Google suspends Huawei's Android license, forces switch to open-source version

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    edited May 2019 mwhiteStrangeDaysredhotfuzz1stwatto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    Science and education is definitely not IP theft. Chinese students are welcome for example at Wageningen University in the Netherlands to study agriculture and do their research there. Then, they are free to apply all this knowledge in China or wherever they want.
    So many are allowing themselves to be manipulated by hate mongering, and forget to think, use the mental faculties they were given, for the good of humanity.
    Uhm, it depends on who owns the IP that is created.

    http://en.people.cn/n3/2019/0519/c90000-9579483.html

    "Cases of European firms forced to transfer technology in China are increasing despite Beijing saying the problem does not exist, a European business lobby said, adding that its outlook on the country’s regulatory environment is “bleak”.

    Seriously, how naive do you have to be to provide unequivocal support of China in this?
    redhotfuzzanantksundaram
  • Reply 63 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member

    There doesn't seem to be any proof of misconduct by Huawei.
    You sit in on Western countries' intelligence briefings, do you?

    Also, only a complete ignoramus would deny China's open and rampant practice of IP theft.
    This is sloppy thinking. Proof should be open to questioning, and nothing has been brought forward, not even an accusation. Likewise, accusations of IP theft should be substantiated in court.  And Huawei is not China and China is not Huawei. China does have lots of policies that disadvantage foreign companies, even apart from the problem of being a one-party state, and these things have to be worked out preferably working together with allies. But Trump is open about what this whole trade war really is about: "‘Not on my watch’: China won’t be number one in the world, says Donald Trump" (see link in 'Reply 35'). This is standard would-be dictator strategy, inventing enemies.
    You do know that Western legal structures are not equivalent to Chinese legal structures, so depending on the venue, in this case China, Western companies are almost certainly at a disadvantage. 

    Here's a story on that;


    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/world/asia/trade-xi-jinping-trump-china-united-states.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

    "China’s leader, Xi Jinping, seemed confident three weeks ago that a yearlong trade war with the United States could soon subside, handing him a potent political victory.

    He even made a speech saying China would protect intellectual property, encourage foreign investment, and buy more goods and services from abroad — all changes the United States had been demanding as the countries tried to negotiate a deal.

    But just a week after that speech, Chinese negotiators sent the Americans a substantially rewritten draft agreement, prompting President Trump to accuse Beijing of reneging on terms that had been settled.

    That has left hopes for a historic breakthrough in tatters."

    Maybe the Chinese aren't actually negotiating in good faith?

    https://technode.com/2019/05/20/briefing-european-firms-say-forced-tech-transfers-rising-in-china/

    edited May 2019 watto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 81
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 65 of 81
    rotateleftbyterotateleftbyte Posts: 1,630member
    sirozha said:
    China will now start developing their own mobile and desktop OSes. Probably based on Linux. They understand that relying on proprietary western technologies is dangerous from their national security perspective. 
    There is in a perverse sort of way, an attraction to a Google Free Android device. No Google spyware is actually a plus in my mind.

    The head of Huawei UK has admitted on BBC Radio '5' that there is an alternative to Android in the works.
  • Reply 66 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    redhotfuzz1stwatto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member

    sirozha said:
    China will now start developing their own mobile and desktop OSes. Probably based on Linux. They understand that relying on proprietary western technologies is dangerous from their national security perspective. 
    There is in a perverse sort of way, an attraction to a Google Free Android device. No Google spyware is actually a plus in my mind.

    The head of Huawei UK has admitted on BBC Radio '5' that there is an alternative to Android in the works.
    An alternative that isn't ready today.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 81
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    I have no knowledge of who owned Huawei except what you said is a worker union. What about Epochtimes? 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 69 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    I have no knowledge of who owned Huawei except what you said is a worker union. What about Epochtimes? 
    Your argument about semantics is not relevant to this conversation.

    "The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper headquartered in New York City. The company was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement. The newspaper covers general interest topics with a focus on news about China and human rights issues there."

    Not owned by the U.S. Government, unless you have supporting data and analysis otherwise, which you don't.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/about-us

    They are decidedly biased against the CCP, but that has nothing to do with the U.S. Government.

