Apple's apology for small amount of 2018 MacBook Pro keyboard failures still isn't enough

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 79
    Johan42Johan42 Posts: 163member
    Wow, what a critical and hard-hitting piece of journalism.

    What I got from that is a small percentage of people who have recent MacBooks end up with keyboard problems, and those users should "go get it fixed."

    Oh, and also, the small percentage of users who had problems with keyboards before 2016 was (perhaps) half the size.

    And, for some reason Apple should "apologize" for not creating perfect, faultless devices.

    Shrug.  I have a 2016 MacBook Pro and I love it and am in the "large percentage" of users without a problem.
    I’ve used just about every brand and type (mechanical, membrane, etc) of keyboard, and only Apple’s has given me an issue. It’s definitely not a small percentage, and they definitely should apologize for making such shitty keyboards. One would think that a company with such massive amounts of money would do better in their R&D stage.
    anantksundaramelijahg
  • Reply 42 of 79
    flaneur said:
    Apple's new keyboard is an utter POS. 

    I might as well be whacking the ends of my finger on my desk...
    If you’re whacking the keyboard then you’re “using it wrong.” Many people are tactility challenged and use too much force on computer keyboards. You might be one of these.

    I find the keyboad a joy to use, but I started out on an upright Underwood typewriter back in the 60s at a newspaper, hammering that clunker all day long.

    Once many years ago I was typing on a friend’s computer, and she said “Don’t hit the keys so hard.” I had not been aware that I was, and she made me realize that one should use the minimum force to get the job done. With anything. I learned that also as a mechanic. Some people trash their cars by tearing into driveways or thrashing the transmission or clutch, others don’t. 

    Still, it appears that the butterfly mechanism is way too vulnerable to the heavy-handed. Maybe Apple should have remembered the original meaning of “foolproof,” and made them so.
    Of course! I am typing it wrong!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.  

    /facepalm
    80s_Apple_GuyAbalos65chemengintokyojimu
  • Reply 43 of 79
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,518member
    flaneur said:
    Apple's new keyboard is an utter POS. 

    I might as well be whacking the ends of my finger on my desk...
    If you’re whacking the keyboard then you’re “using it wrong.” Many people are tactility challenged and use too much force on computer keyboards. You might be one of these.

    I find the keyboad a joy to use, but I started out on an upright Underwood typewriter back in the 60s at a newspaper, hammering that clunker all day long.

    Once many years ago I was typing on a friend’s computer, and she said “Don’t hit the keys so hard.” I had not been aware that I was, and she made me realize that one should use the minimum force to get the job done. With anything. I learned that also as a mechanic. Some people trash their cars by tearing into driveways or thrashing the transmission or clutch, others don’t. 

    Still, it appears that the butterfly mechanism is way too vulnerable to the heavy-handed. Maybe Apple should have remembered the original meaning of “foolproof,” and made them so.
    Of course! I am typing it wrong!! Thank you, thank you, thank you.  

    /facepalm
    Just a suggestion that maybe a lighter touch would reveal the one benefit of the keyboard. It was you who used the word “whacking.” Sorry if I took your hyperbole literally. You’re welcome, though.
    edited March 27 HenryDJPfastasleeprandominternetpersonelijahg
  • Reply 44 of 79
    MplsP said:
    HenryDJP said:
    tokyojimu said:
    I've been having keyboard problems on my 2017 MacBook. But the repair means doing without your computer for a week as they send it out for repair, and so I haven't reported my problems yet. I wonder how many others might be in my position, artificially deflating the number of users affected.
    Not to be "That Guy" but if you refuse to take 5-7 days out of your life to get your computer fixed  for free so you can get on with whatever you use it for then there's no reason for you to complain. There are also people who have issues with their Macs, PC's or whatever tech product they have and don't have a warranty and have to pay for repairs PLUS being without their computer while it's in service. If it's not the keyboard it's the screen. If its not the screen it's the hinges. If it's not the hinges then it's the logic board. These are common issues that laptops have regardless of brand, so if you're thinking to reply with "Well Apple shouldn't put out faulty keyboards", well that's the nature of tech, regardless of brand, regardless of cost. 

