Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
Actually, laws are the least of things on a practical level. The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
Let's not even get into what Snowden revealed about US activities on just about every friend or foe out there - including Huawei.
AT&T was seen to be particularly eager to help out with government whenever the option arose.
We need to be realistic. No one will stop the Chinese, Russians or Americans and others accessing parts of communications infrastructure.
This isn't about 'security', it's about commerce. Huawei is out in front and was delivering the goods. The tech power balance was shifting and the US dropped the ball on 5G. Now, with the tariffs and whatnot, competitors are accelerating plans to depend on themselves. Not just the Chinese but the EU too.
You seem unable to digest the fact that China is an authoritarian state, so of course, you see this as only competitive commerce.
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
I would support Huawei phones if it didn't come with Google Android.
The US is a rogue state that make up it owns rules for themselves, using the WTO, UN, IMF, World Bank, etc etc etc and many other organisations. People in the US may not understand or can comprehend this, but people in other countries certainly do. The US will fight, and is fighting to deny any competition.
What is really astonishing about your statement is that if you really believe this about the US (as is your right) the determining factor is not matters of principle or right and wrong or human decency but the Android operating system - “The US is a horrible rogue State but a Chinese company there uses Android on their devices so you know, whatever, I’ll support the US in this dispute”.
Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
l bet families of high ranking ATT and Verizon managers were threatened to be harmed/killed to get to the results the US gov-t wanted, right? Just like it would be in China, eh? That is totally not a false equivalence fallacy here, that you have just made.... SMH
On a related note, I never saw this bit of news reported.
One of the two homes that are owned by Wanzhou and/or her husband here in Vancouver was the site of a home invasion during the time she was waiting for her bail hearing. The intruders left when someone confronted them, but the timing is awfully suspicious.
Why story are you making up? I can give your story a little spice. The weekend after Huawei CFO bail meeting, the defense minister and foreign ministers of US and Canada meet at DC. And the Canadian government wants to make the detention as a financial fraud case. Now you know why so many Chinese companies want to boycott Apple products. It is the US and Canada making the case a national security matter, But the court said it is related to the Iranian sanctions.
All the posts before mine, none have mentioned the Iran sanction.
Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
Actually, laws are the least of things on a practical level. The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
Let's not even get into what Snowden revealed about US activities on just about every friend or foe out there - including Huawei.
AT&T was seen to be particularly eager to help out with government whenever the option arose.
We need to be realistic. No one will stop the Chinese, Russians or Americans and others accessing parts of communications infrastructure.
This isn't about 'security', it's about commerce. Huawei is out in front and was delivering the goods. The tech power balance was shifting and the US dropped the ball on 5G. Now, with the tariffs and whatnot, competitors are accelerating plans to depend on themselves. Not just the Chinese but the EU too.
You seem unable to digest the fact that China is an authoritarian state, so of course, you see this as only competitive commerce.
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
'The idea is ...'
The US idea is.
There is nothing to show for anything they have said and Huawei is now openly asking for the US to put something on the table.
Germany asked to see evidence first and as a result the US is doubling down on efforts for Germany to shun Huawei - but the evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
Actually, laws are the least of things on a practical level. The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
Let's not even get into what Snowden revealed about US activities on just about every friend or foe out there - including Huawei.
AT&T was seen to be particularly eager to help out with government whenever the option arose.
We need to be realistic. No one will stop the Chinese, Russians or Americans and others accessing parts of communications infrastructure.
This isn't about 'security', it's about commerce. Huawei is out in front and was delivering the goods. The tech power balance was shifting and the US dropped the ball on 5G. Now, with the tariffs and whatnot, competitors are accelerating plans to depend on themselves. Not just the Chinese but the EU too.
You seem unable to digest the fact that China is an authoritarian state, so of course, you see this as only competitive commerce.
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
'The idea is ...'
The US idea is.
There is nothing to show for anything they have said and Huawei is now openly asking for the US to put something on the table.
