Apple looking at updated 4.7-inch iPhone based on iPhone 8 for spring 2020

AppleInsider

A Taiwanese report claims that Apple may revive the iPhone 8 with updated internals early in 2020, but analysts are wary of the proposition.

Apple's current generation of iPhones has moved the product line towards edge-to-edge displays and the use of Face ID instead of Touch ID for security. While the iPhone XS, XS Max, and XR are thought to be the high-end of the Apple product range for iPhones, it is thought that there needs to be a mid-tier model.

Named specs by the report are the "A13" processor expected in the 2019 flagship releases, 128GB of storage, and as single-lens camera. In regards to the processor, Apple took a similar approach with the iPhone SE, using the same A9 processor as the iPhone 6s that was released six months prior.

Apple used the iPhone SE as a budget-friendly offering for emerging markets, and still manufactures it in India.

According to the Economic Daily, Apple will produce a "new iPhone 8," a retread of the smartphone with a 4.7-inch display and lacking elements like Face ID and the TrueDepth camera array. Though a potentially attractive proposition, there is apparently some talk from analysts that it may not be the best idea.

Pointing out the use of high-, mid-, and low-tier devices sold by HTC and Samsung, the unnamed analysts cited in the report suggest the strategy is a failure. While high-end and low-end devices dominate sales, like selling the iPhone SE and the iPhone XS, mid-tier devices are apparently failing to perform, a category an updated iPhone 8 would certainly fit within.

It is suggested the strategy of "old bottle, new wine" isn't innovative enough for the company. Introducing a mid-tier device may canibalize Apple's upper-end model sales, analysts propose, which may not help Apple's overall performance.

mike1

An "XR" with a smaller screen would appeal to some users and I think would sell in enough quantities to justify its existence in the lineup.

AI_lias

Yesterday I read a rumor of the SE being revived, with all screen and 4.7 size. Maybe that's the same rumor.  I think it would sell, to have 8 screen size in SE frame.

henrybay

I hope this rumour is true. I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy).  I much prefer the good old fashioned home button on my iPhone 8. It feels good to touch, is super quick and helps me orientate my phone - even in the dark or when it’s in my pocket.  

Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s. A well designed frame can accentuate the content of a screen, like it does on the iPhone 8 (without silly notches and curved corners). Indeed the iPhone 8 has a perfectly adequate screen size at 4.7 inches and it’s overall proportions are great. 

airnerd

I love my Xr, but give me one that is 4.7" and I'd be thrilled.  Like some other posters, I'm not a huge fan of face ID.  It works great for me 99.9% of the time so for me it isn't a reliability issue.  It is more reliable than thumb print because I hated not being able to open my phone with any moisture on my hand.  But I too used the home button to orient my phone when popping out of pocket.  Now I have to use the rear camera.  I hate that face ID doesn't work when I wake up in the morning and am lying in bed.  Oh well, extreme first world issue there.   

I just want a smaller screen, that doesn't require me to scrooch the phone around to accurately reach the upper corners of a web browser.  I'm 6'2", I don't have small hands.  I have no idea how people with small hands can use this phone.  

usersinceos1

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

wood1208

I would add to this so called reincarnation of iPhone 8 is with dual lens back camera like iPhone XS and WiFi 6. I will definitely buy even my preference is edge-to-edge screen.

mac_128

AI_lias said:

Yesterday I read a rumor of the SE being revived, with all screen and 4.7 size. Maybe that's the same rumor.  I think it would sell, to have 8 screen size in SE frame

eightzero

My spouse will want one. She prefers the SE form factor.

M68000

usersinceos1 said:

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

@usersinceos1 -  the problem is there seems to be no proof without doubt that using face recognition is safe.  Keep hearing a lot of people saying IR waves are all around - and that is true.  The issue that people don't seem to consider is HOW CLOSE TO FACE AND EYES IT IS.  And also HOW LONG AND FREQUENT the exposure is.  People will be bombarded with this all day when they use these new phones.  I for one, would love to know if a user disables Face ID does that mean that the sensor are shut off OR do they still work quietly in the background.

avon b7

Phones sell in low, mid and high end bands.

They sell in huge numbers in all three bands. Taking Samsung as a reference point is a bit strange. You only have to look at any number of statistics to see that all price bands are successful.

I would like to see a small iPhone with a high screen to body ratio with or without FaceID. If cost is an issue, put a rear mounted fingerprint sensor on it or an underscreen scanner. There are a lot if people who prefer smaller options.

elijahg

henrybay said:

I hope this rumour is true. I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy). 

Your retinas are constantly being bombarded by infrared from everything. Ever looked inside an oven? That's "bombarding" your eyes with tens of thousands of times as much IR as the iPhone IR emitter. Gone out in the sun? Same thing. UV is damaging to eyes, IR isn't.

elijahg

M68000 said:

usersinceos1 said:

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

@usersinceos1 -  the problem is there seems to be no proof without doubt that using face recognition is safe.  Keep hearing a lot of people saying IR waves are all around - and that is true.  The issue that people don't seem to consider is HOW CLOSE TO FACE AND EYES IT IS.  And also HOW LONG AND FREQUENT the exposure is.  People will be bombarded with this all day when they use these new phones.  I for one, would love to know if a user disables Face ID does that mean that the sensor are shut off OR do they still work quietly in the background.

