Editorial: Steve Jobs would have been proud of Tim Cook's Apple News & Apple TV event

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  • Reply 81 of 93
    Notsofastnotsofast Posts: 450member
    What many are missing is that Apple needs to be in services, not just for the revenue it brings, but to defend its ecosystem.  As other giant companies tie up rights to TV shows and movies, along with sports, if Apple didn't offer streaming video, they would risk losing huge numbers of people to other platforms. 
    tenthousandthings
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  • Reply 82 of 93
    jbolyjboly Posts: 5member
    Daniel,
    I think most of your Apple analysis is spot on, and I agree that the completely unwarranted Apple sniping has become a whole cottage industry for the tech press.   

    That said, I think in this case, you are missing an opportunity to give some important feedback to Apple.   The new services are well intentioned, as are many of the hardware product changes we have seen, but lately Apple has sacrificed a lot of what has traditionally been their strong suits, in pursuit of goals that do not agree with many of their customers.   Examples:
    1) QA is suffering. There are many more bugs and less reliable parts of macOS than we would typically see from Apple in past versions.
    2) Extreme minimalism - butterfly keyboard.   Great idea, but when it gets to the point that even small dust particles can cause problems, it's both an engineering and a QA issue.  And to what end?  No reasonable customer would sacrifice reliability for a fraction of a millimeter in thickness.
    3) Extreme minimalism - USB-C ports only.  Unlike when the iMac was the first machine to introduce USB ports in the late 90s, this time around USB-A ports are common.  Most of the rest of the industry is very slow to adopt USB-C and has put USB-A ports on their devices as well or not added USB-C ports at all. This gives peripheral vendors a pass to continue to use cheaper and more ubiquitous USB2 and 3/ USB-A connectivity rather than upgrade to USB-C.  Especially for very low bandwidth and mundane peripherals like mice, keyboards, and charging and connectivity for things like wireless earbuds.   And this means it will be many years, perhaps five or more before USB-C is truly ubiquitous. So Apple is essentially requiring their customers to adopt a less than elegant and awkward use of dongles and USB hubs just to use most of the current devices they own, and even ones that are brand new, but still not supporting USB-C.   Again, no Apple customer would be upset with the inclusion of one or two USB-A ports on a MacBook Pro.   

    With respect to the newly announced services, I'm not sold on Apple TV+ instead of YouTube TV.  Where are the local channels and the sports?  And Netflix has a deeply established position. So far I don't see anything compelling enough to make me want to drop Netflix for Apple TV+.  Similarly, while I laud Apple's efforts at creating a better credit card, what about all my airline miles, and it is not as if Apple has created a revolutionary shift in interest rates such that I would want to switch any of my current credit cards to the Apple card.   And I'm not sold on News+ either. The most compelling feature is the new Magazines feature, but unlike Apple Music where I might listen to a wide variety of music from playlists to justify a monthly subscription, if I only read a few magazines and most news is free from other sources, why would I pay for a News+ subscription?  What might have worked better is a lower tier where for $3.99 a month I can pick up-to 5 magazines only.

    I love every attempt Apple makes at new products and services and I am really happy about the overdue refreshes of great products like the Mac Mini, iPad Mini and iPad Air 3. But there are many areas where Apple has room for improvement and needs listen a bit more to feedback from their best customers and from writers like yourself who are well positioned to offer constructive and yet critical commentary.
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  • Reply 83 of 93
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,546member
    jboly said:
    Daniel,
    I think most of your Apple analysis is spot on, and I agree that the completely unwarranted Apple sniping has become a whole cottage industry for the tech press.   

    That said, I think in this case, you are missing an opportunity to give some important feedback to Apple.   The new services are well intentioned, as are many of the hardware product changes we have seen, but lately Apple has sacrificed a lot of what has traditionally been their strong suits, in pursuit of goals that do not agree with many of their customers.   Examples:
    1) QA is suffering. There are many more bugs and less reliable parts of macOS than we would typically see from Apple in past versions.
    2) Extreme minimalism - butterfly keyboard.   Great idea, but when it gets to the point that even small dust particles can cause problems, it's both an engineering and a QA issue.  And to what end?  No reasonable customer would sacrifice reliability for a fraction of a millimeter in thickness.
    3) Extreme minimalism - USB-C ports only.  Unlike when the iMac was the first machine to introduce USB ports in the late 90s, this time around USB-A ports are common.  Most of the rest of the industry is very slow to adopt USB-C and has put USB-A ports on their devices as well or not added USB-C ports at all. This gives peripheral vendors a pass to continue to use cheaper and more ubiquitous USB2 and 3/ USB-A connectivity rather than upgrade to USB-C.  Especially for very low bandwidth and mundane peripherals like mice, keyboards, and charging and connectivity for things like wireless earbuds.   And this means it will be many years, perhaps five or more before USB-C is truly ubiquitous. So Apple is essentially requiring their customers to adopt a less than elegant and awkward use of dongles and USB hubs just to use most of the current devices they own, and even ones that are brand new, but still not supporting USB-C.   Again, no Apple customer would be upset with the inclusion of one or two USB-A ports on a MacBook Pro.   

