Tim Cook says Apple's earnings power is 'probably under-appreciated' in CNBC 'Mad Money' i...

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  • Reply 61 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,969moderator

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.



    This post proves you are nothing but an outright liar.
    Some links:


    In third grade we learned about sets.  Remember?  One of these doesn’t belong with the others?  Stand up, AvonB, and tell the class how Apple lost $452 billion.  Apple had, and still has, about $250 billion in cash.  Was some of that lost?  Did they lose the Apple Park campus?  Which $452 billion did they lose?  And where did it go?    See, this is the reason you attract vitriol (it’s a word that means people don’t like you).  Because you either make up stories or you are too easy to believe the stories others make up.  Don’t worry though, Apple hasn’t lost $452 billion. In fact, even with their drop in revenue this last quarter, they still actually made billions in profits to add to their pile or use to buy back shares and pay dividends.  It’s going to be alright, I promise.   

    Radarthekat - I don't understand why you are attacking Avon B7 for your own assumptions of what he mentioned, rather than what he actually wrote. I can understand the likes of EricthehalfBee, StrangeDays doing it. But not someone being a moderator. You concluded your comment by "It is going to be alright, I promise". Did Avon EVER say that Apple is DOOMED? Nope. NEVER. Even he would say the same thing, if you/anyone asked that question "Is Apple DOOMED?" to him. Just read what he wrote and make your counter arguments on those points.


    What is wrong in mentioning "iPhone needs to be looked at - closely"??? Didn't Apple CEO say that Apple is "MISSING" its OWN guidance in a quarter which has NOT happened for about 60 past quarters? And the reason for that is iPhone sales. Why someone is taking OFFENSE at that statement AND a moderator follows up on that attack for making that statement is beyond me.


    Edit: Do you guys want an "Echo chamber" where Everyone praises whatever Apple does? If so, please let us know explicitly. So far, I have NOT seen such a behavior from moderators of this great forum (the ONLY forum in which I find it worth reading the comments made by forum members). Not in this thread though, which I find it pretty odd.

    I let pass plenty of comments I strongly disagree with, but not when there’s deliberate obtuseness in an attempt to mislead.  Look back at his comment, his link saying Aplle lost $452 billion.  He put that link there, and later denied ever stating an absolute number.  The number itself being beside the point.  Apple did not lose any money.  None.  I’m just correcting his false characterization of stock market valuation as the company actually losing money.  And trying to do so in a manner that will wake him up to reality.
  • Reply 62 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,969moderator

    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.



    This post proves you are nothing but an outright liar.
    Some links:


    In third grade we learned about sets.  Remember?  One of these doesn’t belong with the others?  Stand up, AvonB, and tell the class how Apple lost $452 billion.  Apple had, and still has, about $250 billion in cash.  Was some of that lost?  Did they lose the Apple Park campus?  Which $452 billion did they lose?  And where did it go?    See, this is the reason you attract vitriol (it’s a word that means people don’t like you).  Because you either make up stories or you are too easy to believe the stories others make up.  Don’t worry though, Apple hasn’t lost $452 billion. In fact, even with their drop in revenue this last quarter, they still actually made billions in profits to add to their pile or use to buy back shares and pay dividends.  It’s going to be alright, I promise.   

    Radarthekat - I don't understand why you are attacking Avon B7 for your own assumptions of what he mentioned, rather than what he actually wrote. I can understand the likes of EricthehalfBee, StrangeDays doing it. But not someone being a moderator. You concluded your comment by "It is going to be alright, I promise". Did Avon EVER say that Apple is DOOMED? Nope. NEVER. Even he would say the same thing, if you/anyone asked that question "Is Apple DOOMED?" to him. Just read what he wrote and make your counter arguments on those points.


    What is wrong in mentioning "iPhone needs to be looked at - closely"??? Didn't Apple CEO say that Apple is "MISSING" its OWN guidance in a quarter which has NOT happened for about 60 past quarters? And the reason for that is iPhone sales. Why someone is taking OFFENSE at that statement AND a moderator follows up on that attack for making that statement is beyond me.


