Editorial: Reporting about the MacBook Pro is failing at a faster rate than the butterfly ...

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 71
    Dave KapDave Kap Posts: 42member
    The problem here is that people didn't like the feel of the new keyboards or the progression towards less and less responsiveness (something remedied a bit in the second butterfly iteration) and when there were reliability issues on top of that, and long delays for super expensive repairs, it was too easy to vilify the design of the keys and demand change. It didn't really matter how many there were. 
    This “people” likes the feel of the new keyboard.  So do the people I know that have MacBooks with the butterfly keyboard.
    tht
  • Reply 42 of 71
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 105member
    Not sure why this article is so long-winded.

    The facts are simple. 1. There clearly is a widespread problem with the butterfly keyboards. 2. It occurred because Apple prioritised thinness over functionality. 3. The lack of key travel makes them uncomfortable to type on (with almost zero tactile feel) and it impacts reliability. 4. This problem is not going away until Apple completely redesigns this keyboard. 

    Regarding the statistics, be cautious. Because sales of the new MacBooks are bolstered by the fact that users are locked into Apple’s operating system. They don’t have a choice - and so will put up with this terrible keyboard in order to remain with MacOS. 


    edited May 22 elijahgraybobigpics
  • Reply 43 of 71
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 876member
    Just a few bad Apples
  • Reply 44 of 71
    TC YoungTC Young Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    As a 30 year Apple fan and loyal customer, I have to disagree with this article. Both my 2015, 2016, and now 2017 Macbooks have exhibited problems with their keyboards, eventually requiring replacement. This is a first of *any* Apple computers I have used since the mid 1980s. I can't chalk that up to simple coincidence, nor do I consider it "normal" when it comes to wear & tear. I can only hope Apple eventually gets the design right.
    edited May 22 MplsPelijahg
  • Reply 45 of 71
    TC Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan and loyal customer, I have to disagree with this article. Both my 2015, 2016, and now 2017 Macbooks have exhibited problems with their keyboards, eventually requiring replacement. This is a first of *any* Apple computers I have used since the mid 1980s. I can't chalk that up to simple coincidence, nor do I consider it "normal" when it comes to wear & tear. I can only hope Apple eventually gets the design right.
    Your experience isn’t necessarily atypical; some users such as yourself have had trouble with both the scissor and the butterfly keyboards. Some people are just hard on keyboards, or unlucky.

    If the class action lawsuit over the butterfly keyboards goes anywhere, we might get some hard data on the actual failure rates. The butterfly keyboards are definitely more problematic than the scissor-type, but there are plenty in the Apple-hate crowd—with no actual experience with the new keyboard—who will insist that everyone is having problems, when that’s just not true. 


    fastasleeptyler82
  • Reply 46 of 71
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,148member
    henrybay said:
    Not sure why this article is so long-winded.

    The facts are simple. 1. There clearly is a widespread problem with the butterfly keyboards. 2. It occurred because Apple prioritised thinness over functionality. 3. The lack of key travel makes them uncomfortable to type on (with almost zero tactile feel) and it impacts reliability. 4. This problem is not going away until Apple completely redesigns this keyboard. 

    Regarding the statistics, be cautious. Because sales of the new MacBooks are bolstered by the fact that users are locked into Apple’s operating system. They don’t have a choice - and so will put up with this terrible keyboard in order to remain with MacOS. 


    Except there are laptops just as fun or thinner than the MacBook that don’t have these issues.
    ctt_zhelijahg
  • Reply 47 of 71
    All the same types of complaints that people level at the butterfly mechanism keyboards are replicated by PC laptops that don't use it. Simple internet searches prove it. None of the major PC brands for laptops provide any numbers on how often those types of duplicate keyboard failures occur either, similar to Apple. Considering those two facts, it's not all that convincing to treat butterfly failures as if they're somehow out of line with the rest of the industry. The keyboard is one of the most heavily used external pieces of hardware on any brand of laptop, so it makes sense that it could be one of the more common areas of repair in terms of percentages. Anecdotally, I've had more than one scissor keyboard fail for a desktop Mac, both at work and in home use.
    Speaking as a long-time Apple Genius (until very recently) I can say that when you go from seeing the occasional keyboard issue, to seeing multiple coming in every day,  there is a problem.
    ctt_zhhenrybay80s_Apple_Guybigtdstyler82elijahguniscaperaybostompybigpics
  • Reply 48 of 71
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 105member
    TC Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan and loyal customer, I have to disagree with this article. Both my 2015, 2016, and now 2017 Macbooks have exhibited problems with their keyboards, eventually requiring replacement. This is a first of *any* Apple computers I have used since the mid 1980s. I can't chalk that up to simple coincidence, nor do I consider it "normal" when it comes to wear & tear. I can only hope Apple eventually gets the design right.
    Ditto for me. I bought my first Mac in the mid 1980’s and have owned numerous versions since. Never once in all these years did I have trouble with any Mac or MacBook keyboard. They were also great to type on - with excellent tactile feel.

