Quicktime 7, Carbon, Ink, Apple's hardware RAID support predicted to be gone in macOS 10.1...

Posted:
in macOS edited April 30
QuickTime7, Carbon, Ink, and Apple's own hardware RAID support look to be on the chopping block for macOS 10.15, along with the removal of support for 32-bit apps.




It is anticipated Apple will be revealing the various changes it will be making in macOS 10.15 at WWDC 2019 on June 3, and in the run up to the event, leaks and rumors are surfacing with claims of what Apple will be introducing or removing in the update. While many of the reports have centered around user-oriented elements, there are some that developers may also want to be aware could occur.

According to developer Steve Troughton-Smith, macOS 10.15 will lose support for Carbon and Ink, the former being a C-based API, the latter being Apple's handwriting recognition technology introduced in Mac OS X 10.2 "Jaguar." QuickTime 7 and QuickTime plugins are also reportedly disappearing, which could affect some applications that take advantage of the technology for media output.

Dashboard isn't the only thing gone in 10.15 -- so is 32-bit app & plugin support, Carbon, Ink, QuickTime 7 & QuickTime plugins, PPTP, and hardware RAID. You will get Python 3.7 and Ruby 2.6, at least

-- Steve Troughton-Smith (@stroughtonsmith)


The tweet advises PPTP will be removed, though Apple formally stopped support for the VPN client in macOS Sierra 10.12. It is still currently possible to use PPTP, though through third-party VPN clients.

Apple hardware RAID support extinction comes as no surprise, as the hardware needed for it hasn't been produced in many years, under the names the Mac Pro RAID Card and Xserve RAID Card. External RAID hardware and software RAID arrays generated in Disk Utility do not appear to be affected at all.

The latest list of changes is only some of the items that are expected to change in macOS 10.15, with the main confirmed item being the discontinuation of support for 32-bit applications. Apple has warned of the change since High Sierra, with macOS Mojave the last to support 32-bit apps.

Other speculated changes include the introduction of Siri Shortcuts and Screen Time, an update to allow the Apple Watch to perform more authentication-based tasks, and standalone apps for Music, Podcasts and TV.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,007member
    If they have no adequate replacement for QuickTime 7, then I personally just cannot see myself upgrading.
    jdw
  • Reply 2 of 39
    I just bought another Apple TimeCapsule because time Machine support is so craptastic on 3rd party routers. My Netgear R8000 is a pice of sh*t!

    I love the eco-system of Apple products. they need to quit killing stuff that just works.

    I won't miss anything mentioned in the article except PPTP.
    edited April 30 elijahg
  • Reply 3 of 39
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,956member
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    macplusplus
  • Reply 4 of 39
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 881member
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    It's not about "accepting change," some things have no alternative; perhaps you could try being less arrogant occasionally. People have setups that require things like the hardware RAID, and may have spent a lot of money for such a system. There are plenty of places still using PPTP too, and "accepting change" means those people will no longer be able to connect to PPTP VPN servers, often company ones. This again just results in a worse experience for Mac users.
    edited April 30 SpamSandwichElCapitanchemenginavon b7dysamoria
  • Reply 5 of 39
    "Apple hardware RAID support extinction comes as no surprise, as the hardware needed for it hasn't been produced in many years, under the names the Mac Pro RAID Card and Xserve RAID Card. External RAID hardware and software RAID arrays generated in Disk Utility do not appear to be affected at all."

    There are tons of issues with software RAID in Mojave so if they are not fixed/addressed in 10.14.5 or 10.14.6, I would expect to see the continued decline of RAID on macOS. Moving to SoftRAID helps for most users.  Hardware RAID in Mojave with Apple hardware has already been causing issues since initial betas.  External hardware RAID with external controllers (that show as only one drive to macOS) are the key to look for moving forward.
  • Reply 6 of 39
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,580member
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    I've been on the train for a long time too, and the move to Intel was great, because as soon as I bought my first Intel Mac, the difference was day and night between that and my previous Motorola Mac. Motorola had been slacking for a long time and unable to deliver what they promised.

    Tech is always going to move forward and change has to occur.

    Some people will always complain about certain changes when they happen, but there is nobody forcing anybody to upgrade.

    If somebody absolutely must have or relies on some old software or hardware, then the solution is simple, just don't upgrade. Keep using what they have. I still have machines running OS 9, and I recently installed SSD boot drives into them, mostly for fun, as opposed to necessity or need.

    I'm always up to date with the latest Mac OS version on my newest machine. 