    Edit: Do you guys want an "Echo chamber" where Everyone praises whatever Apple does? If so, please let us know explicitly. So far, I have NOT seen such a behavior from moderators of this great forum (the ONLY forum in which I find it worth reading the comments made by forum members). Not in this thread though, which I find it pretty odd.

    Do you think what is happening in China might have had an impact? Do you think that it might be that Apple is the canary in the coal mine wrt a mature smartphone market, now arriving in China? Are you aware that Apple did pretty much as Apple guided that it would elsewhere in the world? Are you aware that the collapse in Chine accelerated in November, and is beginning to look like a negative growth scenario for China's economy?
     
    https://chinachange.org/2018/12/28/a-great-shift-unseen-over-the-last-forty-years/

    You and Avon B7 are quite fond of blaming Apple's pricing for its unit sales woes, but the fact is, most Chinese OEM's have low margins, and high acquisition costs for any growth that they do have. Android OS growth is flat, or worse, worldwide. What do you think will happen in the next years if China continues its low growth rate, and still has trade issues with the West, especially the U.S? Those margins are going to collapse as Chinese OEM's attempt to survive the market collapse. Maybe that will be good for Huawei, seeing consolidation of the Chinese OEM's, but it will also look pretty bad financially.

    The problem with Avon B7 is that he primarily focuses on hardware features in his arguments, poorly I might add, makes broad statements about Huawei financial success as if it is all due to smartphone sales, (Huawei, a "private" company in an autocracy, does in fact, have enterprise and telecom divisions), and generally attempts to portray Apple in as poor light as possible.

    I have attempted in the past to portray Apple as a company that has a broad ecosystem that is the value to the customer, not just the hardware, even though I consider that hardware to be best in class for overall use of the consumer. Those "features" that Android OS devices lead Apple in, is pretty much the same story that Apple has been attacked since the original iPhone, yet Apple always seems to be the device that all others are ultimately compared to.

    Avon B7 likes to portray Huawei as leading in still imaging, by a very small measure, I might add, and behind in 5G, which, for the most part, isn't going to be broadly available for years in most markets, plus fast charging, and battery life. All useful features, but not necessarily deciding factors in a purchase. The fact that Apple has a growing user base, even with extended replacement cycles, and lower unit sales, still assures Apple of the revenue stream that no other smartphone vendor will ever see.

    Frankly, a sufficient reason that I have an iPhone, currently a 7 Plus, is that it is, in my opinion, quite a bit more secure right out of the packaging, something that I wouldn't assume for any other phone save maybe the Pixel. I have mentioned, that I will be most likely purchasing a new iPhone this fall, as well as the next generation iPad Pro, and 5G will not be coming to me in my location for some years, I'm not concerned about current battery life, and I have enough apps for photography, and a DSLR, so that I am not envious of the current generation of smartphone imaging.

    I'm waiting in glee for the results of how the Chinese OEM's deal with lengthening replacement cycles. It should be epic.
    Well that is mostly untrue with regards to me. I am not surprised.

    I have not changed my viewpoint at all in over two years. Not only that, everything I said could happen, largely has happened.

    Sometimes broad statements are necessary to condense things down but I have provided hundreds of links to factual - and - opinion pieces to support my opinion. An opinion that hasn't changed and - with recent developments - is borne out very well.

    I have looked at Apple's iPhone business from many angles and documented its stagnation in the consumer arena. You have insisted on investor related angles that have absolutely nothing to do with the main purchaser of iPhones: consumers.

    I have always made references to Huawei's three core businesses. Logically more weight is given to the consumer division when comparing to Apple's iPhone business.

    You need to rewind a couple of years a take a fresh look at how you and a few others reacted when I predicted that a major competitor (Huawei) was rising from the depths to shake up the smartphone duopoly. I was met with all kinds of scorn, ridicule and laughs. Here we are today, almost three years later and pretty much everything I forecast has actually materialised.