    Dell's service repair quotes 2-3 weeks. I don't think 5-7 business days for an Apple repair is being unreasonable. 
    It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living. The other frustrating part of the issue is that these are not $200 chrome books - they are $1500+ premium laptops that are marketed as such. The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable. Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off.

    I’d echo many of the comments above - I started having issues with my 2017 MBP about 6 months after I got it - the command key started sticking. I guess not as critical as the T or the A, but still a big deal. I was able to get it cleaned out and working again and since then have purchased a silicone keyboard cover which has mostly eliminated further problems, but I’m pretty sure I would have become one of the ‘uncounted statistics’ - people who have had issues but haven’t gone in. My 2011 MacBook Air was at the end of its life, so I replaced it, but I’m now regretting that decision. It’s a great computer with a crappy keyboard
    "It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living."

    If one is using their computer to run a business or make a living there should be backup solutions. I'm not defending Apple but far more things can and will go wrong on a computer or any office equipment you're using and if a person is using their laptop to make a living on then it's irresponsible to think it won't have issues, simply because it's expensive. 

    "
    The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable."

    Very expensive products do have issues as I mentioned earlier. 

    "
    Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off."

    Nobody is paying for a keyboard repair. There is an active keyboard repair program for the 2016 and 2017 MBP's and anyone with a 2018 model is still covered under the initial 1 year warranty, so please don't make stuff up to help your argument. 


    fastasleeprandominternetperson
  • Reply 45 of 79
    Joanna Stern has cried wolf about so much nonsense over the years, from her time at pro-troll site Verge, to her silly complaints at WSJ. Won't take her as a single source on anything.

    Here's Gruber politely saying Stern is full of shit over her recommendation to tape your Mac's webcam to protect it from hackers:

    https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams
    From Rogifan here's Gruber agreeing with her.  It seems people can have different opinions about different topics from the same person. :)
    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2019/03/27/strn-kyboard "Devastating column from Joanna Stern on the continuing saga of the unreliable keyboards in Apple’s MacBook lineup. I consider these keyboards the worst products in Apple history. MacBooks should have the best keyboards in the industry; instead they’re the worst. They’re doing lasting harm to the reputation of the MacBook brand."
  • Reply 46 of 79
    MplsPMplsP Posts: 1,673member
    HenryDJP said:
    MplsP said:
    HenryDJP said:
    tokyojimu said:
    I've been having keyboard problems on my 2017 MacBook. But the repair means doing without your computer for a week as they send it out for repair, and so I haven't reported my problems yet. I wonder how many others might be in my position, artificially deflating the number of users affected.
    Not to be "That Guy" but if you refuse to take 5-7 days out of your life to get your computer fixed  for free so you can get on with whatever you use it for then there's no reason for you to complain. There are also people who have issues with their Macs, PC's or whatever tech product they have and don't have a warranty and have to pay for repairs PLUS being without their computer while it's in service. If it's not the keyboard it's the screen. If its not the screen it's the hinges. If it's not the hinges then it's the logic board. These are common issues that laptops have regardless of brand, so if you're thinking to reply with "Well Apple shouldn't put out faulty keyboards", well that's the nature of tech, regardless of brand, regardless of cost. 

    Dell's service repair quotes 2-3 weeks. I don't think 5-7 business days for an Apple repair is being unreasonable. 
    It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living. The other frustrating part of the issue is that these are not $200 chrome books - they are $1500+ premium laptops that are marketed as such. The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable. Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off.

    I’d echo many of the comments above - I started having issues with my 2017 MBP about 6 months after I got it - the command key started sticking. I guess not as critical as the T or the A, but still a big deal. I was able to get it cleaned out and working again and since then have purchased a silicone keyboard cover which has mostly eliminated further problems, but I’m pretty sure I would have become one of the ‘uncounted statistics’ - people who have had issues but haven’t gone in. My 2011 MacBook Air was at the end of its life, so I replaced it, but I’m now regretting that decision. It’s a great computer with a crappy keyboard
    "It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living."

    If one is using their computer to run a business or make a living there should be backup solutions. I'm not defending Apple but far more things can and will go wrong on a computer or any office equipment you're using and if a person is using their laptop to make a living on then it's irresponsible to think it won't have issues, simply because it's expensive. 

