Why should we eschew the pleasures of misdirected rage when better opportunities rarely arise? Road rage had its draw-backs, but an anonymous telephone call? If these provide anything, they provide the opportunity to releases psycho-urban-social tensions, a service to humanity, at the very worst a victimless crime, like setting the sprinklers on census-takers, it doesn't hurt anyone or at least anyone I care about, and that's good enough.
Seriously. You bring up a kind of humorous but nonetheless good point: if ever there was a good target for urban rage, it is telemarketers.
On the highways people get killed doing that, in a department store or somewhere else fisticuffs could arise (or you could be spotted by someone you work with). Telemarketers, on the other hand, pose no such threats. And even if they "have no control" over who gets called, clearly they know when they sign up that they're going to get verbally pummeled at least a few times a day. It's part of the job description.
So, why the hell not? Currently I have the art of waiting that split second (when the computer hands the call off to a homo sapien on the other end), and then hanging up right when they start to speak. But if I were more of an angry bastard, I think it would clearly be a much healthier practice to abuse telemarkters (and a warranted one, despite one man's contention) than to abuse people in public.
Hey, I just realized that this topic is TOTALLY troll....you could go to any messageboard and pose as a telemarketer and have a thread that could go on forever and EVER!
I almost started wondering if Mac Voyer was a troll with that "moral superiority" comment....it's so illogical that it's like he's TRYING to pull our legs!
<strong>The fact of the matter is I believe most of you who conduct yourselves in such a way already know that your antics and outbursts will do no good. You simply do it out of sheer sadistic pleasure. You think that an unsolicited phone call gives you the right to heap as much abuse as possible on another human being. So you gladly take the opportunity to unleash all your pinned up venom on a person who meant you no ill. You want to damage their hearing with loud noises. You want to tie them up so they can?t call someone else who might be interested in their product or service. You want to make them break down and cry. And for what? What is accomplished when you do all that? Nothing! Yet somehow, you feel better. What does that say about you?</strong><hr></blockquote>
For those saying that hte Telezapper will be cracked. How exactly would one go about cracking it? There is really only one thing they could do. Tell their computer dialers to ignore the 3 tones and complete the call. So in effect they would have to ignore the only signal they get that would tell them that a phone is disconnected and attempt to finish a call on that line. I suppose they could let it go for a few moments and then if nobody answered or the three tones repeated again they could put the number in a disconnected database, but the amount of misdialed calls would increase exponentially causing tremendously larger costs making the telemarketing more expensive. That would not be a bad thing to me, but it would not make sense for them. It will not be cracked. There is nothing to crack. THe only way to defeat it is to get the phone comapany to come up with another "this Line is Disconnected" tones that would be much harder to copy. Think about it....
Anyway, my point, before all the fun began, was that I do not believe the telezapper will be the long-term solution to your problems. In time, you will be just a disappointed in them as the big music cartels were in copy protection.
There are two problems as I see it. First, systems that block calls from numbers that, themselves circumvent caller ID. There are many people with unlisted numbers and/or for some reason, don?t wish their number to be available to everyone they call. That is an understandable desire. Some call blocking services block all such numbers. This means that you may block telemarketers, but you will also block many hospitals, banks, law firms, and many other business that you might just want to hear from. This does not include friends and family members that have ID blocked numbers.
Then there are the computer dialed call blockers. Again, this can block wanted calls as well. My taxi service that we use from time to time has an automatic computer generated call back when the taxi is within five minutes of my house. Those instances are admittedly few, but there is a much bigger problem. The companies that are aggressively seeking to circumvent such blockers are the ones who stand to lose from them. In other words, the only people that telezappers will be ineffective against is telemarketers.