    You and others simply underestimated (and wildly at that) what Huawei was capable of doing. Now you are injecting politics into references of Huawei just as you did yesterday with the Iran claims. Anything to swing attention elsewhere, I suppose.

    No doubt you would also politicise this development too:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2019/01/08/this-huawei-powered-a-i-camera-can-track-and-identify-humans-even-in-a-crowd/#69b9e0c5e7ba
    You’re assuming Hauwei is some kind of success today, validating your predictions.  But it’s not a success in the consumer electronics realm on a scale anywhere near the scale of Apple. You know this and it’s the reason you hang on so tightly to your unit sales mantra.  Argue your case on profits and see how Hauwei measures up.  Now, you may call profits just an investor metric, but profits are what builds the future of a company, funds R&D, facility build outs and let’s a company take on new markets and new competitors.  Unit sales are good metric to measure by if two companies are selling at the same price. Here’s all the mind experiment needed to prove my point.  Imagine if Apple lowered the ASP of iPhones to match Hauwei’s ASP.  Don’t you think they’d sell a whole lot more iPhones than they do now?  Very likely they’d be number one in units sales, by a multiple.   What does that tell you?  
  • Reply 63 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,969moderator

    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.



    This post proves you are nothing but an outright liar.
    Some links:


    In third grade we learned about sets.  Remember?  One of these doesn’t belong with the others?  Stand up, AvonB, and tell the class how Apple lost $452 billion.  Apple had, and still has, about $250 billion in cash.  Was some of that lost?  Did they lose the Apple Park campus?  Which $452 billion did they lose?  And where did it go?    See, this is the reason you attract vitriol (it’s a word that means people don’t like you).  Because you either make up stories or you are too easy to believe the stories others make up.  Don’t worry though, Apple hasn’t lost $452 billion. In fact, even with their drop in revenue this last quarter, they still actually made billions in profits to add to their pile or use to buy back shares and pay dividends.  It’s going to be alright, I promise.   

    Radarthekat - I don't understand why you are attacking Avon B7 for your own assumptions of what he mentioned, rather than what he actually wrote. I can understand the likes of EricthehalfBee, StrangeDays doing it. But not someone being a moderator. You concluded your comment by "It is going to be alright, I promise". Did Avon EVER say that Apple is DOOMED? Nope. NEVER. Even he would say the same thing, if you/anyone asked that question "Is Apple DOOMED?" to him. Just read what he wrote and make your counter arguments on those points.


    What is wrong in mentioning "iPhone needs to be looked at - closely"??? Didn't Apple CEO say that Apple is "MISSING" its OWN guidance in a quarter which has NOT happened for about 60 past quarters? And the reason for that is iPhone sales. Why someone is taking OFFENSE at that statement AND a moderator follows up on that attack for making that statement is beyond me.


    Edit: Do you guys want an "Echo chamber" where Everyone praises whatever Apple does? If so, please let us know explicitly. So far, I have NOT seen such a behavior from moderators of this great forum (the ONLY forum in which I find it worth reading the comments made by forum members). Not in this thread though, which I find it pretty odd.

    Do you think what is happening in China might have had an impact? Do you think that it might be that Apple is the canary in the coal mine wrt a mature smartphone market, now arriving in China? Are you aware that Apple did pretty much as Apple guided that it would elsewhere in the world? Are you aware that the collapse in China accelerated in November, and is beginning to look like a negative growth scenario for China's economy?
     
    https://chinachange.org/2018/12/28/a-great-shift-unseen-over-the-last-forty-years/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46809867
    First slowdown in auto sales in 20 years

    You and Avon B7 are quite fond of blaming Apple's pricing for its unit sales woes, but the fact is, most Chinese OEM's have low margins, and high acquisition costs for any growth that they do have. Android OS growth is flat, or worse, worldwide. What do you think will happen in the next years if China continues its low growth rate, and still has trade issues with the West, especially the U.S? Those margins are going to collapse as Chinese OEM's attempt to survive the market collapse. Maybe that will be good for Huawei, seeing consolidation of the Chinese OEM's, but it will also look pretty bad financially.