    "The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable."

    Very expensive products do have issues as I mentioned earlier. 

    "Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off."

    Nobody is paying for a keyboard repair. There is an active keyboard repair program for the 2016 and 2017 MBP's and anyone with a 2018 model is still covered under the initial 1 year warranty, so please don't make stuff up to help your argument. 


    I have a friend who is a freelance journalist - she makes a living but does not have much extra, certainly not enough to buy a spare MacBook. 

    As for the cost, yes, currently repairs are covered. Initially they weren't and some people were out several hundred dollars. Personally, I'm in the position of waiting for my keyboard to fail completely and hoping it does so before their replacement program ends. Judging from the comments here, many other people are in the same boat. Are you suggesting we should be happy about this?
    elijahg
  • Reply 47 of 79
    I personally love the butterfly keyboard from an ergonomic standpoint, and the post-2016 MacBook Pro design in general (I have one of the 2017 models), but there are a couple of caveats. First off, the 2016 model was very poor; imprecise and prone to not registering strokes, and resulted in my holding back on a workplace purchase--the 2017 is a major, major improvement for my typing not only on the 2016 model but also on previous generation Macbook Pros. Second, I've used this 2017 butterfly MBP from the start with one of those silicone keyboard covers and would never dare to use it without on account of how tight the key clearances are; too easy for even a very small piece of dust to jam the key.

    Additionally, I've tended over the years to be an early adopter of new keyboard designs, with ever lighter-weight actions, and it has profoundly altered the way I type in a way that primes me for the butterfly keyboard. That is to say I type fairly lightly even though very quickly; it would require too much physical effort at this point for me to make an impression on a traditional typewriter, there'd be major problems on a membrane-style keyboard with traditional full-size keys, and may even be trouble with one of the very fine keyboards from the late 1980s to early 1990s with individual mechanical switches on each key like the Apple Extended, or recent knockoffs thereof such as certain Matias products. And i go faster on the butterfly keyboard even than on the Retina, which in turn was faster for me than earlier Apple laptops.

    So the butterfly keyboard on the 2017 (and presumably this would also apply to the 2018) is a very practical solution for me that produces a keyboard with a more precise action for my current typing style, but for most people? I have my doubts, because people who type heavier than I do may run into trouble over time with reliability. It poses a dilemma for Apple....do you stick with it and try to gradually convert people to lighter typing or do you pull back to something like the robust, if rather mushy, keyboard on the Retina models?

    I also have to confess I've had a replacement of the top case including the keyboard within the first month...but not due to the keyboard key switch action itself -- rather the glue holding in the metal backplate under the keyboard unit came unattached, resulting in the whole computer quite literally clanking as I typed due to the backplate bouncing up and down inside the case. Not exactly a ringing quality endorsement there.
    edited March 27 fastasleeprandominternetperson
  • Reply 48 of 79
    I’m lucky all my MacBook Pro’s have not had a problem! One is used in the basement and other is lugged all around town.
  • Reply 49 of 79
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 3,171member
    flaneur said:

    I own both a 2016 MB 12” and a 2017 MB Pro 15” and both computers are plagued with frequent keyboard problems. I keep a case of canned air around to keep the keyboards working. I waste time every day cleaning the keyboards. It is a pain. 

    I’m a novelist and spend all day everyday typing on my notebooks. As a professional keyboard user, these keyboards are the worse keyboards I have ever used. I own a couple of 2013 era Apple MB Pros which have the best keyboards I’ve ever used. So I know Apple knows how to make a great keyboard. 

    Apple needs to take ownership of this problem and resolve it. Every computer does not have to be so thin, so anorexic that it no longer serves its purpose well. Anorexia is not sexy, it is unhealthy. I am heartbroken that Apple seems to be going down the path of selling slick over “it just works.” The entire reason I gave up on MS computers and went to Apple in 2011 was to save all the time I was losing to computer updates and upkeep. In my opinion, Apple is still better than MS, but not for long.