If telemarketing is a problem for you, then it is a human to human problem and will require a human to human solution. You can not technology your way out of it, though I invite you to try. Years ago, when companies relied on directories, people discovered the joys of the unlisted number. I reach these people on a daily basis and they are shocked I was able to call them. They demand to know how I got their number. I explain to them that I didn?t get their number at all. It is a computer dialer, bla, bla bla?. They insist on knowing how I got their unlisted number. I then tell them that we hired a team of detectives for several months to get the information. They were able to tell us the absolute most inconvenient time to reach you in order to get the most violent response. Most people lighten up a bit after that. Sooner than you think, you telezapper people will be asking the telemarketer on the other end of the line how they got your number. At best, the telezapper is an imperfect and temporary solution. Eventually, you will have to figure out a real solution to you problem, and telemarketing is YOUR problem, not mine. I make the calls. I get the calls. I don?t have an allergic reaction to it. If you want to abuse me, go ahead. At the end of the day, it?s your blood pressure in the danger zone, not mine. The call is coming. If you don?t like it, TOO BAD! DEAL WITH IT! Go ahead, if you are going to be abusive, at least be cleaver and creative. I have no pity for your kind. Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.
Matsu, I am beginning to see the appeal of being universally hated and standing alone against the mob. It is rather liberating when you don?t care what the rest of them think.
I've practiced an unstoppable stream of my own telemarketing speak. Any time they call, I begin my spiel on why they really should switch to the Mac. It might not work for Mac Voyer, but 98% of the tele-marketers will be stunned. If that doesn't get them, I keep an air horn handy.
Telemarketers make me not want to answer my telephone. They make me screen my calls through my answering machine if it is not a caller ID I recognize. I never directly asked to be called by telemarketers. I suddenly cannot trust the telephone anymore. I pay $20 a month for my telephone, and I can no longer answer a device *I* pay for.
You are a telemarketer. You're one of the many people that make this possible. As soon as I get up in the morning, I am surrounded by advertisements. By people desperately trying to sell me things. My cable TV set top box has banner ads on it. Web sites are surrounded by flashing content telling me I'm a winner. As soon as I walk down the street I'm yelled at for not giving somebody free money. About the only place I don't get actively advertised to is when I'm in the bathroom.
I pay for my cable television, but I have to see advertisements. I pay for my telephone, but it is OK for companies to aggressively dial my number and try and sell me a susbcription to, say a magazine. Another 'thing' I can begin to receive in my mailbox, alongside of even more advertisements I never asked for. And once I receive that magazine that I have paid for, I can open it up to find, you guessed it, moe advertisements!
So really, the only magazines I have subscriptions to are Aperture, and I do not mind their ads, and IDN, which is completely ad free. Thank god I have a web browser that blocks pop up ads, and I write a letter to my cable provider once a week complaining about the banner ads on my screen. I've written my state representative about support of a national do not call list.
I can't do anything else. I refuse to buy a product that is aggressively marketed to me. I will not buy anything from a spammer or a telemarketer. The only way these companies will decide to cease and desist is if it stops being effective. Unfortunately, there are enough people that buy the product to allow it to be effective.
The worst part is that I'm flat out telling 'the world' that I'm not going to buy anything emailed or telemarketed to me. So don't bother. But people do. I wouldn't have a problem with telemarketing if they just wouldn't call me. But it is as bad as spam. If I ask to be taken off a list, some other company will call me up. Then I have to get placed on their list. I won't even know if they call me back unless I write down their company name by the telephone. I'd then have to confirm that it is their company calling me back, check my list, and then go to court? I mean, my god, as if the phone calls weren't a big enough inconvenience, now I have to actually go to court and file a suit against them?
I will not work as a telemarketer, nor will I work for a company that employs a telemarketing department. There is this friend of mine that lives north of Boston. I found out a month ago that he makes his money sending out spam mail. He is no longer allowed in my apartment unless he quits doing that. If me and Mac Voyer were friends, so long as he was a telemarketer, I wouldn't let him into my home.
Telemarketing is a job that annoys everyone else. You can say it is just a job, or you can tell me how to get off of YOUR list all you want. But going through all of that is an added inconvenience, and I shouldn't have to do that. You support the telemarketing industry. I don't respect that. That's really all that it comes down to. Quit your job, find a better one. One that doesn't annoy the people you telephone up at all hours of the evening.