    The problem with Avon B7 is that he primarily focuses on hardware features in his arguments, poorly I might add, makes broad statements about Huawei financial success as if it is all due to smartphone sales, (Huawei, a "private" company in an autocracy, does in fact, have enterprise and telecom divisions), and generally attempts to portray Apple in as poor light as possible.

    I have attempted in the past to portray Apple as a company that has a broad ecosystem that is the value to the customer, not just the hardware, even though I consider that hardware to be best in class for overall use of the consumer. Those "features" that Android OS devices lead Apple in, is pretty much the same story that Apple has been attacked since the original iPhone, yet Apple always seems to be the device that all others are ultimately compared to.

    Avon B7 likes to portray Huawei as leading in still imaging, by a very small measure, I might add, and behind in 5G, which, for the most part, isn't going to be broadly available for years in most markets, plus fast charging, and battery life. All useful features, but not necessarily deciding factors in a purchase. The fact that Apple has a growing user base, even with extended replacement cycles, and lower unit sales, still assures Apple of the revenue stream that no other smartphone vendor will ever see.

    Frankly, a sufficient reason that I have an iPhone, currently a 7 Plus, is that it is, in my opinion, quite a bit more secure right out of the packaging, something that I wouldn't assume for any other phone save maybe the Pixel. I have mentioned, that I will be most likely purchasing a new iPhone this fall, as well as the next generation iPad Pro, and 5G will not be coming to me in my location for some years, I'm not concerned about current battery life, and I have enough apps for photography, and a DSLR, so that I am not envious of the current generation of smartphone imaging.

    I'm waiting in glee for the results of how the Chinese OEM's deal with lengthening replacement cycles. It should be epic.
    While I agree with many points that you have written, I still disagree with you on one core point - Pricing. If you think all of the iPhone unit sales reduction YoY is due to China ALONE, please be prepared for a surprise when Apple shares further details in the quarterly results. Reading between the lines, the iPhone unit sales reduction is a worldwide phenomenon, not just limited to China. In China, the drop in unit sales is SEVERE. In the rest of the world, it is still a reduction (may be around 10%), and the trend is NOT looking good. And the ONLY thing that has changed in the last 2 years is - Pricing. Let us wait for more details to be available in another 3 weeks, then discuss about this.
    Oh my goodness, what a terrible thing that Apple has used the last two cycles to discover just how much price inelasticity of demand there is in the iPhone market.  When you do this, you absolutely WILL find the point where a further raise in prices negatively affects revenues.  That’s the point of doing the experiment, to discover the maximum revenue point.  Maybe Apple has intentionally done this discovery, and now they can back off to that optimal set of prices that they may have exceeded.  But the great thing about such market research is, the process itself juices your revenue while it’s underway.  Up until the point you exceed the optimal level.  So if anything, folks should cheer that Apple has pulled in a ton more revenue while optimizing their iPhone pricing over the last two years.  What investor wouldn’t be happy with that?  
  • Reply 64 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,969moderator
    tmay said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.



    This post proves you are nothing but an outright liar.
    Some links:


    In third grade we learned about sets.  Remember?  One of these doesn’t belong with the others?  Stand up, AvonB, and tell the class how Apple lost $452 billion.  Apple had, and still has, about $250 billion in cash.  Was some of that lost?  Did they lose the Apple Park campus?  Which $452 billion did they lose?  And where did it go?    See, this is the reason you attract vitriol (it’s a word that means people don’t like you).  Because you either make up stories or you are too easy to believe the stories others make up.  Don’t worry though, Apple hasn’t lost $452 billion. In fact, even with their drop in revenue this last quarter, they still actually made billions in profits to add to their pile or use to buy back shares and pay dividends.  It’s going to be alright, I promise.   

