Is this objective reporting or a Apple commercial?
You won't find much in the way of objectivity on AI.
Aside from the fact that they report exclusively on Apple, I totally disagree with that statement. They are not only objective but, when Apple screws up, they say so.
If only the general population cared about privacy and security. They don’t. When something bad happens they expect to be made whole by their bank, their credit card company, somebody. So why care about privacy and security if there’s no real risk and no incentive to act?
It don't think it is that they don't care - it is that they are willing to give it up for perceived value.
In the US, the entire risk of fraud is on the bank. Debtors need be reasonably diligent, but the FCRA protects consumers. And banks write off the losses as a cost of doing business. At 20%+ interest, this is easy to do.
I saw an odd purchase on a card once. It was like $8, but just didn't recognize the address. So I called the bank. The clerk looked it up, and said, "I see that. I'll reverse the charge." I said, "no, i likely bought that, I just don't recognize the location. Tell me the address and name of the business." The clerk audibly sighed and said, "we are instructed to not spend time getting this information. It is faster to just reverse the charge." and essentially got to the "has this resolved your issue" part of the script and essentially hung up.
I image there is a record of this, and the system flags people trying to get a lot of free coffee.
I find this pretty hard to believe - not saying that it didn't happen to you, but that it's hard for me to believe. In 30+ years of card ownership, unauthorized charges have happened to me literally a few dozen times. The bank *never* just offered to reverse the charges - there was always a dispute form to be filled out. But the last such occurrence was a good 5 years ago, so maybe things have gotten more lax?
.... Except, you will get a clue. Every time
you make a purchase on Apple Card, you will get a notification about it
so the first time a thief buys anything, you'll know. ...
This, for me, is THE main way to prevent fraud. I assume that thieves will eventually crack any security you want to put on something. So, early detection is critical. All of my cards now alert me with a text message whenever any transaction occurs on them. And, I have caught 2 instances of fraud that way. The first was when I got an alert of a $25 charge at a BP station. Since I hadn't bought any gas I immediately called the credit card company and they told the charge had been made 300 miles away and removed the charge. The second was for a similar amount.
We are always lectured to "check you statement". But, in both cases I probably would have assumed (a month later) that the charges were legitimate.
My other main way to prevent fraud is to (attempt to) only shop where they take Apple Pay. Since I started that, none of my cards have been hacked (knock on wood!). (and I do balance and check my statement every month!).
It will be hilarious when the card gets released and we'll be reading comments from mad people who wanted to get the card, but get rejected, due to a poor credit score.
Is this objective reporting or a Apple commercial?
It's more objective than CNN. If you want to read delusional Apple trashing fake news, then there are plenty of other places where you can get your fix I'm sure.
.... Except, you will get a clue. Every time
you make a purchase on Apple Card, you will get a notification about it
so the first time a thief buys anything, you'll know. ...
This, for me, is THE main way to prevent fraud. I assume that thieves will eventually crack any security you want to put on something. So, early detection is critical. All of my cards now alert me with a text message whenever any transaction occurs on them. And, I have caught 2 instances of fraud that way. The first was when I got an alert of a $25 charge at a BP station. Since I hadn't bought any gas I immediately called the credit card company and they told the charge had been made 300 miles away and removed the charge. The second was for a similar amount.
We are always lectured to "check you statement". But, in both cases I probably would have assumed (a month later) that the charges were legitimate.
My other main way to prevent fraud is to (attempt to) only shop where they take Apple Pay. Since I started that, none of my cards have been hacked (knock on wood!). (and I do balance and check my statement every month!).
Traditional credit card companies are happy to eat fraud charges because they simply pass it on to consumers in the form of higher interest rates or fees.
If AppleCard proves to be effective in thwarting most fraudulent activity, then this should reduce the overhead of fraud tax built into Apple’s interest rates, making Apple’s rates even more compelling.
Overall, Apple’s move into the credit card business will move the goalposts of the entire credit card industry, regardless of whether Apple is hugely successful in this endeavor or not.
