“If you believe your new iPad Pro does not meet the specifications described in this article, please contact Apple Support. Apple offers a 14-day return policy for products purchased directly from Apple. Apple also provides up to a one-year warranty on our products and will cover damage if it has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship. “
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications? It shouldn’t be up to the customer to determine if something is more or less than 400 microns (assuming they even know what that means). If my 12.9” iPad looked bent it would be taken back to the store, period. No measuring for 400 microns or whatever. Thankfully it’s not. Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
Failing to meet specs would be covered under the warranty as a manufacturing defect. You are accusing Apple of shipping devices that are out of spec and thus defective. Is there any evidence that Apple is doing this or are you just assuming so?
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
The tolerance is less than previous models.
The flat edges show the curve better than could be discerned on previous models.
There is no actual issue. Unless you just want to pretend there is. Free country, spend your time as you wish, I supppse.
There obviously is an issue or Apple wouldn’t be spending any time on support documents like this. The question is how widespread. Probably not very widespread but only Apple knows for sure.
See my comment about perception - that is enough to trigger support documents, even if the issue is not 'real'
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
You really belong with the slimers at MacRumors, not here.
So anyone who thinks Apple dropped the ball or is doing a less-than-stellar job of addressing the subject is a "slimer?"
Does that mean that I'm a "slimer" because I think the keyboard Apple supplied with my five-thousand dollar laptop is not up to the standard I expect from a product in that category?
I actually appreciate others sharing their impressions of how Apple's design decisions affect their use of the product, both positive and negative. I might have been inclined to think the absence of USB-A, ethernet, and HDMI ports was a liability until I saw a rebuttal explaining how every USB-C port can be any of those things. That helped me make an informed buying decision even though the discussion arose out of someone complaining about Apple's design.
If I misunderstood what you meant, I'm open to clarification.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
FWIW, I didn’t think your post was trolling at all.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
You really belong with the slimers at MacRumors, not here.
So anyone who thinks Apple dropped the ball or is doing a less-than-stellar job of addressing the subject is a "slimer?"
Does that mean that I'm a "slimer" because I think the keyboard Apple supplied with my five-thousand dollar laptop is not up to the standard I expect from a product in that category?
I actually appreciate others sharing their impressions of how Apple's design decisions affect their use of the product, both positive and negative. I might have been inclined to think the absence of USB-A, ethernet, and HDMI ports was a liability until I saw a rebuttal explaining how every USB-C port can be any of those things. That helped me make an informed buying decision even though the discussion arose out of someone complaining about Apple's design.
If I misunderstood what you meant, I'm open to clarification.
Yes, @K2kw is a consistent groundless attacker of Apple’s ethics, and in this and probably in other cases, Cook’s. It ain’t funny, and it contributes to mindless Apple hatred to the like-mindless uber cynics out there — his fellow slimers. The reason this site is tolerable or even enjoyable is the relative absence of these characters, in contrast to MacRumors for example.
I doubt whether you think Cook would be so chicken-shit as to tolerate destructive structural defects in order to sell more Apple Care. This was the last straw for me, was for @radarthekat too.
By the way, I have one of those keyboards too. Apple screwed up in real-world testing. It happens, especially on new, potentially great refinements. I like the feel of the keyboard very much. I also vacuum it often, trying not to brush the dust into the cracks between the keys.
“If you believe your new iPad Pro does not meet the specifications described in this article, please contact Apple Support. Apple offers a 14-day return policy for products purchased directly from Apple. Apple also provides up to a one-year warranty on our products and will cover damage if it has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship. “
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications? It shouldn’t be up to the customer to determine if something is more or less than 400 microns (assuming they even know what that means). If my 12.9” iPad looked bent it would be taken back to the store, period. No measuring for 400 microns or whatever. Thankfully it’s not. Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
You seem a little confused about what's going on. First, it is already Apple's policy that if you aren't satisfied with the iPad, for any reason, simply bring it back to the store for replacement. Second, manufacturing doesn't work the way you think it does. There's never been an Apple, or Google or anyone's product that has every single product ship that meets every single specifications nor will there ever be. To do so would require complete hand inspection of every single product to find the rare item that the computer process missed. Can't possibly take the time, nor waste the massive time and money to deal with mass produced products this way. For the tiny amount that have an issue that a consumer gives a hoot about, that's why you have a no questions asked return policy and generous warranty period to allow for the discovery of other defects.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
The tolerance is less than previous models.
The flat edges show the curve better than could be discerned on previous models.
There is no actual issue. Unless you just want to pretend there is. Free country, spend your time as you wish, I supppse.
That might be true. But if a “bend” can be perceived, it’s a design flaw. That is the reality. Sounds like this new construction process has some very unfortunate downsides. You can’t have a precisely designed, highly tooled, jewel like product that for enough items to be noticed, inadvertently offends symmetry.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
What on earth are you talking about? Marketing words? If you, by some rare chance, get a defective unit, exchange it. That isn’t marketing. Nor is stating the specific tolerances which are tighter than previously.