    Radarthekat - I don't understand why you are attacking Avon B7 for your own assumptions of what he mentioned, rather than what he actually wrote. I can understand the likes of EricthehalfBee, StrangeDays doing it. But not someone being a moderator. You concluded your comment by "It is going to be alright, I promise". Did Avon EVER say that Apple is DOOMED? Nope. NEVER. Even he would say the same thing, if you/anyone asked that question "Is Apple DOOMED?" to him. Just read what he wrote and make your counter arguments on those points.


    What is wrong in mentioning "iPhone needs to be looked at - closely"??? Didn't Apple CEO say that Apple is "MISSING" its OWN guidance in a quarter which has NOT happened for about 60 past quarters? And the reason for that is iPhone sales. Why someone is taking OFFENSE at that statement AND a moderator follows up on that attack for making that statement is beyond me.


    Edit: Do you guys want an "Echo chamber" where Everyone praises whatever Apple does? If so, please let us know explicitly. So far, I have NOT seen such a behavior from moderators of this great forum (the ONLY forum in which I find it worth reading the comments made by forum members). Not in this thread though, which I find it pretty odd.

    Do you think what is happening in China might have had an impact? Do you think that it might be that Apple is the canary in the coal mine wrt a mature smartphone market, now arriving in China? Are you aware that Apple did pretty much as Apple guided that it would elsewhere in the world? Are you aware that the collapse in China accelerated in November, and is beginning to look like a negative growth scenario for China's economy?
     
    https://chinachange.org/2018/12/28/a-great-shift-unseen-over-the-last-forty-years/

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46809867
    First slowdown in auto sales in 20 years

    You and Avon B7 are quite fond of blaming Apple's pricing for its unit sales woes, but the fact is, most Chinese OEM's have low margins, and high acquisition costs for any growth that they do have. Android OS growth is flat, or worse, worldwide. What do you think will happen in the next years if China continues its low growth rate, and still has trade issues with the West, especially the U.S? Those margins are going to collapse as Chinese OEM's attempt to survive the market collapse. Maybe that will be good for Huawei, seeing consolidation of the Chinese OEM's, but it will also look pretty bad financially.

    The problem with Avon B7 is that he primarily focuses on hardware features in his arguments, poorly I might add, makes broad statements about Huawei financial success as if it is all due to smartphone sales, (Huawei, a "private" company in an autocracy, does in fact, have enterprise and telecom divisions), and generally attempts to portray Apple in as poor light as possible.

    I have attempted in the past to portray Apple as a company that has a broad ecosystem that is the value to the customer, not just the hardware, even though I consider that hardware to be best in class for overall use of the consumer. Those "features" that Android OS devices lead Apple in, is pretty much the same story that Apple has been attacked since the original iPhone, yet Apple always seems to be the device that all others are ultimately compared to.

    Avon B7 likes to portray Huawei as leading in still imaging, by a very small measure, I might add, and behind in 5G, which, for the most part, isn't going to be broadly available for years in most markets, plus fast charging, and battery life. All useful features, but not necessarily deciding factors in a purchase. The fact that Apple has a growing user base, even with extended replacement cycles, and lower unit sales, still assures Apple of the revenue stream that no other smartphone vendor will ever see.

    Frankly, a sufficient reason that I have an iPhone, currently a 7 Plus, is that it is, in my opinion, quite a bit more secure right out of the packaging, something that I wouldn't assume for any other phone save maybe the Pixel. I have mentioned, that I will be most likely purchasing a new iPhone this fall, as well as the next generation iPad Pro, and 5G will not be coming to me in my location for some years, I'm not concerned about current battery life, and I have enough apps for photography, and a DSLR, so that I am not envious of the current generation of smartphone imaging.