    Are you attempting to steer this to a human rights issue?
    edited May 2019 StrangeDaysredhotfuzz1stwatto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 81
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    I have no knowledge of who owned Huawei except what you said is a worker union. What about Epochtimes? 
    Your argument about semantics is not relevant to this conversation.

    "The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper headquartered in New York City. The company was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement. The newspaper covers general interest topics with a focus on news about China and human rights issues there."

    Not owned by the U.S. Government, unless you have supporting data and analysis otherwise, which you don't.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/about-us

    They are decidedly biased agains the CCP, but that has nothing to do with the U.S. Government.

    Are you attempting to steer this to a human rights issue?
    Do you read Epochtimes? It draws from a network of sources inside China, as well as Chinese expatriates living in the West. It has a spy network in China. So if Huawei is 99% owned by Chinese government, it should already has the evidence. 
    I don't know history of Huawei. My guess is Rea funded it many years ago. It got a lot of business from Chinese government. So it grows and grows. This is completely feasible. Trying to tie it to Chinese government is purely politically motivated. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 71 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    I have no knowledge of who owned Huawei except what you said is a worker union. What about Epochtimes? 
    Your argument about semantics is not relevant to this conversation.

    "The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper headquartered in New York City. The company was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement. The newspaper covers general interest topics with a focus on news about China and human rights issues there."

    Not owned by the U.S. Government, unless you have supporting data and analysis otherwise, which you don't.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/about-us

    They are decidedly biased agains the CCP, but that has nothing to do with the U.S. Government.

    Are you attempting to steer this to a human rights issue?
    Do you read Epochtimes? It draws from a network of sources inside China, as well as Chinese expatriates living in the West. It has a spy network in China. So if Huawei is 99% owned by Chinese government, it should already has the evidence. 
    I don't know history of Huawei. My guess is Rea funded it many years ago. It got a lot of business from Chinese government. So it grows and grows. This is completely feasible. Trying to tie it to Chinese government is purely politically motivated. 
    I posted links to the ownership analysis, which you have ignored. 


    No, I don't read Epochtimes, and even if I did, it isn't relevant to the conversation. I do know a lot about United Front, which is the CCP's and PLA's Chinese diaspora based worldwide influencing campaign, specifically to reunite Taiwan with Mainland China, but also attempting to buy politicians and influence political and economics in Western Countries, especially Canada, New Zealand, Britain and Australia, part of the Five Eyes.

    As far as I can tell, you are part of that, fairly or unfairly.

    Our conversation is over.
    edited May 2019 StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 81
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    I have no knowledge of who owned Huawei except what you said is a worker union. What about Epochtimes? 
    Your argument about semantics is not relevant to this conversation.

    "The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper headquartered in New York City. The company was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement. The newspaper covers general interest topics with a focus on news about China and human rights issues there."

    Not owned by the U.S. Government, unless you have supporting data and analysis otherwise, which you don't.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/about-us

    They are decidedly biased agains the CCP, but that has nothing to do with the U.S. Government.

    Are you attempting to steer this to a human rights issue?
    Do you read Epochtimes? It draws from a network of sources inside China, as well as Chinese expatriates living in the West. It has a spy network in China. So if Huawei is 99% owned by Chinese government, it should already has the evidence. 
    I don't know history of Huawei. My guess is Rea funded it many years ago. It got a lot of business from Chinese government. So it grows and grows. This is completely feasible. Trying to tie it to Chinese government is purely politically motivated. 
    I posted links to the ownership analysis, which you have ignored. 


    No, I don't read Epochtimes, and even if I did, it isn't relevant to the conversation. I do know a lot about United Front, which is the CCP's and PLA's Chinese diaspora based worldwide influencing campaign, specifically to reunite Taiwan with Mainland China, but also attempting to buy politicians and influence political and economics in Western Countries, especially Canada, New Zealand, Britain and Australia, part of the Five Eyes.

    As far as I can tell, you are part of that, fairly or unfairly.

    Our conversation is over.
    I am not associated with any organization. I am just an avid news reader. It looks like you are associated with FAPA. Am I right? 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 73 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tzeshan said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Faulty logic. According to this logic, epoch times is funded by US. So Epochtimes is US and US is Epochtimes. 
    So, you would disagree that Huawei is 99% owned by the Chinese Government, then please show your data and analysis to prove otherwise.
    I have no knowledge of who owned Huawei except what you said is a worker union. What about Epochtimes? 
    Your argument about semantics is not relevant to this conversation.

