Apple to lower iPhone pricing in key markets after sluggish December quarter

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 41
    anome said:
    I hope (but don't really expect) that this includes places like Australia, where changes in the exchange rate have forced the price up. You complain about US$1000 phones? Try A$2000. Sure. after taking into account the exchange rate and sales tax it works out about the same, but there's still a psychological barrier to contend with. Despite being a relatively affluent nation, we aren't that affluent.
    The real comparison is what else that 2,000 AUD would buy for you versus what 1,000 USD will buy for me.

    For instance:
    My wife and I could go out to dinner, at a nice, sit-down restaurant, roughly 200 times.
    I can buy roughly 8-10 weeks worth of groceries for my wife and myself.
    I can buy roughly 500 gallons of gasoline (at the current approximate $2.00 per gallon)
    My wife and I could see over 20 first run movies in a reservation based theater with reclining seats.
    I could eat a breakfast of two sandwiches at McDonald's every day for almost 6 months.
    I could spend a week and a half in a 2-3 star hotel.
    I could buy a 2019 top of the line Toyota Prius with a 0% note and pay it off in a little less than three years at $1,000 per month.


  • Reply 22 of 41
    @anome ;
    I hope (but don't really expect) that this includes places like Australia, where changes in the exchange rate have forced the price up. You complain about US$1000 phones? Try A$2000. Sure. after taking into account the exchange rate and sales tax it works out about the same, but there's still a psychological barrier to contend with. Despite being a relatively affluent nation, we aren't that affluent.

    If it works out to be about the same, then what's the psychological barrier? Because 2 is higher than 1? I don't understand direct numbers to numbers comparisons between markets, if A$2000 is the roughly the same as USD$1000.
    Because Australians are being paid in AU dollars not US dollars...
    anome
  • Reply 23 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
  • Reply 24 of 41
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,123member
    hucom2000 said:
    Start of the end for Apple!
    Remember how Nokia reacted to downfall in sales but eventually it didn’t work?
     :D 

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not claiming that things are going well for Apple. The current lack of true innovation (sorry Tim) combined with insane pricing ideas (sorry Tim) certainly is a recipe for disaster.

    However, Apple has a very strong foothold with iOS in the enterprise now. That too won't carry them forever, but they have time to make adjustments. No need to dramatize things.

    The problem I see is that they didn't do price adjustments preemptively. Once a company has the public image of selling overpriced products, it's difficult to shake that. That will take time and damage to Apple's reputation has been done, I fear.
    Unfortunately our very large company is in the process of slowly switching to Android. Cost was undoubtedly a huge factor.

    3 years ago they went all in on Apple with the iPhone SE (after running a mix of Android and iOS for a couple of years) and also deployed hundreds of iPads for senior management.

    But with the demise of the iPhone SE, which really was the perfect corporate phone, they have started the move to Android. 

    It’s insane that Apple effectively dumped the corporate market that they’d worked so hard to get into.
    edited January 30 watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 41
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,288member
    I would “advice” not to buy, untill the price is right.
  • Reply 26 of 41
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
    Your primary reason for not purchasing an iPhone is iOS, so price is secondary; that's my answer to your question. You value the features that you can gain from Android OS that you get over what the iPhone provides as you consider that better value. Your wife had a preference for iPhone and iOS, and you purchased when the price became feasible. Obviously, your wife had input into this, and considered that purchase the better value.

    As for your note that sales were due to "precisely the promotions I took advantage of", I'm not seeing that as even an issue. Every Android OS OEM also has "promotions' yet we don't credit that with increased sales. Sales are sales, and Apple gets to return those device back into service as refurbished units.

    I noted to you once that Huawei had a huge increase, 39% for the Quarter, in Europe, yet only had a revenue increase of 1.7%. Sounds like s lot of promotions.

    edited January 30 watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
    Your primary reason for not purchasing an iPhone is iOS, so price is secondary; that's my answer to your question. You value the features that you can gain from Android OS that you get over what the iPhone provides as you consider that better value. Your wife had a preference for iPhone and iOS, and you purchased when the price became feasible. Obviously, your wife had input into this, and considered that purchase the better value.

