Samsung seeks to buy Corephotonics, firm suing Apple over iPhone camera tech

Posted:
in iPhone
Samsung is reportedly nearing a deal to acquire Israeli firm Corephotonics, a firm specializing in smartphone camera technology that's currently embroiled in a legal battle with Apple.

iPhone X


The deal could be worth $150 million to $160 million, according to Israel's Globes. Samsung Ventures is already a key investor in Corephotonics, alongside other parties such as MediaTek and Apple assembly partner Foxconn.

Corephotonics has lodged multiple lawsuits against Apple, claiming that the dual-lens camera systems in the iPhone 7 Plus, 8 Plus, and iPhone X infringe on patented concepts. Specifically these cover dual-aperture, fixed focal length systems that enable expanded zoom, along with supporting software algorithms.

Apple executives and engineers allegedly met with Corephotonics staff as far back as 2012, reviewing the company's intellectual property at the time. In the following months Apple allegedly sent various hardware and software teams to Corephotonics' headquarters in Tel Aviv to examine prototype components and learn about optical processing methods, as well as to discuss partnership opportunities.

In June 2014 Apple expressed interest in licensing Corephotonics' algorithms and set up a meeting to discuss a business deal, according to filings. Following that, Apple requested access to a prototype telephoto lens, suggesting the companies could collaborate on hardware design.

Negotiations were halted in August 2014, though technical discussions continued between Apple and Corephotonics engineering teams for a few weeks. The communication lull continued until 2016, when Corephotonics reached out to a "high level hardware executive" offering to discuss collaboration on future smartphone projects.

Following yet another meeting, Apple again expressed interest in formalizing a business agreement and requested information regarding IP licensing. That was in August 2016, one month prior to the debut of the iPhone 7 Plus. By October, negotiations had again cooled and two subsequent meetings relating to potential licensing agreements bore no fruit.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 20
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    edited January 2019 jbdragondewmewatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 20
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 2,241member
    I think the patent system is flawed.

    Person A comes up with an idea, and patents it.
    Person B comes up with the same idea, with no knowledge of Person A or their work.
    Person B now owes money to Person A for that same idea.

    Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems flawed to me. There should be some way to allow ideas to be fully owned by their creators without a first-come-first-served model. Yet the patent industry positions the above as "stealing", which it isn't.
    cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 20
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    SpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 20
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    I think the patent system is flawed.

    Person A comes up with an idea, and patents it.
    Person B comes up with the same idea, with no knowledge of Person A or their work.
    Person B now owes money to Person A for that same idea.

    Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems flawed to me. There should be some way to allow ideas to be fully owned by their creators without a first-come-first-served model. Yet the patent industry positions the above as "stealing", which it isn't.
    You can’t patent an idea. You can only patent the expression of an idea as embodied in either a process, or a mechanical or electronic product. Software are processes, as are chemical processes, as examples.

    The flaw in your reasoning is that all patents are available for review. You hire a patent attorney specializing in the area of your invention, who checks to see whether something very similar has already been patented, or is in the process. If you don’t do this, then it’s entirely your fault. Occasionally, a patent is missed in the review process. It happens as nothing is perfect.

    it is stealing. What you want won’t work. How many people can look up a patent, and with your reasoning, take it as their own, while claiming they came up with it too? It’s not “the patent industry”. It’s the Constitution.
    cornchipSpamSandwichradarthekatacejax805muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 20
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    At $150M a pop you two really think that it makes business sense for Apple to "buy up these little troublesome companies" when anyone has a patent issue against the company? I can't even fathom how you two think that makes business sense.


    PS: Were either or you for Apple making the hugely successful Beats acquisition?
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 20
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Soli said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    At $150M a pop you two really think that it makes business sense for Apple to "buy up these little troublesome companies" when anyone has a patent issue against the company? I can't even fathom how you two think that makes business sense.


    PS: Were either or you for Apple making the hugely successful Beats acquisition?
    There rare times, lime this one, when it surely looks as though Apple used their patents. It’s not the first time. It would just be better, when Apple is in a discussion about using a technology with a small company, to just buy them. How much time and mo eh does Apple spend in defend against these things gs> Apple has lost hundreds of millions on a number of cases, a coup,e right now, in fact. In the long run, they should have just worked out a deal and bought them.