    This MB keyboard fiasco is not a small inconsequential problem to those who experience it. There is a recall petition with over 35,680 signatures https://www.change.org/p/apple-apple-recall-macbook-pro-w-defective-keyboard-replace-with-different-working-keyboard

    Methinks it would be better to vacuum the keyboard rather than blow the dirt into the cracks with compressed air. Only don’t touch the nozzle or dusting brush to the keyboard, of course, just a bit above. I use a fine pre-vacuumed paintbrush right next to the nozzle to dislodge any stuck-on dust into the suction.
    Vacuums are bad due to the static electricity buildup. You don't have to touch something to create an arc. I wouldn't risk it, even if the probability of frying your logic board is relatively low.
    randominternetpersonelijahg
  • Reply 50 of 79
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 3,171member
    Reliability is one thing, but those asking for more key travel are ignoring the clear signs that Apple is moving towards control surfaces with zero travel, and likely haptic feedback. It's coming:
    There have been a lot of patents involving virtual keyboards/touch input areas/haptic or air feedback/etc. The Touch Bar in tandem with shallower key travel and the enlarged Trackpad (which doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than working to keep taking over more real estate with the eventual goal to expand function) definitely look like the baby steps in that direction.
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/05/apple-continues-to-advance-a-hybrid-notebook-with-a-reconfigurable-surface-supporting-a-virtual-keyboard-more.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/02/apple-talks-up-smart-bezels-live-reconfigurable-macbooks.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/07/apple-invents-new-flat-keyless-keyboard-for-desktops-more.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/05/apple-explores-keyboards-using-an-advanced-air-feedback-system.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/01/apple-pushes-research-into-motion-keyboards-for-macbooks.html
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/06/apple_touch_typing_tech_could_lead_to_backside_input_for_tablets

    That said, I LOVE the keyboard on my 2018 MBP. My partner loves the keyboard on her 2018 Air that she got at the same time, and she's completely clueless as to any technical aspects of the keyboard changes. I have adapted my typing style to be a bit lighter and have felt like I've been typing much faster than I did on my previous Macs. 

    I feel like anyone complaining about finger pain from typing on these thing is literally typing much harder than required and refusing to adjust their typing style to the new keyboards. 
    HenryDJPrandominternetpersonelijahg
  • Reply 51 of 79
    MplsP said:
    HenryDJP said:
    MplsP said:
    HenryDJP said:
    tokyojimu said:
    I've been having keyboard problems on my 2017 MacBook. But the repair means doing without your computer for a week as they send it out for repair, and so I haven't reported my problems yet. I wonder how many others might be in my position, artificially deflating the number of users affected.
    Not to be "That Guy" but if you refuse to take 5-7 days out of your life to get your computer fixed  for free so you can get on with whatever you use it for then there's no reason for you to complain. There are also people who have issues with their Macs, PC's or whatever tech product they have and don't have a warranty and have to pay for repairs PLUS being without their computer while it's in service. If it's not the keyboard it's the screen. If its not the screen it's the hinges. If it's not the hinges then it's the logic board. These are common issues that laptops have regardless of brand, so if you're thinking to reply with "Well Apple shouldn't put out faulty keyboards", well that's the nature of tech, regardless of brand, regardless of cost. 

    Dell's service repair quotes 2-3 weeks. I don't think 5-7 business days for an Apple repair is being unreasonable. 
    It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living. The other frustrating part of the issue is that these are not $200 chrome books - they are $1500+ premium laptops that are marketed as such. The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable. Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off.

    I’d echo many of the comments above - I started having issues with my 2017 MBP about 6 months after I got it - the command key started sticking. I guess not as critical as the T or the A, but still a big deal. I was able to get it cleaned out and working again and since then have purchased a silicone keyboard cover which has mostly eliminated further problems, but I’m pretty sure I would have become one of the ‘uncounted statistics’ - people who have had issues but haven’t gone in. My 2011 MacBook Air was at the end of its life, so I replaced it, but I’m now regretting that decision. It’s a great computer with a crappy keyboard
    "It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living."

    If one is using their computer to run a business or make a living there should be backup solutions. I'm not defending Apple but far more things can and will go wrong on a computer or any office equipment you're using and if a person is using their laptop to make a living on then it's irresponsible to think it won't have issues, simply because it's expensive. 

