I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications?
Ah yes, Apple should be held to the same standards as the rest of the companies of the world shipping 100% perfect and flaw-free electronics in the tens of millions every quarter.
Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
There obviously is an issue or Apple wouldn’t be spending any time on support documents like this. The question is how widespread. Probably not very widespread but only Apple knows for sure.
Yeah, "probably not", but let's not let that stop you...
The iPad Pros that are bent do not have a tolerance of 400 microns and shouldn’t be leaving the factory.
No shit, which is why Apple said you can return one if you think you received on in such condition. You can return it within 14 days regardless for any reason at all.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
You really belong with the slimers at MacRumors, not here.
So anyone who thinks Apple dropped the ball or is doing a less-than-stellar job of addressing the subject is a "slimer?"
Does that mean that I'm a "slimer" because I think the keyboard Apple supplied with my five-thousand dollar laptop is not up to the standard I expect from a product in that category?
I actually appreciate others sharing their impressions of how Apple's design decisions affect their use of the product, both positive and negative. I might have been inclined to think the absence of USB-A, ethernet, and HDMI ports was a liability until I saw a rebuttal explaining how every USB-C port can be any of those things. That helped me make an informed buying decision even though the discussion arose out of someone complaining about Apple's design.
If I misunderstood what you meant, I'm open to clarification.
Yes, @K2kw is a consistent groundless attacker of Apple’s ethics, and in this and probably in other cases, Cook’s. It ain’t funny, and it contributes to mindless Apple hatred to the like-mindless uber cynics out there — his fellow slimers. The reason this site is tolerable or even enjoyable is the relative absence of these characters, in contrast to MacRumors for example.
I doubt whether you think Cook would be so chicken-shit as to tolerate destructive structural defects in order to sell more Apple Care. This was the last straw for me, was for @radarthekat too.
By the way, I have one of those keyboards too. Apple screwed up in real-world testing. It happens, especially on new, potentially great refinements. I like the feel of the keyboard very much. I also vacuum it often, trying not to brush the dust into the cracks between the keys.
I understand. I don't share your view of such posts though.
First, it's based on the premise that Apple is ethically above reproach. While there's no question in my mind that the company is leaps and bounds better than most in that regard, I'm not naive enough to believe that it is altruistic. Apple demonstrates social and ecological responsibility because they are consistent with Apple's business plan, which includes cultivating positive public perception. Because it's run by people, and people are fallible, there's no reason to believe Apple will always occupy the high ground. Critical analysis of Apple's actions and speculation about its motives are healthy.
Second, I don't want to participate in an echo chamber. I *want* to read conflicting views and opinions. I want to know where I fit in with the crowd and where I'm an outlier. I want the opportunity to evangelize for the changes that matter to me in the hope of winning converts, thus improving the chances of those changes becoming reality. I want to see other perspectives that may change my point of view, too.
You're right, I don't think Cook is that stupid, but I've been wrong about things so often in my life that I'm now always open to at least considering other points of view. If someone posts something with which I disagree, I'm free to either argue my position or just ignore them. I prefer the odd paranoid rant, annoying as they are, over a forum filled with nothing but "Isn't Apple great?" "Yeah, Apple sure is great!"
Yeah but the whole post was FUD.
"Plastic = cheap POS." Okay genius, which radio-transparent material should they have used for the antenna breaks in this process that would've performed better?
"If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years." = Complete FUD, there's no indication any variances like this in the case would have any measurable effect on a display.
"Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not." — False premise that this is even necessary.
"Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare." — Conspiracy theory bullshit that Tim "Customer Sat" Cook would capitalize on a manufacturing flaw to further milk the customer.
When most of a user's posting history follows this model, it's really hard to argue in favor of the value of their contributions. You seem to want to read the bullshit FUD posts, most of us would rather do without it. Hence the "go to MacRumors" comments to people like that here, given the general quality of content here is far higher than that cesspool.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
The tolerance is less than previous models.
The flat edges show the curve better than could be discerned on previous models.
There is no actual issue. Unless you just want to pretend there is. Free country, spend your time as you wish, I supppse.
That might be true. But if a “bend” can be perceived, it’s a design flaw. That is the reality. Sounds like this new construction process has some very unfortunate downsides. You can’t have a precisely designed, highly tooled, jewel like product that for enough items to be noticed, inadvertently offends symmetry.
It's not a design flaw, it's a manufacturing flaw — if the bend is actually greater than the tolerance allowed. As they've already stated, the tolerance is less than previous iPad models — it's just more noticeable in some cases. Either way you can return it if you're not happy with it, just like every other thing they sell which all have their own manufacturing tolerances. Anything that gets out the door that's outside of those limits will be easily replaced by Apple. I really don't see the problem here.