    I'm waiting in glee for the results of how the Chinese OEM's deal with lengthening replacement cycles. It should be epic.
    While I agree with many points that you have written, I still disagree with you on one core point - Pricing. If you think all of the iPhone unit sales reduction YoY is due to China ALONE, please be prepared for a surprise when Apple shares further details in the quarterly results. Reading between the lines, the iPhone unit sales reduction is a worldwide phenomenon, not just limited to China. In China, the drop in unit sales is SEVERE. In the rest of the world, it is still a reduction (may be around 10%), and the trend is NOT looking good. And the ONLY thing that has changed in the last 2 years is - Pricing. Let us wait for more details to be available in another 3 weeks, then discuss about this.
    I haven't stated that at all, merely that China's economy has in fact declined, and the effect on consumption, especially in luxury goods is pronounced. There are certainly yet unreported sales declines by Chines OEM's that will come to light in the new future as the users keep their Android OS devices longer. Apple is not he only consumer product company that will see revenue losses.

    In the meantime, as per your request, Apple is in fact reducing prices in the Chinese market;

    https://9to5mac.com/2019/01/09/apple-cuts-iphone-production-china/?pushup=1

    "A report from China’s National Business Daily says Chinese iPhone vendors received word yesterday regarding price cuts to iPhone 8, 8 Plus, XR, XS and XS Max.

    The biggest price cut comes to the iPhone XR, which allegedly is seeing a 450 yuan (~$66) discount, bringing the total XR price to 5250 yuan (about $770). Generally though, most iPhones are seeing a 400 yuan (~$59) reduction."

    Seems that Apple is pretty responsive on pricing in China, don't you think?

    As for the rest of the world, I would expect Apple to make only small adjustments in marketing, until at least this fall, when they will bring new models and pricing strategies to the marketplace.

    I would note, that Apple, for all its woes today, is still gaining the bulk of revenues and profits in the marketplace, same as it has been for years.
    I wrote my comment (immediately preceding this one, before reading yours.  I think the two go hand-in-hand.  
  • Reply 65 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member
    avon b7 said:

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.



    This post proves you are nothing but an outright liar.
    Some links:


    In third grade we learned about sets.  Remember?  One of these doesn’t belong with the others?  Stand up, AvonB, and tell the class how Apple lost $452 billion.  Apple had, and still has, about $250 billion in cash.  Was some of that lost?  Did they lose the Apple Park campus?  Which $452 billion did they lose?  And where did it go?    See, this is the reason you attract vitriol (it’s a word that means people don’t like you).  Because you either make up stories or you are too easy to believe the stories others make up.  Don’t worry though, Apple hasn’t lost $452 billion. In fact, even with their drop in revenue this last quarter, they still actually made billions in profits to add to their pile or use to buy back shares and pay dividends.  It’s going to be alright, I promise.   
    Where did I mention $452B?

    I said "40% wiped off company value". I didn't put an absolute dollar value on anything.

    What I gave was information that cannot be labelled as 'lies' in any conceivable way and I provided external links to support it.
    You mentioned it right here...  try reading what you copy and paste.

    http://www.financetwitter.com/2019/01/ouch-apple-has-lost-452-billion-dollar-thats-three-times-size-of-mcdonalds-or-the-entire-facebook.html
    Erm, NO!

    I simply mentioned the percentage point. Then the absolute figure was put onto the table - and not by me - and later I included the link as a supporting link for the percentage point, not for any absolute numbers. Here is the quote from that same link (yes, of course I read it!):

    "Yes, since Oct 3, 2018, the tech giant’s shares have fallen by 39%, when it hit a 52-week high of US$233.47 a share".

    In short. What you are claiming is not true as you should be working from what I wrote, not extracting the wrong information from the supporting link.




    edited January 12
  • Reply 66 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.


    You’re showing your amateurishness.  

    Apple has never competed for unit sales.  Never.  

    Revenue and profits have have grown significantly over the past four years.  Again you focus on the meaningless units sales meme.  Takes your credibility to zero.  ZERO

    The 40% comment really shows you have zero investing chops.  40% was erased from the price of Apple shares. That has zero to do with the ‘value’ of the company.  That you don’t have even this much insight speaks volumes.  I’m going to have to begin talking to you as I would a child.  Yes, that’s exactly how I see you now.

