2. There is zero evidence of Apple building — or even getting permits for — facilities that could manufacture a car. If a factory permit application turned up tomorrow, it would be a minimum of 10 years before it was producing cars.
Why "a minimum of a 10 years" when it took a startup venturing into stylish EVs and without Apple's incredibly deep pockets to from being founded to creating and demoing a prototype in 3 years and then only 1.5 years after that to start delivering the first Roadster to customers?
I think Apple skip car and go directly to flying saucer or iUFO :-)
There’s something to that. A lot of companies are now trying to crack the self-piloting “flying taxi” and not just a bunch of niche players, Uber for one.
While that sounds cool, think how much energy would be wasted transitioning 2-D travel (cars) to 3-D (flying cars). Seems like a great way to increase CO2 emissions.
I think Apple skip car and go directly to flying saucer or iUFO :-)
There’s something to that. A lot of companies are now trying to crack the self-piloting “flying taxi” and not just a bunch of niche players, Uber for one.
While that sounds cool, think how much energy would be wasted transitioning 2-D travel (cars) to 3-D (flying cars). Seems like a great way to increase CO2 emissions.
Not with the new very high powered electric motors that are starting to appear. Look up the videos on the Black Fly flying vehicle.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
You must work for Apple to have such amazing insight.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Oh, give us a frick’in break will you. R&D spending is through the roof on Project Titan? Where did you get that juicy little tidbit? To my knowledge Apple doesn’t break down its R&D spending in quarterly reports. Making something up doesn’t turn it into fact.
They don't
My point is that R&D spending has gone stratospheric ($16B/yr) and there is little to shown for it. I do not have a breakout for Titan but I believe it is a material component. The cost structure of the company has gone sideways (gross margins, operating margins, SGA $, R&D $)
Bottom line - either you have faith or you don't in Apple's ability to enter and dominant new markets. I'm increasingly concerned Apple is slowing down. It has been 9+ years since the iPad
So the Watch doesn’t count, huh? It doesn’t dominate its market, huh? You’re allowed your opinion but remember that Steve Jobs died 8 years ago and he’s not coming back. If all you care about are Macs and iPads then that's your problem, not Apple’s.
Of course it counts. I own the Series 0 (bought @ launch) and Series 4. I use it every day
I just don’t see anything from Apple (yet) on how it is going to attack (and win) very large addressable markets: education, health, transportation, India
Tim has talked about India for four years and Apple is still in the same exact place - last
I think Apple skip car and go directly to flying saucer or iUFO :-)
There’s something to that. A lot of companies are now trying to crack the self-piloting “flying taxi” and not just a bunch of niche players, Uber for one.
While that sounds cool, think how much energy would be wasted transitioning 2-D travel (cars) to 3-D (flying cars). Seems like a great way to increase CO2 emissions.
Assuming CO2 emissions are something to care about, you could argue that a direct line of flight is significantly more efficient than driving on a grid or curvy roads with stoplights.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Oh, give us a frick’in break will you. R&D spending is through the roof on Project Titan? Where did you get that juicy little tidbit? To my knowledge Apple doesn’t break down its R&D spending in quarterly reports. Making something up doesn’t turn it into fact.
They don't
My point is that R&D spending has gone stratospheric ($16B/yr) and there is little to shown for it. I do not have a breakout for Titan but I believe it is a material component. The cost structure of the company has gone sideways (gross margins, operating margins, SGA $, R&D $)
Bottom line - either you have faith or you don't in Apple's ability to enter and dominant new markets. I'm increasingly concerned Apple is slowing down. It has been 9+ years since the iPad
So the Watch doesn’t count, huh? It doesn’t dominate its market, huh? You’re allowed your opinion but remember that Steve Jobs died 8 years ago and he’s not coming back. If all you care about are Macs and iPads then that's your problem, not Apple’s.
Of course it counts. I own the Series 0 (bought @ launch) and Series 4. I use it every day
I just don’t see anything from Apple (yet) on how it is going to attack (and win) very large addressable markets: education, health, transportation, India
Tim has talked about India for four years and Apple is still in the same exact place - last
Not sure why you would mention India. Anyone who has been paying attention knows that India is an economic basket case run by grossly corrupt and economically incompetent politicians. Apple has no chance there in the medium term. Unless, of course, they’re willing to bribe government officials. But that’s not something Apple will ever do. Ain’t in their DNA.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Oh, give us a frick’in break will you. R&D spending is through the roof on Project Titan? Where did you get that juicy little tidbit? To my knowledge Apple doesn’t break down its R&D spending in quarterly reports. Making something up doesn’t turn it into fact.
