I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
A very recent event from two months ago, published March 31, 2019. Keep up the good work you do your job well.
So, Apple does no longer provide iCloud services in China as we know it. All its role seems to be reduced to providing OS support to the Chinese iCloud on its devices. You still need to explain how you correlate that business model change with suggested British evasive maneuver over encryption...
It was UPDATED two months ago with a few wording changes. The declaration itself was from at least last fall and something I'd posted months ago.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
A very recent event from two months ago, published March 31, 2019. Keep up the good work you do your job well.
So, Apple does no longer provide iCloud services in China as we know it. All its role seems to be reduced to providing OS support to the Chinese iCloud on its devices. You still need to explain how you correlate that business model change with suggested British evasive maneuver over encryption...
It was UPDATED two months ago with a few wording changes. The declaration itself was from at least last fall and something I'd posted months ago.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
A very recent event from two months ago, published March 31, 2019. Keep up the good work you do your job well.
So, Apple does no longer provide iCloud services in China as we know it. All its role seems to be reduced to providing OS support to the Chinese iCloud on its devices. You still need to explain how you correlate that business model change with suggested British evasive maneuver over encryption...
It was UPDATED two months ago with a few wording changes. The declaration itself was from at least last fall and something I'd posted months ago.
It doesn’t say “Updated” it says “Published”.
I don't care how you're interpreting "Published". The fact remains this was first "Published" months ago if not earlier. It's not something that developed in the past two months. I've posted links to it in the past, and I believe more than once.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
I have a question to you. If I lost my iCloud password, Apple can help me reset password and access iCloud data?
No idea. Perhaps they pass the request on to GCBD. Perhaps Apple does it for you as they are obligated to assist GCBD as needed. Why don't you tell the rest of us how it happens so we don't guess?
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
Man, who pays you to drop such copious amounts of FUD pellets on everything Apple? What do you get out suggesting such nonsense?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands
Yours is a very bold claim: iCloud run and monitored by Chinese agency ! Any link for that? All the Chinese wanted from Apple was keeping the servers in mainland China...
Do long-time AI members here even bother with research anymore? It is no longer Apple iCloud in China. The new service is called "iCloud operated by GCBD" and any user agreements are between them and AIPO CLOUD (GUIZHOU) TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD. Apple no longer has control nor offers any privacy guarantees to the user themselves, for the obvious reason it's not their service even if it is their device with the service built in.
"iCloud services in China mainland are now operated by Chinese internet services company Guizhou on the Cloud Big Data Industrial Development Co., Ltd., (GCBD). This allows us to continue to improve iCloud services in China mainland and comply with Chinese regulations.
I have a question to you. If I lost my iCloud password, Apple can help me reset password and access iCloud data?
No idea.
You have no knowledge of how iCloud. Why you have such courage of criticizing Apple handling over iCloud in China?
Where did I criticize Apple in this thread? Oh that's right, I didn't. Nice try at deflection.
Surely you aren't denying facts disclosed by Apple themselves despite me being the one mentioning the relatively old news here. Silly to ignore the message and try shooting the messenger instead.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
I don't see how it would "leak" on the black market as there's no backdoor modification to any of Apple encrypted messaging service, nor are the Brits asking for one. They simply want Google and Apple and the rest to be legally required to add GCHQ as another recipient of the target's still encrypted message. Apple who whoever would still be the company responsible for actually doing it if I read this correctly. Certainly not something I would advocate for, but still far better than a weakened encryption service.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia. At least in China it is no longer Apple iCloud nor an Apple-controlled service, rebadged as GCBD iCloud and run by the Chinese. Simply inserting themselves as an additional recipient of still-encrypted iMessages would be the so-simple fix. Russia may bve in the process of doing something similar.
You used the word cow-tow here. This is not a nice word. And you deny you are criticizing China and Apple? How contradictory to yourself!
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account. They'll comply with the law just as they do everywhere else they do business and they can't turn over what they don't have.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency to operate, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands.
Not what I asked. You're moving the goalposts. What you said: "In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries"
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There is no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
I don't see how it would "leak" on the black market as there's no backdoor modification to any of Apple encrypted messaging service, nor are the Brits asking for one. They simply want Google and Apple and the rest to be legally required to add GCHQ as another recipient of the target's still encrypted message. Apple who whoever would still be the company responsible for actually doing it if I read this correctly. Certainly not something I would advocate for, but still far better than a weakened encryption service.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia. At least in China it is no longer Apple iCloud nor an Apple-controlled service, rebadged as GCBD iCloud and run by the Chinese. Simply inserting themselves as an additional recipient of still-encrypted iMessages would be the so-simple fix. Russia may bve in the process of doing something similar.