    "The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable."

    Very expensive products do have issues as I mentioned earlier. 

    "Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off."

    Nobody is paying for a keyboard repair. There is an active keyboard repair program for the 2016 and 2017 MBP's and anyone with a 2018 model is still covered under the initial 1 year warranty, so please don't make stuff up to help your argument. 


    I have a friend who is a freelance journalist - she makes a living but does not have much extra, certainly not enough to buy a spare MacBook. 

    As for the cost, yes, currently repairs are covered. Initially they weren't and some people were out several hundred dollars. Personally, I'm in the position of waiting for my keyboard to fail completely and hoping it does so before their replacement program ends. Judging from the comments here, many other people are in the same boat. Are you suggesting we should be happy about this?
    "Judging from the comments here, many other people are in the same boat. Are you suggesting we should be happy about this?"
    "
    As for the cost, yes, currently repairs are covered. Initially they weren't and some people were out several hundred dollars."

    I never said any of the sort or suggested it. Don't throw words in my mouth. You seem to hurl words without thinking first. For example, did you research and find out that Apple has and is reimbursing ALL customers that paid for a keyboard repair? Apparently not because you're trying to make Apple out to be some tyrant of a company. So you're wrong by saying people are out several hundreds of dollars. Once again, you're making something up without researching facts. 

    "I
     have a friend who is a freelance journalist - she makes a living but does not have much extra, certainly not enough to buy a spare MacBook."

    If your friend is a journalist and doesn't make much money enough to buy a backup computer then a Macbook isn't something she needed. I'm speaking purely from the fact that she earns a living from it, as you said earlier.  Any moderately priced Windows laptop would perform the task perfectly. Heck she could easily get 2 moderately priced Windows machines for the price of one Mac if she can't afford to be out of a computer for when or if the computer breaks down. 
    edited March 27
  • Reply 52 of 79
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,701member
    MplsP said:
    HenryDJP said:
    tokyojimu said:
    I've been having keyboard problems on my 2017 MacBook. But the repair means doing without your computer for a week as they send it out for repair, and so I haven't reported my problems yet. I wonder how many others might be in my position, artificially deflating the number of users affected.
    Not to be "That Guy" but if you refuse to take 5-7 days out of your life to get your computer fixed  for free so you can get on with whatever you use it for then there's no reason for you to complain. There are also people who have issues with their Macs, PC's or whatever tech product they have and don't have a warranty and have to pay for repairs PLUS being without their computer while it's in service. If it's not the keyboard it's the screen. If its not the screen it's the hinges. If it's not the hinges then it's the logic board. These are common issues that laptops have regardless of brand, so if you're thinking to reply with "Well Apple shouldn't put out faulty keyboards", well that's the nature of tech, regardless of brand, regardless of cost. 

    Dell's service repair quotes 2-3 weeks. I don't think 5-7 business days for an Apple repair is being unreasonable. 
    It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living. The other frustrating part of the issue is that these are not $200 chrome books - they are $1500+ premium laptops that are marketed as such. The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable. Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off.

    I’d echo many of the comments above - I started having issues with my 2017 MBP about 6 months after I got it - the command key started sticking. I guess not as critical as the T or the A, but still a big deal. I was able to get it cleaned out and working again and since then have purchased a silicone keyboard cover which has mostly eliminated further problems, but I’m pretty sure I would have become one of the ‘uncounted statistics’ - people who have had issues but haven’t gone in. My 2011 MacBook Air was at the end of its life, so I replaced it, but I’m now regretting that decision. It’s a great computer with a crappy keyboard
    I'm a professional who uses my computers to make a living. In no way would I only have one computer at home, nor do my associates. 
    Seriously.  I depend on mine to make a living.  That’s why I own an iMac, Mini, and a MBP.

    if something were that important, have a backup.
    macplusplusrandominternetpersonHenryDJP
  • Reply 53 of 79
    LatkoLatko Posts: 398member
    Someone who maintains this design (and repeats it over and over again) must be an intrisical flop
    Even when driving 8 Bentleys simultaneously
    edited March 28
  • Reply 54 of 79
    I’d love to know the actual legit numbers. 