    With respect to the newly announced services, I'm not sold on Apple TV+ instead of YouTube TV.  Where are the local channels and the sports?  And Netflix has a deeply established position. So far I don't see anything compelling enough to make me want to drop Netflix for Apple TV+.  Similarly, while I laud Apple's efforts at creating a better credit card, what about all my airline miles, and it is not as if Apple has created a revolutionary shift in interest rates such that I would want to switch any of my current credit cards to the Apple card.   And I'm not sold on News+ either. The most compelling feature is the new Magazines feature, but unlike Apple Music where I might listen to a wide variety of music from playlists to justify a monthly subscription, if I only read a few magazines and most news is free from other sources, why would I pay for a News+ subscription?  What might have worked better is a lower tier where for $3.99 a month I can pick up-to 5 magazines only.

    I love every attempt Apple makes at new products and services and I am really happy about the overdue refreshes of great products like the Mac Mini, iPad Mini and iPad Air 3. But there are many areas where Apple has room for improvement and needs listen a bit more to feedback from their best customers and from writers like yourself who are well positioned to offer constructive and yet critical commentary.
    Your rationale, particularly on item #3, makes me want to bang my head on the desk. USB-C/Thunderbolt is a faster port. I would rather have a dongle for backward compatibility to the slower tech now than have a slow port/chokepoint built into the machine and taking up space for as long as I use it. Inclusion of a USB-A port would require a redesigned body for MBP, because the old port necessitates a bigger hole, which necessitates enough material surrounding that bigger hole to keep from damaging the case by accidentally levering a USB plug while inserted into the machine. Going all-in on USB-C is no more draconian than prior decisions to leave out the floppy disc and CD Drives. At some point, it's not necessary to accommodate a waning technology inside the case, requiring users to haul around legacy hardware they use less and less. I like the smaller profile of my MBP and would rather not have it be bigger and heavier just to accommodate a legacy port/chokepoint. Your "no Apple customer would be upset" statement above is therefore negated. Finally, if you think adoption of USB-C is slow now, imagine what it would be if a company as big as Apple didn't go all-in on the standard? Apple's choice will actually speed broad adoption of USB-C. This was the right choice for a forward-looking company.

    There are other things above that are also worth refuting, but I'll stop there.
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  • Reply 84 of 93
    cgWerkscgwerks Posts: 2,952member
    AppleZulu said:
    Most of of the time, Apple rollouts follow iPhone’s actual path, which was a long-game of wobbly rollout with incremental improvements until success was achieved, at which point everyone suddenly thinks it was an instant success. ... Last week’s services announcement was part of a long game. It’s a strategy of developing services, hardware and software together, all reinforcing each other. That strategy isn’t geared to quarterly earnings reports or the online commentariat. To see if it’s working, check back in maybe five years. 
    What is there to succeed at, this time, though?
    Another media streaming service? Another news aggregator? Another credit card?

    Like I said earlier... who even cares if they succeed or not at this stuff? Only AAPL shareholders. None of it is going to change the world for the better, and might change if for the worse. Not that every single Apple product has been a world-changer, but this isn't even in the running.

    I could just ignore this, I guess. They refreshed the hardware, mostly, via press-release. My concern comes with the fact that they seem to think this is the future of Apple and that they made a big event out of this while just press releases for much more important stuff (which seems to confirm 'the future' stuff). As much as that is the case, it worries me.

    rogifan_new said:
    With slowing hardware sales I fear we’re going to see a lot more from Apple that we don’t care about. It’s all going to be stuff where Apple can charge a monthly fee or will get a cut of someone else’s monthly fee. But it’s ludicrous to me that we should assume anything Apple does will be successful because iPhone. Heck even Warren Buffett is skeptical about Apple getting into original content and said the company is allowed to fail now and then. That’s certainly not a ringing endorsement.
    Yeah. It's more than they think it is the future. For all I care, they can bring out a new line of canned baked beans, and try to reinvent silly-putty. They've got tons of cash to play with. But, when those things start overshadowing the important stuff, I get concerned.

