"The Chinese Commercial Timesclaims TSMC will move to a 7-nanometer extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) process that has the potential for more accurate chip production and more intricate designs, named "N7+." HiSilicon's Kirin 985 chips will be the first to use N7+ in its production, but the Apple-designed "A13" will be the next to go into manufacturing at the firm.
For the A-series chip, TSMC will be bringing out an alternate form of its N7+ process which it calls "N7 Pro." It is unclear exactly what the difference is between N7 Pro and N7+, but it will reportedly be ready for volume production late in the second quarter, in time for A-series production for the fall iPhone refresh. "
Would you have posted that link if it wasn't for the Kirin 985 being the first production at N7+ ?
I doubt it.
Should you care that the A13 will be produced at the slightly different N7 Pro after the Kirin 985 is produced?
Probably not, but it does appear to back up Mel's statement that Apple has its own process technology at TMSC.
Foundries often offer multiple process versions at a given node. TSMC often starts with low power versions. Then there is the refinement of existing processes on a given node. What N7 Pro is Verdi’s unknown, it could be lots of things even optimization for stacked chips.
We cant assume that it is an Apple only process but on the other hand it could very well be. We need to remember that Apple acquired a number of companies specializing in low power electronics. We can speculate but frankly I kind doubt it, the thing here is that development of a process for a node is not a trivial thing at all. Apple would need to have more resources than we know about.
"The Chinese Commercial Timesclaims TSMC will move to a 7-nanometer extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) process that has the potential for more accurate chip production and more intricate designs, named "N7+." HiSilicon's Kirin 985 chips will be the first to use N7+ in its production, but the Apple-designed "A13" will be the next to go into manufacturing at the firm.
For the A-series chip, TSMC will be bringing out an alternate form of its N7+ process which it calls "N7 Pro." It is unclear exactly what the difference is between N7 Pro and N7+, but it will reportedly be ready for volume production late in the second quarter, in time for A-series production for the fall iPhone refresh. "
Would you have posted that link if it wasn't for the Kirin 985 being the first production at N7+ ?
I doubt it.
Should you care that the A13 will be produced at the slightly different N7 Pro after the Kirin 985 is produced?
Probably not, but it does appear to back up Mel's statement that Apple has its own process technology at TMSC.
Foundries often offer multiple process versions at a given node. TSMC often starts with low power versions. Then there is the refinement of existing processes on a given node. What N7 Pro is Verdi’s unknown, it could be lots of things even optimization for stacked chips.
We cant assume that it is an Apple only process but on the other hand it could very well be. We need to remember that Apple acquired a number of companies specializing in low power electronics. We can speculate but frankly I kind doubt it, the thing here is that development of a process for a node is not a trivial thing at all. Apple would need to have more resources than we know about.
Dialog was licensed, and they have a number of their team working directly at Apple.
The point is why would there be two different processes going into production at almost the same time. It could be risk mitigation, or it could be a "large customer", aka Apple, driving the latest node for reasons unknown. My speculation was customer furnished equipment for the 7N Pro line, likely exclusive to Apple for the near term.
"The Chinese Commercial Timesclaims TSMC will move to a 7-nanometer extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) process that has the potential for more accurate chip production and more intricate designs, named "N7+." HiSilicon's Kirin 985 chips will be the first to use N7+ in its production, but the Apple-designed "A13" will be the next to go into manufacturing at the firm.
For the A-series chip, TSMC will be bringing out an alternate form of its N7+ process which it calls "N7 Pro." It is unclear exactly what the difference is between N7 Pro and N7+, but it will reportedly be ready for volume production late in the second quarter, in time for A-series production for the fall iPhone refresh. "
Would you have posted that link if it wasn't for the Kirin 985 being the first production at N7+ ?
I doubt it.
Should you care that the A13 will be produced at the slightly different N7 Pro after the Kirin 985 is produced?
Probably not, but it does appear to back up Mel's statement that Apple has its own process technology at TMSC.
Foundries often offer multiple process versions at a given node. TSMC often starts with low power versions. Then there is the refinement of existing processes on a given node. What N7 Pro is Verdi’s unknown, it could be lots of things even optimization for stacked chips.
We cant assume that it is an Apple only process but on the other hand it could very well be. We need to remember that Apple acquired a number of companies specializing in low power electronics. We can speculate but frankly I kind doubt it, the thing here is that development of a process for a node is not a trivial thing at all. Apple would need to have more resources than we know about.
Dialog was licensed, and they have a number of their team working directly at Apple.
The point is why would there be two different processes going into production at almost the same time. It could be risk mitigation, or it could be a "large customer", aka Apple, driving the latest node for reasons unknown. My speculation was customer furnished equipment for the 7N Pro line, likely exclusive to Apple for the near term.
I have seen nothing to support the claim that Apple is in someway providing process technology to TSMC.
That doesn't mean they don't. I simply doubt the claim that it 'provides process IP' (spoken as if it were a habitual thing) and the statement: "Apple almost certainly has provided TMSC with some process equipment that will be exclusive to the 7N Pro line."