    While im sure there are some real defective keyboards, I doubt it’s above 1%. 

    Thats the mind of failure rate of anything. Screen, hinge, etc. 

    i bought the 2016 mbp. Maxed. 

    LOVE the keyboard. Can’t stand keys with unnessecary steep travel. The mbp keys are perfect. Not too much Tavel and not too little. Just right. They do need to stop here though. Any less travel is rough. 

    Also... ZERO issues with keys despite it being abused 8+ hours a day, every day for the past couple years. 

    Apple should keep refining the new keyboard. Don’t go backward to the old steep keys, just keep perfecting the new design. 

    You have to wonder the use cases of these reports. Apple is often the target of frivolous crap. 

    “I was using my MacBook Pro in the middle of a sandstorm and now it has issues with the keyboard. What the heck, Apple?”


    macplusplusrandominternetpersonHenryDJP
  • Reply 55 of 79
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,883administrator
    I’d love to know the actual legit numbers. 

    While im sure there are some real defective keyboards, I doubt it’s above 1%. 

    Thats the mind of failure rate of anything. Screen, hinge, etc. 

    i bought the 2016 mbp. Maxed. 

    LOVE the keyboard. Can’t stand keys with unnessecary steep travel. The mbp keys are perfect. Not too much Tavel and not too little. Just right. They do need to stop here though. Any less travel is rough. 

    Also... ZERO issues with keys despite it being abused 8+ hours a day, every day for the past couple years. 

    Apple should keep refining the new keyboard. Don’t go backward to the old steep keys, just keep perfecting the new design. 

    You have to wonder the use cases of these reports. Apple is often the target of frivolous crap. 

    “I was using my MacBook Pro in the middle of a sandstorm and now it has issues with the keyboard. What the heck, Apple?”


    Without knowing the absolute number of MacBook Pro units sold per year, a percent of all units in the field number is impossible. Like we've now said three times, it is a small percentage -- but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem as exemplified by the program for the 2016 and 2017.

    For what it's worth, I haven't seen it in any of the units I've used. As you may expect, I put some miles on my keyboard. AppleInsider's editor in chief has, though.
    edited March 28
  • Reply 56 of 79
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,804member
    Joanna Stern has cried wolf about so much nonsense over the years, from her time at pro-troll site Verge, to her silly complaints at WSJ. Won't take her as a single source on anything.

    Here's Gruber politely saying Stern is full of shit over her recommendation to tape your Mac's webcam to protect it from hackers:

    https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams
    1.    This is why Cook is increasing AppleCare to deal with keyboard problems

    2.    Looks like Apple has not infected their biggest seller MacBookAir with the problem keyboard.

    3.    I guess you will be cheering when DED does a hit piece on Joanna Stern.   I hope her article is included in the WSJ when you sign up for Apple News+.    
    elijahg
  • Reply 57 of 79
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,804member
    MplsP said:
    HenryDJP said:
    tokyojimu said:
    I've been having keyboard problems on my 2017 MacBook. But the repair means doing without your computer for a week as they send it out for repair, and so I haven't reported my problems yet. I wonder how many others might be in my position, artificially deflating the number of users affected.
    Not to be "That Guy" but if you refuse to take 5-7 days out of your life to get your computer fixed  for free so you can get on with whatever you use it for then there's no reason for you to complain. There are also people who have issues with their Macs, PC's or whatever tech product they have and don't have a warranty and have to pay for repairs PLUS being without their computer while it's in service. If it's not the keyboard it's the screen. If its not the screen it's the hinges. If it's not the hinges then it's the logic board. These are common issues that laptops have regardless of brand, so if you're thinking to reply with "Well Apple shouldn't put out faulty keyboards", well that's the nature of tech, regardless of brand, regardless of cost. 

    Dell's service repair quotes 2-3 weeks. I don't think 5-7 business days for an Apple repair is being unreasonable. 
    It’s not that a week is unreasonable; it’s just that it’s undoable for people who depend on their computer for a living. The other frustrating part of the issue is that these are not $200 chrome books - they are $1500+ premium laptops that are marketed as such. The fact that the keyboard is not only less reliable, but worse from a user perspective than the keyboard on a $500 computer is just unacceptable. Add to taht taht the repair costs hundreds of dollars and people have every right to be pissed off.