<strong>About the only place I don't get actively advertised to is when I'm in the bathroom.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're lucky. In these parts we have the everpresent 'Johnny Advertising' (with a quirky little 'bullseye' in place of the O in 'Johnny'...think Target logo). A man stands dammit, and they're right there in front of you. You have to look no matter how hard you try not to. To add insult to injury, the layouts of the ads are terrible (which bothers me even more than the intrusion at times). 'Captive Advertising' they call it. Grrrrr. If only I had better pressure in my pipe......
i always have fun with telemarketers, i ask them if they're in prison, when they say no, i say "well if you were in prison you'd hardly admit it...so what are ya in for?"
sometimes i just let my three year old answer and tell him it's his auntie bubbie, he loves to talk about his day.
sometimes i try to sound like a real old woman and in a real pained voice ask over and over "why are you doing this to me?" and start crying.
sometimes i ask in a real low barry white voice "so...what are you wearing?"
sometimes if i'm playing something real obnoxious i just put the mouth piece next to my headphones, and see if they might like "holiday in the sun" by the sex pistols.
sometimes i just don't answer.
however i am going to work the apple switch thing in to my repertoire. "so what kind of computer do you have?...."
Jack, If you are consistent, then you are at least doing something about it. Not being friends with people who work for companies that employ telemarketers is easier said than done. I don't think you realize just how many companies have full departments or outsource their telemarketing. I doubt you can really live with your restrictions, but more power to you. Telemarketing would end tomorrow if it wasn't so effective. You are going to have to expand your anger to include more than just telemarketers and those who employ them. Obviously, there are not enough end users who think the way you do. I may be on the losing side of this particular debate on this particular board in this particular thread, but I am not on the losing side of the issue. When more people start voting with their wallets against telemarketing, then it will die a natural death. I believe that it will end all by itself in five to ten years. Till then, keep those cleaver witticisms coming.
I'm still friends with the spammer, I just won't let him into my home. He's allowed to come back when he quits his job. It's a little bit easier in my situation because I am self employed. I've always been self employed, and I don't foresee that changing. Really, the industry I'm in, I'd doubt that I would ever work for a company that does telemarketing.
I think the basis of our arguing back and forth is basically that we're telling you that what you do in your line of work causes us much grief and frustration. We're curious as to why you want to do that for a living. You say if not you, then somebody else. You're the only one in this thread right now that is a telemarketer, so it's all about you
Jack, that's a little weird, I have to say. Sure we'll blast them at work, but we should be able to leave it alone when they get home. Even Jesus liked to hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors.
Best thing to get rid of telemarketers: My wife and I went to cell phones only. Convenient, includes voicemail and long distance, and no telemarketers.
<strong>There are plenty of people who are happy to buy things over the phone. For the rest, I wish there was a national do not call list.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mac Voyer,
How on Earth can you say you don't want to call people who don't want to be bothered, and wish there was a national "do not call" list?
Just a few posts earlier, you have stated that "getting a telezapper will only delay things until we come up with the technology to overcome it". It seems to be that a person with such a device obviously does not want your call, yet you ignore their desires.
Why should I think you'd consider a national "do not call" list anything other than the same type of annoyance as a telezapper, preventing you from doing your job?
You and your industry will continuously look for ways to bypass the "do not call" list if such is enacted, exactly as you do technological devices. My guess is telemarketing organizations might move to Canada (or some other country with cheap long-distance to the US) in order to avoid restrictions.
Also, I have every right to be as rude to you as I care to be. After all, you have invaded MY home. I would not be obligated to be polite to someone who has barged in (unwanted) through my front door, even though I cheerfully let friends in the same way, would I?
In addition, telemarketers are financially rewarded for being rude to me, and similarly punished for being polite. If your potential customer/victim tells you "no thank you, I am not interested in your product", do you immediately thank them for their time and hang up (the polite thing to do)? I doubt it. Rudeness begets rudeness, and politeness begets politeness.