    But these latest keyboards feel like moving from a Steinway piano to a cheap Casio electronic version with plastic keys and no travel. Sure the new versions are light and thin - but they are completely soulless, unreliable and make a mockery of everything Apple has stood for. 
    80s_Apple_Guyelijahgbigpics
  • Reply 49 of 71
    pigybankpigybank Posts: 164member
    The new keyboards are objectively terrible.  Trying a “new thing” doesn’t justify it when the keyboards on the just prior generation were the best in the industry.  I haven’t upgraded my MB Air yet because of the wide adoption of these keyboards.  AI should try objectively reporting rather than being a cheerleader for Apple even when they do something objectively wrong. 
    henrybaybennettvistabigpics
  • Reply 50 of 71
    This article brings out some very valid criticism of the news media extreme bias. 

    However, IMO the reality is this keyboard we a change for no good reason  
    Incorrect. Go back and watch the event video where Schiller introduced it. There is a good reason, such as being able to depress the key cap from the any portion, especially on the edge, and have it depress. You may not care personally, but it's a good reason.
    So were there people complaining about the prior keyboard and it's "limited area of depression"? People had been using that for decades without an issue. Apple added a feature no one really asked for to try and justify their thinness quest and the resulting lower quality keyboard. 

    That's like saying we put a crappy engine in your car that overheats more frequently but the heat works great and much faster. 
    elijahgraybobigpics
  • Reply 51 of 71
    henrybay said:
    Not sure why this article is so long-winded.

    The facts are simple. 1. There clearly is a widespread problem with the butterfly keyboards. 2. It occurred because Apple prioritised thinness over functionality. 3. The lack of key travel makes them uncomfortable to type on (with almost zero tactile feel) and it impacts reliability. 4. This problem is not going away until Apple completely redesigns this keyboard. 

    Regarding the statistics, be cautious. Because sales of the new MacBooks are bolstered by the fact that users are locked into Apple’s operating system. They don’t have a choice - and so will put up with this terrible keyboard in order to remain with MacOS. 


    Except there are laptops just as fun or thinner than the MacBook that don’t have these issues.
    But those laptops have regular keyboards and ports. They're also usually somewhat upgradeable. How is it that they do it but Apple went with the options they chose?
  • Reply 52 of 71
    TC Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan and loyal customer, I have to disagree with this article. Both my 2015, 2016, and now 2017 Macbooks have exhibited problems with their keyboards, eventually requiring replacement. This is a first of *any* Apple computers I have used since the mid 1980s. I can't chalk that up to simple coincidence, nor do I consider it "normal" when it comes to wear & tear. I can only hope Apple eventually gets the design right.
    I'm not a fan of the new KB but I'm not here to talk about that. I'm curious about the post I quoted.

    This guy is a liar, obviously. The 2015 keyboard wasn't a butterfly. If he really owned those machines he'd be able to tell the difference. Also, he has a post count of 1. So, my conclusion is that he's a troll, either paid or not.

    What I'm curious about is: If he's paid, then who's paying him, and what benefit do they think they get? And if he's not, what could possibly prompt him to show up and waste his time?

    uniscape
  • Reply 53 of 71
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 108member
    TC Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan and loyal customer, I have to disagree with this article. Both my 2015, 2016, and now 2017 Macbooks have exhibited problems with their keyboards, eventually requiring replacement. This is a first of *any* Apple computers I have used since the mid 1980s. I can't chalk that up to simple coincidence, nor do I consider it "normal" when it comes to wear & tear. I can only hope Apple eventually gets the design right.
    I'm not a fan of the new KB but I'm not here to talk about that. I'm curious about the post I quoted.