    "The Epoch Times is a multi-language newspaper headquartered in New York City. The company was founded in 2000 by John Tang and a group of Chinese Americans associated with the Falun Gong spiritual movement. The newspaper covers general interest topics with a focus on news about China and human rights issues there."

    Not owned by the U.S. Government, unless you have supporting data and analysis otherwise, which you don't.

    https://www.theepochtimes.com/about-us

    They are decidedly biased agains the CCP, but that has nothing to do with the U.S. Government.

    Are you attempting to steer this to a human rights issue?
    Do you read Epochtimes? It draws from a network of sources inside China, as well as Chinese expatriates living in the West. It has a spy network in China. So if Huawei is 99% owned by Chinese government, it should already has the evidence. 
    I don't know history of Huawei. My guess is Rea funded it many years ago. It got a lot of business from Chinese government. So it grows and grows. This is completely feasible. Trying to tie it to Chinese government is purely politically motivated. 
    I posted links to the ownership analysis, which you have ignored. 


    No, I don't read Epochtimes, and even if I did, it isn't relevant to the conversation. I do know a lot about United Front, which is the CCP's and PLA's Chinese diaspora based worldwide influencing campaign, specifically to reunite Taiwan with Mainland China, but also attempting to buy politicians and influence political and economics in Western Countries, especially Canada, New Zealand, Britain and Australia, part of the Five Eyes.

    As far as I can tell, you are part of that, fairly or unfairly.

    Our conversation is over.
    I am not associated with any organization. I am just an avid news reader. It looks like you are associated with FAPA. Am I right? 
    Nope. 

    I am a U.S. citizen.

    I'm actually only interested in U.S. and our Pacific Allies national security. There has been a lot of Chinese interference in Canadian, New Zealand, and Australian governments, and all are reconsidering their status with China, politically and economically.



    edited May 2019 StrangeDays
  • Reply 74 of 81
    redhotfuzzredhotfuzz Posts: 313member
    Wow, an amazing level of Chinese apologetics/astroturfing going on here today.

    I know it's fun to point to Trump as the source of all U.S./China trade conflicts, but the pure fact of the matter is Chinese business has been a dishonest player for decades, publicly stated by U.S. presidents from both parties, the governments of other Western nations, and by economists across the globe. If you reject this indisputable fact, you're either incredibly naive/uninformed or are paid by the Chinese government to spread their propaganda.

    The message to China is incredibly simple: play in the free and open market by following the basic rules and principles and everyone will benefit.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    Wow, an amazing level of Chinese apologetics/astroturfing going on here today.

    I know it's fun to point to Trump as the source of all U.S./China trade conflicts, but the pure fact of the matter is Chinese business has been a dishonest player for decades, publicly stated by U.S. presidents from both parties, the governments of other Western nations, and by economists across the globe. If you reject this indisputable fact, you're either incredibly naive/uninformed or are paid by the Chinese government to spread their propaganda.

    The message to China is incredibly simple: play in the free and open market by following the basic rules and principles and everyone will benefit.

    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 76 of 81
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,480member
    Wow, an amazing level of Chinese apologetics/astroturfing going on here today.

    I know it's fun to point to Trump as the source of all U.S./China trade conflicts, but the pure fact of the matter is Chinese business has been a dishonest player for decades, publicly stated by U.S. presidents from both parties, the governments of other Western nations, and by economists across the globe. If you reject this indisputable fact, you're either incredibly naive/uninformed or are paid by the Chinese government to spread their propaganda.

    The message to China is incredibly simple: play in the free and open market by following the basic rules and principles and everyone will benefit.
    This 'national emergency' tactic surely cannot be considered a 'basic rule or principle'.

    Time to speculate wildly:

    Huawei releases Kirin OS, licences it to other Chinese vendors and offers it to Samsung.

