jbdragon said: Really though, why are they trying to single themselves out? It's the gay spectacle out there. I don't want that crap thrown in my face. If LGBT is just fine and dandy, then everything else should be also. How about a Polyamorous Pride Month and Parade for example. Why not? Just open the flood gates to everything. Why not a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man, or Woman for that matter wanting to get married. What's wrong with that then?
Need for approval. (Note: I'm not just saying this as a dig, but from a position of understanding human nature fairly well.) Those other things will be coming soon. (Note: just heading off the response... not slippery slope logical fallacy, but valid slippery slope based on what I'm seeing in culture, and the logic used to get from point A to B.)
jbdragon said: Really though, why are they trying to single themselves out? It's the gay spectacle out there. I don't want that crap thrown in my face. If LGBT is just fine and dandy, then everything else should be also. How about a Polyamorous Pride Month and Parade for example. Why not? Just open the flood gates to everything. Why not a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man, or Woman for that matter wanting to get married. What's wrong with that then?
Need for approval. (Note: I'm not just saying this as a dig, but from a position of understanding human nature fairly well.) Those other things will be coming soon. (Note: just heading off the response... not slippery slope logical fallacy, but valid slippery slope based on what I'm seeing in culture, and the logic used to get from point A to B.)
There is no correlation between sexual orientation and pedophilia. You’re wrong.
fastasleep said: There is no correlation between sexual orientation and pedophilia. You’re wrong.
Did I say there was?
jbdragon said there was and you backed up his "a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man […] wanting to get married" statement by claiming that "[it] will be coming soon."
Soli said: jbdragon said there was and you backed up his "a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man […] wanting to get married" statement by claiming that "[it] will be coming soon."
Yep, I figured as much... a common misunderstanding of my point. The slippery slope isn't a connection between the behaviors, but a commonality in the logical steps involved to force either on society.
Soli said: jbdragon said there was and you backed up his "a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man […] wanting to get married" statement by claiming that "[it] will be coming soon."
Yep, I figured as much... a common misunderstanding of my point. The slippery slope isn't a connection between the behaviors, but a commonality in the logical steps involved to force either on society.
Soli said: jbdragon said there was and you backed up his "a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man […] wanting to get married" statement by claiming that "[it] will be coming soon."
Yep, I figured as much... a common misunderstanding of my point. The slippery slope isn't a connection between the behaviors, but a commonality in the logical steps involved to force either on society.
So the same “logic” behind accepting that there are gay people in the world is also the same logic that would lead to rejection of age of consent laws and pedophilia? What exactly are you saying?
Soli said: jbdragon said there was and you backed up his "a 12 year old Girl and a 30 year old Man […] wanting to get married" statement by claiming that "[it] will be coming soon."
Yep, I figured as much... a common misunderstanding of my point. The slippery slope isn't a connection between the behaviors, but a commonality in the logical steps involved to force either on society.
So the same “logic” behind accepting that there are gay people in the world is also the same logic that would lead to rejection of age of consent laws and pedophilia? What exactly are you saying?
I think he's pointing out that bigots that want to believe that homosexually correlates with pedophilia or beastiality are going to believe that regardless of any rational argument you present. IOW, he's just pointing out the stark reality that immoral, hypocritical assholes exist.
fastasleep said: So the same “logic” behind accepting that there are gay people in the world is also the same logic that would lead to rejection of age of consent laws and pedophilia? What exactly are you saying?
No, it is... a. the difference between something being recognized (and then institutionalized), and something being created based on people's wishes (and then enforced by law). b. if marriage is based on 'who you love' (instead of the recognized bedrock of society as old as time, cf. point a), you're going to be unlawfully discriminating against some group if you exclude them from fulfilling their 'who I love' definition.
Or, to put it more forthright (in case connecting the dots above isn't clear enough), the forcing of same-sex marriage into society and laws was based on an argument and criteria that can easily be used by all sorts of other various pairings (or more), demanding to be similarly recognized and enforced by the State. (BTW, law either prohibits, permits, or promotes.... and even before 'same-sex marriage' it was already permitted, just not promoted. Promotion is a further step endorsing something.)
And, movements are already underway, and legal discussions are being had (including age consent law). I think you're going to be shocked at how quickly the pedophilia stigma gets overturned, just as the same-sex stigma has been. After all, the arbitrary age of 18 or 16 or whatever it is in most places now, is pretty old, historically. It's also a much less clear line than heterosexual/same-sex.
So, I'm not claiming the two have anything to do with one another, at least not to my point. (Though note, there does seem to be a high correlation (cf. Roman Catholic Church scandals, for example) in some cases than would seem typical for the amounts we see in general society... though it might just be that (correlation) as we probably don't know how rampant it is in general society. Further study on that is probably needed.)
Soli said: I think he's pointing out that bigots that want to believe that homosexually correlates with pedophilia or beastiality are going to believe that regardless of any rational argument you present. IOW, he's just pointing out the stark reality that immoral, hypocritical assholes exist.
No, not what I meant. But, in general, I suppose that is true as well. I've certainly run across that (slippery slope fallacy) as well. The problem is that most people assume that is the point I'm making, when it is not.
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Those other things will be coming soon. (Note: just heading off the response... not slippery slope logical fallacy, but valid slippery slope based on what I'm seeing in culture, and the logic used to get from point A to B.)
a. the difference between something being recognized (and then institutionalized), and something being created based on people's wishes (and then enforced by law).
b. if marriage is based on 'who you love' (instead of the recognized bedrock of society as old as time, cf. point a), you're going to be unlawfully discriminating against some group if you exclude them from fulfilling their 'who I love' definition.
Or, to put it more forthright (in case connecting the dots above isn't clear enough), the forcing of same-sex marriage into society and laws was based on an argument and criteria that can easily be used by all sorts of other various pairings (or more), demanding to be similarly recognized and enforced by the State. (BTW, law either prohibits, permits, or promotes.... and even before 'same-sex marriage' it was already permitted, just not promoted. Promotion is a further step endorsing something.)
And, movements are already underway, and legal discussions are being had (including age consent law). I think you're going to be shocked at how quickly the pedophilia stigma gets overturned, just as the same-sex stigma has been. After all, the arbitrary age of 18 or 16 or whatever it is in most places now, is pretty old, historically. It's also a much less clear line than heterosexual/same-sex.
So, I'm not claiming the two have anything to do with one another, at least not to my point.
(Though note, there does seem to be a high correlation (cf. Roman Catholic Church scandals, for example) in some cases than would seem typical for the amounts we see in general society... though it might just be that (correlation) as we probably don't know how rampant it is in general society. Further study on that is probably needed.)
No, not what I meant. But, in general, I suppose that is true as well. I've certainly run across that (slippery slope fallacy) as well. The problem is that most people assume that is the point I'm making, when it is not.