As an aside, I have a surefire way to fluster telemarketers that call me. When they go into their spiel telling me how they can save me money, I tell them that I don't care. I am happy with what I am paying now, and have no need to pay less (after all, money isn't everything). Not one has come up with a good way to overcome that.
<strong>Even though I don't like telemarketing, I do not compromise my principals by being a telemarketer. I'm a salesman and have done all types of sales. I'm pretty good at what I do. I sell a great product at a great price with great terms. No money up front and cancel at any time. No one is taken advantage of by me. By and large, people are glad I called. Even when they don't buy for economic reasons, we give away two week free samples. I wouldn't take just any sales job for just any company selling just any product. I have made my ethical choices. Do not assume you know what manner of man I am simply because I do a job you find distasteful. Just because I don't care for sales in general does not mean that find it unethical.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, sounds great!
Now, just add one more little thing, and we'll be all set. Do not call me. Do not require that I ask you not to call me, when you call me. Thanks!
Comments
On the highways people get killed doing that, in a department store or somewhere else fisticuffs could arise (or you could be spotted by someone you work with). Telemarketers, on the other hand, pose no such threats. And even if they "have no control" over who gets called, clearly they know when they sign up that they're going to get verbally pummeled at least a few times a day. It's part of the job description.
So, why the hell not? Currently I have the art of waiting that split second (when the computer hands the call off to a homo sapien on the other end), and then hanging up right when they start to speak. But if I were more of an angry bastard, I think it would clearly be a much healthier practice to abuse telemarkters (and a warranted one, despite one man's contention) than to abuse people in public.
I almost started wondering if Mac Voyer was a troll with that "moral superiority" comment....it's so illogical that it's like he's TRYING to pull our legs!
pretty funny!
[ 02-16-2003: Message edited by: Ebby ]</p>
Reminded me to look into buying a Telezapper....
What's the best price folks have seen at the stores? I figure that Target or World Domination Mart have it at a good price.
<strong>The fact of the matter is I believe most of you who conduct yourselves in such a way already know that your antics and outbursts will do no good. You simply do it out of sheer sadistic pleasure. You think that an unsolicited phone call gives you the right to heap as much abuse as possible on another human being. So you gladly take the opportunity to unleash all your pinned up venom on a person who meant you no ill. You want to damage their hearing with loud noises. You want to tie them up so they can?t call someone else who might be interested in their product or service. You want to make them break down and cry. And for what? What is accomplished when you do all that? Nothing! Yet somehow, you feel better. What does that say about you?</strong><hr></blockquote>
What, are you going to cry about it?
Anyway, my point, before all the fun began, was that I do not believe the telezapper will be the long-term solution to your problems. In time, you will be just a disappointed in them as the big music cartels were in copy protection.
There are two problems as I see it. First, systems that block calls from numbers that, themselves circumvent caller ID. There are many people with unlisted numbers and/or for some reason, don?t wish their number to be available to everyone they call. That is an understandable desire. Some call blocking services block all such numbers. This means that you may block telemarketers, but you will also block many hospitals, banks, law firms, and many other business that you might just want to hear from. This does not include friends and family members that have ID blocked numbers.
Then there are the computer dialed call blockers. Again, this can block wanted calls as well. My taxi service that we use from time to time has an automatic computer generated call back when the taxi is within five minutes of my house. Those instances are admittedly few, but there is a much bigger problem. The companies that are aggressively seeking to circumvent such blockers are the ones who stand to lose from them. In other words, the only people that telezappers will be ineffective against is telemarketers.