“If you believe your new iPad Pro does not meet the specifications described in this article, please contact Apple Support. Apple offers a 14-day return policy for products purchased directly from Apple. Apple also provides up to a one-year warranty on our products and will cover damage if it has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship. “
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications? It shouldn’t be up to the customer to determine if something is more or less than 400 microns (assuming they even know what that means). If my 12.9” iPad looked bent it would be taken back to the store, period. No measuring for 400 microns or whatever. Thankfully it’s not. Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
Christ you people are impossible. Apple is saying 1) if you think yours is defective, return it. Dur. 2) FYI, our tolerances are tighter than before.
Where is the issue? You’re so predictable in the way you let Verge wind you up.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
The tolerance is less than previous models.
The flat edges show the curve better than could be discerned on previous models.
There is no actual issue. Unless you just want to pretend there is. Free country, spend your time as you wish, I supppse.
There obviously is an issue or Apple wouldn’t be spending any time on support documents like this. The question is how widespread. Probably not very widespread but only Apple knows for sure.
Nonsense logic. Micro-abrasions were likewise a non-issue, but they had to release a support doc for the whiners just the same. You people do it every year.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
FWIW, I didn’t think your post was trolling at all.
Christ you people can’t even follow a discussion threat... Kat’s message was clearly a reply to k2kw. You know, the troll he replied to.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
The tolerance is less than previous models.
The flat edges show the curve better than could be discerned on previous models.
There is no actual issue. Unless you just want to pretend there is. Free country, spend your time as you wish, I supppse.
That might be true. But if a “bend” can be perceived, it’s a design flaw. That is the reality. Sounds like this new construction process has some very unfortunate downsides. You can’t have a precisely designed, highly tooled, jewel like product that for enough items to be noticed, inadvertently offends symmetry.
Another guy who doesn’t understand manufacturing. It’s not a design flaw that nothing is truly straight, but that’s why tolerances are devised. Yet even so, some defects escape the factory because that’s how CE gear works. If you get a defect, which you very likely will not (if you were even buying one anyway, which you arent), then return it. Same as it ever was.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
FWIW, I didn’t think your post was trolling at all.
Christ you people can’t even follow a discussion threat... Kat’s message was clearly a reply to k2kw. You know, the troll he replied to.
I’m going to repeat myself since the image at the top of this thread is also a repeat. The depth-of-field blurring (resulting from a low f-stop setting on the camera) exacerbates the perception that the iPad is bent. The further back you go in the image, the more the device blurs, which looks a little like bending if you’re already looking for bending.
Retake the image with bright lighting and a camera set at f-22, and it’ll look a lot straighter.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
FWIW, I didn’t think your post was trolling at all.
For the record, the post I was asking about, that moderator radarthekat called out, wasn't mine but k2kw's. I only chimed in because I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it and want to understand so i don't also commit whatever offence that one apparently did.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
You really belong with the slimers at MacRumors, not here.
So anyone who thinks Apple dropped the ball or is doing a less-than-stellar job of addressing the subject is a "slimer?"
Does that mean that I'm a "slimer" because I think the keyboard Apple supplied with my five-thousand dollar laptop is not up to the standard I expect from a product in that category?
I actually appreciate others sharing their impressions of how Apple's design decisions affect their use of the product, both positive and negative. I might have been inclined to think the absence of USB-A, ethernet, and HDMI ports was a liability until I saw a rebuttal explaining how every USB-C port can be any of those things. That helped me make an informed buying decision even though the discussion arose out of someone complaining about Apple's design.
If I misunderstood what you meant, I'm open to clarification.
Yes, @K2kw is a consistent groundless attacker of Apple’s ethics, and in this and probably in other cases, Cook’s. It ain’t funny, and it contributes to mindless Apple hatred to the like-mindless uber cynics out there — his fellow slimers. The reason this site is tolerable or even enjoyable is the relative absence of these characters, in contrast to MacRumors for example.
I doubt whether you think Cook would be so chicken-shit as to tolerate destructive structural defects in order to sell more Apple Care. This was the last straw for me, was for @radarthekat too.
By the way, I have one of those keyboards too. Apple screwed up in real-world testing. It happens, especially on new, potentially great refinements. I like the feel of the keyboard very much. I also vacuum it often, trying not to brush the dust into the cracks between the keys.
I understand. I don't share your view of such posts though.
First, it's based on the premise that Apple is ethically above reproach. While there's no question in my mind that the company is leaps and bounds better than most in that regard, I'm not naive enough to believe that it is altruistic. Apple demonstrates social and ecological responsibility because they are consistent with Apple's business plan, which includes cultivating positive public perception. Because it's run by people, and people are fallible, there's no reason to believe Apple will always occupy the high ground. Critical analysis of Apple's actions and speculation about its motives are healthy.
Second, I don't want to participate in an echo chamber. I *want* to read conflicting views and opinions. I want to know where I fit in with the crowd and where I'm an outlier. I want the opportunity to evangelize for the changes that matter to me in the hope of winning converts, thus improving the chances of those changes becoming reality. I want to see other perspectives that may change my point of view, too.