I'd love to see any one of the armchair engineers on here manufacturer ten million of anything and make them all exactly the same.
No, it isn’t actually bent. The explanation makes that clear that the manufacturing tolerances are actually improved. It is just that in some cases it looks that way because of the antenna alignments and the way they are made. It’s a design issue.
Ie the kind of things Apple buyers get worked up about, but is not relevant to products from any other manufacturer.
I’ve bought six new iPad Pros since they were released including a 12.9” one. Zero of them are bent. Not even a little. I think this is just another “gate” dreamt up to aid those without actual lives in believing they have something meaningful to contribute to society. If it’s a manufacturing issue, they cover it like always. Otherwise, quit complaining. If you don’t want one, don’t buy one and quit flapping your gums.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
You really belong with the slimers at MacRumors, not here.
So anyone who thinks Apple dropped the ball or is doing a less-than-stellar job of addressing the subject is a "slimer?"
Does that mean that I'm a "slimer" because I think the keyboard Apple supplied with my five-thousand dollar laptop is not up to the standard I expect from a product in that category?
I actually appreciate others sharing their impressions of how Apple's design decisions affect their use of the product, both positive and negative. I might have been inclined to think the absence of USB-A, ethernet, and HDMI ports was a liability until I saw a rebuttal explaining how every USB-C port can be any of those things. That helped me make an informed buying decision even though the discussion arose out of someone complaining about Apple's design.
If I misunderstood what you meant, I'm open to clarification.
Yes, @K2kw is a consistent groundless attacker of Apple’s ethics, and in this and probably in other cases, Cook’s. It ain’t funny, and it contributes to mindless Apple hatred to the like-mindless uber cynics out there — his fellow slimers. The reason this site is tolerable or even enjoyable is the relative absence of these characters, in contrast to MacRumors for example.
I doubt whether you think Cook would be so chicken-shit as to tolerate destructive structural defects in order to sell more Apple Care. This was the last straw for me, was for @radarthekat too.
By the way, I have one of those keyboards too. Apple screwed up in real-world testing. It happens, especially on new, potentially great refinements. I like the feel of the keyboard very much. I also vacuum it often, trying not to brush the dust into the cracks between the keys.
Back after a long day. I have bought 3 iPads for myself and 2 for friends. They have been great. I love the 12.9 in. IPadPro I am using now and the split screen enhancements that it has now. Probably will get another one the next generation or the generation after that (when they make more software enhancements to iOS to merit the purchase) but still stand by every thing I said. I’m sure it will be fixed/stiffed next product iteration, but still would be worried about the long term reliability of the affected unit for three or four years. and yeah I do think something has changed at the conscience of Apple.
I’ve bought six new iPad Pros since they were released including a 12.9” one. Zero of them are bent. Not even a little. I think this is just another “gate” dreamt up to aid those without actual lives in believing they have something meaningful to contribute to society. If it’s a manufacturing issue, they cover it like always. Otherwise, quit complaining. If you don’t want one, don’t buy one and quit flapping your gums.
This is one ridiculous post. Six data points means it's not possible that some of these iPads shipped bent. That's laughable.
The 400mics is a red herring. It doesn't matter how tight the the manufacturing tolerances are. 4mics or 400mics, if it ships bent, its wrong.
No doubt Apple is doing/had done something that will prevent the iPads from bending in the cooling off period.
What they should have done is verify the claims and say 'If you're iPad is bent from this manufacturing defect, just bring it in and we'll exchange it.'
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications?
Ah yes, Apple should be held to the same standards as the rest of the companies of the world shipping 100% perfect and flaw-free electronics in the tens of millions every quarter.
Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
There obviously is an issue or Apple wouldn’t be spending any time on support documents like this. The question is how widespread. Probably not very widespread but only Apple knows for sure.
Yeah, "probably not", but let's not let that stop you...
The iPad Pros that are bent do not have a tolerance of 400 microns and shouldn’t be leaving the factory.
No shit, which is why Apple said you can return one if you think you received on in such condition. You can return it within 14 days regardless for any reason at all.
“OUR IPADS DO NOT BEND!” Apple screams to millions in response to the question by a half dozen people.
Assuming this isn’t a widespread issue why the heck is Apple keeping this alive?!? Why is a page like this even necessary? This story was pretty much dead. Now it’s a front page story on all the rumor sites and of course The Verge. Which means it’s probably all over social media too. So right after Apple has to announce a revenue guidance downgrade the Apple discussion is about bent iPads and manufacturing tolerances. I’m sorry but if you’re talking about manufacturing tolerances you’re doing it wrong.