You used the word cow-tow here. This is not a nice word. And you deny you are criticizing China and Apple? How contradictory to yourself!
Ah, you are correct, that is not a nice word. Good thing I didn't accuse Apple. These other services were instructed to turn over encryption keys which Apple obviously would not do on their own. The Chinese did an end around to accomplish much the same result.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account. They'll comply with the law just as they do everywhere else they do business and they can't turn over what they don't have.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency to operate, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands.
Not what I asked. You're moving the goalposts. What you said: "In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries"
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There are no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
Nope not saying it has already happened or even will. IMO we've already established you sometimes don't read very carefully or at worst choose to re-frame actual statements others make into something more palatable for you to argue with.
Since I'm wondering and you apparently have evidence there's nothing to wonder about how would you explain that the secure and end-to-end encrypted Signal and Telegram have been banned from operating there while the equally secure and encrypted end-to-end iMessage is just fine, or did it just never occur to you?
I agree with you that it was wise on your part to avoid including any mention of China.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
I don't see how it would "leak" on the black market as there's no backdoor modification to any of Apple encrypted messaging service, nor are the Brits asking for one. They simply want Google and Apple and the rest to be legally required to add GCHQ as another recipient of the target's still encrypted message. Apple who whoever would still be the company responsible for actually doing it if I read this correctly. Certainly not something I would advocate for, but still far better than a weakened encryption service.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia. At least in China it is no longer Apple iCloud nor an Apple-controlled service, rebadged as GCBD iCloud and run by the Chinese. Simply inserting themselves as an additional recipient of still-encrypted iMessages would be the so-simple fix. Russia may bve in the process of doing something similar.
You used the word cow-tow here. This is not a nice word. And you deny you are criticizing China and Apple? How contradictory to yourself!
Ah, you are correct, that is not a nice word. Good thing I didn't accuse Apple. These other services were instructed to turn over encryption keys which Apple obviously would not do on their own. The Chinese did an end around to accomplish much the same result.
You are still contradicting yourself. You said Apple cow-tow to China. If your logic is not so poor you should know you are accusing Apple. You put Apple and China in a sentence with demeaning word. Your intent of accusing Apple is very clear.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
I don't see how it would "leak" on the black market as there's no backdoor modification to any of Apple encrypted messaging service, nor are the Brits asking for one. They simply want Google and Apple and the rest to be legally required to add GCHQ as another recipient of the target's still encrypted message. Apple who whoever would still be the company responsible for actually doing it if I read this correctly. Certainly not something I would advocate for, but still far better than a weakened encryption service.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia. At least in China it is no longer Apple iCloud nor an Apple-controlled service, rebadged as GCBD iCloud and run by the Chinese. Simply inserting themselves as an additional recipient of still-encrypted iMessages would be the so-simple fix. Russia may bve in the process of doing something similar.
You used the word cow-tow here. This is not a nice word. And you deny you are criticizing China and Apple? How contradictory to yourself!
Ah, you are correct, that is not a nice word. Good thing I didn't accuse Apple. These other services were instructed to turn over encryption keys which Apple obviously would not do on their own. The Chinese did an end around to accomplish much the same result.
You are still contradicting yourself. You said Apple cow-tow to China. If your logic is not so poor you should know you are accusing Apple. You put Apple and China in a sentence with demeaning word. Your intent of accusing Apple is very clear.
English is not your first language so you can be forgiven for mixing words. What you imagine was said wasn't. Read it again more slowly. Apple isn't sharing iCloud user data in China. It's GCBD's data to secure and share on an as-needed basis. Apple still has clean hands as far as I can tell.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account. They'll comply with the law just as they do everywhere else they do business and they can't turn over what they don't have.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency to operate, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands.
Not what I asked. You're moving the goalposts. What you said: "In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries"
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There are no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
Since I'm wondering and you apparently have evidence there's nothing to wonder about how would you explain that the secure and end-to-end encrypted Signal and Telegram have been banned from operating there while the equally secure and encrypted end-to-end iMessage is just fine, or did it just never occur to you?
