Editorial: Reporting about the MacBook Pro is failing at a faster rate than the butterfly ...

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  • Reply 61 of 71
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 105member
    What a pile of apologist crap.

    Right now I have a 10-year-old Apple Bluetooth keyboard (A1314) sitting on top of my top-of-the-line MBP's keyboard so I can actually work. The key travel from that era is exactly where Apple should have stopped.
    Totally agree with RealDavidGurney - well said Sir! May I also suggest that Apple provides a free blue tooth keyboard with every new MacBook - to sit atop the butterfly keyboard (as David Gurney does). This would help solve the problem. 
    bigpics
  • Reply 62 of 71
    russwrussw Posts: 15member
    1) [...]There's no shortage of people offering their options about whether Macs should be heavy and thick, but if ultralight MacBooks weren't making tons of money Apple wouldn't be selling them.

    2)[...]
    Unlike opinions, Apple's product plans are very data-driven.
    1) Were the 2015 sales numbers way below the 2016? If so, how do we know that was due to the size changes? Maybe people wanted to replace an aging laptop with something with more memory, SSD, faster CPU or just couldn't resist the Space Gray color. The 2015 is hardly "heavy and thick". The marginal change in weight and thickness surely wasn't driving any big increase in sales. I doubt anyone really knows the answer to that, even Apple with all its focus groups and marketing research. Still, would love to see what data is out there around what people prioritize for laptop purchases.

    2) I have no doubt Apple's product changes are data-driven. Maybe they removed the SD and HDMI slots because they were causing repair issues. That doesn't make it right for the consumer and it's not like Apple is given consumers a choice within the line (MacBook Pro, in this case). Sometimes a focus on the data you have makes you blind to issues that you don't have reliable data for (like peoples preferences for a thin laptop vs repairability vs cost).

    I love my 2018 and have adapted to the new keyboard. That said, I miss the HDMI, SD and USB-A ports which I used all the time in my 2013 MBP. Now I have a dongle that makes a mess on my desk. As others have noted, another wrong turn Apple made was to make it more difficult to replace/repair parts. I've upgraded the SSD in my 2012 MacBook Air and replaced the battery. Not going to happen on my 2018. Shame on you, Apple. Don't claim to be a green company with this sort of design choice. Probably another bean counter, data-driven decision Apple made. I bet it drives sales to higher end machines since you can't upgrade after the fact. Am I going to buy a laptop/desktop from some other company? Not likely. I see tremendous value in the Apple ecosystem I fully leverage so I'll buy what Apple puts out as long as I can make it work for me, as I have since 1985.
  • Reply 63 of 71
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,767member
    TC Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan and loyal customer, I have to disagree with this article. Both my 2015, 2016, and now 2017 Macbooks have exhibited problems with their keyboards, eventually requiring replacement. This is a first of *any* Apple computers I have used since the mid 1980s. I can't chalk that up to simple coincidence, nor do I consider it "normal" when it comes to wear & tear. I can only hope Apple eventually gets the design right.
    Your experience isn’t necessarily atypical; some users such as yourself have had trouble with both the scissor and the butterfly keyboards. Some people are just hard on keyboards, or unlucky.

    If the class action lawsuit over the butterfly keyboards goes anywhere, we might get some hard data on the actual failure rates. The butterfly keyboards are definitely more problematic than the scissor-type, but there are plenty in the Apple-hate crowd—with no actual experience with the new keyboard—who will insist that everyone is having problems, when that’s just not true. 


    You are the one wrong.   The butterfly keyboard was introduced with the newer, thinner MacBook in to 2015.    It was not added to the MBP until the 2016 MBP - which was why I bought a 2015 MBP and hope Apple eventually brings back the old keyboard on the pro at least.  Lots of good things about the current model, but I'll wait till finally a new design (finally) comes on with 10 nm intel chips from Intel.   Hopefully the re-design will give them a little bit of room to change the keyboard.
    henrybay
  • Reply 64 of 71
    javacowboyjavacowboy Posts: 818member
    The preference of typing on physical keys is changing however, along with the physicality of computers themselves. 
    Really?  So why are companies making custom mechanical keyboards, such as Ergodox EZ, doing so well nowadays?  Looking around my own office, admittedly populated with software devs, I see tons of mechanical keyboards.  People who spend all day typing demand tactile feedback.

    Yes, you could argue this is a niche market, or that those of us who prefer mechanical keyboards somehow pine for the glory days of Blackberry.  This is not true.  Texting or replying to emails on your phone is quite different from writing code, articles/blogs, or documentation all day.