  • Reply 7 of 39
    ElCapitanElCapitan Posts: 206member
    Booting from an Apple software RAID has been impossible since 10.12.6, so perhaps Apple could do good and restore the ability both for APFS and HFS+ RAIDs. 
    bsbeamer
  • Reply 8 of 39
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 478member
    elijahg said:
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    It's not about "accepting change," some things have no alternative; perhaps you could try being less arrogant occasionally. People have setups that require things like the hardware RAID, and may have spent a lot of money for such a system. There are plenty of places still using PPTP too, and "accepting change" means those people will no longer be able to connect to PPTP VPN servers, often company ones. This again just results in a worse experience for Mac users.
    Yeah, Microsoft did that a lot, look how much a pile Windows is.
    MisterKit
  • Reply 9 of 39
    I am genuinely curious as to what still uses QuickTime 7. That hasn't been updated in many years (I believe in 2015).
  • Reply 10 of 39
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 478member
    apple ][ said:
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    I've been on the train for a long time too, and the move to Intel was great, because as soon as I bought my first Intel Mac, the difference was day and night between that and my previous Motorola Mac. Motorola had been slacking for a long time and unable to deliver what they promised.

    Tech is always going to move forward and change has to occur.

    Some people will always complain about certain changes when they happen, but there is nobody forcing anybody to upgrade.

    If somebody absolutely must have or relies on some old software or hardware, then the solution is simple, just don't upgrade. Keep using what they have. I still have machines running OS 9, and I recently installed SSD boot drives into them, mostly for fun, as opposed to necessity or need
    I'm always up to date with the latest Mac OS version on my newest machine. 



    Apple was known for dropping obsolete techs, and some loyal customers want the exact opposite.  I don’t know how two things go together.
    MisterKit
  • Reply 11 of 39
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 881member
    DuhSesame said:
    elijahg said:
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    It's not about "accepting change," some things have no alternative; perhaps you could try being less arrogant occasionally. People have setups that require things like the hardware RAID, and may have spent a lot of money for such a system. There are plenty of places still using PPTP too, and "accepting change" means those people will no longer be able to connect to PPTP VPN servers, often company ones. This again just results in a worse experience for Mac users.
    Yeah, Microsoft did that a lot, look how much a pile Windows is.
    There's a difference between keeping cruft like 16-bit compatibility and dropping features a number of people use. PPTP support was actually dropped in Mojave, and students at the entire university campus had to hold off on upgrading while they tested some third party Forticlient system, which they now use. I'd much rather a first party thing than traffic travelling across some unknown third party's servers. Yes there was a few months warning that Apple would drop it when they should have tested it, but a couple of months isn't really that long for a big organisation like a university to fully test something entirely new.
  • Reply 12 of 39
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 384member
    bsbeamer said:
    "Apple hardware RAID support extinction comes as no surprise, as the hardware needed for it hasn't been produced in many years, under the names the Mac Pro RAID Card and Xserve RAID Card. External RAID hardware and software RAID arrays generated in Disk Utility do not appear to be affected at all."

    There are tons of issues with software RAID in Mojave so if they are not fixed/addressed in 10.14.5 or 10.14.6, I would expect to see the continued decline of RAID on macOS. Moving to SoftRAID helps for most users.  Hardware RAID in Mojave with Apple hardware has already been causing issues since initial betas.  External hardware RAID with external controllers (that show as only one drive to macOS) are the key to look for moving forward.

    I was going to say something similar.  Apple’s RAID solutions have sucked big time for a long time, and are a clear and present danger to your data.

    My take is that Apple should just get the hell out of the RAID business because there are plenty of third party solutions that do it very well.

  • Reply 13 of 39
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 478member
    elijahg said:
    DuhSesame said:
    elijahg said:
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    It's not about "accepting change," some things have no alternative; perhaps you could try being less arrogant occasionally. People have setups that require things like the hardware RAID, and may have spent a lot of money for such a system. There are plenty of places still using PPTP too, and "accepting change" means those people will no longer be able to connect to PPTP VPN servers, often company ones. This again just results in a worse experience for Mac users.
    Yeah, Microsoft did that a lot, look how much a pile Windows is.
    There's a difference between keeping cruft like 16-bit compatibility and dropping features a number of people use. PPTP support was actually dropped in Mojave, and students at the entire university campus had to hold off on upgrading while they tested some third party Forticlient system, which they now use. I'd much rather a first party thing than traffic travelling across some unknown third party's servers. Yes there was a few months warning that Apple would drop it when they should have tested it, but a couple of months isn't really that long for a big organisation like a university to fully test something entirely new.
    If they can hold off for an obsolete protocol, they can handle an operating system for two, three years, don’t you think?
    fastasleep
  • Reply 14 of 39
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,452member
    Old news but I'm irked by Apple dropping support for IMAP, CalDAV, CardDAV and WebDAV in Server. Sure, 3rd party solutions exist but they are mostly for Linux and all of them cost a lot if you want push IMAP for iOS.
    elijahg
  • Reply 15 of 39
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,580member
    DuhSesame said:
    Apple was known for dropping obsolete techs, and some loyal customers want the exact opposite.  I don’t know how two things go together.
    That's one of the things I like about Apple. They're not afraid to drop something and adopt something else, making bold moves before anybody else has even dared to think about it.