If telemarketing is a problem for you, then it is a human to human problem and will require a human to human solution. You can not technology your way out of it, though I invite you to try. Years ago, when companies relied on directories, people discovered the joys of the unlisted number. I reach these people on a daily basis and they are shocked I was able to call them. They demand to know how I got their number. I explain to them that I didn?t get their number at all. It is a computer dialer, bla, bla bla?. They insist on knowing how I got their unlisted number. I then tell them that we hired a team of detectives for several months to get the information. They were able to tell us the absolute most inconvenient time to reach you in order to get the most violent response. Most people lighten up a bit after that. Sooner than you think, you telezapper people will be asking the telemarketer on the other end of the line how they got your number. At best, the telezapper is an imperfect and temporary solution. Eventually, you will have to figure out a real solution to you problem, and telemarketing is YOUR problem, not mine. I make the calls. I get the calls. I don?t have an allergic reaction to it. If you want to abuse me, go ahead. At the end of the day, it?s your blood pressure in the danger zone, not mine. The call is coming. If you don?t like it, TOO BAD! DEAL WITH IT! Go ahead, if you are going to be abusive, at least be cleaver and creative. I have no pity for your kind. Only a fool does the same thing over and over again and expects different results.
Matsu, I am beginning to see the appeal of being universally hated and standing alone against the mob. It is rather liberating when you don?t care what the rest of them think.
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
You are a telemarketer. You're one of the many people that make this possible. As soon as I get up in the morning, I am surrounded by advertisements. By people desperately trying to sell me things. My cable TV set top box has banner ads on it. Web sites are surrounded by flashing content telling me I'm a winner. As soon as I walk down the street I'm yelled at for not giving somebody free money. About the only place I don't get actively advertised to is when I'm in the bathroom.
I pay for my cable television, but I have to see advertisements. I pay for my telephone, but it is OK for companies to aggressively dial my number and try and sell me a susbcription to, say a magazine. Another 'thing' I can begin to receive in my mailbox, alongside of even more advertisements I never asked for. And once I receive that magazine that I have paid for, I can open it up to find, you guessed it, moe advertisements!
So really, the only magazines I have subscriptions to are Aperture, and I do not mind their ads, and IDN, which is completely ad free. Thank god I have a web browser that blocks pop up ads, and I write a letter to my cable provider once a week complaining about the banner ads on my screen. I've written my state representative about support of a national do not call list.
I can't do anything else. I refuse to buy a product that is aggressively marketed to me. I will not buy anything from a spammer or a telemarketer. The only way these companies will decide to cease and desist is if it stops being effective. Unfortunately, there are enough people that buy the product to allow it to be effective.
The worst part is that I'm flat out telling 'the world' that I'm not going to buy anything emailed or telemarketed to me. So don't bother. But people do. I wouldn't have a problem with telemarketing if they just wouldn't call me. But it is as bad as spam. If I ask to be taken off a list, some other company will call me up. Then I have to get placed on their list. I won't even know if they call me back unless I write down their company name by the telephone. I'd then have to confirm that it is their company calling me back, check my list, and then go to court? I mean, my god, as if the phone calls weren't a big enough inconvenience, now I have to actually go to court and file a suit against them?
I will not work as a telemarketer, nor will I work for a company that employs a telemarketing department. There is this friend of mine that lives north of Boston. I found out a month ago that he makes his money sending out spam mail. He is no longer allowed in my apartment unless he quits doing that. If me and Mac Voyer were friends, so long as he was a telemarketer, I wouldn't let him into my home.
Telemarketing is a job that annoys everyone else. You can say it is just a job, or you can tell me how to get off of YOUR list all you want. But going through all of that is an added inconvenience, and I shouldn't have to do that. You support the telemarketing industry. I don't respect that. That's really all that it comes down to. Quit your job, find a better one. One that doesn't annoy the people you telephone up at all hours of the evening.