    And, yes, I typed this on my 2016 MacBook Pro butterfly keyboard and did not enjoy the experience at all


    henrybayMetriacanthosaurus
  • Reply 65 of 71
    henrybayhenrybay Posts: 105member

    NEWS FLASH! The year is 2023 and Apple has released the 16th version of its Butterfly keyboard. 

    The company promises that ‘this time we really have fixed it, by incorporating a super-duper membrane made from tiny Amazonian butterflies, whose wings deflect any debris.’ 

    A relieved Jony Ive explained, ‘this is the breakthrough we’ve been striving towards. I would like to thank the Brazilian government for allowing us to harvest so many of these hard working butterflies.’

    Ive also announced that in response to overwhelming demand, the amount of key travel has been increased by 5 microns. Critics were quick to point out that 5 microns is only the width of a human blood cell, or one 20th the width of a human hair.’

    Ive dismissed these concerns by explaining ‘when you look at the new keyboard under a microscope – this looks like a big increase. And you’ll see this in our promotional videos. People love seeing up-close shots of our machines, and hearing how we measure things microns – it says Apple is all about precision.’

    Just in case the 16th version of the butterfly keyboard does turn out to have problems, Apple has extended its keyboard warranty both forward and backward – to cover all models from 2016 to 2030 and beyond.

     

     

  • Reply 66 of 71
     Today he's the Trump of product design, seeking only to destroy achievements of previous generations.
    Fucking LOL. It is literally insane how delusional you people are.
  • Reply 67 of 71
    The preference of typing on physical keys is changing however, along with the physicality of computers themselves. 
    Really?  So why are companies making custom mechanical keyboards, such as Ergodox EZ, doing so well nowadays?  Looking around my own office, admittedly populated with software devs, I see tons of mechanical keyboards.  People who spend all day typing demand tactile feedback.

    Yes, you could argue this is a niche market, or that those of us who prefer mechanical keyboards somehow pine for the glory days of Blackberry.  This is not true.  Texting or replying to emails on your phone is quite different from writing code, articles/blogs, or documentation all day.

    And, yes, I typed this on my 2016 MacBook Pro butterfly keyboard and did not enjoy the experience at all


    He's wrong. No preferences have changed anywhere. The situation with physical keyboards is one in the same as the situation with laptops/desktops themselves today. The only reason the market for them has shrunk is because there used to be millions of laptop users who had no other alternative. That was the way to use a "computer"...to write a document, to use the internet. The iPad and iPhone both have done their part to shrink that market, by replacing laptops for people who never needed them in the first place.

    The people who today need laptops and physical keyboards are the same people who have always needed them.
    javacowboy
  • Reply 68 of 71
    Apple's external keyboards they make right now are the best I've ever used. They're not skyscraper keys, but they feel much much better than the MacBook keys.
    henrybay
  • Reply 69 of 71
    javacowboyjavacowboy Posts: 818member
     ...Today he's the Trump of product design, seeking only to destroy achievements of previous generations.

    Even more embarrassing is Apple's continued, infantile thrashing instead of admitting its gross failure. It doesn't matter if they put condoms under every key or over the entire thing; if it works for 100 years, it will still suck, big-time.

     :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D  :D 
  • Reply 70 of 71
    henrybay said:
    Ugh.. I’ve been waiting to buy a new MacBookPro and was hoping the new model would have had an improved keyboard. I’ve tried the current model at Apple stores and it’s not pleasant to type on and hurts my fingers as the keys don’t travel. The design team should have consulted with writers before adopting this design.  I’m going to wait until next year now and hope my old MacBook Pro holds up.
    If typing on the butterfly keyboard actually hurts your fingers, you’re likely striking the keys much too hard. Some people do “pound on the keyboard”, particularly those of us who learned on a manual typewriter.

    Many have found that they did need to adjust their typing technique somewhat, but that when they do they’re actually able to type faster and more accurately with the new keyboard.
    Yep, you’re typing wrong. You have to adjust your typing style to suit the particular needs of the butterfly keyboard. This also means lowering your expectations of what a keyboard should feel like - forget decent key travel or niceties like reliability. Those ideas are so yesterday. What matters is that your MacPro is thin. And whatever you do, avoid typing on pre 2015 MacBooks or Lenovo X1s because the contrast in keyboard quality will make you weep. 
    Like I said, if typing on the butterfly keyboard actually hurts your fingers, you’re likely striking the keys much too hard. 

    If you want to argue that Apple should make a keyboard that lovingly cushions your fingertips no matter how hard one might bang on it, feel free. 
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