    Care to imagine the situation five years from now for Google?
  • Reply 77 of 81
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Well, like Tzeshan, I was also arguing on semantics. Even ignoring that semantics part, I have a larger question. Why Huawei ALONE is being targeted? Are they the ONLY ONE who is accused of IP theft? What about Xiaomi, One Plus, Oppo, Vivo etc??? Do they ALL have clean hands??? If there is NO action against those companies, how would action against Huawei ALONE would help USA? is it because Huawei alone is having 5G capabilities, which other Chinese companies do NOT have?
    avon b7
  • Reply 78 of 81
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,480member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Well, like Tzeshan, I was also arguing on semantics. Even ignoring that semantics part, I have a larger question. Why Huawei ALONE is being targeted? Are they the ONLY ONE who is accused of IP theft? What about Xiaomi, One Plus, Oppo, Vivo etc??? Do they ALL have clean hands??? If there is NO action against those companies, how would action against Huawei ALONE would help USA? is it because Huawei alone is having 5G capabilities, which other Chinese companies do NOT have?
    Not only that (which is true, of course) but Trump wants to have his cake and eat it. There was no order demanding that US companies stop manufacturing in China for example. 

    This is pure protectionism but that was clear from the outset. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/10/trump-latest-in-long-line-of-protectionists-steering-us-trade-policy




    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 79 of 81
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    sirozha said:
    Huawei is China and China is Huawei. Read the story of Huawei. 

    The IP theft by all Chinese companies is well documented. Moreover, the Chinese government requires surrender of the IP to the Chinese “partners” by Western companies who want to do business in China. Add to that currency manipulation, Chinese government subsidies, etc. Finally, have you heard about the Chinese government requiring all of their graduate students to engage in the IP theft from Western universities where they participate in research as part of their graduate studies? It’s not even an option; it’s a requirement. The Chinese government withdraws its tuition payments of the graduate student comes home for summer without the “goodies, i.e. files of stolen IP. The Chinese government also requires that its nationals employed in the West engage in industrial espionage by applying pressure on the relatives who still live in China if a particular Chinese individual doesn’t send home stolen IP. 


    All of your statements are supported by factual information.

    Kudos

    Links to that effect are very easy to find. 
    His very first statement "Huawei is China and China is Huawei" is incorrect. If "China is Huawei" is a factual statement, then what are Xiaomi/BBK/Lenovo etc? They are USA?
    I'll provide links that indeed support the fact that Huawei is 1% owned by Ren, and 99% owned by a Chinese Worker Union, which leads to the Chinese Government.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3372669

    https://thechinacollection.org/huaweis-ownership-huaweis-statement-response/

    https://sayari.com/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/

    So essentially, Huawei is so opaque that there is no other assumption that could be made that is realistic other than 99% state ownership.

    You're welcome to provide alternate analysis and data.

    Bottom line, Huawei and China are one and the same.
    Well, like Tzeshan, I was also arguing on semantics. Even ignoring that semantics part, I have a larger question. Why Huawei ALONE is being targeted? Are they the ONLY ONE who is accused of IP theft? What about Xiaomi, One Plus, Oppo, Vivo etc??? Do they ALL have clean hands??? If there is NO action against those companies, how would action against Huawei ALONE would help USA? is it because Huawei alone is having 5G capabilities, which other Chinese companies do NOT have?
    Not only that (which is true, of course) but Trump wants to have his cake and eat it. There was no order demanding that US companies stop manufacturing in China for example. 

    This is pure protectionism but that was clear from the outset. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/10/trump-latest-in-long-line-of-protectionists-steering-us-trade-policy
    Agreed, that this seems to be pure protectionism, considering the future advancement of 5G technology and Huawei's capabilities in 5G. If China as a whole is a villain, action against Huawei ALONE does NOT make any sense to me, as a neutral person from a different country. And you were right about other countries asking for proof (https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/telecom/india-unlikely-to-ban-huaweis-5g-equipment/articleshow/67186519.cms), failing which they are ignoring the USA threat as well.
  • Reply 80 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,768member
    tmay said:
    Wow, an amazing level of Chinese apologetics/astroturfing going on here today.

    I know it's fun to point to Trump as the source of all U.S./China trade conflicts, but the pure fact of the matter is Chinese business has been a dishonest player for decades, publicly stated by U.S. presidents from both parties, the governments of other Western nations, and by economists across the globe. If you reject this indisputable fact, you're either incredibly naive/uninformed or are paid by the Chinese government to spread their propaganda.

    The message to China is incredibly simple: play in the free and open market by following the basic rules and principles and everyone will benefit.

    That their PR flunky tried to deny the store was an EXACT CLONE of an Apple store says it all. these people are intellectually honest. theyre dishonest.
    watto_cobra
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