    As for slowing hardware sales, I suppose that is a bit just a part of reality (for everyone), but for Apple it also seems a bit like part self-fulfilling prophecy.

    rogifan_new said:
    There was nothing Apple announced last week where I thought wow this is better than what exists right now. IMO all these services are driven by financial considerations not great products that solve problems and delight customers.
    Exactly. Or, to put it another way, corporatization and bean counters, instead of what Steve said was important. So, I'm disagreeing with the article... while we can never know for sure, I think Steve would be wondering what happened to his beloved company. He's probably make some comment like... "what, I'm gone for a few years and you've already taken Apple back to the early-90s mentality?"

    StrangeDays said:
    Neither Siri nor iCloud are failures, you’re high. All voice assistants are of limited use, and Siri is no different - texts, reminders, home automation are the bread and butter. iCloud is fine, I use it daily without issue as do millions. 
    About the only thing Siri is good for is, 'tell me a funny joke' type stuff, and maybe turning the WiFi off since Apple removed easy access to that. iCloud, I'll admit, has gotten way, way better than the MobileMe days. But, it's still kind of kludgy in a number of ways. I'd say it is now workable and generally reliable. Nothing to write home about.

    AppleZulu said:
    Don't like the iPhone example? How about Apple Watch? When it was introduced, the skeptics/naysayers assured us all that no one even wears watches anymore, and that there was very little reason for anyone to want one. Now, go to any populated area, and you'll see Apple Watches all around you. Is that a guarantee that everything Apple proposes will work? No. But when the skeptics/naysayers lean on the same tired criticisms in their pronouncements of doom, it's a pretty good bet to roll out the same mockery in response. Odds are that the naysayers/skeptics will be wrong once again. 
    I'm not sure anyone is announcing doom, and especially not near-term. And, for every naysayer/skeptic, there is a fanboy around the forums who also thinks every mistake Apple makes is gold. I am concerned about Apple long-term if they continue to (what I see as) corporatizing, instead of following Steve's principal of building the best stuff that solves problems, which results in success.

    As for the Watch, I'll admit that it has done better than I would have guess... largely driven by the health/fitness vertical (which is a pretty big vertical) that I wouldn't have initially recognized. The problem there, though, is that what it is primarily working on is kind of health-junk-science that we don't know how long will last. Will it be able to adapt if/when that happens? Don't know. Outside of that, I still think it is mostly a product in search of a use-case. The cellular ability is the only real game-changer if it eventually gets un-tethered enough from the phone.
    elijahg
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  • Reply 85 of 93
    matrix077matrix077 Posts: 868member
    AppleZulu said:
    AppleZulu said:
    This reminds me off people who throw out the “PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in.” quote (from Palm’s then CEO) any time there is skepticism over a new Apple product/service. As if anything Apple does is guaranteed to follow the iPhone path or its impossible for Apple to release a product or service that’s not successful.
    The peanut gallery always forgets what “the iPhone path” actually was. Then they negatively compare whatever Apple is doing now with a fictional version of Apple’s prior history. 

    Most of of the time, Apple rollouts follow iPhone’s actual path, which was a long-game of wobbly rollout with incremental improvements until success was achieved, at which point everyone suddenly thinks it was an instant success. 

    And no, not everything will succeed, and when something doesn’t, the peanut gallery will crow about how they were right all along, ignoring all the many other successes they also first declared to be sure failures. 

    Last week’s services announcement was part of a long game. It’s a strategy of developing services, hardware and software together, all reinforcing each other. That strategy isn’t geared to quarterly earnings reports or the online commentariat. To see if it’s working, check back in maybe five years. 
    People throw out this quote to mock skeptics/naysayers. I saw someone use it last week in response to a comment from a credit card exec who said they were already doing everything Apple announced in the keynote. They didn’t refute what this exec said, they just threw out that quote in a snarky way.

    There was nothing Apple announced last week where I thought wow this is better than what exists right now. IMO all these services are driven by financial considerations not great products that solve problems and delight customers.
    Don't like the iPhone example? How about Apple Watch? When it was introduced, the skeptics/naysayers assured us all that no one even wears watches anymore, and that there was very little reason for anyone to want one. Now, go to any populated area, and you'll see Apple Watches all around you. Is that a guarantee that everything Apple proposes will work? No. But when the skeptics/naysayers lean on the same tired criticisms in their pronouncements of doom, it's a pretty good bet to roll out the same mockery in response. Odds are that the naysayers/skeptics will be wrong once again. 