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
<strong>About the only place I don't get actively advertised to is when I'm in the bathroom.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're lucky. In these parts we have the everpresent 'Johnny Advertising' (with a quirky little 'bullseye' in place of the O in 'Johnny'...think Target logo). A man stands dammit, and they're right there in front of you. You have to look no matter how hard you try not to. To add insult to injury, the layouts of the ads are terrible (which bothers me even more than the intrusion at times). 'Captive Advertising' they call it. Grrrrr. If only I had better pressure in my pipe......
sometimes i just let my three year old answer and tell him it's his auntie bubbie, he loves to talk about his day.
sometimes i try to sound like a real old woman and in a real pained voice ask over and over "why are you doing this to me?" and start crying.
sometimes i ask in a real low barry white voice "so...what are you wearing?"
sometimes if i'm playing something real obnoxious i just put the mouth piece next to my headphones, and see if they might like "holiday in the sun" by the sex pistols.
sometimes i just don't answer.
however i am going to work the apple switch thing in to my repertoire. "so what kind of computer do you have?...."
[ 02-16-2003: Message edited by: superkarate monkeydeathcar ]</p>
Jack, If you are consistent, then you are at least doing something about it. Not being friends with people who work for companies that employ telemarketers is easier said than done. I don't think you realize just how many companies have full departments or outsource their telemarketing. I doubt you can really live with your restrictions, but more power to you. Telemarketing would end tomorrow if it wasn't so effective. You are going to have to expand your anger to include more than just telemarketers and those who employ them. Obviously, there are not enough end users who think the way you do. I may be on the losing side of this particular debate on this particular board in this particular thread, but I am not on the losing side of the issue. When more people start voting with their wallets against telemarketing, then it will die a natural death. I believe that it will end all by itself in five to ten years. Till then, keep those cleaver witticisms coming.
I think the basis of our arguing back and forth is basically that we're telling you that what you do in your line of work causes us much grief and frustration. We're curious as to why you want to do that for a living. You say if not you, then somebody else. You're the only one in this thread right now that is a telemarketer, so it's all about you
<strong>There are plenty of people who are happy to buy things over the phone. For the rest, I wish there was a national do not call list.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mac Voyer,
How on Earth can you say you don't want to call people who don't want to be bothered, and wish there was a national "do not call" list?
Just a few posts earlier, you have stated that "getting a telezapper will only delay things until we come up with the technology to overcome it". It seems to be that a person with such a device obviously does not want your call, yet you ignore their desires.
Why should I think you'd consider a national "do not call" list anything other than the same type of annoyance as a telezapper, preventing you from doing your job?
You and your industry will continuously look for ways to bypass the "do not call" list if such is enacted, exactly as you do technological devices. My guess is telemarketing organizations might move to Canada (or some other country with cheap long-distance to the US) in order to avoid restrictions.
Also, I have every right to be as rude to you as I care to be. After all, you have invaded MY home. I would not be obligated to be polite to someone who has barged in (unwanted) through my front door, even though I cheerfully let friends in the same way, would I?
In addition, telemarketers are financially rewarded for being rude to me, and similarly punished for being polite. If your potential customer/victim tells you "no thank you, I am not interested in your product", do you immediately thank them for their time and hang up (the polite thing to do)? I doubt it. Rudeness begets rudeness, and politeness begets politeness.
As an aside, I have a surefire way to fluster telemarketers that call me. When they go into their spiel telling me how they can save me money, I tell them that I don't care. I am happy with what I am paying now, and have no need to pay less (after all, money isn't everything). Not one has come up with a good way to overcome that.
John
Taking either of these jobs pretty much guarantees that in your next life, you'll be a a ugly d!ckless sunuvabiatch.
By the way, yes, I do hope Jerome Iginla will be a Leaf!
<strong>Even though I don't like telemarketing, I do not compromise my principals by being a telemarketer. I'm a salesman and have done all types of sales. I'm pretty good at what I do. I sell a great product at a great price with great terms. No money up front and cancel at any time. No one is taken advantage of by me. By and large, people are glad I called. Even when they don't buy for economic reasons, we give away two week free samples. I wouldn't take just any sales job for just any company selling just any product. I have made my ethical choices. Do not assume you know what manner of man I am simply because I do a job you find distasteful. Just because I don't care for sales in general does not mean that find it unethical.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, sounds great!
Now, just add one more little thing, and we'll be all set. Do not call me. Do not require that I ask you not to call me, when you call me. Thanks!