Apple's famous design team now has no original members left

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  • Reply 21 of 56
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,218member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    fastasleep
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  • Reply 22 of 56
    davgreg said:
    Maybe it has to do with the fact that Tim Cook wants to make TV shows and rent magazines and music instead of making objects to be purchased.
    Of course he does……the more Apple's products can do and access, the more they will sell. The circle of digital life - Hakuna 101011 Matata, Amigo!
    edited May 2019
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  • Reply 23 of 56
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,904member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    There was nothing "Wrong" with the iPhone 4 design. Why change that? Nor the iPad 2. Nor the iMac G5. Or the iMac G4. Or technically the Molar AIO Macintosh G3. By your logic, designs would never change. Why did Apple ditch the cheesegrater Mac Pro for the trashcan, surely that really was "change for change’s sake?"
    edited May 2019
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  • Reply 24 of 56
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,218member

    elijahg said:
    Latko said:
    As deep and rich the history of accomplishments is, the more shallow the present and the future seem to be, comparatively. What the heck has all this talent been doing over the last 5...7 years, where does Marc Newson fit in, what design trends did they lead or follow ? With a (modestly) new design direction for iPads, after so many and more years, why didn’t that get extended across the line-up, and who would allow dated designs like the bigbezel iPads to return in 2019 ?
    Newson, to my understanding, was supposed to be working with Ive on the Apple Watch and maybe the AirPods. That's it. I suspect he's not there anymore but to act as a creative sounding board for him because Jobs' is not around anymore to rein him in. 

    As for allowing dated designs, I think that call gets approved by the CEO, and probably the rest of the leadership, however this has to ultimately get the thumbs up/thumbs down from Cook. If this is the case, then this is very telling on how lacking Cook's taste is on design or the art of visual design, that is. 
    Well he is an ex-Compaq logistics guy after all.
    davgreg said:
    Maybe it has to do with the fact that Tim Cook wants to make TV shows and rent magazines and music instead of making objects to be purchased.
    Probably. Jobs had services like iTools/Mobile Me to enhance customer's experiences on Macs/iPhones, and thus their lives. Cook sees those same services as a cash cow, nothing more.
    My, how you invent motives and insert them into other people. Jobs sold music and movies and TV and magazines for money (not hugs) as well, which is no different Cook selling the same. You people are blowing gaskets over adding new services but are disconnected from reality. If you aren’t interested in the new services, don’t buy them. It’s really simple. You will be free to continue to complain about their hardware the same as ever. 
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  • Reply 25 of 56
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,218member

    elijahg said:

    avon b7 said:

    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.
    I agree, Apple's designs nowadays all seem to revolve around Ive's obsession with thin, rather than anything being particularly clever or a good design in its own right. Thin, whilst nice, isn't necessarily a good or clever design. In fact they're removing clever things like MagSafe in the name of thin.
    Thin means light and that’s a feature I value. My MBP is much easier to take with me for portable work than bulky ass Dells ever were. Which is why they copy them. Thin is also a design constraint, which drives innovation. You can’t get to the devices of the sci-fi future while keeping things looking like the 1990s. 

    Hows MagSafe working out on your iPad? Oh, you don’t need it there? On a device with the same battery life as a MBP?
    fastasleep
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  • Reply 26 of 56
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,218member
    elijahg said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    There was nothing "Wrong" with the iPhone 4 design. Why change that? Nor the iPad 2. Nor the iMac G5. Or the iMac G4. Or technically the Molar AIO Macintosh G3. By your logic, designs would never change. Why did Apple ditch the cheesegrater Mac Pro for the trashcan, surely that really was "change for change’s sake?"
    Your ignorance of Apple product design is astounding. The iPhones and iPads changed because we got bigger yet thinner devices to put into our pockets or hold in our hands, making them better products. The advancements in these devices are too many to list, even as they got smaller on the inside. They are ultra portables. Not so with a desktop.

    As for the MP, again you appear ignorant as to why they went a different direction, and nope, it wasn't simply for change' sake -- which they repeatedly explain they don't do. I take it you didn't read the TechCrunch article where they spoke very candidly as to what they sought out to achieve and what went wrong. Read up.

    https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/transcript-phil-schiller-craig-federighi-and-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/
    fastasleep
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  • Reply 27 of 56
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,797member
    It’s rare for someone to stay at one company for so long. Especially in Silicon Valley. But if we have to read something into this perhaps that team isn’t as powerful inside the company post Steve Jobs as people outside the company think it is. Or maybe with the emphasis to services these guys see the future at Apple as not new kick ass must have products but what service Apple can get people to pay a monthly fee for. Industrial designers have nothing to do with that.
    The ID team supposedly, from what I've read online, still has over-riding power over Engineering in the decision process. In other words, they kind of make the call on the design trend and Engineering has to follow through on that. This, to me, is a problem because it should be the other way around or they have to have equal power to work on the products. 