    This guy is a liar, obviously. The 2015 keyboard wasn't a butterfly. If he really owned those machines he'd be able to tell the difference. Also, he has a post count of 1. So, my conclusion is that he's a troll, either paid or not.

    What I'm curious about is: If he's paid, then who's paying him, and what benefit do they think they get? And if he's not, what could possibly prompt him to show up and waste his time?

    Where in his post did he say that his 2015 was butterfly kb? Any keyboard can fail. Even the most reliable keyboards fail sometimes.
    elijahggatorguy
  • Reply 54 of 71
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 876member
    Why aren’t we complaining about the real travesty: taking away the startup sound!
    JWSCelijahg
  • Reply 55 of 71
    sfolaxsfolax Posts: 49member
    I laughed so hard reading this. I'm sure DED gets paid by the word hence everything is as long and windy as possible. lol.

    "MacBook users have clearly been inconvenienced by keyboard issues for those repair programs to exist, and AppleInsider has long maintained that Apple must address keyboard issues buyers have experienced, and continue to improve upon its polarizing keyboard design."
    So there is a keyboard problem?

    "Some publications even appear to have been working to create a mythology that recent MacBook keyboards were almost maliciously broken by design, with the only solution being an entirely new keyboard that magically never has any problems-- something they can claim Apple is withholding from its users due to some bizarre imagined mix of incompetence, sloth, and arrogance."
    What other laptops today have sticky keys? Or is this something magical that only Apple can do?

    "There isn't data showing the MacBook keyboard is "broken.""
    Besides the newly introduced keyboard program?

    Thanks again for the laughs DED! Please keep these articles coming!
    JustSomeGuy1henrybayMplsPelijahggatorguy
  • Reply 56 of 71
    Ugh.. I’ve been waiting to buy a new MacBookPro and was hoping the new model would have had an improved keyboard. I’ve tried the current model at Apple stores and it’s not pleasant to type on and hurts my fingers as the keys don’t travel. The design team should have consulted with writers before adopting this design.  I’m going to wait until next year now and hope my old MacBook Pro holds up.
    henrybaybigpics
  • Reply 57 of 71
    Ugh.. I’ve been waiting to buy a new MacBookPro and was hoping the new model would have had an improved keyboard. I’ve tried the current model at Apple stores and it’s not pleasant to type on and hurts my fingers as the keys don’t travel. The design team should have consulted with writers before adopting this design.  I’m going to wait until next year now and hope my old MacBook Pro holds up.
    If typing on the butterfly keyboard actually hurts your fingers, you’re likely striking the keys much too hard. Some people do “pound on the keyboard”, particularly those of us who learned on a manual typewriter.

    Many have found that they did need to adjust their typing technique somewhat, but that when they do they’re actually able to type faster and more accurately with the new keyboard.
    bennettvista
  • Reply 58 of 71
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 267member
    The keyboard is a miserable failure like the puck mouse. Apple needs to put it out to pasture.
    henrybaybigpics
  • Reply 59 of 71
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 105member
    Ugh.. I’ve been waiting to buy a new MacBookPro and was hoping the new model would have had an improved keyboard. I’ve tried the current model at Apple stores and it’s not pleasant to type on and hurts my fingers as the keys don’t travel. The design team should have consulted with writers before adopting this design.  I’m going to wait until next year now and hope my old MacBook Pro holds up.
    If typing on the butterfly keyboard actually hurts your fingers, you’re likely striking the keys much too hard. Some people do “pound on the keyboard”, particularly those of us who learned on a manual typewriter.

    Many have found that they did need to adjust their typing technique somewhat, but that when they do they’re actually able to type faster and more accurately with the new keyboard.
    Yep, you’re typing wrong. You have to adjust your typing style to suit the particular needs of the butterfly keyboard. This also means lowering your expectations of what a keyboard should feel like - forget decent key travel or niceties like reliability. Those ideas are so yesterday. What matters is that your MacPro is thin. And whatever you do, avoid typing on pre 2015 MacBooks or Lenovo X1s because the contrast in keyboard quality will make you weep. 
    bigpicsRideOnTime
  • Reply 60 of 71
    MisterKitMisterKit Posts: 269member
    I don’t envy Apple. It would be a PR nightmare if they said please don’t droll on your keyboard. Fortunately they have the bankroll to “eat” this one.
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