    As for your note that sales were due to "precisely the promotions I took advantage of", I'm not seeing that as even an issue. Every Android OS OEM also has "promotions' yet we don't credit that with increased sales. Sales are sales, and Apple gets to return those device back into service as refurbished units.

    I noted to you once that Huawei had a huge increase, 39% for the Quarter, in Europe, yet only had a revenue increase of 1.7%. Sounds like s lot of promotions.

    My primary reason for switching was price. I couldn't afford an iPhone (in reality two, as my wife had one too). And as Apple was in the habit of playing 'upsell games' I couldn't even get the capacity on the model I wanted.

    Until I actually switched I hadn't even used an Android phone.

    None of the issues I was told I would have actually raised their nasty heads.

    It was like a breath of fresh air to be freed from the constraints of iOS. I work in multilingual environments and back then being able to use multiple languages from the same keyboard was a godsend. Taking screenshots with two knuckle taps on the screen, fingerprint sensor gestures etc Everywhere I turned I found something new the system could do - but iOS couldn't.

    More importantly, the discovery of those features was layered so you never got the feeling you were facing an avalanche of options.

    Huawei's consumer group revenues actually broke records for 2018. Promotions are good for the consumer! Win, win don't you think?

    One tidbit that flashed up on screen during the Balong 5000 release (and I still want to confirm) is that Huawei's Hi-Link protocol is currently used on around 10,000 devices.

    The 5G router they presented is clearly designed for IoT and laying the foundation for what Huawei is calling device sensing. We'll see how that one plays out.

    We now have the iPhone cards played and they won't change until the end of this year. Competition will now ramp up for MWC (less than a month from now) and Apple will be affected if it ends those time limited trade-in deals or doesn't adjust prices enough.
  • Reply 28 of 41
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
    Your primary reason for not purchasing an iPhone is iOS, so price is secondary; that's my answer to your question. You value the features that you can gain from Android OS that you get over what the iPhone provides as you consider that better value. Your wife had a preference for iPhone and iOS, and you purchased when the price became feasible. Obviously, your wife had input into this, and considered that purchase the better value.

    As for your note that sales were due to "precisely the promotions I took advantage of", I'm not seeing that as even an issue. Every Android OS OEM also has "promotions' yet we don't credit that with increased sales. Sales are sales, and Apple gets to return those device back into service as refurbished units.

    I noted to you once that Huawei had a huge increase, 39% for the Quarter, in Europe, yet only had a revenue increase of 1.7%. Sounds like s lot of promotions.

    My primary reason for switching was price. I couldn't afford an iPhone (in reality two, as my wife had one too). And as Apple was in the habit of playing 'upsell games' I couldn't even get the capacity on the model I wanted.

    Until I actually switched I hadn't even used an Android phone.

    None of the issues I was told I would have actually raised their nasty heads.

    It was like a breath of fresh air to be freed from the constraints of iOS. I work in multilingual environments and back then being able to use multiple languages from the same keyboard was a godsend. Taking screenshots with two knuckle taps on the screen, fingerprint sensor gestures etc Everywhere I turned I found something new the system could do - but iOS couldn't.

    More importantly, the discovery of those features was layered so you never got the feeling you were facing an avalanche of options.

    Huawei's consumer group revenues actually broke records for 2018. Promotions are good for the consumer! Win, win don't you think?

    One tidbit that flashed up on screen during the Balong 5000 release (and I still want to confirm) is that Huawei's Hi-Link protocol is currently used on around 10,000 devices.

    The 5G router they presented is clearly designed for IoT and laying the foundation for what Huawei is calling device sensing. We'll see how that one plays out.

    We now have the iPhone cards played and they won't change until the end of this year. Competition will now ramp up for MWC (less than a month from now) and Apple will be affected if it ends those time limited trade-in deals or doesn't adjust prices enough.
    Sure, your primary concern was price, but how long ago was it that you switched? My point is that you haven't been in the market for an iPhone for quite some time, as you are now firmly in the Android OS camp. Why would you even state that you still "consider" an iPhone at this point in time? By your own statements above, it isn't accurate. I reiterate; your wife chose the iPhone XR.