You're right, I don't think Cook is that stupid, but I've been wrong about things so often in my life that I'm now always open to at least considering other points of view. If someone posts something with which I disagree, I'm free to either argue my position or just ignore them. I prefer the odd paranoid rant, annoying as they are, over a forum filled with nothing but "Isn't Apple great?" "Yeah, Apple sure is great!"
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
Take his comment in context of his history. He’s trolling, on every article I’ve seen him on.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
FWIW, I didn’t think your post was trolling at all.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
The tolerance is less than previous models.
The flat edges show the curve better than could be discerned on previous models.
There is no actual issue. Unless you just want to pretend there is. Free country, spend your time as you wish, I supppse.
That might be true. But if a “bend” can be perceived, it’s a design flaw. That is the reality. Sounds like this new construction process has some very unfortunate downsides. You can’t have a precisely designed, highly tooled, jewel like product that for enough items to be noticed, inadvertently offends symmetry.
It's not a design flaw, it's a manufacturing flaw — if the bend is actually greater than the tolerance allowed. As they've already stated, the tolerance is less than previous iPad models — it's just more noticeable in some cases. Either way you can return it if you're not happy with it, just like every other thing they sell which all have their own manufacturing tolerances. Anything that gets out the door that's outside of those limits will be easily replaced by Apple. I really don't see the problem here.
I'd love to see any one of the armchair engineers on here manufacturer ten million of anything and make them all exactly the same.
I’m going to repeat myself since the image at the top of this thread is also a repeat. The depth-of-field blurring (resulting from a low f-stop setting on the camera) exacerbates the perception that the iPad is bent. The further back you go in the image, the more the device blurs, which looks a little like bending if you’re already looking for bending.
Retake the image with bright lighting and a camera set at f-22, and it’ll look a lot straighter.
Yeah this photo is terrible for the purposes of showing a real flaw. Let's see a shot of one of these head on with a ruler against the edge or something for reference.
Comments
Failing to meet specs would be covered under the warranty as a manufacturing defect. You are accusing Apple of shipping devices that are out of spec and thus defective. Is there any evidence that Apple is doing this or are you just assuming so?
See my comment about perception - that is enough to trigger support documents, even if the issue is not 'real'
So anyone who thinks Apple dropped the ball or is doing a less-than-stellar job of addressing the subject is a "slimer?"
Does that mean that I'm a "slimer" because I think the keyboard Apple supplied with my five-thousand dollar laptop is not up to the standard I expect from a product in that category?
I actually appreciate others sharing their impressions of how Apple's design decisions affect their use of the product, both positive and negative. I might have been inclined to think the absence of USB-A, ethernet, and HDMI ports was a liability until I saw a rebuttal explaining how every USB-C port can be any of those things. That helped me make an informed buying decision even though the discussion arose out of someone complaining about Apple's design.
If I misunderstood what you meant, I'm open to clarification.
I doubt whether you think Cook would be so chicken-shit as to tolerate destructive structural defects in order to sell more Apple Care. This was the last straw for me, was for @radarthekat too.
By the way, I have one of those keyboards too. Apple screwed up in real-world testing. It happens, especially on new, potentially great refinements. I like the feel of the keyboard very much. I also vacuum it often, trying not to brush the dust into the cracks between the keys.
Where is the issue? You’re so predictable in the way you let Verge wind you up.
Nonsense logic. Micro-abrasions were likewise a non-issue, but they had to release a support doc for the whiners just the same. You people do it every year.
Another guy who doesn’t understand manufacturing. It’s not a design flaw that nothing is truly straight, but that’s why tolerances are devised. Yet even so, some defects escape the factory because that’s how CE gear works. If you get a defect, which you very likely will not (if you were even buying one anyway, which you arent), then return it. Same as it ever was.
Being a hater evidently hinders reason.
Retake the image with bright lighting and a camera set at f-22, and it’ll look a lot straighter.
I understand. I don't share your view of such posts though.
First, it's based on the premise that Apple is ethically above reproach. While there's no question in my mind that the company is leaps and bounds better than most in that regard, I'm not naive enough to believe that it is altruistic. Apple demonstrates social and ecological responsibility because they are consistent with Apple's business plan, which includes cultivating positive public perception. Because it's run by people, and people are fallible, there's no reason to believe Apple will always occupy the high ground. Critical analysis of Apple's actions and speculation about its motives are healthy.
Second, I don't want to participate in an echo chamber. I *want* to read conflicting views and opinions. I want to know where I fit in with the crowd and where I'm an outlier. I want the opportunity to evangelize for the changes that matter to me in the hope of winning converts, thus improving the chances of those changes becoming reality. I want to see other perspectives that may change my point of view, too.
You're right, I don't think Cook is that stupid, but I've been wrong about things so often in my life that I'm now always open to at least considering other points of view. If someone posts something with which I disagree, I'm free to either argue my position or just ignore them. I prefer the odd paranoid rant, annoying as they are, over a forum filled with nothing but "Isn't Apple great?" "Yeah, Apple sure is great!"
I'd love to see any one of the armchair engineers on here manufacturer ten million of anything and make them all exactly the same.
Yeah this photo is terrible for the purposes of showing a real flaw. Let's see a shot of one of these head on with a ruler against the edge or something for reference.