    I remember buying my first iMac in '99, and the iMac just said screw the floppy drive, I don't need one.

    It was the first legacy-free PC, according to wiki. It was also the first computer in the world to have something completely new at the time, USB exclusively, with no legacy connections.

    I'm not one of those customers who wants the opposite. I want Apple to move forward. If I want nostalgia and old hardware and outdated software and connections, I'll just fire up one of my old Macs.
    edited April 30 macxpress
  • Reply 16 of 39
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,242member
    elijahg said:
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    It's not about "accepting change," some things have no alternative; perhaps you could try being less arrogant occasionally. People have setups that require things like the hardware RAID, and may have spent a lot of money for such a system. There are plenty of places still using PPTP too, and "accepting change" means those people will no longer be able to connect to PPTP VPN servers, often company ones. This again just results in a worse experience for Mac users.
    The arrogance is built into the surname, Krupps. Look up the Krupps Family of Arms. They gave us Hitler, WWI/WWII and so much more before they were completely dismantled as the world's largest arms creators. Whether it's a direct descendant or not the name wreaks of arrogance.
    chemenginelijahg
  • Reply 17 of 39
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,242member
    JWSC said:
    bsbeamer said:
    "Apple hardware RAID support extinction comes as no surprise, as the hardware needed for it hasn't been produced in many years, under the names the Mac Pro RAID Card and Xserve RAID Card. External RAID hardware and software RAID arrays generated in Disk Utility do not appear to be affected at all."

    There are tons of issues with software RAID in Mojave so if they are not fixed/addressed in 10.14.5 or 10.14.6, I would expect to see the continued decline of RAID on macOS. Moving to SoftRAID helps for most users.  Hardware RAID in Mojave with Apple hardware has already been causing issues since initial betas.  External hardware RAID with external controllers (that show as only one drive to macOS) are the key to look for moving forward.

    I was going to say something similar.  Apple’s RAID solutions have sucked big time for a long time, and are a clear and present danger to your data.

    My take is that Apple should just get the hell out of the RAID business because there are plenty of third party solutions that do it very well.

    They aren't and haven't been in the raid business since they stopped Xserve hardware.
  • Reply 18 of 39
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 836member
    Looks like I'll be sticking with 10.14 for a long while, since most of the applications I use are still 32-bit
  • Reply 19 of 39
    elijahg said:
    DuhSesame said:
    elijahg said:
    lkrupp said:
    Painful ride ahead for those who don’t accept change well. I’ve been riding the Apple rollercoaster since 1982. The worst change for me was the move to Intel processors in Macs as I had bought into the RISC vs CISC propaganda and Intel was the enemy. But I got over it. 
    It's not about "accepting change," some things have no alternative; perhaps you could try being less arrogant occasionally. People have setups that require things like the hardware RAID, and may have spent a lot of money for such a system. There are plenty of places still using PPTP too, and "accepting change" means those people will no longer be able to connect to PPTP VPN servers, often company ones. This again just results in a worse experience for Mac users.
    Yeah, Microsoft did that a lot, look how much a pile Windows is.
    There's a difference between keeping cruft like 16-bit compatibility and dropping features a number of people use. PPTP support was actually dropped in Mojave, and students at the entire university campus had to hold off on upgrading while they tested some third party Forticlient system, which they now use. I'd much rather a first party thing than traffic travelling across some unknown third party's servers. Yes there was a few months warning that Apple would drop it when they should have tested it, but a couple of months isn't really that long for a big organisation like a university to fully test something entirely new.
    Specifically regarding PPTP...

    you need to pull up out of the weeds and take a bigger picture view than “Apple dropped support in Mojave and only gave 3 months notice”.

    Whilst that’s true, they announced deprecation of PPTP 2 years prior with Sierra.

    its irretrievably broken as a VPN protocol, and there are complete, prebuilt tool chains that can crack PPTP traffic.

    The theoretical problems were identified nearly 20 years ago, and by 2013ish, people had built simple to use tools to bust it wide open.

    These are fundamental flaws in PPTP, not simply implementation bugs.

    Using it in 2019, is not defensible from a security perspective, as it’s been broken for so long, and known to be broken at a theoretical level for even longer. Using today is arguably worse than doing nothing, as you a pretending something is secure for theatric purposes knowing it just isn’t any use at all.

    Positioning it as “Apple did not give organizations enough time to migrate” when they have a 2 year lead time before dropping it, the thing they need to migrate off is a dumpster fire that is well known to be deeply flawed & vulnerable to widely available attacker tools for the better part of a decade is not a reasonable criticism of Apple, but actually a very deep criticism of that uni’s IT team. 

    chiafastasleeprandominternetpersondysamoriachickn2itivguy
  • Reply 20 of 39
    rcfarcfa Posts: 761member
    Of these, ink and QT components are major losses, unless they are replaced by more modern equivalents.
    jdwdysamoria
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