Samsung Galaxy Fold teardown suggests poor design decisions with 'massive gaps' [u]

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 34
    sirozhasirozha Posts: 561member
    bigtds said:
    This phone was nothing more than a prototype. An ugly one at that.
    Why is it bad to make a prototype and let some reviewers critique it?
  • Reply 22 of 34
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,135member
    lkrupp said:
    Minor glitch. They’ll sell like hotcakes. Remember when the iPhone X was released? No one was going to shell out $1K for a phone, the Internet said in unison. Now, $1980.00 for a phone that folds and breaks is considered a desirable bargain because it’s Samsung. Do I really need to end this with /s
    Sarcasm doesn't play out well in a Text message. It sounds like it in your head as you write it, but when others read it, they think you're serious. Always good to adding a /s
    cornchipwatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 34
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 1,851member
    sirozha said:
    The only reason Samsung launched this is to be the first in the market, however their plan has backfired and everyone will remember Samsung as the company that did it wrong.
    If Apple ever releases a magical foldable iPhone, it will surely use a Samsung display. I’m not sure why it is so bad for Samsung to have made concept phones with foldable screens and let tech reviewers critique them. 
    Apple will most probably buy their foldable displays from Samsung, but everything else including the screen protection, folding mechanism, and durability, waterproofing will be Apple’s tech. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 34
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    sirozha said:
    The only reason Samsung launched this is to be the first in the market, however their plan has backfired and everyone will remember Samsung as the company that did it wrong.
    If Apple ever releases a magical foldable iPhone, it will surely use a Samsung display. I’m not sure why it is so bad for Samsung to have made concept phones with foldable screens and let tech reviewers critique them. 
    Because, for some reason, Samsung seems to be obvious of problems their devices can have. We’re back to the battery crisis all over again. Though that took just enough time to develop that it wasn’t caught by reviewers before about 2.5 million of the devices were in the hands of consumers. Now, it “blew” up in the very beginning, before they had a chance to send out the devices they already made in fairly large numbers.

    these aren’t “concept” phones. Don’t you understand that? These are phones that were made for sale. Concept devices are often seen under glass, and either don’t function, and are just for people to see how they might look, or are barely functioning, but are only allowed a minute it two of handling.

    samsung must have made at least tens of thousands of these, because those who prepaid for them were to get them late this month. Does that sound like a concept phone? No, it doesn’t. This is a major screw-up. Not every phone has to fail for it to be one either. If just one in 100 goes bad, it’s a screwup—if it’s one in 10, it’s a major disaster. More than that is indescribable.
    muthuk_vanalingamchiaradarthekatpscooter63roundaboutnowberndogRonnnieOBombdoewatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 34
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    sirozha said:
    bigtds said:
    This phone was nothing more than a prototype. An ugly one at that.
    Why is it bad to make a prototype and let some reviewers critique it?
    Again, are you living in a different world than the rest of us? Have you been reading what’s been happening, no? Do you think Samsung made 50 of these to just send to reviewers? If you do, then you’d better go back and read Samsung’s own press releases about this over the last few months.

    this is a production phone. They made at least tens of thousands of them for sale, which were supposed to go out this month. I think it was on the 26th of the month. They now apologized to all of those who gave money, in advance, to reserve their phones. They have been told that Samsung won’t give a new date for the release as they try to fix the problems. This is a major problem for them, as these are NOT concept phones. They are a product that was in the process of being sent out to customers.
    muthuk_vanalingamchian2itivguyradarthekatpscooter63DAalsethroundaboutnowberndogRonnnieOBombdoe
  • Reply 26 of 34
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,334member
    melgross said:
    This is a surprisingly large design error. It’s almost positive that engineers did examine this during the design process, and decided that nothing could be done. Management at these Asian companies is very much top down. It’s difficult for engineering, even for engineering management, to stop a process in motion if executive management at the top levels demands that it go on. That’s why the battery problem of several years ago occurred.

    i understand why this design happened. When the screen folds, the fold area needs to be unrestricted. That simply means that nothing can be attached. Even a seal, or gasket, can cause problems. It’s an inherent flaw in this kind of design. They can seal it when it’s entirely closed, however, with a seal around the edges that touches the two solid sides. But when it’s opening, or completely open, they can’t.

    it will be interesting to see if they can come up with some kind of halfway fix, or suffer the embarrassment of having to withdraw the product completely.