Germany asked to see evidence first and as a result the US is doubling down on efforts for Germany to shun Huawei - but the evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
Germany is part of the Fourteen Eyes, as is Spain, Belgium, Italy, and Sweden, and have a lesser relationship with the Five (which includes Japan, Korea, Singapore, and Israel) or even the Nine (which includes Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, and France). As before, the original surveillance agreement was extended to these other countries. The official name of this group of countries is referred to as SIGINT Seniors Europe (SSEUR).
National Security Agencies rarely unveil their National Technical means to provide evidence. Why might that be?
I don't know what the U.S. provided to Germany, but even if they did, Germany would not be able to release that evidence either.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to be providing any 5G infrastructure to the Five Eyes, and as China doubles down on autocracy, likely more countries will outright ban Huawei telecom equipment.
I do. And it might. But there are some fundamental differences. France as a sovereign state is not stealing our intellectual property, hacking our companies, detaining our citizens out of spite, trying to annex other countries, putting their citizens into mass enslavement camps, selling telecommunications infrastructure that may allow them to spy on all data that passes through the equipment, forcing our companies to give them access to all data, expanding their military and threatening destabilizing actions like China is in the South China Sea and forcing their citizens to “Buy French”.These are very different to a short term political spat over Iraq.
I was referring to the Chinese boycott of Apple.
I know. You asked if anyone remembered “Freedom Fries” I said I did. You said this would pass much like that did. I said “It might” Then I gave my reasons why I though this could be different to the Freedom Fries spat over the US invasion of Iraq.
I don't think you are getting what I'm trying to say here.
We controlled the "Freedom Fries" boycott, so we were in control of that boycott.
In this case, China is in control of the boycott, and we have no control over when they decide to stop it.
Let's just agree on the fact that the misunderstanding was never cleared (at least for me) and move on.
Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
Actually, laws are the least of things on a practical level. The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
Let's not even get into what Snowden revealed about US activities on just about every friend or foe out there - including Huawei.
AT&T was seen to be particularly eager to help out with government whenever the option arose.
We need to be realistic. No one will stop the Chinese, Russians or Americans and others accessing parts of communications infrastructure.
This isn't about 'security', it's about commerce. Huawei is out in front and was delivering the goods. The tech power balance was shifting and the US dropped the ball on 5G. Now, with the tariffs and whatnot, competitors are accelerating plans to depend on themselves. Not just the Chinese but the EU too.
You seem unable to digest the fact that China is an authoritarian state, so of course, you see this as only competitive commerce.
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
'The idea is ...'
The US idea is.
There is nothing to show for anything they have said and Huawei is now openly asking for the US to put something on the table.
Germany asked to see evidence first and as a result the US is doubling down on efforts for Germany to shun Huawei - but the evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
Germany is part of the Fourteen Eyes, as is Spain, Belgium, Italy, and Sweden, and have a lesser relationship with the Five (which includes Japan, Korea, Singapore, and Israel) or even the Nine (which includes Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, and France). As before, the original surveillance agreement was extended to these other countries. The official name of this group of countries is referred to as SIGINT Seniors Europe (SSEUR).
National Security Agencies rarely unveil their National Technical means to provide evidence. Why might that be?
I don't know what the U.S. provided to Germany, but even if they did, Germany would not be able to release that evidence either.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to be providing any 5G infrastructure to the Five Eyes, and as China doubles down on autocracy, likely more countries will outright ban Huawei telecom equipment.
You do realise that a UK teleco has just signed a £2 billion contract with Huawei and most UK players are proceeding with Huawei 5G trials.
Germany has gone on record as saying no evidence has been provided. The Czechs have overruled the ban.
This is from the horse's mouth on what is happening and why:
Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
Actually, laws are the least of things on a practical level. The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
Let's not even get into what Snowden revealed about US activities on just about every friend or foe out there - including Huawei.
AT&T was seen to be particularly eager to help out with government whenever the option arose.
We need to be realistic. No one will stop the Chinese, Russians or Americans and others accessing parts of communications infrastructure.
This isn't about 'security', it's about commerce. Huawei is out in front and was delivering the goods. The tech power balance was shifting and the US dropped the ball on 5G. Now, with the tariffs and whatnot, competitors are accelerating plans to depend on themselves. Not just the Chinese but the EU too.