    I was for them buying Beats. It was a good deal.
    edited January 2019 SpamSandwichradarthekatmuthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 20
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,213member
    The deal is already done according to another report, and for $150M. No comment yet from Samsung as to whether they will allow Oppo, a current hardware customer of Corephotonics, to continue to buy from them, nor what the status will be of the IP lawsuit previously filed against Apple 
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/samsung-said-to-acquire-israels-phone-camera-startup-corephotonics/
    edited January 2019 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 8 of 20
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    I think the patent system is flawed.

    Person A comes up with an idea, and patents it.
    Person B comes up with the same idea, with no knowledge of Person A or their work.
    Person B now owes money to Person A for that same idea.

    Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems flawed to me. There should be some way to allow ideas to be fully owned by their creators without a first-come-first-served model. Yet the patent industry positions the above as "stealing", which it isn't.
    Actually that is what it boils down to, so it not that overly simplified. 

    However, what you describe as the alternate solution to the US patent system is what is going on in China, anyone is allow to capitalize on a concept or idea and the company who does it best wins, no one gets a 19 yr free lunch. But you do not ever want to be the guy with all the new ideas and no capital to turn the idea into a product.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 20
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    Terrible idea. 

    The number of lawsuits would double overnight, and they’d be left with a ton of companies they have no use for. 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 20
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    melgross said:
    Soli said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    At $150M a pop you two really think that it makes business sense for Apple to "buy up these little troublesome companies" when anyone has a patent issue against the company? I can't even fathom how you two think that makes business sense.


    PS: Were either or you for Apple making the hugely successful Beats acquisition?
    There rare times, lime this one, when it surely looks as though Apple used their patents. It’s not the first time. It would just be better, when Apple is in a discussion about using a technology with a small company, to just buy them. How much time and mo eh does Apple spend in defend against these things gs> Apple has lost hundreds of millions on a number of cases, a coup,e right now, in fact. In the long run, they should have just worked out a deal and bought them.

    I was for them buying Beats. It was a good deal.
    There may be rare times and I can easily see an argument for stating that Apple should've bought this company rather than going to court (and even arguments for risking going to court over buying a startup, but purely from an economic standpoint, not an ethical one), but these are all just what-if statements and usually in hindsight.

    I understand when others make claims that Apple hasn't done their due diligence in determining what they believe is the path of least cost, but you've owned successful businesses for a long time so you have to know that Apple is running the numbers through countless bean counters and across multiple metrics to which we're not privy to determine that risking a drawn-out lawsuit is the best course of action.

    Personally, I hate when Apple is caught up in what looks like direct stealing of legitimate claims by a small, non-trollish company, and I'd personally love to see Apple absorb these smaller companies because they recognize their innovation, but I don't run the company so it's just a pipe dream and not a claim as to what will make the company more wealthy even if I may argue that being ethical can a longterm, positive effect on sales.
    edited January 2019 radarthekat
  • Reply 11 of 20
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,069member
    I think the patent system is flawed.

    Person A comes up with an idea, and patents it.
    Person B comes up with the same idea, with no knowledge of Person A or their work.
    Person B now owes money to Person A for that same idea.

    Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems flawed to me. There should be some way to allow ideas to be fully owned by their creators without a first-come-first-served model. Yet the patent industry positions the above as "stealing", which it isn't.
    For example, they both apply for patents & have to show in detail how that idea should be implemented.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 20
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,311member
    Soli said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    At $150M a pop you two really think that it makes business sense for Apple to "buy up these little troublesome companies" when anyone has a patent issue against the company? I can't even fathom how you two think that makes business sense.


    PS: Were either or you for Apple making the hugely successful Beats acquisition?
    Well if Apple went there and was as the Narrative is being told, I think Apple is going to lose the case. In this case it may have been wiser for Apple to just acquire them. For Apple it's pocket change. In fact it may have been cheaper to acquire them, back then, than what Apple in the end may be forced to pay out now for these patents. Now Apple will be dealing with Samesung which has lots of money for a big trial to go after Apple.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 20
    Samsung got tired of filing their own lawsuits, now they're in the business of acquiring companies with existing lawsuits against Apple. /s
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 20
    If the timeline laid out in this narrative is accurate, it's fairly damning evidence.  Not proof, just evidence.  It seems odd to me that a company like Apple would be so blatant about it, which kind makes me think there's more going on than meets the eye. After all, who spends four years discussing something and then basically says, "Uh, never mind.  We don't, uh, really need that technology after all."