    ..or AirPods with cigarettes in the ears meme..

    not every thing Apple does will be successful & that’s OK but the whining are so tiresome. 
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  • Reply 86 of 93
    I honestly don't believe there are many Apple 'haters' among tech journalists. 

    But there are contrarians. Journalists who deliberately pose an anti-thesis to any given Apple product or narrative. Why has this been on the rise the last ten years? Because now Apple is the behemoth, and that almost automatically places journalists in a situation where they have to be not only critical to Apple - but in direct opposition. 

    Which is a sad state of affairs to be honest. Because then Facebook can do all its shit vis-a-vis privacy. Google can get away with how Android looks right now (hint: security on Android is a fucking mess) etc. 

    So when Apple News+ is presented, Casey Newton from Verge just immediately writes it off with a snarky remark. The same guy who's writing about how bad the news industry is treated by Facebook. Well Casey, here's an attempt at doing it better - maybe try it out before posting your unfounded opinion? 

    But again, I don't see these journalists as haters - I just wish they had better analytical skills and waited for more information before passing judgement. 

    That said, the lesson identified for Apple should be this: When you invite tech journalists, have something they can try out or watch. Because they friggin' HAVE to write something, when invited to an Apple event. If they don't, their magazine/publication loses money. 
    tenthousandthings
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  • Reply 87 of 93
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,772member


    (hint: security on Android is a fucking mess) 
    and you were doing so good when staying on topic. Then you had to add an unrelated "yeah some other journalist said this so it must be true" FUD-dropping. As you say:
    "Journalists who deliberately pose an anti-thesis to any given Apple  Google/Android product or narrative"

    I do pretty much agree with the rest of your post tho. Good comments overall.
    edited April 2019
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  • Reply 88 of 93
    AppleZuluapplezulu Posts: 2,546member
    cgWerks said:
    AppleZulu said:
    Most of of the time, Apple rollouts follow iPhone’s actual path, which was a long-game of wobbly rollout with incremental improvements until success was achieved, at which point everyone suddenly thinks it was an instant success. ... Last week’s services announcement was part of a long game. It’s a strategy of developing services, hardware and software together, all reinforcing each other. That strategy isn’t geared to quarterly earnings reports or the online commentariat. To see if it’s working, check back in maybe five years. 
    What is there to succeed at, this time, though?
    Another media streaming service? Another news aggregator? Another credit card?

    Like I said earlier... who even cares if they succeed or not at this stuff? Only AAPL shareholders. None of it is going to change the world for the better, and might change if for the worse. Not that every single Apple product has been a world-changer, but this isn't even in the running.

    I could just ignore this, I guess. They refreshed the hardware, mostly, via press-release. My concern comes with the fact that they seem to think this is the future of Apple and that they made a big event out of this while just press releases for much more important stuff (which seems to confirm 'the future' stuff). As much as that is the case, it worries me.

    rogifan_new said:
    With slowing hardware sales I fear we’re going to see a lot more from Apple that we don’t care about. It’s all going to be stuff where Apple can charge a monthly fee or will get a cut of someone else’s monthly fee. But it’s ludicrous to me that we should assume anything Apple does will be successful because iPhone. Heck even Warren Buffett is skeptical about Apple getting into original content and said the company is allowed to fail now and then. That’s certainly not a ringing endorsement.
    Yeah. It's more than they think it is the future. For all I care, they can bring out a new line of canned baked beans, and try to reinvent silly-putty. They've got tons of cash to play with. But, when those things start overshadowing the important stuff, I get concerned.

    As for slowing hardware sales, I suppose that is a bit just a part of reality (for everyone), but for Apple it also seems a bit like part self-fulfilling prophecy.

    rogifan_new said:
    There was nothing Apple announced last week where I thought wow this is better than what exists right now. IMO all these services are driven by financial considerations not great products that solve problems and delight customers.
    Exactly. Or, to put it another way, corporatization and bean counters, instead of what Steve said was important. So, I'm disagreeing with the article... while we can never know for sure, I think Steve would be wondering what happened to his beloved company. He's probably make some comment like... "what, I'm gone for a few years and you've already taken Apple back to the early-90s mentality?"