You seem unable to digest the fact that China is an authoritarian state, so of course, you see this as only competitive commerce.
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
'The idea is ...'
The US idea is.
There is nothing to show for anything they have said and Huawei is now openly asking for the US to put something on the table.
Germany asked to see evidence first and as a result the US is doubling down on efforts for Germany to shun Huawei - but the evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
Germany is part of the Fourteen Eyes, as is Spain, Belgium, Italy, and Sweden, and have a lesser relationship with the Five (which includes Japan, Korea, Singapore, and Israel) or even the Nine (which includes Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, and France). As before, the original surveillance agreement was extended to these other countries. The official name of this group of countries is referred to as SIGINT Seniors Europe (SSEUR).
National Security Agencies rarely unveil their National Technical means to provide evidence. Why might that be?
I don't know what the U.S. provided to Germany, but even if they did, Germany would not be able to release that evidence either.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to be providing any 5G infrastructure to the Five Eyes, and as China doubles down on autocracy, likely more countries will outright ban Huawei telecom equipment.
You do realise that a UK teleco has just signed a £2 billion contract with Huawei and most UK players are proceeding with Huawei 5G trials.
Germany has gone on record as saying no evidence has been provided. The Czechs have overruled the ban.
This is from the horse's mouth on what is happening and why:
"Speaking to media about Huawei's involvement in 5G networks earlier on Wednesday, Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said the government won't discuss any national security concerns publicly.
"We carefully consider, obviously, all the national security issues relating to telecommunications. But we'll continue to consider that and get the best advice on that from our security agencies. But I'm not going to have a public discussion about it here," Turnbull said.
"All of those matters are under very careful consideration. The 5G is an evolution of wireless telecommunications. It has different characteristics than, you know, what we're enjoying at the moment, 4G and before that 3G, processing is more distributed.
"It's a very different, much more powerful, much more pervasive technology because we're moving into the internet of everything, where just about everything will, one day or another, be connected to the internet by sensors and so forth. So it's a big evolution and one that we're focused on very carefully and in particular on the national security aspects of it."
I'll side with the Prime Minister, thanks very much.
Not sure that Huawei is doing better in Europe. It appears that National Security interests are taking a toll. Given that China is now seen as a major violator of human rights, I wold expect to see some UN action against China, well, excepting that China holds veto power.
"The Uighurs are a predominantly Turkic Muslim population that the government perceives as subversive for maintaining a distinct identity, language, and culture. The Chinese government claims they are held in "re-education camps" to combat extremism. But human rights groups and Western news organizations have reported brutal methods like torture and starvation are being used to sever their ties to Islam. Uighurs in Xinjiang are also subject to extreme surveillance."
"Before too long, they'll detain us too. More on that later. But while the authorities in Xinjiang keep close tabs on foreign reporters, their vigilance is nothing compared to their persecution of the Uighur population.
Nowhere in the world, not even in North Korea, is the population monitored as strictly as it is in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, an area that is four times the size of Germany and shares borders with eight countries, including Pakistan, Afghanistan Tajikistan and Kazakhstan.
Oppression has been in place for years, but has worsened massively in recent months. It is targeted primarily at the Uighur minority, a Turkic ethnic group of some 10 million Sunni Muslims considered by Beijing to be a hindrance to the development of a "harmonious society." A spate of attacks involving Uighur militants has only consolidated this belief."
I'll bet that the Chinese Government uses lots of Huawei gear to run their spy network, and I imagine Huawei's AI tech is part of that.
Personally, the faster Apple withdraws all manufacturing from China, and maybe even deliberately halts all sales, the better this will be! If Apple withdraws, and takes all their manufacturing jobs with them, let's see how long China will take to start begging them to come back!
I'm sure that Chinese Companies and individuals will see their social scores increase by participating in these boycotts.
The Five Eyes are aligned against Chinese Telecom equipment, and as they should be. There's no odds in a telecom infrastructure from an authoritarian government known for IP theft.