Is there any way to disprove you? Because your claim “Signal and Telegram are banned in Russia while iMessage is not. ERGO Apple is delivering customer data to Russian state” is a so much unfalsifiable assertion that it defeats every attempt of reasoning.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
I don't see how it would "leak" on the black market as there's no backdoor modification to any of Apple encrypted messaging service, nor are the Brits asking for one. They simply want Google and Apple and the rest to be legally required to add GCHQ as another recipient of the target's still encrypted message. Apple who whoever would still be the company responsible for actually doing it if I read this correctly. Certainly not something I would advocate for, but still far better than a weakened encryption service.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia. At least in China it is no longer Apple iCloud nor an Apple-controlled service, rebadged as GCBD iCloud and run by the Chinese. Simply inserting themselves as an additional recipient of still-encrypted iMessages would be the so-simple fix. Russia may bve in the process of doing something similar.
You used the word cow-tow here. This is not a nice word. And you deny you are criticizing China and Apple? How contradictory to yourself!
Ah, you are correct, that is not a nice word. Good thing I didn't accuse Apple. These other services were instructed to turn over encryption keys which Apple obviously would not do on their own. The Chinese did an end around to accomplish much the same result.
You are still contradicting yourself. You said Apple cow-tow to China. If your logic is not so poor you should know you are accusing Apple. You put Apple and China in a sentence with demeaning word. Your intent of accusing Apple is very clear.
English is not your first language so you can be forgiven for mixing words. What you imagine was said wasn't. Read it again more slowly. Apple isn't sharing iCloud user data in China. It's GCBD's data to secure and share on an as-needed basis. Apple still has clean hands as far as I can tell.
My English may not be as good as you. My logic is much better than you. And my English reading skill is better than you too. I did not mix words. It is you that said Apple cow-tow to China. Not me.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account. They'll comply with the law just as they do everywhere else they do business and they can't turn over what they don't have.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency to operate, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands.
Not what I asked. You're moving the goalposts. What you said: "In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries"
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There are no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
Since I'm wondering and you apparently have evidence there's nothing to wonder about how would you explain that the secure and end-to-end encrypted Signal and Telegram have been banned from operating there while the equally secure and encrypted end-to-end iMessage is just fine, or did it just never occur to you?
Is there any way to disprove you? Because your claim “Signal and Telegram are banned in Russia while iMessage not. ERGO Apple is delivering customer data to Russian state” is a so much unfalsifiable assertion that it defeats every attempt of reasoning.
I'm not claiming any fact about Russia and iMessage. I'm wondering about what I see as an oddity. How would YOU explain it? Maybe Russia just hasn't gotten around to iMessage yet and their turn is coming? Certainly another possibility that neither of can prove/disprove either. Thus wondering....
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
I don't see how it would "leak" on the black market as there's no backdoor modification to any of Apple encrypted messaging service, nor are the Brits asking for one. They simply want Google and Apple and the rest to be legally required to add GCHQ as another recipient of the target's still encrypted message. Apple who whoever would still be the company responsible for actually doing it if I read this correctly. Certainly not something I would advocate for, but still far better than a weakened encryption service.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia. At least in China it is no longer Apple iCloud nor an Apple-controlled service, rebadged as GCBD iCloud and run by the Chinese. Simply inserting themselves as an additional recipient of still-encrypted iMessages would be the so-simple fix. Russia may bve in the process of doing something similar.
You used the word cow-tow here. This is not a nice word. And you deny you are criticizing China and Apple? How contradictory to yourself!
Ah, you are correct, that is not a nice word. Good thing I didn't accuse Apple. These other services were instructed to turn over encryption keys which Apple obviously would not do on their own. The Chinese did an end around to accomplish much the same result.
You are still contradicting yourself. You said Apple cow-tow to China. If your logic is not so poor you should know you are accusing Apple. You put Apple and China in a sentence with demeaning word. Your intent of accusing Apple is very clear.
English is not your first language so you can be forgiven for mixing words. What you imagine was said wasn't. Read it again more slowly. Apple isn't sharing iCloud user data in China. It's GCBD's data to secure and share on an as-needed basis. Apple still has clean hands as far as I can tell.
My English may not be as good as you. My logic is much better than you. And my English reading skill is better than you too. I did not mix words. It is you that said Apple cow-tow to China. Not me.
None of those I mentioned cow-towed to China. "It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia."
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account. They'll comply with the law just as they do everywhere else they do business and they can't turn over what they don't have.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency to operate, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands.