    Apple is already making adjustments, and has a widening ecosystem that will pretty much insulate them from the collapsing smartphone market, which Huawei will have to face itself in the near future after the consolidation of the Android OS device market. For all I know, Huawei may end up on top, but I don't doubt that it will require a substantial cost in acquisition, ie, competition on price. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 41
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,722member
    hentaiboy said:
    @anome ;
    I hope (but don't really expect) that this includes places like Australia, where changes in the exchange rate have forced the price up. You complain about US$1000 phones? Try A$2000. Sure. after taking into account the exchange rate and sales tax it works out about the same, but there's still a psychological barrier to contend with. Despite being a relatively affluent nation, we aren't that affluent.

    If it works out to be about the same, then what's the psychological barrier? Because 2 is higher than 1? I don't understand direct numbers to numbers comparisons between markets, if A$2000 is the roughly the same as USD$1000.
    Because Australians are being paid in AU dollars not US dollars...
    Huh? No shit. 
  • Reply 30 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
    Your primary reason for not purchasing an iPhone is iOS, so price is secondary; that's my answer to your question. You value the features that you can gain from Android OS that you get over what the iPhone provides as you consider that better value. Your wife had a preference for iPhone and iOS, and you purchased when the price became feasible. Obviously, your wife had input into this, and considered that purchase the better value.

    As for your note that sales were due to "precisely the promotions I took advantage of", I'm not seeing that as even an issue. Every Android OS OEM also has "promotions' yet we don't credit that with increased sales. Sales are sales, and Apple gets to return those device back into service as refurbished units.

    I noted to you once that Huawei had a huge increase, 39% for the Quarter, in Europe, yet only had a revenue increase of 1.7%. Sounds like s lot of promotions.

    My primary reason for switching was price. I couldn't afford an iPhone (in reality two, as my wife had one too). And as Apple was in the habit of playing 'upsell games' I couldn't even get the capacity on the model I wanted.

    Until I actually switched I hadn't even used an Android phone.

    None of the issues I was told I would have actually raised their nasty heads.

    It was like a breath of fresh air to be freed from the constraints of iOS. I work in multilingual environments and back then being able to use multiple languages from the same keyboard was a godsend. Taking screenshots with two knuckle taps on the screen, fingerprint sensor gestures etc Everywhere I turned I found something new the system could do - but iOS couldn't.

    More importantly, the discovery of those features was layered so you never got the feeling you were facing an avalanche of options.

    Huawei's consumer group revenues actually broke records for 2018. Promotions are good for the consumer! Win, win don't you think?

    One tidbit that flashed up on screen during the Balong 5000 release (and I still want to confirm) is that Huawei's Hi-Link protocol is currently used on around 10,000 devices.

    The 5G router they presented is clearly designed for IoT and laying the foundation for what Huawei is calling device sensing. We'll see how that one plays out.

    We now have the iPhone cards played and they won't change until the end of this year. Competition will now ramp up for MWC (less than a month from now) and Apple will be affected if it ends those time limited trade-in deals or doesn't adjust prices enough.
    Sure, your primary concern was price, but how long ago was it that you switched? My point is that you haven't been in the market for an iPhone for quite some time, as you are now firmly in the Android OS camp. Why would you even state that you still "consider" an iPhone at this point in time? By your own statements above, it isn't accurate. I reiterate; your wife chose the iPhone XR.

    Apple is already making adjustments, and has a widening ecosystem that will pretty much insulate them from the collapsing smartphone market, which Huawei will have to face itself in the near future after the consolidation of the Android OS device market. For all I know, Huawei may end up on top, but I don't doubt that it will require a substantial cost in acquisition, ie, competition on price. 


    I say I am 'considering' because I am (or was). Without my go ahead there is no sale because I am paying. My wife could have held on for another year. We even cancelled the iPhone purchase this year and bought something else. If she now has one it is down to me.

    'Competition on price'? Yes, music to my ears. And competition on hardware, too.