.... Except, you will get a clue. Every time
you make a purchase on Apple Card, you will get a notification about it
so the first time a thief buys anything, you'll know. ...
This, for me, is THE main way to prevent fraud. I assume that thieves will eventually crack any security you want to put on something. So, early detection is critical. All of my cards now alert me with a text message whenever any transaction occurs on them. And, I have caught 2 instances of fraud that way. The first was when I got an alert of a $25 charge at a BP station. Since I hadn't bought any gas I immediately called the credit card company and they told the charge had been made 300 miles away and removed the charge. The second was for a similar amount.
We are always lectured to "check you statement". But, in both cases I probably would have assumed (a month later) that the charges were legitimate.
My other main way to prevent fraud is to (attempt to) only shop where they take Apple Pay. Since I started that, none of my cards have been hacked (knock on wood!). (and I do balance and check my statement every month!).
Traditional credit card companies are happy to eat fraud charges because they simply pass it on to consumers in the form of higher interest rates or fees.
If AppleCard proves to be effective in thwarting most fraudulent activity, then this should reduce the overhead of fraud tax built into Apple’s interest rates, making Apple’s rates even more compelling.
Overall, Apple’s move into the credit card business will move the goalposts of the entire credit card industry, regardless of whether Apple is hugely successful in this endeavor or not.
Is it GC or Apple determining the rates? I would presume it's Goldman Sachs as the credit provider. It's not Apple loaning the money.
Is it GC or Apple determining the rates? I would presume it's Goldman Sachs as the credit provider. It's not Apple's loaning the money.
Well, GS is obviously the bank, but I doubt that Apple is letting them do what they want in regards to rates and other details.
They obviously have some sort of agreement in place, before Apple decided to partner up with them and get on board with this whole thing.
I can't imagine that Apple is reviewing your creditworthiness and then setting the rate based on your FICO. It's not Apple's money at stake.
IMO It seems like the Apple Card is more along the lines of a store card, offered by the retailer but the terms set by the credit card provider. In this case it would be a far more secure card perhaps, and yeah Apple may have assisted with the design and security features, but still more akin to a store card with a second-party credit card provider deciding on the issuance and terms offered to you.
Do you believe it will actually be Apple doing the credit review and then deciding if you're worthy of their card and setting the rate you'll be paying to the folks loaning the money, in this case Goldman Sachs? That wouldn't make business sense to me since it's not Apple on the hook if they were to misjudge you.
Is it GC or Apple determining the rates? I would presume it's Goldman Sachs as the credit provider. It's not Apple's loaning the money.
Well, GS is obviously the bank, but I doubt that Apple is letting them do what they want in regards to rates and other details.
They obviously have some sort of agreement in place, before Apple decided to partner up with them and get on board with this whole thing.
I can't imagine that Apple is reviewing your creditworthiness and then setting the rate based on your FICO. It's not Apple's money at stake.
...
I have no idea whether it is Apple’s money at stake or not. But it should be. With all that cash earning low interest in bonds and treasuries, this is an opportunity to get a significantly better return on Apple’s cash hoard.
Is it GC or Apple determining the rates? I would presume it's Goldman Sachs as the credit provider. It's not Apple's loaning the money.
Well, GS is obviously the bank, but I doubt that Apple is letting them do what they want in regards to rates and other details.
They obviously have some sort of agreement in place, before Apple decided to partner up with them and get on board with this whole thing.
I can't imagine that Apple is reviewing your creditworthiness and then setting the rate based on your FICO. It's not Apple's money at stake.
IMO It seems like the Apple Card is more along the lines of a store card, offered by the retailer but the terms set by the credit card provider. In this case it would be a far more secure card perhaps, and yeah Apple may have assisted with the design and security features, but still more akin to a store card with a second-party credit card provider deciding on the issuance and terms offered to you.