Not what I asked. You're moving the goalposts. What you said: "In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries"
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There are no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
Since I'm wondering and you apparently have evidence there's nothing to wonder about how would you explain that the secure and end-to-end encrypted Signal and Telegram have been banned from operating there while the equally secure and encrypted end-to-end iMessage is just fine, or did it just never occur to you?
Is there any way to disprove you? Because your claim “Signal and Telegram are banned in Russia while iMessage not. ERGO Apple is delivering customer data to Russian state” is a so much unfalsifiable assertion that it defeats every attempt of reasoning.
I'm not claiming any fact about Russia and iMessage. I'm wondering about what I see as an oddity. How would YOU explain it? Maybe Russia just hasn't gotten around to iMessage yet and their turn is coming? Certainly another possibility that neither of can prove/disprove either. Thus wondering....
Start by investigating why Signal and Telegram are banned then. Neither are truly anonymous communication tools, both are bound to phone numbers, i.e. collect phone data.
I am sure this key would ‘leak’ on the black market just like how CIA’s or NSA’s malware is being to damage American cities.
In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries. It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia.
Are you honestly suggesting Apple has given Russia access to everyone's encrypted iMessages, and not told anyone? Is that honestly what you're suggesting?
If Apple still runs the Russia service once the changeover is in full effect then no I don't think Apple would turn over any messages that were not already existing in the users Cloud account. They'll comply with the law just as they do everywhere else they do business and they can't turn over what they don't have.
BUT If they do as they did in China and turn it all over to a Russian agency to operate, no longer even branded as an Apple service, then of course it would not be Apple making the choices. Clean hands.
Not what I asked. You're moving the goalposts. What you said: "In fact I'm wondering if this is already in play in a couple of other countries"
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There are no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
Since I'm wondering and you apparently have evidence there's nothing to wonder about how would you explain that the secure and end-to-end encrypted Signal and Telegram have been banned from operating there while the equally secure and encrypted end-to-end iMessage is just fine, or did it just never occur to you?
Is there any way to disprove you? Because your claim “Signal and Telegram are banned in Russia while iMessage not. ERGO Apple is delivering customer data to Russian state” is a so much unfalsifiable assertion that it defeats every attempt of reasoning.
I'm not claiming any fact about Russia and iMessage. I'm wondering about what I see as an oddity. How would YOU explain it? Maybe Russia just hasn't gotten around to iMessage yet and their turn is coming? Certainly another possibility that neither of can prove/disprove either. Thus wondering....
Start by investigating why Signal and Telegram are banned then.
I already did, long before you mentioned it. It has nothing to do with Russia being worried that users phone numbers and personal identification were being connected. If that were the case it seems more likely Russia would welcome it as a way of identifying potential "enemies of the state". That's actually mandated by Russia. See this from last fall: http://tass.com/politics/1029402
Seems more likely you're making something up just to be dismissive. Why bother if you don't want discuss more honestly? Just drop out of the conversation.
Comments
EDIT: Even longer ago than I guessed. This is from January 10th of 2018. You might even want to compare the current version with the original and see what if anything changed to prompt the new publishing date.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180110200000/https://www.apple.com/legal/internet-services/icloud/en/gcbd-terms.html
Surely you aren't denying facts disclosed by Apple themselves despite me being the one mentioning the relatively old news here. Silly to ignore the message and try shooting the messenger instead.
So again -- are you honestly suggesting Apple has already handed over iMessage to Russia without telling anyone? FUD, FUD, FUD. All the little FUD pellets you leave behind you...
There is no secret data sharing of encrypted iMessages with governments. The only thing close to it is China's operation of the iCloud servers. Anything else you're suggested may already be in place is simply bullshit.
Since I'm wondering and you apparently have evidence there's nothing to wonder about how would you explain that the secure and end-to-end encrypted Signal and Telegram have been banned from operating there while the equally secure and encrypted end-to-end iMessage is just fine, or did it just never occur to you?
I agree with you that it was wise on your part to avoid including any mention of China.
Apple isn't sharing iCloud user data in China. It's GCBD's data to secure and share on an as-needed basis. Apple still has clean hands as far as I can tell.
"It would explain how Apple iMessage has escaped the same fate of the other encrypted messaging services who have refused to cow-tow in China and Russia."
http://tass.com/politics/1029402
Seems more likely you're making something up just to be dismissive. Why bother if you don't want discuss more honestly? Just drop out of the conversation.
Here's the actual reason:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/13/moscow-court-bans-telegram-messaging-app
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram/russia-tries-more-precise-technology-to-block-telegram-messenger-idUSKCN1LF1ZZ