Proposed US Senate bill would hand $700M to rural telecoms to avoid Huawei & ZTE

Posted:
in General Discussion
A bipartisan group of U.S. senators have proposed a bill that would hand $700 million in grants to rural telecom providers to cover the cost of stripping Huawei and ZTE gear from their networks.

4G celltower


Those networks would also be blocked from using Huawei or ZTE equipment for 5G infrastructure, Reuters reported. The bill is being sponsored by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR), Sen. Mark Warner (D-VA), and Sen. Roger Wicker (R-MS). Warner is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee, while Wicker is chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee.

The proposed sum may not be enough to offset the expense of swapping out Huawei and ZTE gear. The Rural Wireless Association claims that while just 25% of its members might be affected, their costs could run between $800 million and $1 billion.

The Trump administration was been concerned about Huawei and ZTE's links with the Chinese government, arguing they could lead to backdoors into U.S. networks. State-backed hackers regularly probe U.S. companies and government agencies.

Along those lines the White House has not only blocked government agencies from doing business with the firms, but recently banned private companies from buying their telecoms equipment, and stopped Huawei from buying components from American sources. The latter restrictions were eased on Monday, but only temporarily.

ZTE was fined over $1 billion in March 2017 for violating sanctions on selling parts to Iran and North Korea. In April 2018, the Federal Communications Commission blocked ZTE's access to parts and software.

Huawei and the Chinese government been vocal in protesting recent actions, suggesting that the White House is wielding national security as a pretense for suppressing a major competitor to American companies in the context of a wider trade war. Indeed Huawei is the leading smartphone vendor in China, easily dwarfing not just Apple but local rivals like Oppo and Xiaomi.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 31
    mubailimubaili Posts: 399member
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    jbdragoncoolfactorhodar
  • Reply 2 of 31
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,172member
    I'm against this for sure. No need for the Government to hand over free money for company's to replace equipment. That's just flat out wrong. The Government is already trillions in debt, yet they can't help spending more money on things they shouldn't be.
    coolfactortoysandme
  • Reply 3 of 31
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,012member
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    Capitalism only works fairly when everyone follows the same fair rules. Chinese government has subsidized(and helped hack,steal,copy,etc) Huawei/ZTE to the point where they can undercut others to sell product cheaply,. That is one kind of unfair dumping to capture the market.
    We are no more companies compete against each other on there merits but Government getting involved to help them create edge in global market. So, be careful before having narrow focus on capitalism, competition brings lower prices for consumers. Yes, initially lower prices but in process you loose lots of jobs and economy of your country.
    edited May 23 tmayhodardysamoria
  • Reply 4 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,962member
    jbdragon said:
    I'm against this for sure. No need for the Government to hand over free money for company's to replace equipment. That's just flat out wrong. The Government is already trillions in debt, yet they can't help spending more money on things they shouldn't be.
    Since the U.S. is forcing those small rural carriers to replace existing Huawei equipment for National Security reasons, then it falls on the Federal government to fund it, which it appears will happen.

    Seems fair.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 5 of 31
    LordeHawkLordeHawk Posts: 168member
    Nothing unites a country like a common enemy...

    Side request Apple Insiders, can you please block web traffic from China?  I can’t speak for everyone, but their posts are obnoxious and fanatical.  We didn’t go to their forum, they came here, creating unproductive geopolitical discourse.

    The USA is far from perfect, but we all get a voice in the process.  We can speak our minds, share opinions, and join a movement, all without fear.  

    They don’t get to lecture us after passing on the greatest IP ever, freedom and Liberty.  
    edited May 23 coolfactor
  • Reply 6 of 31
    coolfactorcoolfactor Posts: 1,534member
    LordeHawk said:
    Nothing units a country like a common enemy...

    Works both ways. Just imagine the anger brewing in China among average citizens against the US....


    dysamoria
  • Reply 7 of 31
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,658member
    LordeHawk said:
    Nothing units a country like a common enemy...

    Works both ways. Just imagine the anger brewing in China among average citizens against the US....


    Yeah the Chinese media (government owned) is tell its citizen how China did nothing wrong and it all the US's fault and the US media is saying the same thing about the US government. Of course the Chinese Citizens would believe it since media never makes stuff up,
    JWSC
  • Reply 8 of 31
    crfcomcrfcom Posts: 14member
    LordeHawk said:
    Nothing units a country like a common enemy...

    Works both ways. Just imagine the anger brewing in China among average citizens against the US....