If Apple gets beaten up in China, then I'm guessing that China will no longer be the supply chain for Apple Products.
The Five Eyes already has a lot Huawei gear. Nothing surprising in that. What is new is the US desperately trying to stop Huawei progress for technological and political reasons under the guise of security and doing so, so late in the day that the UK roll out of 5G could be put back by a year and cost a lot more. All without a shred of evidence.
I'm not seeing the need for proof, no more than China would by banning / eliminating U.S.telecom equipment. Were you aware that Huawei is providing AI hardware to the Chinese Government for upgrading its already intrusive network spying on its own citizens?
China has an authoritarian government, President for Life, and China is adamant about seizing the South China Sea per it's claims, which bodes ill for international trade. Given the rampant IP theft, and Chinese Hacking, I'm not seeing why democracies would risk using Huawei infrastructure.
Great Britain is in the process of reevaluating Huawei equipment; the rest, including the U.S., have little in the way of Huawei equipment in place, and most of that will be removed or replaced.
"In Australia, experts are also concerned about cyber-security attacks against our institutions and businesses emanating from China.
For example, consider recent reports in this newspaper that China’s peak security agency directed a surge in cyber attacks on Australian companies over the past year; and that internet traffic heading for Australia was diverted to China for a six-day period.
There's no suggestion Huawei is in anyway involved in these attacks. But the government's decision to ban it from Australia's 5G networks was certainly based on concerns about China.
"A long history of cyber incidents shows cyber actors target Australia and Australians," Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Mitch Fifield said in their joint statement back in August without directly mentioning China.
"The government considers that the involvement of vendors who are likely to be subject to extrajudicial directions from a foreign government that conflict with Australian law, may risk failure by the carrier to adequately protect a 5G network from unauthorised access or interference."
In other words, the government was concerned that even if Huawei wasn't directly controlled by the Chinese government (the vendor has always denied that it is), under the country's laws it wouldn't be able to resist any demands made on it by Beijing."
Huawei is not China.
Correction, they are FROM China, and as per Chinese law, as Tmay stated, they CANNOT refuse ANY order from the government, hence they're an integral part of the PRC government. Not to mention Huawei is a bunch of IP thieves, so their reputation is just as bad as most Chinese tech firms already.
Actually, laws are the least of things on a practical level. The US has already pressured AT&T and Verizon to pull out of commercial deals with Huawei. Who needs laws when you can leverage other options.
Let's not even get into what Snowden revealed about US activities on just about every friend or foe out there - including Huawei.
AT&T was seen to be particularly eager to help out with government whenever the option arose.
We need to be realistic. No one will stop the Chinese, Russians or Americans and others accessing parts of communications infrastructure.
This isn't about 'security', it's about commerce. Huawei is out in front and was delivering the goods. The tech power balance was shifting and the US dropped the ball on 5G. Now, with the tariffs and whatnot, competitors are accelerating plans to depend on themselves. Not just the Chinese but the EU too.
You seem unable to digest the fact that China is an authoritarian state, so of course, you see this as only competitive commerce.
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
'The idea is ...'
The US idea is.
There is nothing to show for anything they have said and Huawei is now openly asking for the US to put something on the table.
Germany asked to see evidence first and as a result the US is doubling down on efforts for Germany to shun Huawei - but the evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
Germany is part of the Fourteen Eyes, as is Spain, Belgium, Italy, and Sweden, and have a lesser relationship with the Five (which includes Japan, Korea, Singapore, and Israel) or even the Nine (which includes Norway, Denmark, The Netherlands, and France). As before, the original surveillance agreement was extended to these other countries. The official name of this group of countries is referred to as SIGINT Seniors Europe (SSEUR).
National Security Agencies rarely unveil their National Technical means to provide evidence. Why might that be?
I don't know what the U.S. provided to Germany, but even if they did, Germany would not be able to release that evidence either.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to be providing any 5G infrastructure to the Five Eyes, and as China doubles down on autocracy, likely more countries will outright ban Huawei telecom equipment.
You do realise that a UK teleco has just signed a £2 billion contract with Huawei and most UK players are proceeding with Huawei 5G trials.