At this point in time, all I see is speculation and presenting speculation as certainty or near certainty is stretching things a tad.
Comparing Dialog with this speculation is also off base.
For likely scenarios (still speculation) it would be more appropriate to simply imagine that the IP was from TSMC itself and was offered to clients.
TSMC has a huge amount of practical knowhow in the field. There is nothing to suggest Apple has the same level of knowhow.
There were rumours last year that Apple invested in TSMC. That wasn't true and TSMC management had to issue a statement claiming that there was no Apple investment in TSMC. Apple simply provided a sum of money for TSMC to be able to comply with future orders. Those orders could theoretically include the Pro process but even then there is still nothing that I have seen to say the IP itself is Apple's.
"The Chinese Commercial Timesclaims TSMC will move to a 7-nanometer extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUV) process that has the potential for more accurate chip production and more intricate designs, named "N7+." HiSilicon's Kirin 985 chips will be the first to use N7+ in its production, but the Apple-designed "A13" will be the next to go into manufacturing at the firm.
For the A-series chip, TSMC will be bringing out an alternate form of its N7+ process which it calls "N7 Pro." It is unclear exactly what the difference is between N7 Pro and N7+, but it will reportedly be ready for volume production late in the second quarter, in time for A-series production for the fall iPhone refresh. "
Would you have posted that link if it wasn't for the Kirin 985 being the first production at N7+ ?
I doubt it.
Should you care that the A13 will be produced at the slightly different N7 Pro after the Kirin 985 is produced?
Probably not, but it does appear to back up Mel's statement that Apple has its own process technology at TMSC.
Foundries often offer multiple process versions at a given node. TSMC often starts with low power versions. Then there is the refinement of existing processes on a given node. What N7 Pro is Verdi’s unknown, it could be lots of things even optimization for stacked chips.
We cant assume that it is an Apple only process but on the other hand it could very well be. We need to remember that Apple acquired a number of companies specializing in low power electronics. We can speculate but frankly I kind doubt it, the thing here is that development of a process for a node is not a trivial thing at all. Apple would need to have more resources than we know about.
Dialog was licensed, and they have a number of their team working directly at Apple.
The point is why would there be two different processes going into production at almost the same time. It could be risk mitigation, or it could be a "large customer", aka Apple, driving the latest node for reasons unknown. My speculation was customer furnished equipment for the 7N Pro line, likely exclusive to Apple for the near term.
I have seen nothing to support the claim that Apple is in someway providing process technology to TSMC.
That doesn't mean they don't. I simply doubt the claim that it 'provides process IP' (spoken as if it were a habitual thing) and the statement: "Apple almost certainly has provided TMSC with some process equipment that will be exclusive to the 7N Pro line."
At this point in time, all I see is speculation and presenting speculation as certainty or near certainty is stretching things a tad.
Comparing Dialog with this speculation is also off base.
For likely scenarios (still speculation) it would be more appropriate to simply imagine that the IP was from TSMC itself and was offered to clients.
TSMC has a huge amount of practical knowhow in the field. There is nothing to suggest Apple has the same level of knowhow.
There were rumours last year that Apple invested in TSMC. That wasn't true and TSMC management had to issue a statement claiming that there was no Apple investment in TSMC. Apple simply provided a sum of money for TSMC to be able to comply with future orders. Those orders could theoretically include the Pro process but even then there is still nothing that I have seen to say the IP itself is Apple's.
As i stated, it could be process equipment that Apple supplied TMSC for an exclusive line. The IP would have been either / both Apple and the equipment vendor. I would note that Apple has done something similar to this since the Mac Book Pro was being machined from solid.
Comments
We cant assume that it is an Apple only process but on the other hand it could very well be. We need to remember that Apple acquired a number of companies specializing in low power electronics. We can speculate but frankly I kind doubt it, the thing here is that development of a process for a node is not a trivial thing at all. Apple would need to have more resources than we know about.
The point is why would there be two different processes going into production at almost the same time. It could be risk mitigation, or it could be a "large customer", aka Apple, driving the latest node for reasons unknown. My speculation was customer furnished equipment for the 7N Pro line, likely exclusive to Apple for the near term.
That doesn't mean they don't. I simply doubt the claim that it 'provides process IP' (spoken as if it were a habitual thing) and the statement: "Apple almost certainly has provided TMSC with some process equipment that will be exclusive to the 7N Pro line."
At this point in time, all I see is speculation and presenting speculation as certainty or near certainty is stretching things a tad.
Comparing Dialog with this speculation is also off base.
For likely scenarios (still speculation) it would be more appropriate to simply imagine that the IP was from TSMC itself and was offered to clients.
TSMC has a huge amount of practical knowhow in the field. There is nothing to suggest Apple has the same level of knowhow.
There were rumours last year that Apple invested in TSMC. That wasn't true and TSMC management had to issue a statement claiming that there was no Apple investment in TSMC. Apple simply provided a sum of money for TSMC to be able to comply with future orders. Those orders could theoretically include the Pro process but even then there is still nothing that I have seen to say the IP itself is Apple's.