    Well, at least over here when the Trumpeter gets carried away, the media can feel free to say so and the general population gets to hear it and agree or disagree. The Chinese get angry when the nationalized press tells them they should. There's a little difference, don't you think?
    JWSC
  • Reply 9 of 31
    crfcomcrfcom Posts: 14member
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
  • Reply 10 of 31
    eideardeideard Posts: 399member
    wood1208 said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    Capitalism only works fairly when everyone follows the same fair rules. Chinese government has subsidized(and helped hack,steal,copy,etc) Huawei/ZTE to the point where they can undercut others to sell product cheaply,. That is one kind of unfair dumping to capture the market.
    We are no more companies compete against each other on there merits but Government getting involved to help them create edge in global market. So, be careful before having narrow focus on capitalism, competition brings lower prices for consumers. Yes, initially lower prices but in process you loose lots of jobs and economy of your country.

    Your knowledge of economics isn't even up to the 1930s. Problematic or not, capitalist economics - like all processes involving society - changes or dies - evolves over time.
  • Reply 11 of 31
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,154member
    crfcom said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
    LOL... So how free is the enterprise when the world's top 5G innovator is blocked from the markets on some fake, Trumped up "National Security Emergency" edict in a false hope that protectionism will protect our status as the world's largest economy?

    So, while American families will now be paying an extra almost $900 a year for the so called protection, our government wants to hand out free money to rural areas.   Mostly red zones.  But where is it coming from since we already can't pay our bills?   Maybe China will lend us some more?   Please Mr Xi?
  • Reply 12 of 31
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,594member
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    Actually we're a mix of many different ideologies and policies. 

    Myself, I'm not big on letting an oppressive, murderous, single-party, authoritarian regime manager the world's communications equipment. And since this company is "effectively an arm of the Chinese state" the decision seems pretty prudent. I'm no fan of our crappy president, but I have no reason to doubt the six US intelligence agencies who briefed the Senate security committee. These are the same agencies that said Russia interfered in our election to benefit Trump, and I believed them then. Not believing them now would be intellectually dishonest. (something our communist apologists excel at, lol)
    edited May 23 JWSC
  • Reply 13 of 31
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,285member
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    I don’t know why you think this is a “let capitalism do its thing” scenario. Do you think these companies will just willingly stop buying the absolute cheapest parts just because of the questionable motives of the manufacturers selling them at bargain basement prices? Hell no. They’re not going to dip into their profits to buy better-sourced parts. Capitalism is what demands that they seek the most profit by buying the cheapest parts, regardless of the bigger picture.

    Who do you think is promoting this compensation to the telecoms? The telecom lobbyists and their paid-for politicians. It’s not like the telecoms cannot afford to pay for the changes themselves. Well, their top shareholders and executives could afford it, but they’re not going to let go of any of their insane pay to cover operational expenses. So they're going to call on handouts from the very same entities who just caused them a huge expense. The paranoid government officials, and the paranoid corporatists who never have enough profit and who expect perpetual growth and shareholder value, are largely one and the same: shortsighted game-players (only our society is their game and many of us don’t appreciate that).

    As with most things in this administration, it’s really a self-inflicted injury from the top. Take a short-sighted action, then enact bandaids to fix the problem created by that action, compounding the problem. These people are not just lacking practical experience; they don’t even understand much of the theory, and certainly not to any depth.

    Welfare for humans struggling in this awful system? No way. Can’t have that. Corporate welfare bailing out banks (and automotive companies, and telecoms, and etc) that intentionally drove the system toward failure? Oh that’s a must. “Too big to fail”, right?

    More like “too big to not fail”.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 14 of 31
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,285member
    maestro64 said:
    LordeHawk said:
    Nothing units a country like a common enemy...

    Works both ways. Just imagine the anger brewing in China among average citizens against the US....


    Yeah the Chinese media (government owned) is tell its citizen how China did nothing wrong and it all the US's fault and the US media is saying the same thing about the US government. Of course the Chinese Citizens would believe it since media never makes stuff up,
    Well, the USA is hardly trying to maintain friendships right now, let alone make new ones. Do you willingly and unbegrudgingly separate your recyclables? No? You’re part of the problem.

    Don’t worry, I know the waste industry is the REAL problem there, but American culture around recycling and material usage (and waste management) is utterly shameful. The people act like it’s some kind of infringement on their freedom when they’re told not to waste things and told to separate reusable materials. Lazy and repugnant. That’s our CULTURE.