    If manufacturers make a profit in the process it is win/win.
  • Reply 31 of 41
    anomeanome Posts: 1,266member
    hentaiboy said:
    @anome ;
    I hope (but don't really expect) that this includes places like Australia, where changes in the exchange rate have forced the price up. You complain about US$1000 phones? Try A$2000. Sure. after taking into account the exchange rate and sales tax it works out about the same, but there's still a psychological barrier to contend with. Despite being a relatively affluent nation, we aren't that affluent.

    If it works out to be about the same, then what's the psychological barrier? Because 2 is higher than 1? I don't understand direct numbers to numbers comparisons between markets, if A$2000 is the roughly the same as USD$1000.
    Because Australians are being paid in AU dollars not US dollars...
    Also, the psychological impact of the price is based on the number, not necessarily the value. So there are barriers at 1000 and 2000 regardless the units. So what looks more daunting, a $760 phone, or a $1000 phone? A $1000 phone or a $2000 phone? Keep in mind most people don't do on the fly conversions from US$ to A$ to compare prices.
  • Reply 32 of 41
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,669member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
    Your primary reason for not purchasing an iPhone is iOS, so price is secondary; that's my answer to your question. You value the features that you can gain from Android OS that you get over what the iPhone provides as you consider that better value. Your wife had a preference for iPhone and iOS, and you purchased when the price became feasible. Obviously, your wife had input into this, and considered that purchase the better value.

    As for your note that sales were due to "precisely the promotions I took advantage of", I'm not seeing that as even an issue. Every Android OS OEM also has "promotions' yet we don't credit that with increased sales. Sales are sales, and Apple gets to return those device back into service as refurbished units.

    I noted to you once that Huawei had a huge increase, 39% for the Quarter, in Europe, yet only had a revenue increase of 1.7%. Sounds like s lot of promotions.

    My primary reason for switching was price. I couldn't afford an iPhone (in reality two, as my wife had one too). And as Apple was in the habit of playing 'upsell games' I couldn't even get the capacity on the model I wanted.

    Until I actually switched I hadn't even used an Android phone.

    None of the issues I was told I would have actually raised their nasty heads.

    It was like a breath of fresh air to be freed from the constraints of iOS. I work in multilingual environments and back then being able to use multiple languages from the same keyboard was a godsend. Taking screenshots with two knuckle taps on the screen, fingerprint sensor gestures etc Everywhere I turned I found something new the system could do - but iOS couldn't.

    More importantly, the discovery of those features was layered so you never got the feeling you were facing an avalanche of options.

    Huawei's consumer group revenues actually broke records for 2018. Promotions are good for the consumer! Win, win don't you think?

    One tidbit that flashed up on screen during the Balong 5000 release (and I still want to confirm) is that Huawei's Hi-Link protocol is currently used on around 10,000 devices.

    The 5G router they presented is clearly designed for IoT and laying the foundation for what Huawei is calling device sensing. We'll see how that one plays out.

    We now have the iPhone cards played and they won't change until the end of this year. Competition will now ramp up for MWC (less than a month from now) and Apple will be affected if it ends those time limited trade-in deals or doesn't adjust prices enough.
    Sure, your primary concern was price, but how long ago was it that you switched? My point is that you haven't been in the market for an iPhone for quite some time, as you are now firmly in the Android OS camp. Why would you even state that you still "consider" an iPhone at this point in time? By your own statements above, it isn't accurate. I reiterate; your wife chose the iPhone XR.

    Apple is already making adjustments, and has a widening ecosystem that will pretty much insulate them from the collapsing smartphone market, which Huawei will have to face itself in the near future after the consolidation of the Android OS device market. For all I know, Huawei may end up on top, but I don't doubt that it will require a substantial cost in acquisition, ie, competition on price. 


    I say I am 'considering' because I am (or was). Without my go ahead there is no sale because I am paying. My wife could have held on for another year. We even cancelled the iPhone purchase this year and bought something else. If she now has one it is down to me.

    'Competition on price'? Yes, music to my ears. And competition on hardware, too.