    As for Services, I'm pretty sure the design process comes from the graphic and UX designers, not the ID team. Industrial Designers in Apple don't do User Interface or software based projects. 

    I think considering that Ive is the last original member, this is probably a hint of what's to come and it's the beginning of him about to walk out Apple's door eventually. It wouldn't surprise me if he does and it's something he should've done a long time ago. I mean we're talking about FOUR veterans that just or are about to leave. That's a big hit to the team. I can understand if they had to leave due to other obligations outside of Apple such as working for AirBnB and/ or to retire, but there's something being 'unsaid' on the real reason (s) so I'm getting this hunch that this is either tied in to being burnt out or they were privy to future plans of Apple and didn't like what they saw, deciding to get out before the SHTF. 

    If Ive leaves, who replaces him?
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  • Reply 28 of 56
    horvatichorvatic Posts: 144member
    Jony is still an original member.
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  • Reply 29 of 56
    Sanctum1972sanctum1972 Posts: 112unconfirmed, member
    It’s rare for someone to stay at one company for so long. Especially in Silicon Valley. But if we have to read something into this perhaps that team isn’t as powerful inside the company post Steve Jobs as people outside the company think it is. Or maybe with the emphasis to services these guys see the future at Apple as not new kick ass must have products but what service Apple can get people to pay a monthly fee for. Industrial designers have nothing to do with that.
    The ID team supposedly, from what I've read online, still has over-riding power over Engineering in the decision process. In other words, they kind of make the call on the design trend and Engineering has to follow through on that. This, to me, is a problem because it should be the other way around or they have to have equal power to work on the products. 

    As for Services, I'm pretty sure the design process comes from the graphic and UX designers, not the ID team. Industrial Designers in Apple don't do User Interface or software based projects. 

    I think considering that Ive is the last original member, this is probably a hint of what's to come and it's the beginning of him about to walk out Apple's door eventually. It wouldn't surprise me if he does and it's something he should've done a long time ago. I mean we're talking about FOUR veterans that just or are about to leave. That's a big hit to the team. I can understand if they had to leave due to other obligations outside of Apple such as working for AirBnB and/ or to retire, but there's something being 'unsaid' on the real reason (s) so I'm getting this hunch that this is either tied in to being burnt out or they were privy to future plans of Apple and didn't like what they saw, deciding to get out before the SHTF. 

    If Ive leaves, who replaces him?
    I suspect either Alan Dye or Horvath will. They're supposedly next in line. 
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  • Reply 30 of 56
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,797member
    horvatic said:
    Jony is still an original member.
    They mention that in the article
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  • Reply 31 of 56
    Latkolatko Posts: 398member
    This article mentions a couple of times the idea of Apple “moving away from hardware”. That isn’t happening. There’s no reason to believe that’s happening. Services is where their growth is, but they still make considerable profits from hardware, and that isn’t changing.
    Agree and that’s exactly why focus now got spread over tens of “also-ran” inititatives instead of few “best-of-industry” products with meticulously detailed design
    edited May 2019
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  • Reply 32 of 56
    JWSCjwsc Posts: 1,203member

    In 1990 I interviewed with Robert Brunner for an ID job.  He was in hiring mode and seemed generally impressed with my portfolio and job history.  I had just completed the first year of my masters degree in industrial design and had the second year to go.  Near the end of the interview I told him that I couldn’t take a job right then but I’d love to come out after I graduate.

    Well, you can guess the rest.  By the following year Brunner had completed his hiring (including Sir Jony) and I got nowhere setting up a second interview.  For all I know I pissed him off by getting an interview and then saying I wasn’t available.

    Chalk it up to a fantastically bad and costly career decision made by a relative youth.  Ah well.  Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

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  • Reply 33 of 56
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    rogifan_new said:
    [...] I suppose Apple could have designed some black AirPods and charged more for them like Jobs did with the black plastic MacBook. ;)
    ...and Cook is now doing with the black keyboard. How is it possible that companies STILL have not learned how much damage things like that do to their relationship with customers?
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  • Reply 34 of 56
    iMAK-imak- Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    I’m just puzzled here.

    When I look at that picture of Jon’s team, I see quite a few people that look like they know nothing about design or just have bad taste in it.

    I can’t imagine Jon hiring anyone that sucks.
    But I always think about how so many people in the works have jobs that they literally do not deserve. 
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  • Reply 35 of 56
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,327member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    You need to get over your 'knock-off' twitch.

    Apple had the, ehem, visionary, idea to take a pair of wired earbuds and make them wireless - by snipping off the wires! LOL

    Do you really think no one else had thought of that before? The design is totally unoriginal! As are all earbuds. That shouldn't surprise you. Did you really think that going completely wireless would mean a huge change in earbud design?