    China won’t take our waste materials anymore because America SUCKS at recycling. We did that to ourselves. The companies here have found it more profitable to cheat on recycling (single-stream collection is a disaster, burning is cheap and makes profit via abusive contracts between incinerator builders and local government), and our governance over this stuff has been utterly absent. The state DEP is merely a department of emissions permitting, not environmental protection.

    Laissez-faire capitalism is what people demanded, and abuse and systemic decay is what they get as a result. But the 1% are doing better than ever.
  • Reply 15 of 31
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 703member
    Corporate welfare, anyone?
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 16 of 31
    bellsbells Posts: 131member
    crfcom said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
    LOL... So how free is the enterprise when the world's top 5G innovator is blocked from the markets on some fake, Trumped up "National Security Emergency" edict in a false hope that protectionism will protect our status as the world's largest economy?

    So, while American families will now be paying an extra almost $900 a year for the so called protection, our government wants to hand out free money to rural areas.   Mostly red zones.  But where is it coming from since we already can't pay our bills?   Maybe China will lend us some more?   Please Mr Xi?
    Top Innovator? Please. Huawei is a huge thief. Their CEO goes on Stage dressed like Steve Jobs showing off phones that look exactly like iPhones. They actively seek out stolen information from competitors. They are huge crooks. 

    I tend to vote Democrat, but China's lack of respect for American Intellectual Property has to be curtailed. It hurts American interests when a competitor is allowed to steal their expensive IP and sell substantially similar products for significantly less because they don't have to pay for research. 

    Further, a "free" american market doesn't need to include foreign competitors playing by different rules. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 17 of 31
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,219member
    bells said:
    crfcom said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
    LOL... So how free is the enterprise when the world's top 5G innovator is blocked from the markets on some fake, Trumped up "National Security Emergency" edict in a false hope that protectionism will protect our status as the world's largest economy?

    So, while American families will now be paying an extra almost $900 a year for the so called protection, our government wants to hand out free money to rural areas.   Mostly red zones.  But where is it coming from since we already can't pay our bills?   Maybe China will lend us some more?   Please Mr Xi?
    Top Innovator? Please. Huawei is a huge thief. Their CEO goes on Stage dressed like Steve Jobs showing off phones that look exactly like iPhones. They actively seek out stolen information from competitors. They are huge crooks. 

    I tend to vote Democrat, but China's lack of respect for American Intellectual Property has to be curtailed. It hurts American interests when a competitor is allowed to steal their expensive IP and sell substantially similar products for significantly less because they don't have to pay for research. 

    Further, a "free" american market doesn't need to include foreign competitors playing by different rules. 
    Top innovator on 5G?

    I'd say that is demonstrably the case. What makes you think it isn't?

    Nothing you wrote actually stands up to much scrutiny.

    Huawei filed for more WIPO patents than any other company on the planet in 2018.

    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2018/article_0002.html

    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2019/article_0004.html

    It is in the top five R&D investors worldwide and reportedly licences a huge amount of its patents to Apple.

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201904/09/WS5cac0859a3104842260b5265.html

    https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/apple-to-pay-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-in-patent-royalties-to-huawei-every-year


    edited May 23 GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 18 of 31
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,962member
    avon b7 said:
    bells said:
    crfcom said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
    LOL... So how free is the enterprise when the world's top 5G innovator is blocked from the markets on some fake, Trumped up "National Security Emergency" edict in a false hope that protectionism will protect our status as the world's largest economy?

    So, while American families will now be paying an extra almost $900 a year for the so called protection, our government wants to hand out free money to rural areas.   Mostly red zones.  But where is it coming from since we already can't pay our bills?   Maybe China will lend us some more?   Please Mr Xi?
    Top Innovator? Please. Huawei is a huge thief. Their CEO goes on Stage dressed like Steve Jobs showing off phones that look exactly like iPhones. They actively seek out stolen information from competitors. They are huge crooks. 

    I tend to vote Democrat, but China's lack of respect for American Intellectual Property has to be curtailed. It hurts American interests when a competitor is allowed to steal their expensive IP and sell substantially similar products for significantly less because they don't have to pay for research. 

    Further, a "free" american market doesn't need to include foreign competitors playing by different rules. 
    Top innovator on 5G?

    I'd say that is demonstrably the case. What makes you think it isn't?

    Nothing you wrote actually stands up to much scrutiny.

    Huawei filed for more WIPO patents than any other company on the planet in 2018.