I’ve bought six new iPad Pros since they were released including a 12.9” one. Zero of them are bent. Not even a little. I think this is just another “gate” dreamt up to aid those without actual lives in believing they have something meaningful to contribute to society. If it’s a manufacturing issue, they cover it like always. Otherwise, quit complaining. If you don’t want one, don’t buy one and quit flapping your gums.
As M.G. Siegler says:
M.G. Siegler (@mgsiegler)
1/5/19, 11:02 PM
“OUR IPADS DO NOT BEND!” Apple screams to millions in response to the question by a half dozen people.
M.G. Siegler (@mgsiegler)
1/5/19, 11:02 PM
The self-owns this past week, sheesh...
If you look closely, the iPad isn’t actually bent, is simply the joint, as pointed out by Apple, that gives the impression of a bend. This is similar to the join on a car where your integrated plastic bumper bar meets the metal panel, it’s never perfect. Obviously on such a small device, the join is more obvious. Apple’s closures and transitions are usually the best in the business, so the manufacturing is obviously extremely difficult. Also, we hold Apple to a much higher standard than other companies - if this was Samsung or Huawei, no one would bat an eyelid. Still, I can understand the perplexity of those who expect perfection, even if it less than .4mm out.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
FWIW, I didn’t think your post was trolling at all.
Agreed. I don’t see the post as trolling at all. Seems someone was given a little too much power and it went straight to their head.
I think one of the reasons why this issue has so much traction is not very many people asked for a thinner iPad Pro. They do like the smaller bezel, but I don’t remember seeing a lot of comments about making the device even thinner.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
Take his comment in context of his history. He’s trolling, on every article I’ve seen him on.
Can you provide a link for what are the rules for Posting on the Forum?
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
Trolling is against the commenting rules. Just so you know this is something that’s noticed.
I'm trying to understand so as to govern my own comments appropriately. Are you saying that advising others to avoid a specific model or buy something else is "trolling?" Is it speculating about how Apple Engineering will respond that crosses the line? The sarcastic quip about Cook?
I'm not being contrary here, I'm honestly trying to get my head around what is and isn't allowed here.
Take his comment in context of his history. He’s trolling, on every article I’ve seen him on.
Can you provide a link for what are the rules for Posting on the Forum?
There's a link in the footer of all forum pages titled "Commenting Guidelines." That said, I can't see what rules you've broken and I can't see how disagree with your assessment that Apple makes bad devices simply to up-sell Apple Care is a violation of anything even if I disagree with your assessment.
Well, I doubt that any car ever manufactured has a 400 micron straightness tolerance, or even 4000 microns (4 mm).
He asked if you would accept a bent car. The iPad Pros that are bent do not have a tolerance of 400 microns and shouldn’t be leaving the factory.
Btw, the explanation of “400 microns” is the most dumbass engineer-speak I’ve heard from a consumer products company. I would not have expected such public stupidity from Apple. (Yes, I know they said “three sheets of paper” or some such thing, but per my visualization, that actually seems like a lot).
rogifan_new said:I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications?
That's the point: Apple is telling everyone that they DON'T ship iPad Pros that fail to meet the 400 micron standard. Just because someone posts a photo of a bent frame to the internet doesn't automatically mean that the bending happened during manufacturing.
Exactly. Apple is not saying "we'd like our products to be off by less than .4mm, but we can't be bothered to check, so let us know when we screw up." They are saying "if you believe" that yours is out of spec, let us know.
Also seeing something on the Internet doesn't make it true. It would be insanely easy to bend an iPad slightly to give yourself content for a hot YouTube video. And don't tell me that there aren't thousands of people who are financially motivated to do exactly that.
You can accept marketing words for $1000, or you can not be stupid and return it until you can get one that isn’t bent and doesn’t pop out of the extra $50 to $200 case you want to put it in. Would you accept a bent car they are supposedly developing? That’s not trustworthy to me.
Better to either wait till the next model or buy the 2017 iPP. Plastic = cheap POS. If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years. Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not. Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare.
You really belong with the slimers at MacRumors, not here.
And you belong with the shutdown supporters, all 2 of you.
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications?
Ah yes, Apple should be held to the same standards as the rest of the companies of the world shipping 100% perfect and flaw-free electronics in the tens of millions every quarter.
Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
There obviously is an issue or Apple wouldn’t be spending any time on support documents like this. The question is how widespread. Probably not very widespread but only Apple knows for sure.
Yeah, "probably not", but let's not let that stop you...
The iPad Pros that are bent do not have a tolerance of 400 microns and shouldn’t be leaving the factory.
No shit, which is why Apple said you can return one if you think you received on in such condition. You can return it within 14 days regardless for any reason at all.
“OUR IPADS DO NOT BEND!” Apple screams to millions in response to the question by a half dozen people.