They don't
My point is that R&D spending has gone stratospheric ($16B/yr) and there is little to shown for it. I do not have a breakout for Titan but I believe it is a material component. The cost structure of the company has gone sideways (gross margins, operating margins, SGA $, R&D $)
Bottom line - either you have faith or you don't in Apple's ability to enter and dominant new markets. I'm increasingly concerned Apple is slowing down. It has been 9+ years since the iPad
So the Watch doesn’t count, huh? It doesn’t dominate its market, huh? You’re allowed your opinion but remember that Steve Jobs died 8 years ago and he’s not coming back. If all you care about are Macs and iPads then that's your problem, not Apple’s.
Of course it counts. I own the Series 0 (bought @ launch) and Series 4. I use it every day
I just don’t see anything from Apple (yet) on how it is going to attack (and win) very large addressable markets: education, health, transportation, India
Tim has talked about India for four years and Apple is still in the same exact place - last
If you are indeed a long term investor in Apple and you have this concern/attitude then you really should be thinking about selling your shares.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Oh, give us a frick’in break will you. R&D spending is through the roof on Project Titan? Where did you get that juicy little tidbit? To my knowledge Apple doesn’t break down its R&D spending in quarterly reports. Making something up doesn’t turn it into fact.
They don't
My point is that R&D spending has gone stratospheric ($16B/yr) and there is little to shown for it. I do not have a breakout for Titan but I believe it is a material component. The cost structure of the company has gone sideways (gross margins, operating margins, SGA $, R&D $)
Bottom line - either you have faith or you don't in Apple's ability to enter and dominant new markets. I'm increasingly concerned Apple is slowing down. It has been 9+ years since the iPad
So the Watch doesn’t count, huh? It doesn’t dominate its market, huh? You’re allowed your opinion but remember that Steve Jobs died 8 years ago and he’s not coming back. If all you care about are Macs and iPads then that's your problem, not Apple’s.
Of course it counts. I own the Series 0 (bought @ launch) and Series 4. I use it every day
I just don’t see anything from Apple (yet) on how it is going to attack (and win) very large addressable markets: education, health, transportation, India
Tim has talked about India for four years and Apple is still in the same exact place - last
If you are indeed a long term investor in Apple and you have this concern/attitude then you really should be thinking about selling your shares.
1. There is no confirmation, anywhere, that Apple is building its own car.
2. There is zero evidence of Apple building — or even getting permits for — facilities that could manufacture a car. If a factory permit application turned up tomorrow, it would be a minimum of 10 years before it was producing cars.
3. There is, however, lots of evidence that Apple is building and researching car systems. Perhaps that will be used to augment a forthcoming car from an existing manufacturer, or the tech will be offered to the industry as a whole a la CarPlay, or Apple could partner with a manufacturer to produce a car in a partnership.
To me, the last option seems — by far — the most likely set of scenarios. So far, a majority of the little we actually know about “Project Titan” is that Apple has been focused on mapping/navigation, and safety regarding vehicles with at least some level of self-driving capability. Despite the lead of the story making reference to an “Apple Car,” further down the article makes clear that the program — if it was ever trying to build its own car for anything other than prototyping purposes — pivoted to other aims quite some time back.
To put this another way: if Apple was building a car to debut next year or the year after — there’d be no way a prototype would not have been spotted being road tested by now. The amount of licensing and permitting to do something like that takes ages — the fact that one hasn’t been seen suggests no possibility of it happening within the next two years at a minimum.
Yes, I quite agree.
Plus, Apple has not been in the industrial manufacturing business since the early days of the Macintosh. And contracting out the manufacture of an automobile would be far more complex than any iPhone or Mac.
If they want to produce an entire car they are far more likely to either buy an auto company (There are and will be plenty that are struggling) or partner with one. But, I don't think either is likely.
More likely will be, as you say: "Apple is building and researching car systems... a la CarPlay".
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Yeah Cook needs armchair executive advice on how to manage the most successful public company in history (that has exploded in profits under him) from "Red Oak". LOL, I don't think some of you actually think about this stuff before typing...
Tim has talked about India for four years and Apple is still in the same exact place - last
You can remember Apple building iPhones in India 4 years ago? I can't. Not being aware of what Apple is doing in another country ≠ Apple not doing something in another country.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Like the others here, I think you’ve got your own reality distortion field going strong.
Aside from Project Titan, Apple Watch, EarPods, and other things that have already been mentioned, Apple has hired a boatload of scientists and medical doctors to study and hopefully develop breakthrough devices that can fundamentally change personal healthcare. Those people are expensive as are their science projects. No one can be sure what will emerge over the next few years. But what is embedded in Apple’s DNA makes me believe they may solve a few problems that the medical industry has not fully put its time, money and will into solving.
$16B/year in R&D is the equivalent of 40,000 employees at fully weighted cost of $400K each. Apple's new HQ building holds 12.5K employees
The first iPhone was birthed by a small, very tight group of highly capable people who collaborated like crazy. I don't equate spending large amounts of money like a drunk sailor with being innovative. Large teams have never historically been in Apple's DNA
How is it even possible to spend $4B/quarter in R&D? At this point, grab some popcorn and see how it all plays out
If you don't believe wearables like the Apple Watch (and all that medical tech infers), or the AirPods, or FaceID, etc, are innovative, then you're just living in fantasy land waiting for holographic chat apps.
