera also takes forever processing the picture and sometimes the picture isnt taken at all, if yoy move the camera to fast after pressing the shutter. It has a terrible timelapse, and slow motion videos are uselless, they are 5secs videos, you cant make them last longer. Soooooo disapointed, im aelling it and buying note9 a much more reliable phone."

    Sounds like some older Nokia's, horrible usability, but you could get good images if you waited around long enough. Few bought them.

    DXOMark doesn't test video at 4K, and frankly, DXOMark isn't a standard that I would use to choose any phone.

    DPReview has earned its credibility over many years of solid reviews.

    I've stated it before, and I'll state it again; there isn't a big market for smartphones with bleeding edge cameras, simply because most everything available is "good enough". Still, Huawei caters to people like you, who don't actually buy the high end devices, but love to proselytize Huawei specs. 

    Just differentiation in the Android OS device world.
    Don't you find it strange that since its release in March and having sold millions of them, this type of issue hasn't been picked up on en masse. Even with the phone included in untold reviews and used - side by side - with direct competitors?

    You should be doubting he is a photographer and doubting he has a P20 Pro.

    DX0 Mark is what it is. It is used throughout the smartphone industry and those that can (those that top the leaderboard) use often use it to market phones. Logical.

    As has been shown time and time again 4K is rarely a selling point for a phone. How else would the P20 Series have been able to break records for Huawei and then follow through with the Mate 20 series so far off to a record start.

    Most people buy phones that have 4K, not because of it.

    There is a huge market for cameras with bleeding edge cameras. Millions sold support this idea and the camera IS a major selling point to those who buy them. 4K isn't.

    Ask yourself how much time your average user spends recording 4K video and photos. 4K is a bonus for most users, nothing more. Go ahead and ask all your friends and colleagues. It is actually HIGHLY likely that if they are even recording videos they are doing so at non-4K resolution due to storage issues.
    Actually, for me, i use 4k30 exclusively.  And i use video MORE than pictures.  I have found that memories of my kids are better captured on video because you're able to visualize the scene/event better thru video.

    P20P is selling well within Huawei.  But Huawei got to #2 because it sells a lot of cheap phones!  This is why its ASP is around $200-250...same as Samsung.  Let's not get ahead of ourselves and thinking that P20P sales are even remotely close to iPhones...or even Samsung flagships.

    Remember, that newer iPhones have HEVC/HEIF...so, storage is lesser of an issue.  You be surprise at how many people know about 4k.  Think about it.  Look at GoPro or any other camera segment...4k is highly marketed by everyone, from DSLR to GoPro to smartphones.  The fact that you think 4K is some niche thing shows your ignorance.
    People buy Go Pro with 4K precisely as a big selling point. People do not do the same with smartphones. Ask your friends and colleagues for their use cases.
    LOL...so, now, ONLY smartphone people don't use 4k...got it.  What a fool.
    No. 4K is not a selling point for smartphones. It is a feature of many. This is backed up by use and compounded by the fact that even the newest iPhones still default to 1080p. I have never met anyone who actually made a point of even mentioning 4K and video. Now ask your friends and colleagues. How many use 4K video more than the camera?

    On the other hand 4K IS a selling point for Go Pro and televisions.
    You are so full of shit with your anecdotes. It's like you strive to live in the dark ages.

    People shoot 4K 24P on the iPhone XS so that they can record in High Dynamic Range. Why would someone want to shoot in 1080P and give up dynamic range? You can post process to 1080P and get the best of both world's.  Almost certainly a driver for increased storage purchased by iPhone X buyers. Please note that Apple has the acknowledged lead in Color Management in Smartphones, which makes video production superior to anything available for Android OS.

    More to the point, it's possible to increase iPhone XS IQ merely by using third party applications, like Halide, that support RAW. Of course, you don't want anyone to be aware of this because "it's not standard".

    People interested in photography on smartphones have the option of  applications that can give them better IQ. These same people also have readily available options for add on lenses.


    I post the following link so that you can educate yourself on the value of Apple iPhones  in the used market, and the effect they have of increasing ASP in new sales;

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/10/22/the-gray-markets-impact-on-iphone-pricing
    How many people spend even a short amount of time shooting video on phones?

    How many iPhone users even bother to flip the switch to 4K. The default is 1080p. That says it all really.

    ASP is irrelevant to consumers.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 79 of 141
    Avon B7 ...

    I think that you're the only one that can actually speak sense on this forum. 
  • Reply 80 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    Seth2015 said:
    Avon B7 ...

    I think that you're the only one that can actually speak sense on this forum. 
    You and Avon B7.

    Two Huawei owners enjoying the bliss of trolling Apple users.

    Heaven, on earth.
    edited December 2018 watto_cobra
This discussion has been closed.