    Mind you, I don't know what else might be going on, it just seems like moderately un-Apple-ish behavior.  Or maybe I'm just naive.
    muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 20
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Rayz2016 said:
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    Terrible idea. 

    The number of lawsuits would double overnight, and they’d be left with a ton of companies they have no use for. 

    Read my other post. You’re oversimplifying.
  • Reply 16 of 20
    It is just as likely that Apple thought that their solution was different enough from the patent so as to not infringe. Just hope there is a good enough argument to show that is the case in front of a judge if needed.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 20
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member

    Soli said:
    melgross said:
    Soli said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    melgross said:
    Y’know... Apple could easily buy up these little troublesome companies and avoid getting cornered by Samsung idiots.
    I don’t get it. $150 million, if that’s the right number, is pocket change to Apple. They seem constitutionally unable to do that. They buy small companies they don’t have issues with. It’s the companies they do have issues with that they should be buying.
    At $150M a pop you two really think that it makes business sense for Apple to "buy up these little troublesome companies" when anyone has a patent issue against the company? I can't even fathom how you two think that makes business sense.


    PS: Were either or you for Apple making the hugely successful Beats acquisition?
    There rare times, lime this one, when it surely looks as though Apple used their patents. It’s not the first time. It would just be better, when Apple is in a discussion about using a technology with a small company, to just buy them. How much time and mo eh does Apple spend in defend against these things gs> Apple has lost hundreds of millions on a number of cases, a coup,e right now, in fact. In the long run, they should have just worked out a deal and bought them.

    I was for them buying Beats. It was a good deal.
    There may be rare times and I can easily see an argument for stating that Apple should've bought this company rather than going to court (and even arguments for risking going to court over buying a startup, but purely from an economic standpoint, not an ethical one), but these are all just what-if statements and usually in hindsight.

    I understand when others make claims that Apple hasn't done their due diligence in determining what they believe is the path of least cost, but you've owned successful businesses for a long time so you have to know that Apple is running the numbers through countless bean counters and across multiple metrics to which we're not privy to determine that risking a drawn-out lawsuit is the best course of action.

    Personally, I hate when Apple is caught up in what looks like direct stealing of legitimate claims by a small, non-trollish company, and I'd personally love to see Apple absorb these smaller companies because they recognize their innovation, but I don't run the company so it's just a pipe dream and not a claim as to what will make the company more wealthy even if I may argue that being ethical can a longterm, positive effect on sales.
    I remember when a bunch of us were arguing about how Apple’s cash (it was just around $35 billion then) was going to burn a hole in their pocket. Obviously, it didn’t. Instead they now throw it away on stock buybacks. That’s about $120 billion thrown away. So $150 million is nothing.

    well, we don’t yet know if the lawsuit is justified. Most of the time, Apple wins the suit. A problem is also, and I can state this from my own experience, that you can be working on something, find that someone else is too, and that they have a patent. You look at it, and you believe that it doesn’t cover what your work is. So sometimes, you negotiate, and it goes nowhere. If your patent guys don’t think it’s an issue, you proceed. Sometimes, they’re wrong, and there’s a suit. Sometimes, they’re right, and there’s a suit. Sometimes the patents are invalidated during the suit.

    its not that simple.
    edited January 2019
  • Reply 18 of 20
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    In regards to my last post about patents being invalidated, Germany has just invalidated Qualcomm’s patents used in their lawsuit against Apple. This has become more common with the new rules.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 20
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 5,043member
    mac_dog said:
    I think the patent system is flawed.

    Person A comes up with an idea, and patents it.
    Person B comes up with the same idea, with no knowledge of Person A or their work.
    Person B now owes money to Person A for that same idea.

    Maybe I'm oversimplifying it, but that seems flawed to me. There should be some way to allow ideas to be fully owned by their creators without a first-come-first-served model. Yet the patent industry positions the above as "stealing", which it isn't.
    For example, they both apply for patents & have to show in detail how that idea should be implemented.
    Actually, they both can apply and be granted the IP but only the one who can demonstrate it in an actual marketable product gets the protection on the idea. There are lots of ideas out there, many time the person with the idea have not idea how to commercialize it or even how to implement.
Sign In or Register to comment.