Do you believe it will actually be Apple doing the credit review and then deciding if you're worthy of their card and setting the rate you'll be paying to the folks loaning the money, in this case Goldman Sachs? That wouldn't make business sense to me since it's not Apple on the hook if they were to misjudge you.
Just to clarify, no I do not believe that Apple has anything to do with reviewing anybody's application. Of course they don't.
I just believe that Apple has agreements in place with GS, as to what the details are for the card, such as interest rate and other features for the card, like the cash back amounts etc.
We all know how Apple likes to control things and they wouldn't just enter into a partnership with GS, where Apple lets GS do whatever they want.
If only the general population cared about privacy and security. They don’t. When something bad happens they expect to be made whole by their bank, their credit card company, somebody. So why care about privacy and security if there’s no real risk and no incentive to act?
It don't think it is that they don't care - it is that they are willing to give it up for perceived value.
In the US, the entire risk of fraud is on the bank. Debtors need be reasonably diligent, but the FCRA protects consumers. And banks write off the losses as a cost of doing business. At 20%+ interest, this is easy to do.
I saw an odd purchase on a card once. It was like $8, but just didn't recognize the address. So I called the bank. The clerk looked it up, and said, "I see that. I'll reverse the charge." I said, "no, i likely bought that, I just don't recognize the location. Tell me the address and name of the business." The clerk audibly sighed and said, "we are instructed to not spend time getting this information. It is faster to just reverse the charge." and essentially got to the "has this resolved your issue" part of the script and essentially hung up.
I image there is a record of this, and the system flags people trying to get a lot of free coffee.
I find this pretty hard to believe - not saying that it didn't happen to you, but that it's hard for me to believe. In 30+ years of card ownership, unauthorized charges have happened to me literally a few dozen times. The bank *never* just offered to reverse the charges - there was always a dispute form to be filled out. But the last such occurrence was a good 5 years ago, so maybe things have gotten more lax?
I'm in the ~40+ years area, and I too have only had a couple. Decades ago I my house was burgled, and the stolen cards used fraudulently. I notified within minutes, with a followup letter. The charged were removed with no further problem. I had one within the year and one call took care of it. No form.
Traditional credit card companies are happy to eat fraud charges because they simply pass it on to consumers in the form of higher interest rates or fees.
If AppleCard proves to be effective in thwarting most fraudulent activity, then this should reduce the overhead of fraud tax built into Apple’s interest rates, making Apple’s rates even more compelling.
Overall, Apple’s move into the credit card business will move the goalposts of the entire credit card industry, regardless of whether Apple is hugely successful in this endeavor or not.
I seriously doubt the savings from the overhead cost of fraud will result in a lowering of rates. That's pure profit to...well...either GS or Apple. What will the interest rates be? Whatever they can charge, and they know, to the dime, what the market will bear.
I am willing to participate in this game they play because they set it up, and set the rules. I buy things from merchants that make it easy, and this is the risk they take when they decided to take credit cards.
Some years ago, I was doing a home improvement project. The vendor had to make a last minute change, and offered me a deal on some new equipment that was not included in the financing they had already approved and paid. I offered to pay the difference on a credit card, and gave them the number. about 3 years pass, and I get a call: "we never charged your card." My first thought was, "sure, sure..." But I said, rightfully, "tell me the card number and dates, and I'll check." He did, and I called the bank. True enough, it was never charged. Did I make good on the amount for a few hundred bucks? Sure. Could I have refused, yes (I had a receipt) but that was certainly not fair.
1. Are Visa and Mastercard publicly traded companies? 2. Could Apple replace Goldman Sachs if it doesn't like their performance in the future? 3. Could Apple replace Mastercard if it doesn't like their performance in the future? 4. Is Goldman Sachs a publicly traded company?
Is this objective reporting or a Apple commercial?
Why don't you point out which part of the article is false, or a lie? Would love to know.
Also, if you'd like articles shitting on Apple, there's only around 67,920 other website options. Feel free to take joy spending time on those, instead of coming here and getting upset about the lack of anti-Apple slant in the reporting.