Almost as CLOSE AS YOUR EYELIDS. They emit IR. Oh and the sun EMITS IR ALL DAY LONG. Best SHARPIE OVER YOUR PUPILS to prevent IR from anywhere getting in.

tht

Pointing out the use of high-, mid-, and low-tier devices sold by HTC and Samsung, the unnamed analysts cited in the report suggest the strategy is a failure. While high-end and low-end devices dominate sales, like selling the iPhone SE and the iPhone XS, mid-tier devices are apparently failing to perform, a category an updated iPhone 8 would certainly fit within.

The media always finds someone to say this or that.

Obviously, there are a lot of people who’d like to get a X style phone that has a display about 5” in diagonal and will be willing to pay $700 for it. Maybe it will be only 10% of Apple’s iPhone sales volume, but that’s 20m devices a year. Even if it is 10m devices, would that really be a failure?

If it is just a 4.7” iPhone 8 ID device with an A13 in it, would Apple really price it at $600? The current iPhone 8 with 64 GB costs $600 now, and probably will drop to $500 in the fall if it remains in the lineup. They could just drop the 2017 iPhone 8 from the lineup in 2020 and insert this model at $450?

jgojcaj

I know that Apple is veering away from Touch ID and such, but I would LOVE to see an iPhone Classic Line (literally an updated iPhone 8 in three sizes). Keep the same design and keep the same name iPhone Classic but with updated internals every year. I'm a huge fan of Touch ID and the old design. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." The notch iPhones don't do anything design-wise for me.

entropys

Can’t this just have SE physical dimensions? The rest is detail.

henrybay

usersinceos1 said:

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

I would not be so sure about the safety of IR lasers. There are dozens of scientific articles pointing out the dangers of these types of lasers (even at low power). It’s true that there is ambient IR light all around us but this is quite different to shining a concentrated laser beam of IR directly into your retina and cornea. Here is a useful link. 

https://blink.ucsd.edu/safety/radiation/lasers/effects.html

M68000

henrybay said:

usersinceos1 said:

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

I would not be so sure about the safety of IR lasers. There are dozens of scientific articles pointing out the dangers of these types of lasers (even at low power). It’s true that there is ambient IR light all around us but this is quite different to shining a concentrated laser beam of IR directly into your retina and cornea. Here is a useful link. 

https://blink.ucsd.edu/safety/radiation/lasers/effects.html

Thanks for this link,  this agrees with some other things I've found regarding "thermal effects" 

JWSC

mac_128 said:

AI_lias said:

Yesterday I read a rumor of the SE being revived, with all screen and 4.7 size. Maybe that's the same rumor.  I think it would sell, to have 8 screen size in SE frame

I love the SE form factor.  But the prospect of an edge to edge screen doesn’t thrill me.  I get too many false touches at the edges on my current phone as it is.  Super irritating!  Apple’s software isn’t sophisticated enough to identify most false positives.

fastasleep

M68000 said:

henrybay said:

usersinceos1 said:

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

I would not be so sure about the safety of IR lasers. There are dozens of scientific articles pointing out the dangers of these types of lasers (even at low power). It’s true that there is ambient IR light all around us but this is quite different to shining a concentrated laser beam of IR directly into your retina and cornea. Here is a useful link. 

https://blink.ucsd.edu/safety/radiation/lasers/effects.html

Thanks for this link,  this agrees with some other things I've found regarding "thermal effects" 

So, you scientists over here figure out how any of this actually relates to Face ID? Particularly the bit about "Key factors are: Laser wavelength, power density, and pulse duration" and whether Face ID uses tech anywhere close to anything dangerous in this regard? Or just rampantly speculating and erring on the side of unsubstantiated paranoia for good measure?

elijahg

henrybay said:

usersinceos1 said:

henrybay said:

...I don’t trust Face ID because it bombards my retinas with infrared laser dots (which can’t be healthy)....


...Also, edge to edge screens are just another gimmick - like those frameless reading glasses in the early 90’s.,,,

Then, I presume you also stay indoors and only use fluorescent lighting.  After all, the sun and other types of indoor lighting also supply lots of IR radiation, probably much more than the "infrared laser dots" emitted by Face ID..

The point of the edge-to-edge screen is that it provides more screen real estate in a smaller external package.  An SE-sized overall size iPhone with an edge-to-edge screen would have more screen area than the current SE.

I would not be so sure about the safety of IR lasers. There are dozens of scientific articles pointing out the dangers of these types of lasers (even at low power). It’s true that there is ambient IR light all around us but this is quite different to shining a concentrated laser beam of IR directly into your retina and cornea. Here is a useful link. 

https://blink.ucsd.edu/safety/radiation/lasers/effects.html

The iPhones do not use lasers.