    If manufacturers make a profit in the process it is win/win.
    Only you, Avon B7, would not want to acknowledge that your wife had any choice in what phone she wanted, and she chose an iPhone XR over an Android OS device.

    Yeah, you agreed with her choice, and you paid for it.

    What a standout husband you are!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 41
    Would only make sense to trim some profits on the more expensive phones IF the customers there spend more on services. The problem is people who are price sensitive spend less on services. If they make cheaper phones for those markets instead, maybe.
  • Reply 34 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    This isn't bad news for Apple - it's bad news for their competitors.

    Apple can afford to make some adjustments to their pricing even if they take a slight hit on margins. The problem is by lowering prices an iPhone becomes an even more attractive alternative to someone looking at a Galaxy S or other flagship. Even a change of 99 dollars (or Euros) has a significant impact on the perceived value of an item. Suddenly an undecided consumer looking at an iPhone vs another device could be swayed to pick the iPhone because of the lowered price.
    If you take into account more than three years of flat sales plus this decline, a price adjustment probably wouldn't help to push sales higher than they were last year, or the year before. 

    It would be more like rolling back the clock to how things were before the decline which wasn't showing any signs of growth anyway.

    Better than how things are right now, yes. Better than the last three years, unlikely.

    Apple needs to accompany the price adjustments with a compelling upgrade to the iPhone itself. Perhaps this year, that change will come but September is still a long way off.

    Competing Android manufacturers have been pricing their flagships in the same band as Apple (today) but seeing success, so while price is obviously a factor in Apple's poor results (YoY) it isn't the whole story as the features on offer from rivals simply have more appeal (at every price point below the premium bands too).

    Still, a tacit admission by Apple of setting pricing too high is also the beginning of the solution, so any reductions will be welcome.

    I paid around 650€ for a 64GB XR after trade in and the iPhone 6 battery refund. That seems reasonable. If it hadn't been for the change in trade in value, Apple would have lost the sale to me.

    I wonder how much of an impact that last minute change in policy had on the final numbers, which in spite of them being poor, perhaps could have been far worse.


    That XR was to/for your wife; stop mischaracterizing.

    You won't buy a iPhone for yourself, and that is based on your constant pump of Huawei here with your posts on AI, and your dislike for iOS.
    It was for my wife, as everyone here knows, but I paid for it out of my own pocket! And as everyone here also knows neither my wife nor I would have paid the original asking price. In fact we had already ruled an iPhone out because of pricing and bought something else with the money that had been set aside.

    Ironic that part of the reason for this admission by TC was also due to the intense competition from the likes of Huawei, no less.

    After so much insistence on defending Apple's pricing and pointing to ASP as the metric, now your only comment is on how I am 'mischaracterising' something (when in fact, I am not!).

    Now rewind and take a look at my comments on why I wouldn't buy a 2018 iPhone. Are you surprised to see TC explain exactly that reason yesterday? I mean, to the letter!



    Tim "admitted" as well that revenue was very good in Spain last quarter, and while I too note that you bought the iPhone for your wife, her preference, you have made no indications that you would purchase an iPhone at all, based on the lack of various "necessary" features that you tout for Huawei, and your dislike for iOS.

    It's okay not to like iOS, or the iPhone, but why even continue to pretend that you are a potential buyer?
    I take note that you choose to avoid answering my question. That's OK.

    As for me, there is nothing new. I am glad I switched to Android and very happy with EMUI. I have never shied away from that or the reasons for switching.

    That said, there was absolutely no mischaracterisation anywhere above and as for Spain (and as also mentioned in another post) how much of the (unknown) iPhone sales were due to precisely the promotions I took advantage of?
    Your primary reason for not purchasing an iPhone is iOS, so price is secondary; that's my answer to your question. You value the features that you can gain from Android OS that you get over what the iPhone provides as you consider that better value. Your wife had a preference for iPhone and iOS, and you purchased when the price became feasible. Obviously, your wife had input into this, and considered that purchase the better value.

    As for your note that sales were due to "precisely the promotions I took advantage of", I'm not seeing that as even an issue. Every Android OS OEM also has "promotions' yet we don't credit that with increased sales. Sales are sales, and Apple gets to return those device back into service as refurbished units.