Check out this entity’s posting history and you’ll understand. Then block it. Problem solved.
If only the general population cared about privacy and security. They don’t. When something bad happens they expect to be made whole by their bank, their credit card company, somebody. So why care about privacy and security if there’s no real risk and no incentive to act?
It don't think it is that they don't care - it is that they are willing to give it up for perceived value.
In the US, the entire risk of fraud is on the bank. Debtors need be reasonably diligent, but the FCRA protects consumers. And banks write off the losses as a cost of doing business. At 20%+ interest, this is easy to do.
I saw an odd purchase on a card once. It was like $8, but just didn't recognize the address. So I called the bank. The clerk looked it up, and said, "I see that. I'll reverse the charge." I said, "no, i likely bought that, I just don't recognize the location. Tell me the address and name of the business." The clerk audibly sighed and said, "we are instructed to not spend time getting this information. It is faster to just reverse the charge." and essentially got to the "has this resolved your issue" part of the script and essentially hung up.
I image there is a record of this, and the system flags people trying to get a lot of free coffee.
That’s only part of it. In the USA and a handful of other countries, the frog protection is subsidized through the merchant fees. The card company basically charges merchants an “insurance fee” to protect from known fraudulent claims. These insurance fees add up way faster than they are paid out, creating substantial revenue for the banks.
This is different from the bigger portion of the world, that use pin #’s for most purchases. Pins are a fine security that the US doesn’t fully adopt, most likely because of bank lobbyists.
Sign me up. If they released this in my country I would sign up in a hearbeat. I would consolidate all my credit cards into just one Apple Card by pay them off and cancel them as soon as possible. There are no needs for second or third cards. One is enough, which covers my travel needs and local purchases.
Is it GC or Apple determining the rates? I would presume it's Goldman Sachs as the credit provider. It's not Apple's loaning the money.
Well, GS is obviously the bank, but I doubt that Apple is letting them do what they want in regards to rates and other details.
They obviously have some sort of agreement in place, before Apple decided to partner up with them and get on board with this whole thing.
I can't imagine that Apple is reviewing your creditworthiness and then setting the rate based on your FICO. It's not Apple's money at stake.
IMO It seems like the Apple Card is more along the lines of a store card, offered by the retailer but the terms set by the credit card provider. In this case it would be a far more secure card perhaps, and yeah Apple may have assisted with the design and security features, but still more akin to a store card with a second-party credit card provider deciding on the issuance and terms offered to you.
Do you believe it will actually be Apple doing the credit review and then deciding if you're worthy of their card and setting the rate you'll be paying to the folks loaning the money, in this case Goldman Sachs? That wouldn't make business sense to me since it's not Apple on the hook if they were to misjudge you.
Just to clarify, no I do not believe that Apple has anything to do with reviewing anybody's application. Of course they don't.
I just believe that Apple has agreements in place with GS, as to what the details are for the card, such as interest rate and other features for the card, like the cash back amounts etc.
We all know how Apple likes to control things and they wouldn't just enter into a partnership with GS, where Apple lets GS do whatever they want.
I'm thinking about getting this card. I'm going to let others rush to get it first and see how it goes. I have a number of cards. I should get rid of a few of them. I pay my cards off every month. I don't spend more than I can afford to pay it off. Like anything else, you need a little self-control. That 2 or 3 percent cash back is FREE MONEY. So long as you pay off the card every month, you have zero interest to pay out. If you're paying 18% interest and yet only getting 2% cash back, you're on the losing end if you don't pay the card off every month. You need to have self-control. Don't spend beyond your means. You don't have to keep up with the Jones. I get a new iPhone every 4 years. Had a iPhone 4, 6 and now my current XS. I was almost going to go for a 5th year on my iPhone 6 as it still worked pretty good. That iPhone 4 going into it's 4th year was really SSSLLLOOOOWWW. At times drove me nuts. Even dumb phones I would keep for 4 years.