    For form factor, your options are very limited in terms of design. Or do you think the Uhura look will come into fashion?

    What's on the inside is where things can change but that's a different story.

    Just like with phones, designs will look similar. On occasions, very similar. You will see very little difference in exterior design of earbuds as, wait for it, our ears are very similar and there is only so much margin for change but, you know what? Huawei has been there too. Take a look at the FreeBuds plus case. Completely different to the AirPods case. How many different ways do you think there are to pack earbuds into a case? Would you confuse the FreeBuds with the AirPods? Nope.

     Round earbuds? Yep. Huawei has those too.

    As for software, can you see any similarities between Huawei's years old Aperture Mode and Apple's? That's because there are commonly accepted ways if doing things and when they work, they get refined and appear on other systems. It swings both ways. Can iPhone X series phones finally override the screen rotation settings using AI to 'see' if the user isn't upright?

    But if you want to insist in your 'knock-off' antics that's your decision.

    Of course in that case you won't mind if people tell you Apple is copying Huawei with wireless charging of the case, right? Or the rumoured square camera grouping, or tri cameras, or Night Mode or 3D live modelling etc. Because I guess those features will be coming to iPhone this year

    You deliberately point out -  solely - the areas where design and functionality overlap but choose to wilfully ignore the areas where Huawei uses technology that few - or no -other manufacturers have. Logical because your case falls apart if you don't do that.

    So, tell me. Where us Apple's Bone Voice ID?
    Where is Apple's wired reverse charging?

    How long til Apple knocks those off?

    And yes btw, Huawei'/Honor's buds come in black, blue, red etc too. They have done from the very start.


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  • Reply 36 of 56
    DuhSesameduhsesame Posts: 1,278member

    elijahg said:

    avon b7 said:

    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.
    I agree, Apple's designs nowadays all seem to revolve around Ive's obsession with thin, rather than anything being particularly clever or a good design in its own right. Thin, whilst nice, isn't necessarily a good or clever design. In fact they're removing clever things like MagSafe in the name of thin.
    Thin means light and that’s a feature I value. My MBP is much easier to take with me for portable work than bulky ass Dells ever were. Which is why they copy them. Thin is also a design constraint, which drives innovation. You can’t get to the devices of the sci-fi future while keeping things looking like the 1990s. 

    Hows MagSafe working out on your iPad? Oh, you don’t need it there? On a device with the same battery life as a MBP?
    https://snapnator.com/collections/magnetic-chargers/products/snapcable-magnetic-charging-cable-for-apple-macbook-ipad-pro-google-pixelbook-and-huawei-matebook

    Small, magnetic, easy to carry, got four places to plug, and the cable is separated from the main power brick.

    I don't see the point where you have to build a proprietary MagSafe anymore.

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  • Reply 37 of 56
    DuhSesameduhsesame Posts: 1,278member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    You need to get over your 'knock-off' twitch.

    Apple had the, ehem, visionary, idea to take a pair of wired earbuds and make them wireless - by snipping off the wires! LOL

    Do you really think no one else had thought of that before? The design is totally unoriginal! As are all earbuds. That shouldn't surprise you. Did you really think that going completely wireless would mean a huge change in earbud design?

    For form factor, your options are very limited in terms of design. Or do you think the Uhura look will come into fashion?

    What's on the inside is where things can change but that's a different story.

    Just like with phones, designs will look similar. On occasions, very similar. You will see very little difference in exterior design of earbuds as, wait for it, our ears are very similar and there is only so much margin for change but, you know what? Huawei has been there too. Take a look at the FreeBuds plus case. Completely different to the AirPods case. How many different ways do you think there are to pack earbuds into a case? Would you confuse the FreeBuds with the AirPods? Nope.

     Round earbuds? Yep. Huawei has those too.

    As for software, can you see any similarities between Huawei's years old Aperture Mode and Apple's? That's because there are commonly accepted ways if doing things and when they work, they get refined and appear on other systems. It swings both ways. Can iPhone X series phones finally override the screen rotation settings using AI to 'see' if the user isn't upright?

    But if you want to insist in your 'knock-off' antics that's your decision.

    Of course in that case you won't mind if people tell you Apple is copying Huawei with wireless charging of the case, right? Or the rumoured square camera grouping, or tri cameras, or Night Mode or 3D live modelling etc. Because I guess those features will be coming to iPhone this year

    You deliberately point out -  solely - the areas where design and functionality overlap but choose to wilfully ignore the areas where Huawei uses technology that few - or no -other manufacturers have. Logical because your case falls apart if you don't do that.

    So, tell me. Where us Apple's Bone Voice ID?
    Where is Apple's wired reverse charging?

    How long til Apple knocks those off?

    And yes btw, Huawei'/Honor's buds come in black, blue, red etc too. They have done from the very start.