    StrangeDays said:
    Neither Siri nor iCloud are failures, you’re high. All voice assistants are of limited use, and Siri is no different - texts, reminders, home automation are the bread and butter. iCloud is fine, I use it daily without issue as do millions. 
    About the only thing Siri is good for is, 'tell me a funny joke' type stuff, and maybe turning the WiFi off since Apple removed easy access to that. iCloud, I'll admit, has gotten way, way better than the MobileMe days. But, it's still kind of kludgy in a number of ways. I'd say it is now workable and generally reliable. Nothing to write home about.

    AppleZulu said:
    Don't like the iPhone example? How about Apple Watch? When it was introduced, the skeptics/naysayers assured us all that no one even wears watches anymore, and that there was very little reason for anyone to want one. Now, go to any populated area, and you'll see Apple Watches all around you. Is that a guarantee that everything Apple proposes will work? No. But when the skeptics/naysayers lean on the same tired criticisms in their pronouncements of doom, it's a pretty good bet to roll out the same mockery in response. Odds are that the naysayers/skeptics will be wrong once again. 
    I'm not sure anyone is announcing doom, and especially not near-term. And, for every naysayer/skeptic, there is a fanboy around the forums who also thinks every mistake Apple makes is gold. I am concerned about Apple long-term if they continue to (what I see as) corporatizing, instead of following Steve's principal of building the best stuff that solves problems, which results in success.

    As for the Watch, I'll admit that it has done better than I would have guess... largely driven by the health/fitness vertical (which is a pretty big vertical) that I wouldn't have initially recognized. The problem there, though, is that what it is primarily working on is kind of health-junk-science that we don't know how long will last. Will it be able to adapt if/when that happens? Don't know. Outside of that, I still think it is mostly a product in search of a use-case. The cellular ability is the only real game-changer if it eventually gets un-tethered enough from the phone.
    RE: "What is there to succeed at, this time, though?..."

    You're 
    missing the point on this. Apple has never been just a hardware company. At the very top of the keynote, there were three circles on the screen behind Tim Cook. The text in each of the circles was "Hardware," "Software," and "Services." Apple's concurrent co-development of the first two should be very familiar to you if you've paid attention at all over the last several decades. It's at the very core of their business model, and it's what sets them apart from the other hardware and software vendors, who develop their products in a disjointed way that ultimately leads to a lower quality user experience. In the current personal tech environment, the third category of services now has rapidly increasing importance, and true to form, Apple is working to co-develop that part with the other two, rather than treating it as an outside thing that's below their dignity. 

    You may not care yet about content development for television and movies, but if you want the hardware to keep coming, you should. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and others are having increasing success with content development, which drives subscribers to their platforms. Those are all currently available on AppleTV, but Apple is completely unnecessary to access that content. Looking down the road, the old cable TV business model is losing its lock on customers. Streaming platforms and streaming content bundles are becoming more of a thing, and Apple has no guarantees that future alliances or mergers among other parties won't result in Apple being locked out of content access on its devices. If that happens in one form or another, there could be a strong disincentive for customers to buy iPhones and other Apple products. If Apple is suddenly at a competitive disadvantage for a major use case for its personal tech devices, your primary interest in having the nice hardware keep coming will suffer.

    So Apple had a keynote, introduced the three-legged stool, and then said this event was going to focus on the "services" leg. By putting its considerable resources behind developing its own content that will collect a subscriber audience, Apple will suddenly have incredible leverage in the content marketplace. If competitors in the future form some sort of Android/Netflix/Comcast/(or whatever) alliance, they won't so easily be able to pull their apps and content from iOS/TVOS devices, because customers will be split. Apple could just as easily pull its content from other devices and/or dump other services from iOS in retaliation. Do subscribers stay with Apple's content or stay with Netflix (or whatever)? That's just an ugly mess that would enrage lots of customers on a dubious financial gamble, and so it becomes less likely to happen, so long as Apple also holds leverage in that marketplace.

    So yes, the keynote focused on content, which doesn't particularly interest you right now. That doesn't mean Apple's not focused on hardware and software any longer. It means they're thinking beyond the next quarterly report and the short attention span of the peanut gallery commentariat.
    edited April 2019
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  • Reply 89 of 93
    jbolyjboly Posts: 5member
    AppleZulu said:
    jboly said:
    Daniel,
    I think most of your Apple analysis is spot on, and I agree that the completely unwarranted Apple sniping has become a whole cottage industry for the tech press.   