    or really any company with massive corporate bloat & leaders that think they know better than everyone else. See Blackberry. Heck the company I work at. I believe this is a very accurate assessment of what happened though. And it will be interesting to see what they decide to do in the wake of this disaster.
    edited April 24 watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 34
    linkmanlinkman Posts: 916member
    jcs2305 said:
    linkman said:
    This speaks volumes about how weak Samsung's testing is and their rush to market overwhelms engineering principles.
    From what I keep hearing they have been developing this thing for years.... Which I think makes the whole thing even worse?  They didn't slap it together in a year.. they took years to develop and test and it still turned out like this?
    From what we can tell Samsung gave out a small number of these to reporters/reviewers and plenty of screen failures occurred after just 1 to 2 days. It's almost impossible to imagine that Samsung didn't experience that in their testing or they did zero end to end testing before letting these units out to non-Samsung testers.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 34
    supadav03supadav03 Posts: 451member
    sirozha said:
    bigtds said:
    This phone was nothing more than a prototype. An ugly one at that.
    Why is it bad to make a prototype and let some reviewers critique it?
    Nothing wrong with releasing a prototype or proof-of-concept phone, but that’s not what this was. This was a production phone releasing for sale to the mass market. It was originally suppose to release April 26th to the US & Europe. That’s 2 days from now. See the problem now? 
    n2itivguyroundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 34
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    A phone is a powerful tool and the ability for it to fold out to a larger display for more practical use is appealing. I would not mind something like 2 or 3 independent displays that come together with a minimal gap in between the displays. It seems like it would be much more reliable than a piece of plastic that folds and is inherent subject to stress forces over time.
    This is exactly the design I proposed here a while back.  Two rigid glass displays, when folded each abuts a raised area (a nub) on the central hinge.  When unfolding, at the last moment the nub recedes so the the two displays can come together.  Only for the briefest interval would either display edge be open to the air.  And then, when closing, they separate and immediately the hinge nub rises back up in tight contact along the exposed edges, acting first to push away any debris that may attempt to be introduced and then to protect the screen edges all along their now separated edges.  

    Fully opened with two displays adjoined.  Zero seam visible.  Hinge nub retracted into hing assembly below displays.
    ________________  
                 .


    Just prior to fully opening, or just as the closing process begins, the displays are separated slightly to allow the hinge nub to deploy between the two displays.
    ________ ________ 
                   .


    Hinge nub deployed to protect edges and prevent debris getting between the two displays.

    ________._______ 


    Folded (hinge nub abuts each edge to prevent debris coming between).  Can’t show perfectly with text characters (there’s only a single hinge nub, not one for each display).

    ________.
    ________.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 34
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    A phone is a powerful tool and the ability for it to fold out to a larger display for more practical use is appealing. I would not mind something like 2 or 3 independent displays that come together with a minimal gap in between the displays. It seems like it would be much more reliable than a piece of plastic that folds and is inherent subject to stress forces over time.
    This is exactly the design I proposed here a while back.  Two rigid glass displays, when folded each abuts a raised area (a nub) on the central hinge.  When unfolding, at the last moment the nub recedes so the the two displays can come together.  Only for the briefest interval would either display edge be open to the air.  And then, when closing, they separate and immediately the hinge nub rises back up in tight contact along the exposed edges, acting first to push away any debris that may attempt to be introduced and then to protect the screen edges all along their now separated edges.  

    Fully opened with two displays adjoined.  Zero seam visible.  Hinge nub retracted into hing assembly below displays.
    ________________  
                 .


    Just prior to fully opening, or just as the closing process begins, the displays are separated slightly to allow the hinge nub to deploy between the two displays.
    ________ ________ 
                   .


    Hinge nub deployed to protect edges and prevent debris getting between the two displays.

    ________._______ 


    Folded (hinge nub abuts each edge to prevent debris coming between).  Can’t show perfectly with text characters (there’s only a single hinge nub, not one for each display).

    ________.
    ________.
    I certainly have no argument there. But marketing wise, two displays, even with a very fine line between them isn’t going to fly against the push of one large display that folds with no line between. That has the public’s imagination. People are strange about things like that. I do imagine that at some point these problems will be solved, one way or the other.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 34
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    melgross said:
    A phone is a powerful tool and the ability for it to fold out to a larger display for more practical use is appealing. I would not mind something like 2 or 3 independent displays that come together with a minimal gap in between the displays. It seems like it would be much more reliable than a piece of plastic that folds and is inherent subject to stress forces over time.
    This is exactly the design I proposed here a while back.  Two rigid glass displays, when folded each abuts a raised area (a nub) on the central hinge.  When unfolding, at the last moment the nub recedes so the the two displays can come together.  Only for the briefest interval would either display edge be open to the air.  And then, when closing, they separate and immediately the hinge nub rises back up in tight contact along the exposed edges, acting first to push away any debris that may attempt to be introduced and then to protect the screen edges all along their now separated edges.  

    Fully opened with two displays adjoined.  Zero seam visible.  Hinge nub retracted into hing assembly below displays.
    ________________  
                 .


    Just prior to fully opening, or just as the closing process begins, the displays are separated slightly to allow the hinge nub to deploy between the two displays.
    ________ ________ 
                   .


    Hinge nub deployed to protect edges and prevent debris getting between the two displays.

    ________._______ 


    Folded (hinge nub abuts each edge to prevent debris coming between).  Can’t show perfectly with text characters (there’s only a single hinge nub, not one for each display).