    I noted to you once that Huawei had a huge increase, 39% for the Quarter, in Europe, yet only had a revenue increase of 1.7%. Sounds like s lot of promotions.

    My primary reason for switching was price. I couldn't afford an iPhone (in reality two, as my wife had one too). And as Apple was in the habit of playing 'upsell games' I couldn't even get the capacity on the model I wanted.

    Until I actually switched I hadn't even used an Android phone.

    None of the issues I was told I would have actually raised their nasty heads.

    It was like a breath of fresh air to be freed from the constraints of iOS. I work in multilingual environments and back then being able to use multiple languages from the same keyboard was a godsend. Taking screenshots with two knuckle taps on the screen, fingerprint sensor gestures etc Everywhere I turned I found something new the system could do - but iOS couldn't.

    More importantly, the discovery of those features was layered so you never got the feeling you were facing an avalanche of options.

    Huawei's consumer group revenues actually broke records for 2018. Promotions are good for the consumer! Win, win don't you think?

    One tidbit that flashed up on screen during the Balong 5000 release (and I still want to confirm) is that Huawei's Hi-Link protocol is currently used on around 10,000 devices.

    The 5G router they presented is clearly designed for IoT and laying the foundation for what Huawei is calling device sensing. We'll see how that one plays out.

    We now have the iPhone cards played and they won't change until the end of this year. Competition will now ramp up for MWC (less than a month from now) and Apple will be affected if it ends those time limited trade-in deals or doesn't adjust prices enough.
    Sure, your primary concern was price, but how long ago was it that you switched? My point is that you haven't been in the market for an iPhone for quite some time, as you are now firmly in the Android OS camp. Why would you even state that you still "consider" an iPhone at this point in time? By your own statements above, it isn't accurate. I reiterate; your wife chose the iPhone XR.

    Apple is already making adjustments, and has a widening ecosystem that will pretty much insulate them from the collapsing smartphone market, which Huawei will have to face itself in the near future after the consolidation of the Android OS device market. For all I know, Huawei may end up on top, but I don't doubt that it will require a substantial cost in acquisition, ie, competition on price. 


    I say I am 'considering' because I am (or was). Without my go ahead there is no sale because I am paying. My wife could have held on for another year. We even cancelled the iPhone purchase this year and bought something else. If she now has one it is down to me.

    'Competition on price'? Yes, music to my ears. And competition on hardware, too.

    If manufacturers make a profit in the process it is win/win.
    Only you, Avon B7, would not want to acknowledge that your wife had any choice in what phone she wanted, and she chose an iPhone XR over an Android OS device.

    Yeah, you agreed with her choice, and you paid for it.

    What a standout husband you are!
    My wife always wanted an iPhone even though she is a little jealous of mine. I gave her the options based on our plans for the year and one of them was a switch to Android. She wanted an iPhone though so that's what we planned for - but understanding our plans for the year.

    When the new phones were announced they were simply too expensive and the plans got shelved. She would have to continue with the iPhone 6.

    There was no real complexity in the decision and Tim Cook got the message because we obviously weren't alone.

    Be it her money or my money, Apple would have lost out if they hadn't made the last minute offer that they did. It is as simple as that. 

    We have had a lot of other expenses to deal with and buying an 850€ was simply out of the question.

    I am a standout husband as I worked hard to fit this purchase into an already stretched budget after having bought her other 'luxury' items with the money I had set aside for the phone (and then some!) and money that was planned for my own whims. LOL.
  • Reply 35 of 41
    anome said:
    hentaiboy said:
    @anome ;
    I hope (but don't really expect) that this includes places like Australia, where changes in the exchange rate have forced the price up. You complain about US$1000 phones? Try A$2000. Sure. after taking into account the exchange rate and sales tax it works out about the same, but there's still a psychological barrier to contend with. Despite being a relatively affluent nation, we aren't that affluent.