    I’d echo many of the comments above - I started having issues with my 2017 MBP about 6 months after I got it - the command key started sticking. I guess not as critical as the T or the A, but still a big deal. I was able to get it cleaned out and working again and since then have purchased a silicone keyboard cover which has mostly eliminated further problems, but I’m pretty sure I would have become one of the ‘uncounted statistics’ - people who have had issues but haven’t gone in. My 2011 MacBook Air was at the end of its life, so I replaced it, but I’m now regretting that decision. It’s a great computer with a crappy keyboard
    I'm a professional who uses my computers to make a living. In no way would I only have one computer at home, nor do my associates. 
    They should keep an extra Lenovo laptop at home so they have one that works.   And then just switch.  (lucky I have 2015 MBP)
  • Reply 58 of 79
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,804member
    Reliability is one thing, but those asking for more key travel are ignoring the clear signs that Apple is moving towards control surfaces with zero travel, and likely haptic feedback. It's coming:
    There have been a lot of patents involving virtual keyboards/touch input areas/haptic or air feedback/etc. The Touch Bar in tandem with shallower key travel and the enlarged Trackpad (which doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than working to keep taking over more real estate with the eventual goal to expand function) definitely look like the baby steps in that direction.
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/05/apple-continues-to-advance-a-hybrid-notebook-with-a-reconfigurable-surface-supporting-a-virtual-keyboard-more.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/02/apple-talks-up-smart-bezels-live-reconfigurable-macbooks.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/07/apple-invents-new-flat-keyless-keyboard-for-desktops-more.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/05/apple-explores-keyboards-using-an-advanced-air-feedback-system.html
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2011/01/apple-pushes-research-into-motion-keyboards-for-macbooks.html
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/06/apple_touch_typing_tech_could_lead_to_backside_input_for_tablets

    That said, I LOVE the keyboard on my 2018 MBP. My partner loves the keyboard on her 2018 Air that she got at the same time, and she's completely clueless as to any technical aspects of the keyboard changes. I have adapted my typing style to be a bit lighter and have felt like I've been typing much faster than I did on my previous Macs. 

    I feel like anyone complaining about finger pain from typing on these thing is literally typing much harder than required and refusing to adjust their typing style to the new keyboards. 
    This is big nightmare.   The idea of a total flat keyboard.   
    elijahg
  • Reply 59 of 79
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,883administrator
    k2kw said:
    Joanna Stern has cried wolf about so much nonsense over the years, from her time at pro-troll site Verge, to her silly complaints at WSJ. Won't take her as a single source on anything.

    Here's Gruber politely saying Stern is full of shit over her recommendation to tape your Mac's webcam to protect it from hackers:

    https://daringfireball.net/2019/02/on_covering_webcams
    1.    This is why Cook is increasing AppleCare to deal with keyboard problems

    2.    Looks like Apple has not infected their biggest seller MacBookAir with the problem keyboard.

    3.    I guess you will be cheering when DED does a hit piece on Joanna Stern.   I hope her article is included in the WSJ when you sign up for Apple News+.    
    The 2018 MacBook Air keyboard is the same in every regard as the MacBook Pro.
    randominternetpersonfastasleep
  • Reply 60 of 79
    []...] You have to wonder the use cases of these reports. Apple is often the target of frivolous crap. 

    “I was using my MacBook Pro in the middle of a sandstorm and now it has issues with the keyboard. What the heck, Apple?”


    Let's assume my use case is the issue and the failing keys are my fault ("I'm holding it wrong"). Why am I only experiencing failures since buying this machine? Why not the three previous models I owned before it? How and where I use my machine has not changed. My uses of it haven't changed. The only variable is the machine. If my use case is the problem, shouldn't it have evidenced with ALL my Macs, not just this one?

    BTW, it's insulting as hell to refer to reports of problems as "frivolous crap." Try living with this for s few days and tell me my frustration is frivolous. I'm glad you don't have problems with yours, but it's a wild twist of logic to interpret that as meaning no one else does.
    Abalos65avon b7MplsPelijahg
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