    ________.
    ________.
    I certainly have no argument there. But marketing wise, two displays, even with a very fine line between them isn’t going to fly against the push of one large display that folds with no line between. That has the public’s imagination. People are strange about things like that. I do imagine that at some point these problems will be solved, one way or the other.
    It’s a tough physics problem to solve; having a bendable display that isn’t made from malleable, deformable and scratchable  plastic.  When I use my iPad, as I am now to type this comment, I feel the hard smooth surface of its display.  Today I bought a new Smart Cover, and before I snapped it on, I grabbed my eyeglass wipe and gave the iPad’s display a good cleaning, pressing fairly hard against the glass.  I’ve become accustomed to the quality and durability of my gadget displays, and so have 100s of millions of others.  Folding displays fail on durability and surface feel, before we even come to the aspect ratio, folded thickness and other problems.  

    When you say you believe these problems will be solved, I’m thinking two rigid displays is a lot closer to that eventual solution. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 34
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,742member
    melgross said:
    A phone is a powerful tool and the ability for it to fold out to a larger display for more practical use is appealing. I would not mind something like 2 or 3 independent displays that come together with a minimal gap in between the displays. It seems like it would be much more reliable than a piece of plastic that folds and is inherent subject to stress forces over time.
    This is exactly the design I proposed here a while back.  Two rigid glass displays, when folded each abuts a raised area (a nub) on the central hinge.  When unfolding, at the last moment the nub recedes so the the two displays can come together.  Only for the briefest interval would either display edge be open to the air.  And then, when closing, they separate and immediately the hinge nub rises back up in tight contact along the exposed edges, acting first to push away any debris that may attempt to be introduced and then to protect the screen edges all along their now separated edges.  

    Fully opened with two displays adjoined.  Zero seam visible.  Hinge nub retracted into hing assembly below displays.
    ________________  
                 .


    Just prior to fully opening, or just as the closing process begins, the displays are separated slightly to allow the hinge nub to deploy between the two displays.
    ________ ________ 
                   .


    Hinge nub deployed to protect edges and prevent debris getting between the two displays.

    ________._______ 


    Folded (hinge nub abuts each edge to prevent debris coming between).  Can’t show perfectly with text characters (there’s only a single hinge nub, not one for each display).

    ________.
    ________.
    I certainly have no argument there. But marketing wise, two displays, even with a very fine line between them isn’t going to fly against the push of one large display that folds with no line between. That has the public’s imagination. People are strange about things like that. I do imagine that at some point these problems will be solved, one way or the other.
    It’s a tough physics problem to solve; having a bendable display that isn’t made from malleable, deformable and scratchable  plastic.  When I use my iPad, as I am now to type this comment, I feel the hard smooth surface of its display.  Today I bought a new Smart Cover, and before I snapped it on, I grabbed my eyeglass wipe and gave the iPad’s display a good cleaning, pressing fairly hard against the glass.  I’ve become accustomed to the quality and durability of my gadget displays, and so have 100s of millions of others.  Folding displays fail on durability and surface feel, before we even come to the aspect ratio, folded thickness and other problems.  

    When you say you believe these problems will be solved, I’m thinking two rigid displays is a lot closer to that eventual solution. 
    I’m not sure that plastic surfaces on displays will ever duplicate the strength and scratch resistance of glass. But newer glass types that can be bent pretty tightly are in the labs now. While it’s all experimental, and therefore too expensive for consumer use, materials technology has been making leaps in theoretical areas that are already showing new products. I expect that eventually, these glasses will make it out of the labs too. When, is the big question.

    but as we can see now, whether the display is on the outside, or inside, it results in a very thick phone. Back when thick phones were normal, they were also small. So pocket use was ok. But these are even thicker, and pretty big. The reviews I’ve seen, particularly on You Tube, don’t reflect this. One was by a guy who’s got an astounding 14 million subscribers, and did a review that was so gushing, it was hard to take, unless, I guess, you’re a Samsung fan. No mention of the thickness. No mention of the problems, or possible problems. Just a love fest.

    that’s what’s going to generate sales for these devices.

    but will people think about how these things are going against what they’ve wanted over the years, which is, yes, thin phones. I know we talk about that negatively, but most people do want thin, particularly as phones get bigger. A thick, big phone is much harder to hold than a thin, big phone. And whether there are two screens or one folding screen, those phones will be thick. And heavy. With a big screen, or two smaller ones, more battery will be needed. More everything, basically.

    i think that when most people understand that, these phones will never become popular. If Apple comes out with something like it, and we can be sure they’re investigating it, along with their patents, it would have to overcome these problems. But with a top phone now costing at least $1,000, and considered to already be too expensive, how can the cost of this be kept down?
    edited April 25 watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 34
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 593member
    melgross said:
    ......., thin phones. I know we talk about that negatively, but most people do want thin, particularly as phones get bigger. A thick, big phone is much harder to hold than a thin, big phone. And whether there are two screens or one folding screen, those phones will be thick. And heavy. With a big screen, or two smaller ones, more battery will be needed. More everything, basically.
    Well, if people argue about "thicker is better", they need to think about how "thick" is good enough, I don't see anyone who "talks negatively" have a clue.

    I do have a lot that I want to say about this, but don't think anyone would listen.
    edited May 11
  • Reply 34 of 34
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,190member
    “If it’s not a stolen design, it’s not a Samsung.”
Sign In or Register to comment.