    It’s going to be okay, AvonB.  Don’t worry your mind.  Get your rest, now.  
    I am not an investor. I don't need 'chops'. But even if I were an investor it wouldn't change a thing.

    The facts are the facts and exactly as I presented them.
  • Reply 67 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,309member

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Damage control and totally expected and logical. 

    As usual he will be 'thrilled' to announce Apple's second largest revenue results with so many headwinds in place and that is also logical and expected.

    Company wide things are not bad but iPhone needs to be looked at - closely.



    iPhone needs to be looked at?

    Bullshit.
    Second quarter 2018. Apple got shunted out of second place in world shipments - for the first time since 2010.

    Almost four years of flat sales and now very likely to announce a historic dip in unit sales coinciding with a revenue warning - on its blowout quarter.

    2018 iterative upgrade to iPhone.

    40% wiped off company value in just a few months.

    Company health in general may be good. The iPhone needs to be looked at though. The Chinese iPhone market alone is of such vital strategic importance to Apple that the company formally admitted that any successful ban on iPhone sales in the Chinese market (as a result of QC's legal efforts) would mean Apple having no option to give up the fight against QC.



    This post proves you are nothing but an outright liar.
    Some links:


    In third grade we learned about sets.  Remember?  One of these doesn’t belong with the others?  Stand up, AvonB, and tell the class how Apple lost $452 billion.  Apple had, and still has, about $250 billion in cash.  Was some of that lost?  Did they lose the Apple Park campus?  Which $452 billion did they lose?  And where did it go?    See, this is the reason you attract vitriol (it’s a word that means people don’t like you).  Because you either make up stories or you are too easy to believe the stories others make up.  Don’t worry though, Apple hasn’t lost $452 billion. In fact, even with their drop in revenue this last quarter, they still actually made billions in profits to add to their pile or use to buy back shares and pay dividends.  It’s going to be alright, I promise.   

    Radarthekat - I don't understand why you are attacking Avon B7 for your own assumptions of what he mentioned, rather than what he actually wrote. I can understand the likes of EricthehalfBee, StrangeDays doing it. But not someone being a moderator. You concluded your comment by "It is going to be alright, I promise". Did Avon EVER say that Apple is DOOMED? Nope. NEVER. Even he would say the same thing, if you/anyone asked that question "Is Apple DOOMED?" to him. Just read what he wrote and make your counter arguments on those points.


    What is wrong in mentioning "iPhone needs to be looked at - closely"??? Didn't Apple CEO say that Apple is "MISSING" its OWN guidance in a quarter which has NOT happened for about 60 past quarters? And the reason for that is iPhone sales. Why someone is taking OFFENSE at that statement AND a moderator follows up on that attack for making that statement is beyond me.


    Edit: Do you guys want an "Echo chamber" where Everyone praises whatever Apple does? If so, please let us know explicitly. So far, I have NOT seen such a behavior from moderators of this great forum (the ONLY forum in which I find it worth reading the comments made by forum members). Not in this thread though, which I find it pretty odd.

    I let pass plenty of comments I strongly disagree with, but not when there’s deliberate obtuseness in an attempt to mislead.  Look back at his comment, his link saying Aplle lost $452 billion.  He put that link there, and later denied ever stating an absolute number.  The number itself being beside the point.  Apple did not lose any money.  None.  I’m just correcting his false characterization of stock market valuation as the company actually losing money.  And trying to do so in a manner that will wake him up to reality.
    Once again. I did not state an absolute number. You came in with that, not me.

    The link I gave later, (after being called a liar, no less) is to highlight the percentage number. The fact that the linked article also mentions an absolute number is completely irrelevant to any comments of mine. If you have issues with that, take it up with the author of the article!

    As for 'deliberate obtuseness in an attempt to mislead', that is another wholly unwarranted accusation!

    The facts are the facts. No lies. No obtuseness. Just facts, as supported by the links provided.


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