It's interesting to see how Apple is taking its own spin on a credit card. It's something else to lock people into Apple's Ecosystem as you can't use the card on Android. There's a lot of features that make it interesting. Some of these features I could see coming to other cards. That could be a good thing. Even though you may not get Apple's Card, some of those benefits could be coming to you on the card you already have. They see what Apple is doing and people like it and go, we could do that also.
Comments
I assume that thieves will eventually crack any security you want to put on something. So, early detection is critical.
All of my cards now alert me with a text message whenever any transaction occurs on them. And, I have caught 2 instances of fraud that way. The first was when I got an alert of a $25 charge at a BP station. Since I hadn't bought any gas I immediately called the credit card company and they told the charge had been made 300 miles away and removed the charge. The second was for a similar amount.
We are always lectured to "check you statement". But, in both cases I probably would have assumed (a month later) that the charges were legitimate.
My other main way to prevent fraud is to (attempt to) only shop where they take Apple Pay. Since I started that, none of my cards have been hacked (knock on wood!). (and I do balance and check my statement every month!).
Traditional credit card companies are happy to eat fraud charges because they simply pass it on to consumers in the form of higher interest rates or fees.
If AppleCard proves to be effective in thwarting most fraudulent activity, then this should reduce the overhead of fraud tax built into Apple’s interest rates, making Apple’s rates even more compelling.
Overall, Apple’s move into the credit card business will move the goalposts of the entire credit card industry, regardless of whether Apple is hugely successful in this endeavor or not.
They obviously have some sort of agreement in place, before Apple decided to partner up with them and get on board with this whole thing.
IMO It seems like the Apple Card is more along the lines of a store card, offered by the retailer but the terms set by the credit card provider. In this case it would be a far more secure card perhaps, and yeah Apple may have assisted with the design and security features, but still more akin to a store card with a second-party credit card provider deciding on the issuance and terms offered to you.
Do you believe it will actually be Apple doing the credit review and then deciding if you're worthy of their card and setting the rate you'll be paying to the folks loaning the money, in this case Goldman Sachs? That wouldn't make business sense to me since it's not Apple on the hook if they were to misjudge you.
I have no idea whether it is Apple’s money at stake or not. But it should be. With all that cash earning low interest in bonds and treasuries, this is an opportunity to get a significantly better return on Apple’s cash hoard.
I just believe that Apple has agreements in place with GS, as to what the details are for the card, such as interest rate and other features for the card, like the cash back amounts etc.
We all know how Apple likes to control things and they wouldn't just enter into a partnership with GS, where Apple lets GS do whatever they want.
JWSC said:
I seriously doubt the savings from the overhead cost of fraud will result in a lowering of rates. That's pure profit to...well...either GS or Apple. What will the interest rates be? Whatever they can charge, and they know, to the dime, what the market will bear.
I am willing to participate in this game they play because they set it up, and set the rules. I buy things from merchants that make it easy, and this is the risk they take when they decided to take credit cards.
Some years ago, I was doing a home improvement project. The vendor had to make a last minute change, and offered me a deal on some new equipment that was not included in the financing they had already approved and paid. I offered to pay the difference on a credit card, and gave them the number. about 3 years pass, and I get a call: "we never charged your card." My first thought was, "sure, sure..." But I said, rightfully, "tell me the card number and dates, and I'll check." He did, and I called the bank. True enough, it was never charged. Did I make good on the amount for a few hundred bucks? Sure. Could I have refused, yes (I had a receipt) but that was certainly not fair.
This is different from the bigger portion of the world, that use pin #’s for most purchases. Pins are a fine security that the US doesn’t fully adopt, most likely because of bank lobbyists.
It's interesting to see how Apple is taking its own spin on a credit card. It's something else to lock people into Apple's Ecosystem as you can't use the card on Android. There's a lot of features that make it interesting. Some of these features I could see coming to other cards. That could be a good thing. Even though you may not get Apple's Card, some of those benefits could be coming to you on the card you already have. They see what Apple is doing and people like it and go, we could do that also.