    That said, I think in this case, you are missing an opportunity to give some important feedback to Apple.   The new services are well intentioned, as are many of the hardware product changes we have seen, but lately Apple has sacrificed a lot of what has traditionally been their strong suits, in pursuit of goals that do not agree with many of their customers.   Examples:
    1) QA is suffering. There are many more bugs and less reliable parts of macOS than we would typically see from Apple in past versions.
    2) Extreme minimalism - butterfly keyboard.   Great idea, but when it gets to the point that even small dust particles can cause problems, it's both an engineering and a QA issue.  And to what end?  No reasonable customer would sacrifice reliability for a fraction of a millimeter in thickness.
    3) Extreme minimalism - USB-C ports only.  Unlike when the iMac was the first machine to introduce USB ports in the late 90s, this time around USB-A ports are common.  Most of the rest of the industry is very slow to adopt USB-C and has put USB-A ports on their devices as well or not added USB-C ports at all. This gives peripheral vendors a pass to continue to use cheaper and more ubiquitous USB2 and 3/ USB-A connectivity rather than upgrade to USB-C.  Especially for very low bandwidth and mundane peripherals like mice, keyboards, and charging and connectivity for things like wireless earbuds.   And this means it will be many years, perhaps five or more before USB-C is truly ubiquitous. So Apple is essentially requiring their customers to adopt a less than elegant and awkward use of dongles and USB hubs just to use most of the current devices they own, and even ones that are brand new, but still not supporting USB-C.   Again, no Apple customer would be upset with the inclusion of one or two USB-A ports on a MacBook Pro.   

    With respect to the newly announced services, I'm not sold on Apple TV+ instead of YouTube TV.  Where are the local channels and the sports?  And Netflix has a deeply established position. So far I don't see anything compelling enough to make me want to drop Netflix for Apple TV+.  Similarly, while I laud Apple's efforts at creating a better credit card, what about all my airline miles, and it is not as if Apple has created a revolutionary shift in interest rates such that I would want to switch any of my current credit cards to the Apple card.   And I'm not sold on News+ either. The most compelling feature is the new Magazines feature, but unlike Apple Music where I might listen to a wide variety of music from playlists to justify a monthly subscription, if I only read a few magazines and most news is free from other sources, why would I pay for a News+ subscription?  What might have worked better is a lower tier where for $3.99 a month I can pick up-to 5 magazines only.

    I love every attempt Apple makes at new products and services and I am really happy about the overdue refreshes of great products like the Mac Mini, iPad Mini and iPad Air 3. But there are many areas where Apple has room for improvement and needs listen a bit more to feedback from their best customers and from writers like yourself who are well positioned to offer constructive and yet critical commentary.
    Your rationale, particularly on item #3, makes me want to bang my head on the desk. USB-C/Thunderbolt is a faster port. I would rather have a dongle for backward compatibility to the slower tech now than have a slow port/chokepoint built into the machine and taking up space for as long as I use it. Inclusion of a USB-A port would require a redesigned body for MBP, because the old port necessitates a bigger hole, which necessitates enough material surrounding that bigger hole to keep from damaging the case by accidentally levering a USB plug while inserted into the machine. Going all-in on USB-C is no more draconian than prior decisions to leave out the floppy disc and CD Drives. At some point, it's not necessary to accommodate a waning technology inside the case, requiring users to haul around legacy hardware they use less and less. I like the smaller profile of my MBP and would rather not have it be bigger and heavier just to accommodate a legacy port/chokepoint. Your "no Apple customer would be upset" statement above is therefore negated. Finally, if you think adoption of USB-C is slow now, imagine what it would be if a company as big as Apple didn't go all-in on the standard? Apple's choice will actually speed broad adoption of USB-C. This was the right choice for a forward-looking company.

    There are other things above that are also worth refuting, but I'll stop there.
    All good points re: USB-C.  But it's not true that adding USB-A means a slower USB-C.  Chipsets can support both.   And if it wasn't clear, I'm not saying don't have USB-C ports.  I'm saying add one USB-A port.  Or at least include a USB-C to Lightning cable.  And I don't think there is a thin case issue.   There's also a 3.5 mm audio jack that still exists on the Pros.   It's about the same thickness as a USB-A port with the same leverage issues.  For that matter if you are worried about leverage hurting the case, then why did they get rid of Magsafe, or not include a Magsafe to USB-C adapter?.  Having your laptop fly off the table when you trip over the power cord is a lot worse than leverage applied to a USB-A port.   

    I get what you are saying, good for Apple to speed up adoption.  And at this point, maybe that's where we are at industry wide.  But I still question the knee jerk to design minimalism that often trumps reasonable function.
    cgWerks
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  • Reply 90 of 93
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,904member
    AppleZulu said:
    jboly said:
    Daniel,
    I think most of your Apple analysis is spot on, and I agree that the completely unwarranted Apple sniping has become a whole cottage industry for the tech press.   