Germany has gone on record as saying no evidence has been provided. The Czechs have overruled the ban.
This is from the horse's mouth on what is happening and why:
Yes, the EU really wants the Chinese spying on everything that goes through their telecommunications system. If you are going to troll at least make it somewhat believable!
I do. And it might. But there are some fundamental differences. France as a sovereign state is not stealing our intellectual property, hacking our companies, detaining our citizens out of spite, trying to annex other countries, putting their citizens into mass enslavement camps, selling telecommunications infrastructure that may allow them to spy on all data that passes through the equipment, forcing our companies to give them access to all data, expanding their military and threatening destabilizing actions like China is in the South China Sea and forcing their citizens to “Buy French”.These are very different to a short term political spat over Iraq.
I was referring to the Chinese boycott of Apple.
I know. You asked if anyone remembered “Freedom Fries” I said I did. You said this would pass much like that did. I said “It might” Then I gave my reasons why I though this could be different to the Freedom Fries spat over the US invasion of Iraq.
I don't think you are getting what I'm trying to say here.
We controlled the "Freedom Fries" boycott, so we were in control of that boycott.
In this case, China is in control of the boycott, and we have no control over when they decide to stop it.
Let's just agree on the fact that the misunderstanding was never cleared (at least for me) and move on.
I do. And it might. But there are some fundamental differences. France as a sovereign state is not stealing our intellectual property, hacking our companies, detaining our citizens out of spite, trying to annex other countries, putting their citizens into mass enslavement camps, selling telecommunications infrastructure that may allow them to spy on all data that passes through the equipment, forcing our companies to give them access to all data, expanding their military and threatening destabilizing actions like China is in the South China Sea and forcing their citizens to “Buy French”.These are very different to a short term political spat over Iraq.
I was referring to the Chinese boycott of Apple.
I know. You asked if anyone remembered “Freedom Fries” I said I did. You said this would pass much like that did. I said “It might” Then I gave my reasons why I though this could be different to the Freedom Fries spat over the US invasion of Iraq.
I don't think you are getting what I'm trying to say here.
We controlled the "Freedom Fries" boycott, so we were in control of that boycott.
In this case, China is in control of the boycott, and we have no control over when they decide to stop it.
Let's just agree on the fact that the misunderstanding was never cleared (at least for me) and move on.
How you got all that from your first post is remarkable. But okay, I’ll move on. And a Merry Christmas to you.
This behavior is utter non-sense but I guess cantc expect anything different...
Huawei: - the words itsekg means "to server China" - Compaby formed by ex-chinese military man of high rank with connection to top officials in Chinese communist government - company has received direct and indirect funding from Chinese government in initial years and may be even now - Chinese communist laws require corporations to cooperate with government with necessary info when required. This clearly exposes entire world's communication infrastructure run by Chinese Vendor Huawei - Huawei has been there done that when it comes to unfair trade and business practices since it was formed. Bribery, stealing intellectual property, copyrights, theft of intellectual property and specimens axross the board in all domains of communication business i.e. mobile phones, IP routing products, telecom infrastructure, etc. - By all means Huawei has executed their dirty games to kill Motorola, Alcatel-Lucent, Siemens telecom, Nokia, Ericsson and now threatening Apple, Samsung etc. This is simply not result of competition but unfair business practices of Huawei backed by Chinese government
Huawei is a major threat to not just other busineses but also to security aspect as the world moves to 5G technologies.
If all Chinese corporations and Government want to backup Huawei then why not all other Western countires start supporting their own brands?
Yeah...maybe the Chinese need to look up the definition of boycott. I can assure you it’s not about punishment and removal of someone’s personal property. But this is China, so...
The allegations are serious enough that the Indian government is setting up inter-ministerial talks to take a final call on Huawei (second news items on the linked page). These talks will be held before the commercial roll-out of 5G in India.
The allegations are serious enough that the Indian government is setting up inter-ministerial talks to take a final call on Huawei (second news items on the linked page). These talks will be held before the commercial roll-out of 5G in India.
Thank you so much for this.