    If it works out to be about the same, then what's the psychological barrier? Because 2 is higher than 1? I don't understand direct numbers to numbers comparisons between markets, if A$2000 is the roughly the same as USD$1000.
    Because Australians are being paid in AU dollars not US dollars...
    Also, the psychological impact of the price is based on the number, not necessarily the value. So there are barriers at 1000 and 2000 regardless the units. So what looks more daunting, a $760 phone, or a $1000 phone? A $1000 phone or a $2000 phone? Keep in mind most people don't do on the fly conversions from US$ to A$ to compare prices.
    $2,000? Big deal. That’s nothing.

    The 512 XS Max is $12,499 in Hong Kong. AppleCare alone is almost $2,000. 
  • Reply 36 of 41
    anomeanome Posts: 1,266member
    anome said:
    hentaiboy said:
    @anome ;
    I hope (but don't really expect) that this includes places like Australia, where changes in the exchange rate have forced the price up. You complain about US$1000 phones? Try A$2000. Sure. after taking into account the exchange rate and sales tax it works out about the same, but there's still a psychological barrier to contend with. Despite being a relatively affluent nation, we aren't that affluent.

    If it works out to be about the same, then what's the psychological barrier? Because 2 is higher than 1? I don't understand direct numbers to numbers comparisons between markets, if A$2000 is the roughly the same as USD$1000.
    Because Australians are being paid in AU dollars not US dollars...
    Also, the psychological impact of the price is based on the number, not necessarily the value. So there are barriers at 1000 and 2000 regardless the units. So what looks more daunting, a $760 phone, or a $1000 phone? A $1000 phone or a $2000 phone? Keep in mind most people don't do on the fly conversions from US$ to A$ to compare prices.
    $2,000? Big deal. That’s nothing.

    The 512 XS Max is $12,499 in Hong Kong. AppleCare alone is almost $2,000. 
    Exactly my point. I expect HK (and elsewhere in China) are one of the places they'll be targeting.
  • Reply 37 of 41
    @anome ;

    Wait, what? They just proved my point — It's an arbitrary number based on the value of individual currency units vs USD. It's not like it's literally costing someone in Hong Kong USD$12.5K for a phone in HK, they're just numbers.
    edited January 31
  • Reply 38 of 41
    @anome ;

    Wait, what? They just proved my point — It's an arbitrary number based on the value of individual currency units vs USD. It's not like it's literally costing someone in Hong Kong USD$12.5K for a phone in HK, they're just numbers.
    If it would be helpful, I can also supply a brick wall for you to bang your head against lol
    fastasleep
  • Reply 39 of 41
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,664member
    Taking a positive reading out of this, admitting miscalculating some things is a good start and adjusting prices in some markets is the way to go.

    The Mate 20 Pro landed in India at the same price as an XR and as you stepped down into the lower bands you came up against NEW Honor and Xiaomi flagships plus their cheaper siblings. The result (that most people agree with) is that Apple took a battering in India. There were other issues of course (local manufacturing etc) but while Tim Cook's reaction may be late, at least there has been some official admittance of miscalculation. No doubt a few years from now we'll see stories of how higher management handled the 2018 refresh and the dissenting voices that thought pricing was reaching a ceiling. I'm convinced that the feature set and pricing options didn't receive universal approval within Apple.
  • Reply 40 of 41
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    avon b7 said:
    Taking a positive reading out of this, admitting miscalculating some things is a good start and adjusting prices in some markets is the way to go.

    The Mate 20 Pro landed in India at the same price as an XR and as you stepped down into the lower bands you came up against NEW Honor and Xiaomi flagships plus their cheaper siblings. The result (that most people agree with) is that Apple took a battering in India. There were other issues of course (local manufacturing etc) but while Tim Cook's reaction may be late, at least there has been some official admittance of miscalculation. No doubt a few years from now we'll see stories of how higher management handled the 2018 refresh and the dissenting voices that thought pricing was reaching a ceiling. I'm convinced that the feature set and pricing options didn't receive universal approval within Apple.
    Having owned those Chinese flagships I’d much rather have an XR and do.

    You keep shilling for Huawei.  I hope they are paying you in euros rather than gift cards.
    watto_cobra
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