    That said, I think in this case, you are missing an opportunity to give some important feedback to Apple.   The new services are well intentioned, as are many of the hardware product changes we have seen, but lately Apple has sacrificed a lot of what has traditionally been their strong suits, in pursuit of goals that do not agree with many of their customers.   Examples:
    1) QA is suffering. There are many more bugs and less reliable parts of macOS than we would typically see from Apple in past versions.
    2) Extreme minimalism - butterfly keyboard.   Great idea, but when it gets to the point that even small dust particles can cause problems, it's both an engineering and a QA issue.  And to what end?  No reasonable customer would sacrifice reliability for a fraction of a millimeter in thickness.
    3) Extreme minimalism - USB-C ports only.  Unlike when the iMac was the first machine to introduce USB ports in the late 90s, this time around USB-A ports are common.  Most of the rest of the industry is very slow to adopt USB-C and has put USB-A ports on their devices as well or not added USB-C ports at all. This gives peripheral vendors a pass to continue to use cheaper and more ubiquitous USB2 and 3/ USB-A connectivity rather than upgrade to USB-C.  Especially for very low bandwidth and mundane peripherals like mice, keyboards, and charging and connectivity for things like wireless earbuds.   And this means it will be many years, perhaps five or more before USB-C is truly ubiquitous. So Apple is essentially requiring their customers to adopt a less than elegant and awkward use of dongles and USB hubs just to use most of the current devices they own, and even ones that are brand new, but still not supporting USB-C.   Again, no Apple customer would be upset with the inclusion of one or two USB-A ports on a MacBook Pro.   

    With respect to the newly announced services, I'm not sold on Apple TV+ instead of YouTube TV.  Where are the local channels and the sports?  And Netflix has a deeply established position. So far I don't see anything compelling enough to make me want to drop Netflix for Apple TV+.  Similarly, while I laud Apple's efforts at creating a better credit card, what about all my airline miles, and it is not as if Apple has created a revolutionary shift in interest rates such that I would want to switch any of my current credit cards to the Apple card.   And I'm not sold on News+ either. The most compelling feature is the new Magazines feature, but unlike Apple Music where I might listen to a wide variety of music from playlists to justify a monthly subscription, if I only read a few magazines and most news is free from other sources, why would I pay for a News+ subscription?  What might have worked better is a lower tier where for $3.99 a month I can pick up-to 5 magazines only.

    I love every attempt Apple makes at new products and services and I am really happy about the overdue refreshes of great products like the Mac Mini, iPad Mini and iPad Air 3. But there are many areas where Apple has room for improvement and needs listen a bit more to feedback from their best customers and from writers like yourself who are well positioned to offer constructive and yet critical commentary.
    Your rationale, particularly on item #3, makes me want to bang my head on the desk. USB-C/Thunderbolt is a faster port. I would rather have a dongle for backward compatibility to the slower tech now than have a slow port/chokepoint built into the machine and taking up space for as long as I use it. Inclusion of a USB-A port would require a redesigned body for MBP, because the old port necessitates a bigger hole, which necessitates enough material surrounding that bigger hole to keep from damaging the case by accidentally levering a USB plug while inserted into the machine. Going all-in on USB-C is no more draconian than prior decisions to leave out the floppy disc and CD Drives. At some point, it's not necessary to accommodate a waning technology inside the case, requiring users to haul around legacy hardware they use less and less. I like the smaller profile of my MBP and would rather not have it be bigger and heavier just to accommodate a legacy port/chokepoint. Your "no Apple customer would be upset" statement above is therefore negated. Finally, if you think adoption of USB-C is slow now, imagine what it would be if a company as big as Apple didn't go all-in on the standard? Apple's choice will actually speed broad adoption of USB-C. This was the right choice for a forward-looking company.

    There are other things above that are also worth refuting, but I'll stop there.
    Then why do the desktops have both USB A and C? 
    cgWerks
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  • Reply 91 of 93
    cgWerkscgwerks Posts: 2,952member
    peter pinto said:
    So when Apple News+ is presented, Casey Newton from Verge just immediately writes it off with a snarky remark. The same guy who's writing about how bad the news industry is treated by Facebook. Well Casey, here's an attempt at doing it better - maybe try it out before posting your unfounded opinion? 
    That statement got me curious. How is this doing it better? Unless Apple starts hiring credible independent journalists and paying them well to do real journalism, they are just re-arranging and applying Apple-bias to come up with their own curated list of the same crud everyone else is choosing from.