India may well end up as the great counterweight to China's expansionism in South Asia.
Don’t fuck with US or Trump may order US companies to stop selling components to China companies like modem chips and shitz. And they’re fucked. GTE reminds them of anything?
NASA and the Departments of Justice and Commerce have been banned from purchasing Huawei and ZTE hardware even if integrated into other vendors' systems, since 2013. I don't think that's the basic issue.
This promotion by Chinese companies is pretty evidently a result of a directive from the Chinese government, which is not happy about the trade war the US administration is trying to wage. Given that a resurgent China is rightfully resentful over a century or more of European and American economic and political exploitation and intervention, a trade war is not likely to help any US company doing business in China.
The WTO would cease to exist as a functioning mulitaleral organisation if it started ejecting members for political reasons that have nothing with global trade.
Chinese companies encouraging employees to Buy Huawei products instead of a rival’s products is no different from American companies encouraging their employees to boycott Apple products and buy rival Android products - as Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Facebook, is reported to have done, recently.
I am beginning to wish that Apple never bothered with this market. In a way, I envy Google and Facebook, which are effectively barred from competing in China.
They banned facebook ???? They are doing something right then
Comments
"There is an interesting backdrop to this high profile diplomatic dispute getting ignored by most of the major press in Canada. The Australian Press exposed a meeting of the Five Eyes intelligence network with Prime Minister Trudeau at an undisclosed location in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia this past summer. The intelligence chiefs spoke of threats coming from China. Since the meeting, there has been an unprecedented campaign to ban Huawei technology from the emerging 5G networks in the Five Eyes countries, namely Canada, the U.S., the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand. The argument is that Huawei would use advanced capabilities to provide intelligence to the Chinese government, making it a threat to national security.[5]"
You fail to understand that since China is an Authoritarian Government, any private company, including Huawei with very close ties to the government, would have to act on any request of the Chinese Government. Why would any Western Democracy take the risk of installing Huawei or ZTE telecom equipment given that circumstance?
All the posts before mine, none have mentioned the Iran sanction.
The US idea is.
There is nothing to show for anything they have said and Huawei is now openly asking for the US to put something on the table.
Germany asked to see evidence first and as a result the US is doubling down on efforts for Germany to shun Huawei - but the evidence hasn't been forthcoming.
National Security Agencies rarely unveil their National Technical means to provide evidence. Why might that be?
I don't know what the U.S. provided to Germany, but even if they did, Germany would not be able to release that evidence either.
Bottom line, Huawei isn't going to be providing any 5G infrastructure to the Five Eyes, and as China doubles down on autocracy, likely more countries will outright ban Huawei telecom equipment.
We controlled the "Freedom Fries" boycott, so we were in control of that boycott.
In this case, China is in control of the boycott, and we have no control over when they decide to stop it.
Let's just agree on the fact that the misunderstanding was never cleared (at least for me) and move on.
Germany has gone on record as saying no evidence has been provided. The Czechs have overruled the ban.
This is from the horse's mouth on what is happening and why:
https://www.afr.com/business/telecommunications/huaweis-australia-chair-john-lord-speaks-out-my-loyalty-is-not-shaken-20181219-h19axd
"Speaking to media about Huawei's involvement in 5G networks earlier on Wednesday, Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said the government won't discuss any national security concerns publicly.
"We carefully consider, obviously, all the national security issues relating to telecommunications. But we'll continue to consider that and get the best advice on that from our security agencies. But I'm not going to have a public discussion about it here," Turnbull said.
"All of those matters are under very careful consideration. The 5G is an evolution of wireless telecommunications. It has different characteristics than, you know, what we're enjoying at the moment, 4G and before that 3G, processing is more distributed.
"It's a very different, much more powerful, much more pervasive technology because we're moving into the internet of everything, where just about everything will, one day or another, be connected to the internet by sensors and so forth. So it's a big evolution and one that we're focused on very carefully and in particular on the national security aspects of it."