Apple either needs to find product market fit in transportation or move on. The R&D spend level is through the roof and nothing is coming out of the other end. In the last ten years, Apple has launched Apple Watch, Airpods and bunch of services. There does not seem to be any sense of urgency in Tim Cook's world
Project Titan has become an immense jungle of technologies, software, patents, appliances without the faintest clue how to combine it into a marketable product or service. Lots of blatter about “partnering” while no single car manufacturer wants to partner with Apple. And every other week another article about some exotic appliance that never will see light. Only way out of this is to buy a carmaker to enter that industry or preferably, completely get rid of everything, to focus on core competencies (to regain those...)
O rly? Care to share the source of your inside knowledge of whether or not Apple has a clue on what it is that they're working on, which we don't even know?
1. There is no confirmation, anywhere, that Apple is building its own car.
2. There is zero evidence of Apple building — or even getting permits for — facilities that could manufacture a car. If a factory permit application turned up tomorrow, it would be a minimum of 10 years before it was producing cars.
3. There is, however, lots of evidence that Apple is building and researching car systems. Perhaps that will be used to augment a forthcoming car from an existing manufacturer, or the tech will be offered to the industry as a whole a la CarPlay, or Apple could partner with a manufacturer to produce a car in a partnership.
To me, the last option seems — by far — the most likely set of scenarios. So far, a majority of the little we actually know about “Project Titan” is that Apple has been focused on mapping/navigation, and safety regarding vehicles with at least some level of self-driving capability. Despite the lead of the story making reference to an “Apple Car,” further down the article makes clear that the program — if it was ever trying to build its own car for anything other than prototyping purposes — pivoted to other aims quite some time back.
To put this another way: if Apple was building a car to debut next year or the year after — there’d be no way a prototype would not have been spotted being road tested by now. The amount of licensing and permitting to do something like that takes ages — the fact that one hasn’t been seen suggests no possibility of it happening within the next two years at a minimum.
I’ll concur with you that Apple has made no visible attempts to put plant and equipment in place for production. But my concurrence stops there. Because it appears that Apple is doing a hell of a lot more than exploring mapping and navigation.
If you’re sure Apple isn’t developing a full blown car, then what is their endgame? Apple’s exploration of automotive subsystems is unlikely to make inroads with the current set of auto manufacturers. They will have zero incentive to subcontract with Apple. If I was them I would be quite fearful of what Apple could do down the road as Apple took over more and more subsystems.
No, Apple wants to build their own car. They recognize the difficulty of the venture so they will not attempt to do everything at once. Their strategy will be to put key pieces of technology, infrastructure, knowhow, and alliances in place, so that when they’re ready they can introduce a product that can utilize all these pieces in a way that no other auto manufacturer can. Apple must catch everyone off guard lest the opportunity vanish before it is realized.
Comments
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhKTCbbqbaE&t=1s
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/273502-the-blackfly-is-a-flying-car-that-doesnt-require-a-pilots-license
Of course it counts. I own the Series 0 (bought @ launch) and Series 4. I use it every day
I just don’t see anything from Apple (yet) on how it is going to attack (and win) very large addressable markets: education, health, transportation, India
Tim has talked about India for four years and Apple is still in the same exact place - last
Assuming CO2 emissions are something to care about, you could argue that a direct line of flight is significantly more efficient than driving on a grid or curvy roads with stoplights.
https://www.automobilemag.com/news/vw-america-ceo-interview-evs-sedans-next-gti/
If they want to produce an entire car they are far more likely to either buy an auto company (There are and will be plenty that are struggling) or partner with one. But, I don't think either is likely.
More likely will be, as you say: "Apple is building and researching car systems... a la CarPlay".
Again, the cluelessness on display is perplexing.
I’ll concur with you that Apple has made no visible attempts to put plant and equipment in place for production. But my concurrence stops there. Because it appears that Apple is doing a hell of a lot more than exploring mapping and navigation.
If you’re sure Apple isn’t developing a full blown car, then what is their endgame? Apple’s exploration of automotive subsystems is unlikely to make inroads with the current set of auto manufacturers. They will have zero incentive to subcontract with Apple. If I was them I would be quite fearful of what Apple could do down the road as Apple took over more and more subsystems.
No, Apple wants to build their own car. They recognize the difficulty of the venture so they will not attempt to do everything at once. Their strategy will be to put key pieces of technology, infrastructure, knowhow, and alliances in place, so that when they’re ready they can introduce a product that can utilize all these pieces in a way that no other auto manufacturer can. Apple must catch everyone off guard lest the opportunity vanish before it is realized.