Assuming this isn’t a widespread issue why the heck is Apple keeping this alive?!? Why is a page like this even necessary? This story was pretty much dead. Now it’s a front page story on all the rumor sites and of course The Verge. Which means it’s probably all over social media too. So right after Apple has to announce a revenue guidance downgrade the Apple discussion is about bent iPads and manufacturing tolerances. I’m sorry but if you’re talking about manufacturing tolerances you’re doing it wrong.
Is there something wrong with getting out in front of the story? If they said nothing, you’d be bitching about how they’re not addressing the issue. MG Siegler wrote some clever hyperbole on the Internet, big fucking deal. You know more than a half dozen people were talking about iPadProBendGate or whatever.
I’m sorry but this is ridiculous. How about don’t let products ship that don’t meet specifications?
Ah yes, Apple should be held to the same standards as the rest of the companies of the world shipping 100% perfect and flaw-free electronics in the tens of millions every quarter.
Apple’s response should be simply if you think you have a bent iPad bring it to the store for a replacement. Those who have imperceptible bending won’t notice and everyone else obviously has an iPad that should be replaced.
There obviously is an issue or Apple wouldn’t be spending any time on support documents like this. The question is how widespread. Probably not very widespread but only Apple knows for sure.
Yeah, "probably not", but let's not let that stop you...
The iPad Pros that are bent do not have a tolerance of 400 microns and shouldn’t be leaving the factory.
No shit, which is why Apple said you can return one if you think you received on in such condition. You can return it within 14 days regardless for any reason at all.
“OUR IPADS DO NOT BEND!” Apple screams to millions in response to the question by a half dozen people.
Assuming this isn’t a widespread issue why the heck is Apple keeping this alive?!? Why is a page like this even necessary? This story was pretty much dead. Now it’s a front page story on all the rumor sites and of course The Verge. Which means it’s probably all over social media too. So right after Apple has to announce a revenue guidance downgrade the Apple discussion is about bent iPads and manufacturing tolerances. I’m sorry but if you’re talking about manufacturing tolerances you’re doing it wrong.
Is there something wrong with getting out in front of the story? If they said nothing, you’d be bitching about how they’re not addressing the issue. MG Siegler wrote some clever hyperbole on the Internet, big fucking deal. You know more than a half dozen people were talking about iPadProBendGate or whatever.
Ok but that was what, 2 weeks ago or so? So how is this Apple getting ahead of the story? The story was dying down and now Apple has resurrected it.
Comments
"Plastic = cheap POS." Okay genius, which radio-transparent material should they have used for the antenna breaks in this process that would've performed better?
"If this is bad now what sort of screen problems could these bends cause in two years." = Complete FUD, there's no indication any variances like this in the case would have any measurable effect on a display.
"Is Apple smart enough to drop everything to re-engineer it now, probably not." — False premise that this is even necessary.
"Cook probably sees this as a way to sell more AppleCare." — Conspiracy theory bullshit that Tim "Customer Sat" Cook would capitalize on a manufacturing flaw to further milk the customer.
When most of a user's posting history follows this model, it's really hard to argue in favor of the value of their contributions. You seem to want to read the bullshit FUD posts, most of us would rather do without it. Hence the "go to MacRumors" comments to people like that here, given the general quality of content here is far higher than that cesspool.
Ie the kind of things Apple buyers get worked up about, but is not relevant to products from any other manufacturer.
The 400mics is a red herring. It doesn't matter how tight the the manufacturing tolerances are. 4mics or 400mics, if it ships bent, its wrong.
No doubt Apple is doing/had done something that will prevent the iPads from bending in the cooling off period.
What they should have done is verify the claims and say 'If you're iPad is bent from this manufacturing defect, just bring it in and we'll exchange it.'
The end. No muss, no fuss.
Assuming this isn’t a widespread issue why the heck is Apple keeping this alive?!? Why is a page like this even necessary? This story was pretty much dead. Now it’s a front page story on all the rumor sites and of course The Verge. Which means it’s probably all over social media too. So right after Apple has to announce a revenue guidance downgrade the Apple discussion is about bent iPads and manufacturing tolerances. I’m sorry but if you’re talking about manufacturing tolerances you’re doing it wrong.
M.G. Siegler (@mgsiegler) 1/5/19, 11:02 PM “OUR IPADS DO NOT BEND!” Apple screams to millions in response to the question by a half dozen people.
M.G. Siegler (@mgsiegler) 1/5/19, 11:02 PM The self-owns this past week, sheesh...
Can you provide a link for what are the rules for Posting on the Forum?
Also seeing something on the Internet doesn't make it true. It would be insanely easy to bend an iPad slightly to give yourself content for a hot YouTube video. And don't tell me that there aren't thousands of people who are financially motivated to do exactly that.