    You sure don't want to understand the difference between EarPods vs. AirPods, so you thought they're just as easy as cutting the cord.

    Just another that wants to look professional but lack of interest to learn how things work, yet still think they know better than average, so they "should" teach the entire industries.

    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    I feel sad that you waste your time on others that don't understand things, and no interest to do so.  They have the freedom to say whatever they want though, so if they don't know better, let it be.
    It's funny that half of the people on any Apple forums got that altitude and stubborn as hell to learn something useful, so why not just pick up some books than persuade them to change?
    edited May 2019
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  • Reply 38 of 56
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,327member
    DuhSesame said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple really hasn't pushed the envelope on design for many years. The iMac being a great example. The 'design' on the interior has got far worse IMO in that period, catering to a philosophy that has taken the product well out of the circle I would like to see it in.

    I hope new blood brings with it a different philosophy and fresh creativity which results in more desirable and practical products. 'practical' in the sense of upgradeability and repairability.

    Even simple things that would have been instant successes have been bogged down from the outset. Case in point: AirPods. They should have been available in black from the get go but I get the impression that Mr Ive would have to fret over exactly which kind of black for a year before signing off on such a product while combatting the goblins in his head constantly telling him 'we only do white earbuds! 
    .
    Yeah no. Doing change for change’s sake isn’t pushing the envelope. Alleviating you of boredom isn’t the purpose of the iMac design. As for it’s interior, take a look at the iMP. 

    Your criticism of AirPods is hilarious. Don’t your chinese knockoffs make theirs in black!?


    You need to get over your 'knock-off' twitch.

    Apple had the, ehem, visionary, idea to take a pair of wired earbuds and make them wireless - by snipping off the wires! LOL

    Do you really think no one else had thought of that before? The design is totally unoriginal! As are all earbuds. That shouldn't surprise you. Did you really think that going completely wireless would mean a huge change in earbud design?

    For form factor, your options are very limited in terms of design. Or do you think the Uhura look will come into fashion?

    What's on the inside is where things can change but that's a different story.

    Just like with phones, designs will look similar. On occasions, very similar. You will see very little difference in exterior design of earbuds as, wait for it, our ears are very similar and there is only so much margin for change but, you know what? Huawei has been there too. Take a look at the FreeBuds plus case. Completely different to the AirPods case. How many different ways do you think there are to pack earbuds into a case? Would you confuse the FreeBuds with the AirPods? Nope.

     Round earbuds? Yep. Huawei has those too.

    As for software, can you see any similarities between Huawei's years old Aperture Mode and Apple's? That's because there are commonly accepted ways if doing things and when they work, they get refined and appear on other systems. It swings both ways. Can iPhone X series phones finally override the screen rotation settings using AI to 'see' if the user isn't upright?

    But if you want to insist in your 'knock-off' antics that's your decision.

    Of course in that case you won't mind if people tell you Apple is copying Huawei with wireless charging of the case, right? Or the rumoured square camera grouping, or tri cameras, or Night Mode or 3D live modelling etc. Because I guess those features will be coming to iPhone this year

    You deliberately point out -  solely - the areas where design and functionality overlap but choose to wilfully ignore the areas where Huawei uses technology that few - or no -other manufacturers have. Logical because your case falls apart if you don't do that.

    So, tell me. Where us Apple's Bone Voice ID?
    Where is Apple's wired reverse charging?

    How long til Apple knocks those off?

    And yes btw, Huawei'/Honor's buds come in black, blue, red etc too. They have done from the very start.


    You sure don't want to understand the difference between EarPods vs. AirPods, so you thought they're just as easy as cutting the cord.

    Just another that wants to look professional but lack of interest to learn how things work, yet still think they know better than average, so they "should" teach the entire industries.
    Fifth paragraph:

    "What's on the inside is where things can change but that's a different story"

    What was done via cable has to be done wirelessly. Power and transmission. It all - logically - has to go into the buds. Along with physical control (playback, volume, voice interaction etc) if wanted.

    From the form factor perspective, which is what I was tackling, things get limited - very quickly. There simply aren't many options to implement.

    No earbud design is original. We've had decades to play with the idea and try things out. Yes, including the general AirPod form factor (but with cables, of course).


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  • Reply 39 of 56
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    Latko said:
    With a (modestly) new design direction for iPads, after so many and more years, why didn’t that get extended across the line-up, and who would allow dated designs like the bigbezel iPads to return in 2019 ?
    The same people who released the new, more expensive iPhone X form factor alongside the more incremental and moderately priced iPhone 8 to reach different price points? What do I win?
    cornchip
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  • Reply 40 of 56
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member

    davgreg said:
    Maybe it has to do with the fact that Tim Cook wants to make TV shows and rent magazines and music instead of making objects to be purchased.
    And why would that affect the design team at all?
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