    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2018/article_0002.html

    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2019/article_0004.html

    It is in the top five R&D investors worldwide and reportedly licences a huge amount of its patents to Apple.

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201904/09/WS5cac0859a3104842260b5265.html

    https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/apple-to-pay-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-in-patent-royalties-to-huawei-every-year


    I'm always impressed with your inability to understand a complex issue. It isn't only about technology, and in this case, it is about National Security, Economics, Trade, Politics, and, even Human Rights.

    Here's a link;

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/how-huawei-became-a-u-s-government-target-quicktake

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/opinion/china-trump-trade.html#commentsContainer

    "A U.S. businessman friend of mine who works in China remarked to me recently that Donald Trump is not the American president America deserves, but he sure is the American president China deserves."

    Amen, brother.


    edited May 23
  • Reply 19 of 31
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,154member
    bells said:
    crfcom said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
    LOL... So how free is the enterprise when the world's top 5G innovator is blocked from the markets on some fake, Trumped up "National Security Emergency" edict in a false hope that protectionism will protect our status as the world's largest economy?

    So, while American families will now be paying an extra almost $900 a year for the so called protection, our government wants to hand out free money to rural areas.   Mostly red zones.  But where is it coming from since we already can't pay our bills?   Maybe China will lend us some more?   Please Mr Xi?
    Top Innovator? Please. Huawei is a huge thief. Their CEO goes on Stage dressed like Steve Jobs showing off phones that look exactly like iPhones. They actively seek out stolen information from competitors. They are huge crooks. 

    I tend to vote Democrat, but China's lack of respect for American Intellectual Property has to be curtailed. It hurts American interests when a competitor is allowed to steal their expensive IP and sell substantially similar products for significantly less because they don't have to pay for research. 

    Further, a "free" american market doesn't need to include foreign competitors playing by different rules. 
    We said all that about Japan back in the 70's & 80's -- just before their superior technology, management techniques and workforce crushed our steel, auto and electronics industries...

    It's mostly based on false pride rather than fact.
  • Reply 20 of 31
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 5,154member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    bells said:
    crfcom said:
    mubaili said:
    this is just beyond dumb. let the capitalism work. we are a capitalism society, aren't we?
    No, we are a republic which employs a free enterprise business model. It's worth noting that the bill proposing all this is bi-partisan, so the executive branch and both parties in the Congress are promoting this measure in an unusually united way.
    LOL... So how free is the enterprise when the world's top 5G innovator is blocked from the markets on some fake, Trumped up "National Security Emergency" edict in a false hope that protectionism will protect our status as the world's largest economy?

    So, while American families will now be paying an extra almost $900 a year for the so called protection, our government wants to hand out free money to rural areas.   Mostly red zones.  But where is it coming from since we already can't pay our bills?   Maybe China will lend us some more?   Please Mr Xi?
    Top Innovator? Please. Huawei is a huge thief. Their CEO goes on Stage dressed like Steve Jobs showing off phones that look exactly like iPhones. They actively seek out stolen information from competitors. They are huge crooks. 

    I tend to vote Democrat, but China's lack of respect for American Intellectual Property has to be curtailed. It hurts American interests when a competitor is allowed to steal their expensive IP and sell substantially similar products for significantly less because they don't have to pay for research. 

    Further, a "free" american market doesn't need to include foreign competitors playing by different rules. 
    Top innovator on 5G?

    I'd say that is demonstrably the case. What makes you think it isn't?

    Nothing you wrote actually stands up to much scrutiny.

    Huawei filed for more WIPO patents than any other company on the planet in 2018.

    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2018/article_0002.html

    https://www.wipo.int/pressroom/en/articles/2019/article_0004.html

    It is in the top five R&D investors worldwide and reportedly licences a huge amount of its patents to Apple.

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201904/09/WS5cac0859a3104842260b5265.html

    https://www.yicaiglobal.com/news/apple-to-pay-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-in-patent-royalties-to-huawei-every-year


    I'm always impressed with your inability to understand a complex issue. It isn't only about technology, and in this case, it is about National Security, Economics, Trade, Politics, and, even Human Rights.

    Here's a link;

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/how-huawei-became-a-u-s-government-target-quicktake

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/21/opinion/china-trump-trade.html#commentsContainer

    "A U.S. businessman friend of mine who works in China remarked to me recently that Donald Trump is not the American president America deserves, but he sure is the American president China deserves."

    Amen, brother.


    Ahhh!  So even the die hard Huawei haters are shifting to the protectionist argument!  
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