I'll side with the Prime Minister, thanks very much.https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/business/chinas-huawei-faces-new-setbacks-in-europes-telecom-market/articleshow/67216367.cms
Not sure that Huawei is doing better in Europe. It appears that National Security interests are taking a toll. Given that China is now seen as a major violator of human rights, I wold expect to see some UN action against China, well, excepting that China holds veto power.
https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/chinas-crackdown-uighurs-extends-overseas
"The Uighurs are a predominantly Turkic Muslim population that the government perceives as subversive for maintaining a distinct identity, language, and culture. The Chinese government claims they are held in "re-education camps" to combat extremism. But human rights groups and Western news organizations have reported brutal methods like torture and starvation are being used to sever their ties to Islam. Uighurs in Xinjiang are also subject to extreme surveillance."
I post that last link below;
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/china-s-xinjiang-province-a-surveillance-state-unlike-any-the-world-has-ever-seen-a-1220174.html
"Before too long, they'll detain us too. More on that later. But while the authorities in Xinjiang keep close tabs on foreign reporters, their vigilance is nothing compared to their persecution of the Uighur population.
Nowhere in the world, not even in North Korea, is the population monitored as strictly as it is in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, an area that is four times the size of Germany and shares borders with eight countries, including Pakistan, Afghanistan Tajikistan and Kazakhstan.
Oppression has been in place for years, but has worsened massively in recent months. It is targeted primarily at the Uighur minority, a Turkic ethnic group of some 10 million Sunni Muslims considered by Beijing to be a hindrance to the development of a "harmonious society." A spate of attacks involving Uighur militants has only consolidated this belief."
I'll bet that the Chinese Government uses lots of Huawei gear to run their spy network, and I imagine Huawei's AI tech is part of that.
Sorry, but I have no use for Huawei.
How you got all that from your first post is remarkable. But okay, I’ll move on. And a Merry Christmas to you.
"Screw the innovator and support the knockoff!"
Huawei:
- the words itsekg means "to server China"
- Compaby formed by ex-chinese military man of high rank with connection to top officials in Chinese communist government
- company has received direct and indirect funding from Chinese government in initial years and may be even now
- Chinese communist laws require corporations to cooperate with government with necessary info when required. This clearly exposes entire world's communication infrastructure run by Chinese Vendor Huawei
- Huawei has been there done that when it comes to unfair trade and business practices since it was formed. Bribery, stealing intellectual property, copyrights, theft of intellectual property and specimens axross the board in all domains of communication business i.e. mobile phones, IP routing products, telecom infrastructure, etc.
- By all means Huawei has executed their dirty games to kill Motorola, Alcatel-Lucent, Siemens telecom, Nokia, Ericsson and now threatening Apple, Samsung etc. This is simply not result of competition but unfair business practices of Huawei backed by Chinese government
Huawei is a major threat to not just other busineses but also to security aspect as the world moves to 5G technologies.
If all Chinese corporations and Government want to backup Huawei then why not all other Western countires start supporting their own brands?
Japan is asking its private sector companies to keep Huawei out of their power grids and railways:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Japan-moves-to-keep-Huawei-out-of-power-grids-and-railways
Indian Telcos have recently written to India's NSA, expressing grave concern about the potential security threats posed by Huawei telecom equipment:
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/chinas-huawei-poses-threat-to-indias-security-feel-indian-telcos-to-write-to-nsa-ajit-doval-for-redress (quoting the article from Business Standard that's behind a paywall)
The allegations are serious enough that the Indian government is setting up inter-ministerial talks to take a final call on Huawei (second news items on the linked page). These talks will be held before the commercial roll-out of 5G in India.
India may well end up as the great counterweight to China's expansionism in South Asia.
This promotion by Chinese companies is pretty evidently a result of a directive from the Chinese government, which is not happy about the trade war the US administration is trying to wage. Given that a resurgent China is rightfully resentful over a century or more of European and American economic and political exploitation and intervention, a trade war is not likely to help any US company doing business in China.
Chinese companies encouraging employees to Buy Huawei products instead of a rival’s products is no different from American companies encouraging their employees to boycott Apple products and buy rival Android products - as Mark Zuckerberg, CEO of Facebook, is reported to have done, recently.