    AppleZulu said:
    You may not care yet about content development for television and movies, but if you want the hardware to keep coming, you should. Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and others are having increasing success with content development, which drives subscribers to their platforms. Those are all currently available on AppleTV, but Apple is completely unnecessary to access that content. Looking down the road, the old cable TV business model is losing its lock on customers. Streaming platforms and streaming content bundles are becoming more of a thing, and Apple has no guarantees that future alliances or mergers among other parties won't result in Apple being locked out of content access on its devices. If that happens in one form or another, there could be a strong disincentive for customers to buy iPhones and other Apple products. If Apple is suddenly at a competitive disadvantage for a major use case for its personal tech devices, your primary interest in having the nice hardware keep coming will suffer.

    So Apple had a keynote, introduced the three-legged stool, and then said this event was going to focus on the "services" leg. By putting its considerable resources behind developing its own content that will collect a subscriber audience, Apple will suddenly have incredible leverage in the content marketplace. If competitors in the future form some sort of Android/Netflix/Comcast/(or whatever) alliance, they won't so easily be able to pull their apps and content from iOS/TVOS devices, because customers will be split. Apple could just as easily pull its content from other devices and/or dump other services from iOS in retaliation. Do subscribers stay with Apple's content or stay with Netflix (or whatever)? That's just an ugly mess that would enrage lots of customers on a dubious financial gamble, and so it becomes less likely to happen, so long as Apple also holds leverage in that marketplace. 
    Hmm, interesting thesis, and thanks for putting it out there. You make some good points. But, I also wonder if this 'competing content' thing isn't creating the problem. Netflix (and a couple of the other services) were at one point big libraries of content. Now that they have started producing their own content, I've noticed the library aspect taking more of a hit. If the trend continues, they'll just be a bunch of separate networks of content competing against one another with the consumer loosing.

    I suppose everyone could gang up against Apple, but wouldn't Apple be better off saying... 'bring all your networks and make them available via our devices'? The last thing we want is Apple content on the Apple platform, and having to go to other platforms to get the other content.

    And, I guess that has been my impression - at least so far - with Apple services. They are 2nd rate, me too type services that depend on the platform. If one wasn't locked into the Apple eco-system, they would likely pick other, better services. If Apple figures the key to making better services, then I suppose that leg of the stool could eventually become strong. Then it is just the competition aspect I'd be nervous about. And, that they keep the other legs strong.

    jboly said:
    All good points re: USB-C.  But it's not true that adding USB-A means a slower USB-C.  Chipsets can support both.   And if it wasn't clear, I'm not saying don't have USB-C ports.  I'm saying add one USB-A port.  Or at least include a USB-C to Lightning cable.  And I don't think there is a thin case issue.   There's also a 3.5 mm audio jack that still exists on the Pros.   It's about the same thickness as a USB-A port with the same leverage issues.  For that matter if you are worried about leverage hurting the case, then why did they get rid of Magsafe, or not include a Magsafe to USB-C adapter?.  Having your laptop fly off the table when you trip over the power cord is a lot worse than leverage applied to a USB-A port.   

    I get what you are saying, good for Apple to speed up adoption.  And at this point, maybe that's where we are at industry wide.  But I still question the knee jerk to design minimalism that often trumps reasonable function.
    Yeah, good points. Plus, many of us were saying to keep at least 1 USB-A on the 15", which I think there would be room. And, if not, making it just a bit bigger would also have helped with cooling. Considering the target market (pros), it would seem a welcomed trade-off. And, no doubt, from a design standpoint of leverage/damage potential, USB-C is awful compared to Magsafe!

    elijahg said:
    Then why do the desktops have both USB A and C? 
    Very good question (if the whole 'adoption' or 'legacy' stuff is true). Even my newer 2018 Mac mini came with USB-A ports, which have been handy.
    elijahg
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  • Reply 92 of 93
    RRKrrk Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Maybe its just a cultural thing but I am finding the Apple events are now getting to the cringeworthy and nauseating stage. I used to look forward to these events and what they would reveal. I still enjoy the tech but the presentation is like watching some cheap B Grade movie. From the 'never been worn before clothing (and just what was that dude thinking wearing the Hannibal Lecter jumpsuit?) and carefully crafted scripts it just screams fakery. You knew what Jobs would be wearing (it was probably the same polo neck, jeans and trainers he put on that morning), Phil with his badly fitting shirts, and scripts that certainly sounded like they had written them themselves. Steve may have been preaching to the converted, but at least it was believeable.
    cgWerks
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